PvP does NOT have to mean combat.

[Mactavendish]

I fondly remember playing a game called Horizons.

It was a PVE game, fantasy setting, where all players could master all skills and crafts.

You may think this would get boring fast, but in actuality it lead to very creative ways of doing PvP even though the game did not allow players to even bump into eachother much less strike them with a weapon.

There was the typical train mobs onto your enemy, and the ever popular steal a mobs or steal a resources a player was gathering. But that is mere childsplay.

Where you could do real player vs. player was in competing to finish a world building project before another team could, to add to your personal fame. Since the projects would stay in the world from that time on it was a long term monument to actions YOU took.

There was also the aspect of cornering a market in some crafted item. Someone would be seeling easy to make items at an inflated price, You could them work together with others and flood the market with lower priced items and watch as the first seller depleted his funds buying your cheaper items and re-listing them at higher prices, until he just could not do it anymore and you would continue flooding and finally establish a newer more reasonable price that folks woul dbuy and soon all the other high priced items would disappear.

Then there was the truly gratifying times when a group of macroers would be attempting to farm mobs for some special resource or loot, and because you were much more powerful and faster keep them from getting the mobs by just tagging them all first.

These are forms of pvp that were considered valid in the game Horizons, since you could not directly interact with other players directly. Xsyon has direct interactions between players, so much of what was seen in Horizons as pvp, would be considered griefing here.

( added for clarity : I am not proposing that ANYONE grief another player for any reason. All I am doing here is showing how others found ways to interact with other players in a PVE game that had no direct way to interact or pvp. In Xsyon we have pvp, and the ability to interact directly with players. Grief as it stand is the act of interfering with a players ability to enjoy the game. Examples in Xsyon could include, Verbal abuse that is racist, sexual, or hostile to a players person, removing all trees in an area to prevent players from enjoying crafting or building, paving over junk piles to prevent gathering needed resources. I and My tribe are TOTALLY against such tactics, and will never do such things. Our tribe members are not allowed to grief others in anyway. )

Why must pvp be viewed as just combat?

Here in xsyon, you could just have your tribe work a junk pile in an area that provided some rare item, and then use those resources to become top traders. You could control an area by having a few tribe members start smaller bands and clans associated with your main tribe and "own" an area and still be totally within the rules of the game. You could send roaming hunting parties and gather bones to be the top bone armor crafters. You could try and make you tribe the most popular and have as much control of anything in game that you wanted.

Player vs. player is not only combat and ganking, it is trade, diplomacy, reputations and conduct as well.

[severin]

Good post, Mac. I think world projects sounds exciting and something similar could be implemented in Xsyon in time since terraforming and building is a huge part of the game.
I believe Horizons is now called Istaria, the game where you can play as a dragon.

[MrDDT]

ROFL
This cracks me up.

[NorCalGooey]

Why don't we just road up the whole world and see how everyone likes that?

Oh yeah, because I don't know if Jordi could reset a grief like that like he can with the trees (without wiping the whole terrain).

That would literally kill any chance the game has. Resource PvP is fine, but when its the only available mode of PvP (meaning we can't attack the safe zone just what is outside of it), it kills a game.

[Liquidblade]

wanna come over and show me how much better you can build my next tower?

[MrDDT]

wanna come over and show me how much better you can build my next tower?

Huh?

I already took down 1/3 of your buildings and 1/10th your stuff. Thanks.

[Liquidblade]

Huh?

I already took down 1/3 of your buildings and 1/10th your stuff. Thanks.

lol? what you talking bout MrDDT?

[fatboy21007]

aye great post mac, I beleave the only true way in theory to make ur idea work successfully is 2 servers 1 100% pve and 1 100% pvp. Yes it shrinks the games pop by alot but gives every1 both worlds plus every1 gets what they want.

[MrDDT]

lol? what you talking bout MrDDT?

Nothing it was a joke.

I just think this is a funny topic, and I was adding some more jokes.

[aliksteel]

We get it MrDDT, You don't like Mac's idea. Please stop trying to turn it into a trolling post like you did in inhabit's post (http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/7403-Combat-on-hold...and-give-us-REASONS...) with Jadzia.

[Aethaeryn]

There are lots of things people can do to compete for sure. Everything you listed of course will not sound to great to FPS type I pnwzju players. A lot of what you mentioned (aside from the building and market thing) are just using/abusing game mechanics. I don't think finding a way to do something that was not intended is good PvP - but that is my opinion.

I do appreciate what you are getting at though - I just wouldn't consider everything you said "valid" forms of PvP.
You also left out cutting down every tree you see near your enemies.

[Liquidblade]

aye great post mac, I beleave the only true way in theory to make ur idea work successfully is 2 servers 1 100% pve and 1 100% pvp. Yes it shrinks the games pop by alot but gives every1 both worlds plus every1 gets what they want.

I would have to disagree Fatboy. keep everyone in the same server, but increase their lands, add a defense mechanism for the player that doesn't want to pvp, where he has to work real hard to keep his land. But to be honest is survival of the fittest. I love this game because of of that, if you are not strong enough to defend your land either submit to the new "ruler" or move somewhere else. just like in real life, you have trouble makers in your neighborhood, you either fight them, join them or move away. I don't like to pvp ( fight player versus player for the sake of this column) but I can contribute to our lands to make them stronger in case of an attack.

Point:
If someone doesn't like pvp join a tribe that has enough people to do the pvp, so you can stay at home and make them the supplies you need.

[severin]

Events or competitions that would involve heavy use of wood or similar materials could be limited to certain areas. It's human nature to compete, socialize, argue, trade, debate et cetera and therefore obvious we like such in games we spend time in.
No one can argue, that ideas from players, within sensible parameters, is good fuel for developers, testers and other players in games.

[esudar]

i just fell asleep thinking about this uber lame kind of "pvp" which isnt even pvp.

rofl

[MrDDT]

i just fell asleep thinking about this uber lame kind of "pvp" which isnt even pvp.

rofl

I was laughing to hard to fall asleep.

aliksteel,
That would be like me saying, you stop posting here, because you making it into more of a carebear game like you have done in soooo many other post.

Last time I checked. The forums were a way for EVERYONE to express themselves, not just people that have bad ideas of how to exploit systems to try to "pvp" because the real PVP (combat) is broke as heck in this game and not even close to being balanced or fun for anyone that knows what real pvp (combat) is like.

I also think its super funny, because when I was doing some of these "pvp" tactics, I was called a griefer. Things like denying people junk piles, and chopping trees, destroying other resources, and blowing up buildings.

But hey now that real pvp (combat) is broken even worse than before with the desync. I guess all we are left with is griefer style pvp.

[VeryWiiTee]

MrDDT.. There is a difference on trolling and being a carebear.
It would be like saying stop posting about more reasons to PvP.

Endless and pointless discussion.

Although, this topic I got to agree has zero to do with PvP and more to do with competition. Though it is two sides of the same medallion.

Think of it as: versus refers to fighting other things whereas competing is racing to complete something first.

You don't fight another team by building a monument faster, you compete.

On a side note. I like that you, MrDDT, are the master and has all the knowledge of the perfect PvP system, yet you haven't been hired by a single game firm to complete your awesome system. Maybe, like the rest of us, your idea is only suitable for you.
- You find combat broken. I actually like it, though some things needs tweaking as always.

[MrDDT]

MrDDT.. There is a difference on trolling and being a carebear.
It would be like saying stop posting about more reasons to PvP.

Endless and pointless discussion.

Although, this topic I got to agree has zero to do with PvP and more to do with competition. Though it is two sides of the same medallion.

Think of it as: versus refers to fighting other things whereas competing is racing to complete something first.

You don't fight another team by building a monument faster, you compete.

On a side note. I like that you, MrDDT, are the master and has all the knowledge of the perfect PvP system, yet you haven't been hired by a single game firm to complete your awesome system. Maybe, like the rest of us, your idea is only suitable for you.
- You find combat broken. I actually like it, though some things needs tweaking as always.


First you make personal attacks when things dont work out for you. You dont know me nor who has or hasnt hired me.
I never said I had a perfect PVP system.

If you dont find combat broken great. I can find 100s of people that disagree with you, can you find 100s that agree with you?

Combat to me has got worse. I would say most people Ive talked to agree.
Parry, dodge, arc swings etc dont mean crap in this combat, let alone people cant even kill each other. Do you even do combat? Have you done PVP since the last patch or 2?

You think Im trolling because I dont agree with you, well let me just point out I have to say many people dont agree on things, doesnt mean they are "trolling" you should look the word up.

The things that the OP says most people would call "griefing" NOT PVP. I find it funny how things change on these forums so fast and they cant follow hard facts. Just based on feelings. I wonder whats next. Im going to be called a carebear because I dont agree with exploiting systems and griefing people is the best way to do "pvp"?

[Shrimps]

I fondly remember playing a game called Horizons.

It was a PVE game, fantasy setting, where all players could master all skills and crafts.

You may think this would get boring fast, but in actuality it lead to very creative ways of doing PvP even though the game did not allow players to even bump into eachother much less strike them with a weapon.

There was the typical train mobs onto your enemy, and the ever popular steal a mobs or steal a resources a player was gathering. But that is mere childsplay.

Where you could do real player vs. player was in competing to finish a world building project before another team could, to add to your personal fame. Since the projects would stay in the world from that time on it was a long term monument to actions YOU took.

There was also the aspect of cornering a market in some crafted item. Someone would be seeling easy to make items at an inflated price, You could them work together with others and flood the market with lower priced items and watch as the first seller depleted his funds buying your cheaper items and re-listing them at higher prices, until he just could not do it anymore and you would continue flooding and finally establish a newer more reasonable price that folks woul dbuy and soon all the other high priced items would disappear.

Then there was the truly gratifying times when a group of macroers would be attempting to farm mobs for some special resource or loot, and because you were much more powerful and faster keep them from getting the mobs by just tagging them all first.

These are form of pvp that are as valid as contested totem or sieging a camp to take resources or using logs someone else logged in non-tribal grounds.

Why must pvp be viewed as just combat?

LOL

90% of the things you just listed would be considered griefing in any self respecting online game.

Stealing mobs and rescources and the training mobs onto other players? really? That's more griefing than I've seen possible in a PVP enviroment in a long while.

Posts like these are the reason I still read the forums, they crack me up. The thread title should be " PVP doesn't have to mean just killing them, you can grief them too!"

[VeryWiiTee]

First you make personal attacks when things dont work out for you. You dont know me nor who has or hasnt hired me.
I never said I had a perfect PVP system.

If you dont find combat broken great. I can find 100s of people that disagree with you, can you find 100s that agree with you?

Combat to me has got worse. I would say most people Ive talked to agree.
Parry, dodge, arc swings etc dont mean crap in this combat, let alone people cant even kill each other. Do you even do combat? Have you done PVP since the last patch or 2?

