Rants and raves

[krimara]

For those of