You think Im trolling because I dont agree with you, well let me just point out I have to say many people dont agree on things, doesnt mean they are "trolling" you should look the word up.

The things that the OP says most people would call "griefing" NOT PVP. I find it funny how things change on these forums so fast and they cant follow hard facts. Just based on feelings. I wonder whats next. Im going to be called a carebear because I dont agree with exploiting systems and griefing people is the best way to do "pvp"?

Got it wrong. As usual.
I'm saying you are trolling because all you have done is laughing of a suggestion from another player not even trying to moderate yourself. As you usually do when someone comes up with an idea you do not like. Something most people would consider an attack on their ideas and when you turn it against you, it is all of the sudden a personal attack. I like it :). Cracks me up. But let that rest.

I have done PvP. I've even done PvE though animals are scarce in our area - again.
And I haven't said combat didn't need tweaking. I like it because I can choose direction, swing power etc. Not because any of the said items works perfectly.

Last time you were complaining it was too easy to kill each other. Now it is too hard. I find it funny how you people can change so often yourself, no?

In the end. I don't consider the OP's suggestions griefing. But in EQ you were used to getting trained etc.

[MrDDT]

Got it wrong. As usual.
I'm saying you are trolling because all you have done is laughing of a suggestion from another player not even trying to moderate yourself. As you usually do when someone comes up with an idea you do not like. Something most people would consider an attack on their ideas and when you turn it against you, it is all of the sudden a personal attack. I like it :). Cracks me up. But let that rest.

I have done PvP. I've even done PvE though animals are scarce in our area - again.
And I haven't said combat didn't need tweaking. I like it because I can choose direction, swing power etc. Not because any of the said items works perfectly.

Last time you were complaining it was too easy to kill each other. Now it is too hard. I find it funny how you people can change so often yourself, no?

In the end. I don't consider the OP's suggestions griefing. But in EQ you were used to getting trained etc.


The OP's post is griefing by any normal person's standards if you cant see that, every post you make about it is void. That's is a given.

You like the current combat system. I didnt say I didnt like it, I said its broken. Which even you say it is also, just you call it "Needing tweaks" I call it "Broken". I could use the term "needing tweaks" but I think that would be a massive understatement, now if part of combat was working I could agree needing tweaking.

Like:
Desync - still a problem
How you move in combat - still glitchy with many other issues.
Combat speed - Still not working well enough to even start balancing weapons or anything
Parry and Dodge - Not doing what it should be doing, not working right and not useful at all.
Damage of weapons - really messed up and very low
Armor effects - not much here, they messed it up big time with the last few patches.


I mean I could list more, but with all those MAJOR issues, I would call it broken. If we were talking about maybe attack speeds with X type of weapon vs Y types of weapons, or stats effecting damage in this way instead of that way etc. I would call it tweaking. But when basic systems are NOT working, Its broken.

[severin]

Enough!
Stop turning posts into something personal and twist the original subject. It's disrespect to the topic starter, don't you find.

Now, the original post is a story about another game that uses competitions that can be seen as a player versus player style other than combat and the topic starter's question is; why must pvp be viewed as just combat?

We're not talking about whether the Xsyon combat system is good, all right, hmm or bad. Use another topic for that, please.

[MrDDT]

Enough!
Stop turning posts into something personal and twist the original subject. It's disrespect to the topic starter, don't you find.

Now, the original post is a story about another game that uses competitions that can be seen as a player versus player style other than combat and the topic starter's question is; why must pvp be viewed as just combat?

We're not talking about whether the Xsyon combat system is good, all right, hmm or bad. Use another topic for that, please.


Ive read the OP and it is about combat. It even says so in the title. Im not sure how you think its not.

Im talking about the combat and how bad it is in Xsyon. On top of that, I think the first post is one of the worst topics Ive seen in a while. If I were to see these types of people in game, I would get people in my area to KOS them and remove their towns (if it were PVP able). Because that's like griefing people and NOTHING to do with PVP.

If you bring into question topics, you must understand that those topics need to be talked about before moving on. If you dont you fail in even a simple system.

Ive played Horizons for a while, and it was fun, and I dont think anyone viewed PVP as "Flooding the market place first". Or "I built my house first". I think they just viewed it as it should be views a goal they wanted to do, nothing to do with PVP.

[Mactavendish]

No clue when you played ddt, but I would have to bet is was not long at all. But with this subject you are not just off base but totally wrong.

In horizons, you could not interact directly with any player or npc. In fact you could walk right through them. Because of this, the ONLY way to pvp was to do some of the things mentioned. And YES folks did view those things as the only form of pvp. I was the leader of the longest running guild there, well know by all players and well respected. You sir, I'm sure nobody remembers at all.

And I agree with Severin, you have to try and spin things to your liking and are very willing to hijack threads to suit your purpose.

COMBAT is not the only way pvp is done. You don't get that and that's ok.

Shoot, even in Xsyon I compete with other players everyday. Just ask any other guild leader if they don't agree when I successfully recruit another new player. And where as I will never denude an area of trees or cut trees on any other tribes land, I will cut felled trees and craft with the logs IF ... notice I said IF, they are totally inactive. I will never roadover a junk pile like you have done, or nuke trees or structures when a tribe is moving their totem like you have.

Let's face it. Your style of play, although allowed, is certainly NOT liked or respected by other players. It is small minded and childish, and against your own interests, as can be seen by the many people you have run off from the game. Who you gonna pvp with now? OH!, that's right you can't because folks just don't want to put up with your antics when Xsyon is in this state.

Now that combat does not give YOU the advantage, it is what you cry about the most.

[Dubanka]

+10 for comedy value.

by all means...implement consensual non-combat player versus player challenges.
Got a problem with your neighbor? DANCE OFF! Loser yields.
Can't decide who should have ownership of the sand bar? WHO CAN GATHER THE MOST STONE IN 10 MINUTES!!
Territory dispute? 6 hours - who can build the longest wall. Loser packs their bags and leaves.

This is some thrilling stuff. I can't wait to see the forum hate over nefarious wall building tactics or bribery accusations related to hard core dance off judging.

[Trenchfoot]

Hehe. Dub. It's both funny and sad at the same time.

Nothing like a dance off to stimulate diplomacy. I mean, a tribe holding a monopoly would really quake in their boots with the threat of a dance off hanging over their heads. What, we're hoarding resources and land and destroying yours so that ours becomes more valuable? We should really change our ways or else there will be hell to pay. Dancing hell. Tap shoes and leotards will fly. Oh the humanity. Can't we just get along? And further why should we?

Combat is the only PVP mentioned here that can serve as a definitive form of conflict resolution when players become completely unreasonable. The other things, not so much.

Enjoy your stalemate. I hear tic tac toe is a blast.

[Mactavendish]

:D

I find both your comments pretty funny too!

Armed combat will not resolve anything in this game. It will ONLY serve to make a player feel a bit better that he "got it over" on a fellow player.

The reality is this...

Let's say you come over to show your amazing power and strength against me. I walk out to meet you, you kill me... AND.... what? I didn't even try and fight, I just stood here and let you kill me. You loot me and get a few easily replaced items, then I respawn back at my totem safe and sound.

What exactly have you resolved? regardless of how unreasonable you or I am, what has actually changed? You cannot take anything I cannot replace very easily. You cannot harm anything inside my tribal area, and the best you can do is remove trees in my area. None of that will change my ability to play whatsoever.

Even if there were a few items I could actually lose that would be important to me, a bit more time and I can have them back or decide I don't need them after all. The games mechanics are all there is to work with, and xsyon does not allow anything that would provide what you suggest.

Also what you guys seem to want, sieges, destroying structures that took months, and forcibly taking over other tribes is not on the table for here nor has it been.

I just cannot understand why you guys troll the forums and try to convince everyone that crush and destroy is the only viable pvp options when there are indeed many others. I think the issue is not so much that you don't understand, but more that you believe that if you say a thing loud enough and often enough it will become fact.

So far.. that has not worked here.. has it?

[NorCalGooey]

mac, thanks for describing the problems with the "open pvp" this game claims to have

conflict has no point in this game and in a lot of cases isn't even possible

[Dubanka]

mac, i actually agree with you.
as i've stated many times, nothing has value.
There is very little point to do anything besides the act of actually doing it.
Setting aside the fact that combat is fubar, there is really no reason to do it except (like everything else) just to do it.
There is no reason to protect territory or take someone elses (even if you could) because there is another identical patch right over yonder.
There is no benefit to building x, y, or z structure...why should i build one type of wall over another? Granite vs. Limestone? Wood vs. Stone? Who cares?
Who cares when you can full loot when the gear you wear doesnt matter and has no value?

but you're proposing fixing the leaky faucet by watering the lawn.


I just cannot understand why you guys troll the forums and try to convince everyone that crush and destroy is the only viable pvp options when there are indeed many others. I think the issue is not so much that you don't understand, but more that you believe that if you say a thing loud enough and often enough it will become fact.
I've grown beyond trying to convince everyone i'm right. I want to see this game be everything thing every carebear has dreamt about. I want to see how a non-conflict 'sandbox' game that has no actual point works out. I'm curious. I want to see the dance offs, and the wall building competitions.


So far.. that has not worked here.. has it?
I don't see that anyones hopes and dreams have been fulfilled here...So i'm being selfless and cheering on your efforts. it gets the sand. it makes the morter. it gets the stone. it makes the wall. Yippee!!! I'm all for it.

[Mactavendish]

Actually What I am proposing is that in the interim, while we wait for the next patches and fixes that must occur before other things are improved, that we dream up a few alternatives to combat pvp.

I mean, isn't that a big part of how this game is designed to let players develop quests, and competitions? Isn't that also part of what a sandbox game is about?

We don't have meaningful pvp now. So, instead of just pointing out the obvious, why don't we all try and dream up a few things to spice up the day?

PS. Many of my hopes HAVE been fulfilled here. Since I love to build and plan, this is close to all i need anyway ... but I totally acknowledge that is is not for most.

[Shrimps]

:D

I find both your comments pretty funny too!

Armed combat will not resolve anything in this game. It will ONLY serve to make a player feel a bit better that he "got it over" on a fellow player.

The reality is this...

Let's say you come over to show your amazing power and strength against me. I walk out to meet you, you kill me... AND.... what? I didn't even try and fight, I just stood here and let you kill me. You loot me and get a few easily replaced items, then I respawn back at my totem safe and sound.

What exactly have you resolved? regardless of how unreasonable you or I am, what has actually changed? You cannot take anything I cannot replace very easily. You cannot harm anything inside my tribal area, and the best you can do is remove trees in my area. None of that will change my ability to play whatsoever.

Even if there were a few items I could actually lose that would be important to me, a bit more time and I can have them back or decide I don't need them after all. The games mechanics are all there is to work with, and xsyon does not allow anything that would provide what you suggest.

Also what you guys seem to want, sieges, destroying structures that took months, and forcibly taking over other tribes is not on the table for here nor has it been.

I just cannot understand why you guys troll the forums and try to convince everyone that crush and destroy is the only viable pvp options when there are indeed many others. I think the issue is not so much that you don't understand, but more that you believe that if you say a thing loud enough and often enough it will become fact.

So far.. that has not worked here.. has it?

You've just described everything wrong with the developers view of pvp.

Also, all the systems in game right now were NOT pvp players ideas they all came from scrubby carebears so if you are going to blame anyone for the game being dead, blame them.

Might as well take all combat out if there isn't going to be any sieging or anything of the like because without it the game is so many different levels of pointless.

Also you know what game has EXACTLY what you're asking for???? "A Tale In The Desert", you know why nobody plays it?? because it's BORING AND POINTLESS.

Really funny posts here though, so many people and yet so few braincells between them, no wonder the simplest points seem to elude them.

made the key points easier to read for the downies on the forums.

[krimara]

You've just described everything wrong with the developers view of pvp.

Also, all the systems in game right now were NOT pvp players ideas they all came from scrubby carebears so if you are going to blame anyone for the game being dead, blame them.

Might as well take all combat out if there isn't going to be any sieging or anything of the like because without it the game is so many different levels of pointless.

Also you know what game has EXACTLY what you're asking for???? "A Tale In The Desert", you know why nobody plays it?? because it's BORING AND POINTLESS.

Really funny posts here though, so many people and yet so few braincells between them, no wonder the simplest points seem to elude them.

made the key points easier to read for the downies on the forums.


Ok, PvP is the only thing that will save this game. Go ahead and program the fixes and we shall all see the greatness....Oh wait you aren't the developer of the game. You don't have the vision they do of the future content for the game. So quit trolling, be constructive instead of destructive, have a cookie. It will all be ok.

[Dubanka]

that was a very constructive and a complete non-trolling post. snicker doodle please.

[krimara]

that was a very constructive and a complete non-trolling post. snicker doodle please.

I'm glad you seen the humor in the post.

*gives Dubanka two snicker doodles*

[Shrimps]

Gonna take a hell of a lot more than a cookie to make everything okay. Maybe a cupcake, or a brownie...NO a pie, mmm a chocolate pie.... BRB gonna make a pie.

[Trenchfoot]

Armed combat will not resolve anything in this game. It will ONLY serve to make a player feel a bit better that he "got it over" on a fellow player.

The reality is this...

Let's say you come over to show your amazing power and strength against me. I walk out to meet you, you kill me... AND.... what? I didn't even try and fight, I just stood here and let you kill me. You loot me and get a few easily replaced items, then I respawn back at my totem safe and sound.

What exactly have you resolved? regardless of how unreasonable you or I am, what has actually changed? You cannot take anything I cannot replace very easily. You cannot harm anything inside my tribal area, and the best you can do is remove trees in my area. None of that will change my ability to play whatsoever.

Well if egotism is the only prism thru which you view a motive for armed conflict then you would be right there.


Even if there were a few items I could actually lose that would be important to me, a bit more time and I can have them back or decide I don't need them after all.
The games mechanics are all there is to work with, and xsyon does not allow anything that would provide what you suggest.

Also what you guys seem to want, sieges, destroying structures that took months, and forcibly taking over other tribes is not on the table for here nor has it been.

So you're saying everything in the game currently that is inherently combat oriented are simply bait and switch marketing tools, and that they have no plans to give them purpose? Interesting.


I just cannot understand why you guys troll the forums and try to convince everyone that crush and destroy is the only viable pvp options when there are indeed many others. I think the issue is not so much that you don't understand, but more that you believe that if you say a thing loud enough and often enough it will become fact.

How do you propose we throw off lawlessness, oppression, and tyranny? By picketing or asking them nicely? When you remove the repercussions of peoples behavior you give them license to treat you as poorly as they wish and at the same time ties your hands so that your only recourse is to lay down and take it.

Lack produces need. Fulfilling need creates purpose. Without instability there is no need, and therefore no purpose. Now if you said that combat isn't the only instability that inspires purpose I would agree with you. I would also point out that the following things flourish under the umbrella of the threat of instability that combat provides. Things like, trade, diplomacy, mutual respect, common decency, civility, and peace.

Other things (like a dance off) do not inspire any of the above. Enjoy the game without them.

[MrDDT]

No clue when you played ddt, but I would have to bet is was not long at all. But with this subject you are not just off base but totally wrong.

In horizons, you could not interact directly with any player or npc. In fact you could walk right through them. Because of this, the ONLY way to pvp was to do some of the things mentioned. And YES folks did view those things as the only form of pvp. I was the leader of the longest running guild there, well know by all players and well respected. You sir, I'm sure nobody remembers at all.

And I agree with Severin, you have to try and spin things to your liking and are very willing to hijack threads to suit your purpose.

COMBAT is not the only way pvp is done. You don't get that and that's ok.

Shoot, even in Xsyon I compete with other players everyday. Just ask any other guild leader if they don't agree when I successfully recruit another new player. And where as I will never denude an area of trees or cut trees on any other tribes land, I will cut felled trees and craft with the logs IF ... notice I said IF, they are totally inactive. I will never roadover a junk pile like you have done, or nuke trees or structures when a tribe is moving their totem like you have.

Let's face it. Your style of play, although allowed, is certainly NOT liked or respected by other players. It is small minded and childish, and against your own interests, as can be seen by the many people you have run off from the game. Who you gonna pvp with now? OH!, that's right you can't because folks just don't want to put up with your antics when Xsyon is in this state.

Now that combat does not give YOU the advantage, it is what you cry about the most.


I played for a few months but got bored due to nothing else to do. Been there done that.

I never said there was PVP in Horizons. So dunno where you think Im "wrong" at. You should reread my post if you cant understand that.

Combat isnt the only way PVP is done, just so happens to be one of the best, if not thee best way its done. The stuff in your OP, is more like griefing than anything, and really I dont think it would be fun for anyone but a few griefers. Even then only for a short time til everyone (the last 200 people) quits.


I think non combat tactics are valid, however, they should be used WITH combat options not as the ONLY real choice.

You dont see me crying about it, in fact you should see me posting less on the forums dont you? You know why? Its getting to the point I just dont care. This game is moving so slow and in the wrong direction because of carebears that its pointless. Even when its proven how these wrong choices are messing up the game, they still cant admit its that.

I dont see how "combat" ever gave me an advantage in this game, advantage over what? Winning all the PVP events? For crappy rewards? I have more crafting skills than just about everyone I know, I dont see how "combat" gave me an advantage of anything.


Ok, PvP is the only thing that will save this game. Go ahead and program the fixes and we shall all see the greatness....Oh wait you aren't the developer of the game. You don't have the vision they do of the future content for the game. So quit trolling, be constructive instead of destructive, have a cookie. It will all be ok.

I love how people like this go from one extreme to the next.

I dont see anyone saying "PVP will save this game" however, I do see people saying that its a darn good start.

When you promise something in a game, you should have it for the people that bought it based on that promise. PVP isnt like saying "oh you can have pink hair" its a full system, which needs support systems to go with it. It would be like removing skills from the game completely.

This is what they did to the PVPers. Combat is broken, its not fun, no value, and not even close to being ready for "balancing".

Carebears made this game a sim, and guess what they are not happy with it. They are crying for it to change, its too funny.

[Liquidblade]

as much as I hate to say it.....this game needs people like MrDDT. There has to be a balance between the good and the bad.....with out it people will be bored. Like Trenchfoot said "Lack produces need. Fulfilling need creates purpose. Without instability there is no need, and therefore no purpose. Now if you said that combat isn't the only instability that inspires purpose I would agree with you. I would also point out that the following things flourish under the umbrella of the threat of instability that combat provides. Things like, trade, diplomacy, mutual respect, common decency, civility, and peace."

I know that MrDDT may have pushed some people to quit....but where was the good guys? We have a mentality of " My neigh boor is getting raped, but this does not concern me, cause is not happening to me" We should have brought the fight back to MrDDT. Now that he doesnt play people have nothing to worry about and get bored! Just a thought.

[aliksteel]

To the OP, Just to clear up if anyone is thinking I'm for this type of game play. No I'm not, I never posted to this point because I feel people should be able to share there idea's here. No mater how I like them or not.

Now to the rest of this de-railed post that went to shit!!!

Let' blame the Carebears!!!
From almost the start of the Xsyon forums, People that wanted FFA PVP has said that carebears are killing the game. I've read forum members post that said at first the game was going to be FFA PVP. I have never read anything from Jooky saying this. Mater-A-Fact I don't think I would have joined the game if I had read that.

Am I a Carebears, Fanboy, Sim Player? You damn straight I am,
I play the way I enjoy playing, Just like YOU ALL DO!

Do I want FFA PVP? HELL NO!!!

Do want it to be all PVE? HELL NO!!!

I do want PVP,
But do I want it to be unsafe 100% of the time? HELL NO!!!

I do want safe area's to a point, There will be very few tribe(At lest at the start) that can have a 24/7 PVP team in-game. And I damn sure don't want to log in one morning and find that some asshat has come to my town over night when no one was logged in and trashed it so bad that we would have to rebuild everything. How the dev team works out the way medieval siege type play will work, Well thats up to them, And I'm all for it. Do it in a way I like, I stay playing. Do it wrong and I walk. I have no problem with having to fight to keep what I want. I just don't want it to be in a way that people can take my city out when we are not online.

Don't blame the carebears for something they did not do, Jooky said from the start it would never be a Darkfall game, Stop trying to tell everyone it was and the carebears stopped Jooky from doing that. From the first time I read the front page of the website I have never read anything anything that said it would be FFA.

And when it comes to people saying there is nothing to do in the game, And it has no meaning. What do you think will be that meaning? The game will be run by the players, Value is the monetary worth of something, We say what that worth is. What the dev team has to do is slow down how fast we level and how much we all can do across the board. This is already started, and being worked on as well. But for the most part we will be the ones running the nut house. And if you can't come up with something on your own, Maybe you need to start recruiting poeple that can.

God willing, This will be my only rant for the month.

[Mactavendish]

3 of the last few posts have been nothing but trolls spinning things like they always do.

Take trenchfoot's comments. It is obvious that you have not read everything posted here by the owner and developer of the game, you have been listening to the other trolls to much. Even the last answer to the questions about sieges was NO from Jordi. I am decidedly NOT saying anything was bait and switch at all, thats what you and your fellow trolls say. I am saying it was never promised to be what you think. And to be sure you fully understand, I am NOT against combat at all. I have been saying it is not the ONLY form of pvp, maybe that's just too complex a sentence for you and I am sorry about that. :)

I fully agree with you that lack produces need, and that this game currently has no real needs. I have said this myself many times. ( again you don't read anything but fellow troll posts do you? ) There are many ways need can be developed. You just happen to think that combat is the only "real" method to accomplish it. And this I disagree with. Lack of resources create need as well, as does rarity, difficulty of getting the resources and how fast things need to be replaced. Slowly they are working on all that.

Shiimp and ddt believe carebears ruined this game. Blame who you feel is responsible, but remember the developer makes the choices, NOT the players. At best we can suggest and complain, then they in turn will decide if an idea has merit or not and whether it fits their vision of the game. So far, I have NOT seen them change from what THEY wanted to do based on player input if it goes against what they have always been working towards. It it true they have added a few nice things at the request of players, but they have also taken away things the pvp'ers wanted and made systems function in ways none of the players asked for. So really fellas, your claims that the carebears killed or modified the game to their vision is not only totally false, it again it's selfs-serving and not in the best interest of the game at large.

Liquideblade, I agree with you totally about the good need to rise to the challenge that evil players create. The only exception I would take to you comments is the fact that we really don't have the mechanics to stop some kinds of evil. For example, if an evil player came over and paved over your junk piles, how do you stop him? If you are a homesteader you move, if a tribe you attempt to kill him over and over till he stops. Another example, an evil player comes and clear cuts you area and destroys the logs as well. We all know that you need a tree to sprout a tree. How are you going to have resources close by? You are not, so you have to leave your camp and attempt to drag logs back to camp. just for the sake of argument, is that something any of us find fun? Even ddt realizes that is a very bad mechanic that needs fixing. Or how about the crafter type players that do not want to pvp. How can they exist in this world along side crush and dominate players without some form of safe zone?

Aliksteel, I don't want pve only either. And in actuality I am not a carebear either. I am not blind to any of the issues here, and keenly feel the problems these issues create for all players everyday. Having a very active tribe, I hear all the time what players like and dislike and how it affects them. Combat changes have not made any of them happy. If anything it has made doing some things MUCH more tedious in an already over tedious game. I do applaud the developers for adjusting some things to be less tedious, but also have no delusions that they will make it all easy peezy for me. Lack of animals is of great concern to me personally as its the best source of bones and we all need better armor if they fix combat. I love to build, and feel if should take effort, but the lack of simple things like ramps make 2-3 story buildings a long and laborious JOB, not a fun form of entertainment. ALL these things are being worked on, and we see them making progress, albeit slow.

Folks.. This entire game is a work in progress. It has been restated many times by the developer he wants all types to play in the same world, and that he wants safety for those that are not interested in pvp, BUT that he wants pvp as well to exist here. HE is working out how that will happen. Slowly we are moving there, and one day I'm sure we will see something unique and amazing here. IN THE MEAN TIME.... I suggest we all play if we enjoy it, move on if we don't and ALL try and get into the idea of what the game is trying to do, and see what you can help make.

[Yuyito]

The funny thing is: same people keep arguing about "pvp" vs "carebear". Meanwhile, the game keeps circling the drain. Another victim of over promised, under deliver, and a complete lack of vision. It's like the slowest train wreck in history. Enjoy the ride... chooo, chooo!!!

[Dubanka]

Folks.. This entire game is a work in progress. It has been restated many times by the developer he wants all types to play in the same world, and that he wants safety for those that are not interested in pvp, BUT that he wants pvp as well to exist here. HE is working out how that will happen. Slowly we are moving there, and one day I'm sure we will see something unique and amazing here. IN THE MEAN TIME.... I suggest we all play if we enjoy it, move on if we don't and ALL try and get into the idea of what the game is trying to do, and see what you can help make.

work in progress...not really. what has changed since feb? stability is a little better (is that because of code, or because the number of people on at any given time is but a fraction of what it was?). Ok we have animals, and trees grow back. What has changed from a gameplay standpoint?
Nothing.
Work in progress implies that progress is being made.

Following two games that released at the same time, in similar condition...xsyon and earthrise...earthrise has made signficant strides in unscrewing itself, but still has a lot of work to do...that is a work in progress. Xsyon is, functionally, in the exact same place it was 6 months ago. It's a sim.

So. Stop the charade, and make it a sim. Remove the ffa aspect...no pvp at all...focus on being a sim. I won't play it (i know, some of you are crushed), but maybe somebody will.

Xsyon needs to decide what it's going to be when it grows up. As has been said by many, many times, despite the devs intentions you can't cater to all the people at all times. PIck an audience. Combat sucks. So pick the other audience.

[fatboy21007]

dont forget dub, xsyon is also attempting a 50/50 balance and alot more has been done, architecture parts was also added-scavenging made a hell of alot tougher-- scheme limits and the next patch adds alot more. So id say this game has progressed, considering earthrise has a hell of alot bigger dev team then xsyon as xsyon only has 3 programmers, and u see several patchs every month id say their progress is pretty decent. I know of games they see 1-3 contents patchs in 1 year. In xsyon in the 6 months ive been here ive seen 2 and that process is speeding up. It neither you have the patience or ya dont. Common sence should have told ya would take up to a year to get the game in a complete state to get new fun things rolling out.

[Dubanka]

oh i don't disagree they've done stuff...that stuff just hasn't impacted gameplay.
there are some more animals
there are some more buildings
there are some more resources
combat animations are different (better? not sure)
but the underlying gameplay, or rather the holes in the gameplay have not been addressed.

and yes, 3 programmers, and overworked hamster running the server and a dev team on the other side of the world...that is not an excuse, it is their business model.

And to go with that business model, well most businesses look to identify their core market, and then maximize their ability capture that market share. The more you deviate from your core market the greater chance you stand to dilute your ability to capitalize on it. Hence, what you want to do, and focus on it.
xsyon will not be a pvp wonderland, a basket weaving paradise and builders dream...at least not at the same time. They simply do not have the staff to spend the time to balance the SIGNIFANT needs of the various game parts. Flow charts. What's important. Need ta, want ta, like ta. focus on the need, make a plan, execute. There are more important things to focus on than new recipes. How about making existing recipes have value? There are more important things to focus on than combat animations. How about fixing desync so you can actually have combat. As has been said ad nauseum by the fan club...it's not a million dollar company. They need to focus their resources on their core gaming mechanisms and make those systems work, then incrementally re add new system.

Eliminate pvp
Primary focus on making the building system phenomenal
Secondary focus on making the crafting system have value (which would involve addressing the resource issue).

Building is the best part of this game. Polish it. Expand it. Focus on it. There were a whole lot of ideas thrown around (regarding totems) that could be implemented on a non combat basis that would give real purpose to building stuff.

anyway. just the peanut gallery. Really not hating, just trying to put out the facts as i see them.

[AlexTaldren]

The players need purpose. How that's handled is up to the developers, but without purpose, people won't play for very long. Even if it was something as simple as mutant NPCs that attack totems at night and need to be repelled. If left undefended, they could eventually destroy walls, buildings, bins, etc. Suddenly, I have a reason to build walls, defenses, etc. Purpose.

PvP is the same way. Just have to find a purpose for it.

[Dubanka]

The players need purpose. How that's handled is up to the developers, but without purpose, people won't play for very long. Even if it was something as simple as mutant NPCs that attack totems at night and need to be repelled. If left undefended, they could eventually destroy walls, buildings, bins, etc. Suddenly, I have a reason to build walls, defenses, etc. Purpose.

PvP is the same way. Just have to find a purpose for it.

true, but if one thing has become a truth, is that pvp players and 'nons' have a completely idea of what purpose is.
instead of trying to accomodate both camps, retreat, focus on fulfilling one, then reevaluate on the others re-implementation.
the dynamics that are required to have a productive pvp environment are simply not here, nor do they appear to be forthcoming...focus on what the game does well, or at least does decently, and then build upon that.

[Shrimps]

I will never understand why all the carebears seem to think that PVP automatically means Quake2011 FFA Deathmatch Online. PVP can be balanced and it's the most fun when it is balanced correctly through a Karma or alignment system. In fact, balancing the Alignment system would be very easy, but it's way too late for that now.

I agree with Dubanka, maybe you could've salvaged your pvp crowd a few months ago, but the second Xsyon posted the announcement that totems are safe forever, he abandoned the pvp crowd and turned his game into a sim. A half complete sim, but a sim nonetheless. If that announcement hadn't been made and there was still going to be pvp sieging further down the line I know that there would be at lest 1 medium sized tribe still subbed and building and preparing. But anyways maybe I'll try earthrise later on, for now AOC is F2P and is the only thing close to a decent pvp MMO out at the moment.

[Mactavendish]

The idea that was stated in the very beginning what that he is trying to build what he feels a the perfect balance between both pve and pvp. An ambitious idea to be sure and one surely worth trying to do.

BUT...

It is one mans dream and a small dev team to pull off. It might be great to just focus on one area and since almost all pvp focused players have indeed left, maybe you have a valid point .. at least from a players perspective. I have NO clue what Jordi and team feel.

It is totally a matter of perspective as to what a person calls progress as well. I actually agree with much of what your saying Dubanka, and agree with the idea that picking focus and staying focused is a HUGE part of what we need to see happen. However, if what he does is try and pull of his original vision, I can forsee that it won't happen fast. I am totally cool with that.

Haven't you noticed that we haven't seen them complaining about lack of funds to keep going like so many games do during development. My feelings are, ( and they have nothing to back them up beyond what we have seen so far... ) that they have the funds to keep developing, are moving as fast as they can with the manpower they have, and ARE making progress in the directions they want to move. I am also cool with that too.

All games appeal to a certain niche of players and that is a given. I can say with full confidence that when he has it where he wants ( even if it evolves into a totally pve game, Not that I am even for a fully pve only game at all. ) and then does some advertising, MANY people with join this game and enjoy what it has to offer.

Added after 9 minutes:

I guess that is the way with some people Shrimps. I am totally for PVP in xsyon, and have always been. Combat pvp is not my style mind you, as I am looking for more complex interactions between players then simple kill them and take their stuff.

And again You seem to be operating under the impression that so called carebears finished off this game when it was never said by Jordi ( ever ) that there was gonna be sieges, nor has he ever backed away from wanting safe zones of some sort in this game. If anything Pvp'rs got the wrong impression about this game due to pvp being in a sand box game. Sandbox does not mean NO rules, it means non linear play where players define much of the content. At the moment thare are NO alignment features working here, nor systems of karma or repercussions for acting evil. You really can't have a viable pvp game without some of those working. So.. pvp here atm is pointless.

[MrDDT]

To the OP, Just to clear up if anyone is thinking I'm for this type of game play. No I'm not, I never posted to this point because I feel people should be able to share there idea's here. No mater how I like them or not.

Now to the rest of this de-railed post that went to shit!!!

Let' blame the Carebears!!!
From almost the start of the Xsyon forums, People that wanted FFA PVP has said that carebears are killing the game. I've read forum members post that said at first the game was going to be FFA PVP. I have never read anything from Jooky saying this. Mater-A-Fact I don't think I would have joined the game if I had read that.

Am I a Carebears, Fanboy, Sim Player? You damn straight I am,
I play the way I enjoy playing, Just like YOU ALL DO!

Do I want FFA PVP? HELL NO!!!

Do want it to be all PVE? HELL NO!!!

I do want PVP,
But do I want it to be unsafe 100% of the time? HELL NO!!!

I do want safe area's to a point, There will be very few tribe(At lest at the start) that can have a 24/7 PVP team in-game. And I damn sure don't want to log in one morning and find that some asshat has come to my town over night when no one was logged in and trashed it so bad that we would have to rebuild everything. How the dev team works out the way medieval siege type play will work, Well thats up to them, And I'm all for it. Do it in a way I like, I stay playing. Do it wrong and I walk. I have no problem with having to fight to keep what I want. I just don't want it to be in a way that people can take my city out when we are not online.

Don't blame the carebears for something they did not do, Jooky said from the start it would never be a Darkfall game, Stop trying to tell everyone it was and the carebears stopped Jooky from doing that. From the first time I read the front page of the website I have never read anything anything that said it would be FFA.

And when it comes to people saying there is nothing to do in the game, And it has no meaning. What do you think will be that meaning? The game will be run by the players, Value is the monetary worth of something, We say what that worth is. What the dev team has to do is slow down how fast we level and how much we all can do across the board. This is already started, and being worked on as well. But for the most part we will be the ones running the nut house. And if you can't come up with something on your own, Maybe you need to start recruiting poeple that can.

God willing, This will be my only rant for the month.





We have said the same things over and over. If you cant see that it has changed since when preorders first game out, I cant help that you cant read.

Safe zones were to be REMOVED once "Prelude" was over. Now its maybe they will be removed with an option if you dont want to remove them haha.
Its clear as day right there things have changed.

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/907-A-crafter-traders-(positive)-view-of-open-PvP?p=26835&viewfull=1#post26835
http://www.xsyon.com/forums/28-features/232-conflict-death-consequences-and-decisions
http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/1852-resources-on-your-back-pvp?p=29075&viewfull=1#post29075


You knew full well that this game was going to be FFA PVP, and had full looting. Times have changed. Im not even sure if you can read all these posts now as they have removed MANY of the posts that changed the way the game is over time.

Carebears have done this to the game, and now they are trying to tell me that this form of griefing the OP is talking about is what people want? You have to be kidding me.

What the OP is talking about are tactics and are griefing, they are used when well known other tools of combat, but alone its 100% griefing. Its not going to be good for the game. Its very clear what needs to be done to spark people into strife and warfare. These tree griefing tactics, junk pile paving tactics, terraforming tactics, and cornering the market tactics are not something devs should focus on to make people want to play, it will have the opposite effect.

Alik I agree even if this does go 100% PVE, it can have a lot of people playing, IF the game was to have well thought out ideas, working systems and a LOT more graphical content. Being that its a sandbox I dont see that happening, it will need to go another route. Like more tools, things like building, better choices for combat/strife with players, and more tools for economy to help spark the market into action.

Making things like "group of macroers would be attempting to farm mobs for some special resource or loot", or "train mobs onto your enemy", or "flood the market with lower priced items". Its a joke to even think those would be tactics you would want to encourage in a game.

[Mactavendish]

I am going to reply this once to you directly ddt.

I am not suggestion anyone grief others like you did with trees and paving over junk piles or destroying structures just because you could.

I was using those as examples of how even in a pve game where there was NO way to directly interact with other players, people would use those tactics to get relief from OTHER players preventing them from doing normal activities.

I am also very careful to say what I mean NOT what you want me to say. Of course some things have been bantered about as to what they MAY do in the future, but as it stands has any of it happened? Were safe zones removed? Has Jordi currently got plans to remove them? Does he want folks to have some form of safety if they do not want to participate in pvp? Come on.. you know the answers to all those questions. WE all do. Yelling loudly what you think does not make it so.

I am responding here to make sure that new players trying the game do not get the idea that you represent active players and certainly not any majority of players that actually play.

Back on Ignore you go.

[fatboy21007]

i think safe zones should stay, finish expansion totems and allow those to be attacked and only tribes who select no safe zones can use them, thus encouraging others to go full pvp. Now with the expansion totems u got 0 saftey, mb add a 3 day timer of a temp safe zone to build defenses up. But after that timer is up, everything is attackable and lootable inside that city with the expansion totem. Bam theirs the pvp needs solved and as for pve we keep are safe zones and keep doing what were doing. I think this game shines on building and custumization, This is something Xsyon needs to truly have fun with and push forward. Once all features are ingame, then having say 1k different arch peices or the ability to make tunnels or caves would add a nice bit of fun to the game. But add zombies in that from time to time attack active areas and they will have their own camp you can do raid and attack. So then boths sides have the same thing pve and pvp get both worlds and everyone is happy. Bam easy solution that doesnt force anyway on anyone.

[NorCalGooey]

FB,that's one of the first ideas you have had that I really like. Mostly the part about you don't get an expansion totem if you don't choose to go full PvP. By full PvP, it shouldn't mean the capital totem is able to be contested, just raided for items and allowed to be destroyed via siege. However, no totem capture! Guilds combined 1000s of hours terraforming, it's just cruel. But I don't mind being able to destroy wood buildings with fire and stone buildings with siege equipment.

also, i like the 3 day temporary safe zone after placing expansion totem. makes complete sense to have that. maybe even make it one week. building in this game DOES take a long time.

So basically

Capital totem = no safe zone but no totem capture (bins are full loot able, construction destroyable, but ALL items cannot be deleted while on enemy tribe land) = Allowed to have expansion totems
Capital totem = full safe zone as is now = No expansion totems

brilliant.

[fatboy21007]

thanks norcal, I figured it was win win for everyone.

[MrDDT]

I am going to reply this once to you directly ddt.

I am not suggestion anyone grief others like you did with trees and paving over junk piles or destroying structures just because you could.

I was using those as examples of how even in a pve game where there was NO way to directly interact with other players, people would use those tactics to get relief from OTHER players preventing them from doing normal activities.

I am also very careful to say what I mean NOT what you want me to say. Of course some things have been bantered about as to what they MAY do in the future, but as it stands has any of it happened? Were safe zones removed? Has Jordi currently got plans to remove them? Does he want folks to have some form of safety if they do not want to participate in pvp? Come on.. you know the answers to all those questions. WE all do. Yelling loudly what you think does not make it so.

I am responding here to make sure that new players trying the game do not get the idea that you represent active players and certainly not any majority of players that actually play.

Back on Ignore you go.


We all know I dont represent the majority of people that play. I represent the majority of the people that were lied to, and have quit because of these changes.

The 200 people that play is very very few compared to the 1000s that left.

I dont see how promoting griefing is a good tactic for a game maker, but hey I guess being right all the time wont work there might be once Im wrong. Maybe this is that time.


Fatboy, what you are saying is what we have been asking for. Ive must have said that for at least 2 years.

[NorCalGooey]

Agreed DDT. PvPers have been talking about a compromise like that for a while.

Honestly though, the game just simply isn't ready for serious PvP or conquest. The devs know this. However, what we should know just by the devs actions, ist hat they ARE gearing up to add expansion totems eventually (they've worked on combat more than anything else since launch, besides maintenance) and probably a system along the lines of Fatboys idea/what PvPers have always wanted (besides the no chance in hell, full land capture everywhere, which i actually dont even want...so consider me not a hardcore pvper for not wanting to lose 100s of hours of invested time...i would never invest as much time into an expansion/land capture area...unless i was truly confident we could defend it)

[MrDDT]

Agreed DDT. PvPers have been talking about a compromise like that for a while.

Honestly though, the game just simply isn't ready for serious PvP or conquest. The devs know this. However, what we should know just by the devs actions, ist hat they ARE gearing up to add expansion totems eventually (they've worked on combat more than anything else since launch, besides maintenance) and probably a system along the lines of Fatboys idea/what PvPers have always wanted (besides the no chance in hell, full land capture everywhere, which i actually dont even want...so consider me not a hardcore pvper for not wanting to lose 100s of hours of invested time...i would never invest as much time into an expansion/land capture area...unless i was truly confident we could defend it)


After what Ive seen Jordi's plans change from what it was 2 years ago, to what we have now, I will wait and see what really happens. This game is going more carebear and more sim, less PVP and conflict.

All Im doing now is wait and see, and pointing out incorrect facts these carebears are posting. I love the fact that these carebears really like the idea of "non combat pvp" AKA griefing, and they believe its a good thing. That really just cracks me up.

[Mactavendish]

Nor sure who you are talking about.

Let me say for the record I do NOT agree with griefing tactics, nor do I do such things. Unlike you MrDDT I have never paved over junk piles, clear cut forests, verbally abused other player, or gotten banned form this game for such things like you have.

I guess I will have to continue to correct your mis-statements.

To be a carebear as it is defined, I would have to be against PvP play totally and ONLY want pve game play. I am for pvp, but as an adult can choose the types of pvp I enjoy and will take part in and those I will not. Either way, I am not a carebear nor have I ever suggested they game GO pve only. YOu keep replying as if what you say is true, but it is not.

I am all for contested totems and the ability for folks to CHOOSE to take part or not, with various rewards and penalties for that choice. You have NOT actually been wanting this until it was clear that's the direction they were going then you pretend to have always been in favor of this.

So far in this thread and any of the ones you are posting in currently, you are doing what you always do... Spin everyone's word to suit your desire, shoot you've even started spinning your own words. :)

It makes for entertaining reading I guess, but that's about it.

[Dubanka]

mac...talk about spinning :p

all ddt is saying, is the game was advertised as a ffa sandbox with safe zones that would disappear by design after prelude. It is clear now, that safe zones will never be taken away and that ffa is a joke since there is no reason or requirement to engage in it.

There is no spinning the part about griefing:

You may think this would get boring fast, but in actuality it lead to very creative ways of doing PvP even though the game did not allow players to even bump into eachother much less strike them with a weapon.

There was the typical train mobs onto your enemy, and the ever popular steal a mobs or steal a resources a player was gathering. But that is mere childsplay.
Later (today by the edit stamp) you made clear that you're nto advocating griefing, but the original post did kind of revel in it.

If DDT made that same statement, how if figured out how to train a bear blob on unsuspecting players, you would have a fit...

/popcorn

[Mactavendish]

mac...talk about spinning :p

all ddt is saying, is the game was advertised as a ffa sandbox with safe zones that would disappear by design after prelude. It is clear now, that safe zones will never be taken away and that ffa is a joke since there is no reason or requirement to engage in it.

There is no spinning the part about griefing:

Later (today by the edit stamp) you made clear that you're nto advocating griefing, but the original post did kind of revel in it.

If DDT made that same statement, how if figured out how to train a bear blob on unsuspecting players, you would have a fit...

/popcorn

I would not do any such thing. We all knew his "bug" of respawning in the spot he died that he used all the time. I never posted about that before. many of the thing he did were indeed direct acts of griefing other players, and he would just pass them off and allowed game mechanics or bug he was reporting. ( but still used to his advantage. )

It is interesting he has not denied any allegation against him, but continue to misrepresent with others say if it suits his needs. Please show evidence of me griefing anyone at any time.

Like he said the pvp here is pointless atm. I agree. And until we have a reason or needs to cause demand we will never have a viable economy. They are working towards all goals. I am not just waiting on the sidelines trolling the forums, I play every day and give feedback in as constructive a manner as possible. I happen to trust them to pull this off eventually. You have just stopped trusting that like ddt has.

Oh and before I forget... its a common tactic to take a single statement out of context to try and sway folks into believing what was said meant something the spinner wants to convey as if the speaker supports the spinners views...

That's what this post is for. View it as a rebuttle.

[Dubanka]

i honestly don't care :p

y'all are a couple of grumpy old men arguing if the blanket dark navy or black, while sitting in the dark.

you made a post, and folks took it a certain way, sometimes it's how you mean it, sometimes it's not.

/shrug

-sidenote...it is actually somewhat depressing that there isn't any new material worth arguing over...everything is the same rehashed crap...even the forums are becoming completely redundant and tired.

[MrDDT]

I would not do any such thing. We all knew his "bug" of respawning in the spot he died that he used all the time. I never posted about that before. many of the thing he did were indeed direct acts of griefing other players, and he would just pass them off and allowed game mechanics or bug he was reporting. ( but still used to his advantage. )

It is interesting he has not denied any allegation against him, but continue to misrepresent with others say if it suits his needs. Please show evidence of me griefing anyone at any time.

Like he said the pvp here is pointless atm. I agree. And until we have a reason or needs to cause demand we will never have a viable economy. They are working towards all goals. I am not just waiting on the sidelines trolling the forums, I play every day and give feedback in as constructive a manner as possible. I happen to trust them to pull this off eventually. You have just stopped trusting that like ddt has.

Oh and before I forget... its a common tactic to take a single statement out of context to try and sway folks into believing what was said meant something the spinner wants to convey as if the speaker supports the spinners views...

That's what this post is for. View it as a rebuttle.

Wow what a spin of things.

Ive never exploited in this game, the bug I had was not of my choice and I didnt gain anything from it, in fact I lost a lot from it. This bug you are talking about was reported right away, to guides, devs and using a reporting tool that they use. I was very upset about having this bug as I couldnt get home many times, and I was punished for it. I even asked once for a guide to send me home because I was very far away and didnt know where my totem was and they told me NO! How would you like to have that problem? You are an hour away from your totem and you cant get back to it, as a new player you keep re-spawning lost each time over and over.
You saying I used it all the time, I didnt "use" it all the time it happened every time I died not being used.

Have I griefed other players? Yes Im sure many would consider it griefing. Ive clear cut trees do to poor planning of how to skill up logging (which I reported and posted ideas on how to fix many times), I do believe in paving junk piles however, Ive not done much of it maybe like 20 meters of it, near one of the dev's areas NOT any other players. Ive killed many players and full looted them (which I dont consider griefing). However, these actions Ive done are not how I would like to PVP. Its forced due to carebear systems in place. Safe zones, able to run away no matter what, and the bad planning on how combat and combat tactics work. I would much rare have PVP with combat then using griefing tactics even though I dont use them much, Ive done it. Not really to grief people but to show a point.
I didnt say you were griefing others, I can say that you attacked me first when I did nothing to you. That's a fact, however, I did kill you because you were so bad at playing, then I looted all your items and deleted them. Because well I was bugged and being overweight an hour away from your home is sorta pointless, as are all the items are very low worth, even full sets of armor are not worth much at all in this game and even less now.

I'm glad you are on board with the broken economy and one of the major reasons why. Because PVP is pointless and value of items for doing things. Glad you finally see this, as me and others have been saying this for a long long time.
I trust that Xsyon will be a good game over time, however, I also believe carebears are warping the game into a direction of these types of tactics. Where PVPers will have no choice but to not play or end up using griefing tactics. Then carebears will cry about it even more and force a 2 server option as the only away around it, because they refuse to see things past the 5 mins of what they want. While people like me and Dub have been telling carebears for a long long time now they will get bored or that economy will not work right, and many other things with these tactics that carebears put in. Yet still Xsyon doesnt listen and they cave to the carebears. Now a year later, carebears are saying close to what PVPers have been saying the whole time. Odd, how did the PVPers foresee this?
Now carebears are trying to come up with other crappy systems, and PVPers are laughing at them.
These griefing tactics you post, its almost a joke. Its like a slap in the face while we are laughing at how bad carebears planning is.


I didnt take 1 line and spin it. You are doing that, you are also making personal attacks to take away from your poorly thought out ideas of how to grief people and then call it a "form of PVP".
You are a joke if you think that people cant see what you are asking for in your OP. You want to remove combat and make it worth less and allow people to do more griefing tactics under the veil of PVP. I can already see it later, people will start using these tactics and then, carebears and people like you will cry. "OMG look at all these pvpers just griefing people, see how bad PVP messes up the game" "We cant live with PVPers we need our own server" or other carebear comments on the topic of PVP and griefing.

[Mactavendish]

You again are Trying to paint me as a carebear that wants pvp gone and that I think combat needs to be taken out.

NONE of that is true.

I do NOT want combat gone, I have never cried over anything done to me, nor have I ever believed the that the game was perfect ot that it had no problems,

You act like this is a new idea on my part about the economy and how pvp is pointless, but from the very start I saw how combat in this game is pointless. I just chose to not whine about it and wait to see what they would do to fix it and what direction the game was going FIRST. Building and tribe activities hold my attention just fine for the time being.

THAT is the reason I have never bothered to participate. I didn't even defend myself when you killed me that time because why bother? What did you really do to me?

You basically admit the things you have done are considered by most as griefing. You won't find anyone in game that feels that way about me friend.

And again just to be clear, I never have gotten on board your train of thought or your point of view... I have had my own train to drive thank you very much, and can express my own thoughts much better than you can express them. :)

I think this thread is done. ( Hope they lock it soon )

[MrDDT]

Im not trying to twist anything.

If you see things in my post that you dont like, well sorry but they are just simply the facts.

If you want to link yourself with being a carebear, that's all you. I didnt say that, I do say that some of the things you say are carebear.

Like your OP.

My actions in game Ive done for many reasons none have been for griefing. Some people consider them griefing, I do not, nor did I want them to be considered griefing.

Heck attacking people in game can be considered griefing by many people. Some people think I'm a griefer because of these actions.

I'm also sure if I tried really hard I could search the forums and link posts of where you were posting statements of how you want to limit some of the open PVP ideas. But I dont really care enough to do all that work.

[Mactavendish]

Well...

Still here and seems we are getting closer to a patch!

Hope any new players that see these threads realize that this game is still going and that eventually will get there.

[MrDDT]

Well...

Still here and seems we are getting closer to a patch!

Hope any new players that see these threads realize that this game is still going and that eventually will get there.


There has been lots of combat patches. But combat still is broken.

[Mactavendish]

I'm curious MrDDT...

Have I ever said that combat was working correctly? So, I have to conclude one of two reasons for you posting in this thread...

1. You feel that any positive statement about Xsyon, distracts attention away from your crusade about combat and it needing to be fix ASAP before "they kill the game".

2. You some how don't get that the people that actually play the game are more interested in other changes now and often talk in global about how they wish they would quit messing around with combat and do other things NOW to help retain those that play the game.

Oh, and before you spout off about all the "1000's" you believe quit the game due to combat issues, I must ask you, if this game is indeed changing away from what you think it should be, why oh why are you still trying to ride that dead horse?

[MrDDT]

I'm curious MrDDT...

Have I ever said that combat was working correctly? So, I have to conclude one of two reasons for you posting in this thread...

1. You feel that any positive statement about Xsyon, distracts attention away from your crusade about combat and it needing to be fix ASAP before "they kill the game".

2. You some how don't get that the people that actually play the game are more interested in other changes now and often talk in global about how they wish they would quit messing around with combat and do other things NOW to help retain those that play the game.

Oh, and before you spout off about all the "1000's" you believe quit the game due to combat issues, I must ask you, if this game is indeed changing away from what you think it should be, why oh why are you still trying to ride that dead horse?

When you say "often" talk about it in global, do you mean out of the 100 or so people that log in and play that they are not caring about the combat system? Well duh? Who is going to play a game that loves combat, with it broken so bad that its not fun at all?
It would be like saying "Well the people that are left after a baseball game is over how they dont even want to go back home". Try talking to the people that have bought the game and are WAITING and WAITING and WAITING for combat to get better because they bought it for that reason.

The carebears have already killed the game, why do you think its in the state its in? Its just like this comment here. You are trying to act like because you stayed playing and a few others have stayed playing that now no one wants PVP or combat because all the people "playing" the game dont care for it.

You ask me why Im still here to try to get the game to go back to the way it was said to be? Well because I bought the game and I believe in the dream of it being good. Have I not said that before?

What I also think is funny is that you telling me that all these people are upset they are working on combat so much, then also saying how combat people are bad for asking for it. HAHA hypocritical much???
The devs want combat working, and you are here asking why Im here still? It would be like me asking you why are you still here when they are working on something you dont believe is needed?

You keep starting threads that lead back to you whining about the devs in a "Oh I love this game buttttttt" kind of way. When others do it, we are beating a dead horse. Dont get upset when people point out your lies and show you the true facts.

The game has issues, everyone can see that but some of the fanboi's. Many of the fanboi's can even see the game has major issues. However, I do believe like many others the game will get better. Question is how much better, and when?

[Mactavendish]

Nope.

I'm saying that YOU have a completely one sided view. I have never said that combat is bad nor have I ever said it should be removed. You keep getting me confused with others.

At the moment combat is mostly broken. Yes you can fight others and animals, but it takes forever, you have to be behind a player to get enough damage to be successful and all a player really needs to do is have a bit of armor and face their opponent and stalemate.

Many other things in the game are working and are quite enjoyable to play. You have done a ton of crafting and yet never comment on that side. The only thing you mention is combat as if it is the entire game. I don't think even those that have left thought that.

It is true that I don't care for your style of play, but it is allowed and I just have to deal with it don't I. As time progresses and Jordi and crew introduce contested areas leaving those that wish to take part the ability to do it, will that be enough to hold your attention? If you never get sieges or the option to destroy other peoples hard work, will this still be the game for you?

I will let you have the final say on all this as I just don't care to bicker with you any longer. Besides it's seems to be just me and you arguing now anyway ... I'm off to play the game.

[MrDDT]

Nope.

I'm saying that YOU have a completely one sided view. I have never said that combat is bad nor have I ever said it should be removed. You keep getting me confused with others.

At the moment combat is mostly broken. Yes you can fight others and animals, but it takes forever, you have to be behind a player to get enough damage to be successful and all a player really needs to do is have a bit of armor and face their opponent and stalemate.

Many other things in the game are working and are quite enjoyable to play. You have done a ton of crafting and yet never comment on that side. The only thing you mention is combat as if it is the entire game. I don't think even those that have left thought that.

It is true that I don't care for your style of play, but it is allowed and I just have to deal with it don't I. As time progresses and Jordi and crew introduce contested areas leaving those that wish to take part the ability to do it, will that be enough to hold your attention? If you never get sieges or the option to destroy other peoples hard work, will this still be the game for you?

I will let you have the final say on all this as I just don't care to bicker with you any longer. Besides it's seems to be just me and you arguing now anyway ... I'm off to play the game.


If you think I never talk about crafting you should read my posts a bit better.

I wish others could just be off to play the game but sadly its still only a shell of what they said it was. Now most of the people that bought the game with the "features" they listed are likely not even looking at this game anymore.

[Trenchfoot]

What the game lacks currently is a grand adventure. It's a broad term that covers many ideas (including combat/warfare), but this is mainly the problem I have with the game.

WURM is only half the game this one is graphically, but it is twice the game this one is when it comes to immersing you in a grand adventure. To compound that statement, WURMs combat is crap. Yet they still manage to make the game fun (mostly because of player freedom).

The way I see it... One side wants to make the game so people 'CANNOT' do certain things. The other side wants to make it so people 'WILL NOT' do certain things.

'Cannot' is better off with combat/warfare being removed or being purely for show. In this view, combat/warfare 'cannot' be used to shape the world (you can't even fight by 'not fighting'). 'Cannot' is also restricted in the sense that everyone is 'by force' equal. Because you 'cannot' do anything to offset the haves and the have-nots, everyone must be a have and therefore everything they have is about as useful as what everyone else has.

It's almost like this game has gone hippy. Which I admit may be a little strong, but it sure is giving me that vibe sunshine.

To create an environment of grand adventure, you must have 'real/not by mutual agreement/unwanted' opposition. And the very best opposition that exists in MMO land, is another human mind. Being opposed by a computer is nothing in comparison. It's the difference between chocolate flavoring and real chocolate.

There is no need for perseverance without setbacks. No need to improve, no need to negotiate, no need to want, no need to have, no need to risk it all in defense of what you believe, and therefore no need to take a stand on principle. No need to develop your own culture, society, politics, develop a sense of tribal identity (other than the name you type in or the colors you choose). When you cannot get knocked down there is no need to get back up and try again.

Currently, there is only one kind of life to lead in this game. It's the same as everyone else. Until I can live out the life that I choose in a grand 'bigger than the individual/myself' adventure, this game just won't be fun for me.

What does bigger than the individual mean? It means being subject to the way my neighbors choose to shape the world, and at the same time still having a choice of my own to endeavor to un-shape what they have done or to accept it and join their effort.

[Dubanka]

Besides it's seems to be just me and you arguing now anyway

kinda sad actually.

I don't even care enough to counter the most ridiculous of your conclusions ;)

/sniff.

[MrDDT]

kinda sad actually.

I don't even care enough to counter the most ridiculous of your conclusions ;)

/sniff.

I was trying to make this point really.

All the people that bought the game based on the promise of combat, and the way the game were to play in that sense. They dont even bother anymore to post, play, or check in on the game for the most part. Its sad, because I really dont see the game getting better in that sense either. I think it might even be better off to ignore combat and start focusing on things that the current 100 or so people playing care about. Things like, hair color, able to wear lipstick, and building more buildings for the lol's.

[NorCalGooey]

Nah DDT, they should just try and add contested areas ASAP and breathe some life back into this game.

I feel like they have been working on combat revamps since like a month after launch....

They sure care about combat A LOT for not caring about PvP...why can't Jordi just come forth and announce that contested territories will be added in when the game is more polished and playable? Honestly, that's what I think he's holding out for. I can't imagine his original intent was to create a crafting simulator for 100 people.

But even worse would be bringing in the mad rush of players and word of mouth advertisement from contested territories being added, when the game still has many exploits and bugs and balance issues and a broken combat system.

So yes, perhaps once the game plays smoother and is balanced contested territories SHOULD be added. I say should because no one knows what Jordi wants. Perhaps i'll ask in the weekly questions...even though both you and Mac already asked for a detailed vision for the game

[Saorlan]

Guys you really need to stop these forums turning into a troll pit for MrDdt and his enemies. Every time that I very rarely log in it is a constant fight between DDT and others.

[Mactavendish]

You are absolutely correct.

Since we cannot keep ddt from posting in ANY thread, the only way I can see that will work is to just not post anymore.

If for instance I post a thread about how much fun Building is, I cannot control whether he will post in it or not nor can I predict the type of post he will make.

I can of course not direct anything at all towards him but so far that has not prevented any trolling. If a thread gets hijacked or derailed, should we not try and get it back on track?

What ways would you suggest? How can we keep posting and maybe bring some life to the forums, and at the same time keep ddt and crew from trolling?

[Jadzia]

You are absolutely correct.

Since we cannot keep ddt from posting in ANY thread, the only way I can see that will work is to just not post anymore.

If for instance I post a thread about how much fun Building is, I cannot control whether he will post in it or not nor can I predict the type of post he will make.

I can of course not direct anything at all towards him but so far that has not prevented any trolling. If a thread gets hijacked or derailed, should we not try and get it back on track?

What ways would you suggest? How can we keep posting and maybe bring some life to the forums, and at the same time keep ddt and crew from trolling?

The only way I can think of is if all of us agree to add DDT to ignore. That way he can talk to himself only, and won't mess up others' conversation :)

[MrDDT]

You are absolutely correct.

Since we cannot keep ddt from posting in ANY thread, the only way I can see that will work is to just not post anymore.

If for instance I post a thread about how much fun Building is, I cannot control whether he will post in it or not nor can I predict the type of post he will make.

I can of course not direct anything at all towards him but so far that has not prevented any trolling. If a thread gets hijacked or derailed, should we not try and get it back on track?

What ways would you suggest? How can we keep posting and maybe bring some life to the forums, and at the same time keep ddt and crew from trolling?

Once combat is fixed and not broken, I doubt you will see me posting on it save for balancing issues. Right now we cant even get to the balancing issues because full systems are broken.

Please show me some posts where Im trolling, so I can edit them so they are not. Because, from what I understand I dont troll. You on the other hand I cant say the same. Would you like me to show you some posts where you are? Or do you even care?


The only way I can think of is if all of us agree to add DDT to ignore. That way he can talk to himself only, and won't mess up others' conversation :)


Here is a clear trolling post. Yet nothing will ever be done about these type of posts. I cant say why or I will likely get banned.

[Willowhawk]

The only way I can think of is if all of us agree to add DDT to ignore. That way he can talk to himself only, and won't mess up others' conversation :)
Works for me, Done!

[Jadzia]

Works for me, Done!

Same here :)

[Hodo]

Its easy to ignore MrDDT... just ask him..

Wait you arent a subscriber are you son?

The fact is there is more to PVP than just player vs player, but the online gaming community is made up of a bunch of children not to much unlike MrDDT. They only know a few things, how to troll, and be a bad gamer.

[Dubanka]

Guys you really need to stop these forums turning into a troll pit for MrDdt and his enemies. Every time that I very rarely log in it is a constant fight between DDT and others.

it's mac vs. ddt. there aren't 'others'.

and by you picking a side and annointing ddt the troll and mac the victim is quite disengenuous - ddt has a position. those who oppose ddt have a position. to call one a troll but not the other is quite comical. The non-ddt position is winning (you should be happy!!), the game is losing. enjoy the victory.

[NorCalGooey]

the hypocrisy here is hilarious

[Mactavendish]

please explain ... who exactly are you saying is a hypocrite?

If you mean me, please show where I have changed my view from one side to the other.

[MrDDT]

Its easy to ignore MrDDT... just ask him..

Wait you arent a subscriber are you son?

The fact is there is more to PVP than just player vs player, but the online gaming community is made up of a bunch of children not to much unlike MrDDT. They only know a few things, how to troll, and be a bad gamer.

I have no idea what you are talking here. I am a subscriber on a few accounts.

Is this account one? No. I do play just about everyday too. I dont know what the deal is with personal attacks on these forums, but they love to just focus on the person instead of the problem. Game is doing poorly, and isnt picking up many people. Why is that? Instead of trying to figure out what may or many not upset someone, focus your thoughts on the game and how to make it better.

I dont troll, and if you think Im a bad gamer that's even more a of a joke. As Ive yet to lose a PVP event in the game.

I dont need to gloat about it, its simply a fact. It doesnt even take much skill to play this game. Right now PVP is a joke, even after the patch unless you love 15min fights where at any point in time someone can walk (yes walk) away without fear. Then good luck looting someone if you did happen to kill them due to the still problems with looting rights and other issues.


Is PVP more than just Player vs Player? No its not. Hence the PVP. PVP stands for PLAYER VS PLAYER. Its no more no less. Its equal.

[Yuyito]

The Xsyon forums are great for a laugh and you people are hilarious! News flash folks, the forums are dead because hardly anyone really plays this game anymore. It is dead, fini; nothing more than a simple sandbox for a very small niche...

And yes Mac (and the rest), you are a hypocrite. If you call what DDT does as trolling, then the same can be said about you. Just because you don't agree with his viewpoint doesn't make him any more a hypocrite than you.

But hey, what do I care? Please continue with the inane dribble on the forums; it is always good for a yuck or two at work!

[NorCalGooey]

please explain ... who exactly are you saying is a hypocrite?

If you mean me, please show where I have changed my view from one side to the other.

Everyone....

[Hodo]

I have no idea what you are talking here. I am a subscriber on a few accounts.

Is this account one? No. I do play just about everyday too. I dont know what the deal is with personal attacks on these forums, but they love to just focus on the person instead of the problem. Game is doing poorly, and isnt picking up many people. Why is that? Instead of trying to figure out what may or many not upset someone, focus your thoughts on the game and how to make it better.

I dont troll, and if you think Im a bad gamer that's even more a of a joke. As Ive yet to lose a PVP event in the game.



You were almost sounding sensible till this last part. Where the bad gamer and child in you popped out. Oh well, so much for your maturity.

You wouldnt know what a bad gamer is if it fell out the sky, kicked off its thong, sat on your face and wiggled.

Just because you can win in PvP in a game that is a quarter of a percent of the PvP gaming market, makes you a good gamer, o'rly? A good gamer knows there is more to a game that just being the best at one thing in a game. Its about being the best in the community, not as a combatant, or a troll, but being the best in the overall players eyes. The person everyone can turn to and say, "Hey, he knows about everything in the game, he is good at it, and the developer actually respects him, along with his fellow players." Oh shzinit I said it... respect by your fellow players.

Some of the best sports athletes in history, Muhammad Ali, Walter Payton, Joe Montana, Babe Ruth, Dale Earnhardt, Richard Petty, Ayrton Senna, and Wayne Gretzsky. They all are or were all, the greatest athletes in their sports, they not only were GREAT in their sports, they were GREAT off the fields of play, or tracks in some cases. They were respected for their knowledge of their sport, in ALL areas, not just ONE part, they were respected long after they left the sport for their exploits OUT of the game.

So if you were to compare yourself to those people, how do you measure up? Not very good huh?

[AndyI]

First you make personal attacks when things dont work out for you.

rofl, coming from the person who labels anyone who disagrees with him as a fanboi or carebear!

Hodo, I agree, respect is much more rewarding. Those harping on about the issues should just be a little more mature and take a break till a few more patches are out. Instead some spend an eternity on here posting what are not constructive posts despite claims they are, in response to virtually every thread. Me, I've decided to just check back every month or so now with the odd log in to the game and read the odd thread. I think if more of the vociferous bored or frustrated players did the same, these forums would be much more friendly and polite. One-up-manship on a forum is laughable. And once again as Hodo said, only respect really matters and that's earned.

That's my quota for the month. I look forward to a second good patch in a couple of weeks time as the devs have stated. Busy with work and a business trip till then anyway. Take care all.

[Mactavendish]

Finally 2 players that get it!

Norcal... to be a hypocrite, I would have to say something is bad/good and then act in the opposite way.

Please show where I have ever done that.

I too think that DDT is a hypocrite, because he claims to be helping the game, all the while tearing it down on the forums, the one place a potential player will go to research the game he wants to try.

There are a lot of people still playing, I talk to them every day. In all that I do in game I work hard to develop respect between players. Sure there are some that don't like me or my style, and some that may bother me. But I will still talk with as much respect to them as I can.

I only have 1 ( one ) player ignored for his actions... ddt. I think if you check around you will find a good many also have him ignored.

[NorCalGooey]

You are a hypocrite because you call him a troll, when you have done trollish posts. And visa versa.

That's why I thought both of you were being hypocritical.

[MrDDT]

You were almost sounding sensible till this last part. Where the bad gamer and child in you popped out. Oh well, so much for your maturity.

You wouldnt know what a bad gamer is if it fell out the sky, kicked off its thong, sat on your face and wiggled.

Just because you can win in PvP in a game that is a quarter of a percent of the PvP gaming market, makes you a good gamer, o'rly? A good gamer knows there is more to a game that just being the best at one thing in a game. Its about being the best in the community, not as a combatant, or a troll, but being the best in the overall players eyes. The person everyone can turn to and say, "Hey, he knows about everything in the game, he is good at it, and the developer actually respects him, along with his fellow players." Oh shzinit I said it... respect by your fellow players.

Some of the best sports athletes in history, Muhammad Ali, Walter Payton, Joe Montana, Babe Ruth, Dale Earnhardt, Richard Petty, Ayrton Senna, and Wayne Gretzsky. They all are or were all, the greatest athletes in their sports, they not only were GREAT in their sports, they were GREAT off the fields of play, or tracks in some cases. They were respected for their knowledge of their sport, in ALL areas, not just ONE part, they were respected long after they left the sport for their exploits OUT of the game.

So if you were to compare yourself to those people, how do you measure up? Not very good huh?

Where you fail to understand is that, one cant be bad if they are good.
Dont confuse great with good. Bad is less than good. Great is better than good.
If Im good at killing people, and skilling up in a game, and knowing a lot about the game. How can I be bad? You have yet to point out how I'm a bad gamer. Plus you are also limiting your comments from Xsyon. Should I pull other games into it also?

My point is that, he making personal attacks, not focusing on the topic.

If I compare anyone up to those people they wouldnt be very good either, as those people were the best of the best greatest of all times (according to you, I dont agree but Im using your own standards).

I wouldnt talk about someone being a "good" or "bad" gamer, when I ranking it based on information outside of the game. I look at people with the best stats of how they played if they are "good" or "bad" no matter how nice someone is off the field, having a 0 and 100000 record would still make them bad at that sport or gaming. They could be the nicest or even most respected for other things, but gaming well wouldnt be it.



Finally 2 players that get it!

Norcal... to be a hypocrite, I would have to say something is bad/good and then act in the opposite way.

Please show where I have ever done that.

I too think that DDT is a hypocrite, because he claims to be helping the game, all the while tearing it down on the forums, the one place a potential player will go to research the game he wants to try.

There are a lot of people still playing, I talk to them every day. In all that I do in game I work hard to develop respect between players. Sure there are some that don't like me or my style, and some that may bother me. But I will still talk with as much respect to them as I can.

I only have 1 ( one ) player ignored for his actions... ddt. I think if you check around you will find a good many also have him ignored.


This hits home back on the topic too.

Again you are focusing on the wrong parts of what makes PVP fun for players. Its not about this forum warrior bit you try to do, its the thrill of the fight, and its rewards.

I'm sure you and many other carebears have me on ignore. You dont want to hear what I have to say, because you dont preform at the top level. While players that want exp, and learn from good players (Many PVP types) cant ignore people with good advice and common sense. There are few of these types of players left. As the carebears have warped the game so PVPers cant thrive here. So I wouldnt doubt that many cant stand the way I say things or do things.

Many players have ignored me simply for killing them. People have different views on what they can or cant take. I have thick skin so I can take a lot, one reason its like that is because I can also learn a lot from that.

About players helping the game or not. You have a different way on how to do that. I prefer to tell the people to truth and let them choose to play or not rather than lie or mislead them into playing and maybe they stick around a week. I believe if you keep that type of tricking people up, people will start to post about how its a scam more and more and it will instead of being sorta on the back burner, it will come to the forefront. People already say that and believe it, but it could be much worse.

About you being a hypocrite is your OP here on how pretty much you prefer the people to exploit the systems of PVP to have what you call "PVP".

[Mactavendish]

Tell you what. I will make you a proposition...

I will no longer comment on MrDDT's posts nor post in them as a show of respect for others opinions, provided that he does likewise with posts I make.

I will no longer point out anything about ddt, nor comment on his playstyle... IF he can do the same and actually agrees here on the forums.

What is really sad, is that some of what he has said I can agree with.

Like the fact that pvp has no purpose, that things are too easy, resources too common, and there is no reason to do much of anything here except for the fun of doing it.

He see's me as a threat to his agenda, and I see him a threat to the game.
We both are extremely stubborn when it comes to our views. But I will say honestly, that if he stopped spinning my words to match his agenda, I would pay no attention to his comments at all.

Here are some facts that we both agree on...

The game needs work... lots of it.
Many people that played this game have left. ( the why of it is a bone of contention between him and I )
Development is extremely slow.
Most people have lost their patience for this game.

I am willing to try and get along with you. But I actually don't believe you want that.

These forums have become useless anyway haven't they?

[MrDDT]

To sum it up.

No.

I make my comments not because I'm trying to piss you off, I understand you dont like some of the facts and truths I'm saying. Whether you agree to what I say or not makes no difference to me. Most of what I say is simply a fact, not even an opinion. I do make opinions on here also, which I try to explain why I have that opinion.


Tell you what. I will make you a proposition...

Here are some facts that we both agree on...

The game needs work... lots of it.
Many people that played this game have left. ( the why of it is a bone of contention between him and I )
Development is extremely slow.
Most people have lost their patience for this game.

I am willing to try and get along with you. But I actually don't believe you want that.


I agree to all those things, but there are many other reasons you wont admit to, which is simply sad because they are very clear.
You paint a wide brush with those comments, and really its more in details of why.

You think I have an agenda but really all it is, is me wanting to play a great game and Im putting effort to making it great. I happen to believe that many others want a game close to what I describe as Ive described it many times and had many people say it.

You think I dont get along with you because of a mishap or because Im stubborn or something (I really dont know why you believe that), but the truth is I dont get along with people that refuse to look at the data and admit what its telling them.

You have done that here a little only because of how wide you painted it. " The game needs work lots of it" duh, that's a no brainer with the less than 150 people playing actively. Those types of comments are just to wide to even start hammering. You need to start looking at the whys and the details. Yet, when people show you cause and effect of it you wont agree. No matter what data they bring you, you dont.

With your OP here, its clear you have no idea what PVPers want, nor most of the players that are looking to play this game. Exploiting the PVP system isnt what anyone (with few exceptions) wants. Your "no combat PVP" is so much of a joke I cant believe you can even think you have a stance on it. When I first read it I thought you were joking.

I dont believe the forums are useless, just of less use. Mostly because there isnt even 1000 active accounts on it. Very sad.

[Hodo]

MrDDT,

If I were making a personal attack you would know it. I am being, what is the word, terse or blunt.

I am not one to pull punches, if I see a turd I will call it a turd. I wont polish it and call it a diamond.

On Macs post.

He is right, development is slow, the game does have a ALONG way to go. And as much as I want it, this game still isnt Roma Victor. Which oddly enough was in the top 3 sandbox games I have ever played.

[fatboy21007]

hey DDT, thats your opinion, just like everyone else posted here in the thread has had their own opnions, However claiming that you know that data and whats needs to be done is just like me saying i know tonights lottery numbers that will win me the 32489237498234 amound of money. Stop acting like you can fix this game when you can't, You want he game to YOUR standards and only a select few go along with ya. Only 1 thing you ever said is true, development is slow and game has a good ways to go, but latley that patchs have been improving and the game is slowly. These things take time. Personally im glad Xsyon isnt listening to everyone, is the players who actually kill games, and yes ddt your one ofem. Me im gonna sit back an watch it grow, yea im loging in atm, but thats because im waiting on something and i still help test the game when i can. So please for the love of god, pull that i know it all stick out your ass, and learn how to accept others opinions along with your own and find a compromise in the middle, or just stay away.

[Hodo]

hey DDT, thats your opinion, just like everyone else posted here in the thread has had their own opnions, However claiming that you know that data and whats needs to be done is just like me saying i know tonights lottery numbers that will win me the 32489237498234 amound of money. Stop acting like you can fix this game when you can't, You want he game to YOUR standards and only a select few go along with ya. Only 1 thing you ever said is true, development is slow and game has a good ways to go, but latley that patchs have been improving and the game is slowly. These things take time. Personally im glad Xsyon isnt listening to everyone, is the players who actually kill games, and yes ddt your one ofem. Me im gonna sit back an watch it grow, yea im loging in atm, but thats because im waiting on something and i still help test the game when i can. So please for the love of god, pull that i know it all stick out your ass, and learn how to accept others opinions along with your own and find a compromise in the middle, or just stay away.

Oh you must have read the old Roma Victor forums with MrDDT.

[fatboy21007]

never seen those fourms Hodo

[Hodo]

never seen those fourms Hodo

Then you missed out on the early days of MrDDT. He did much fail trolling there.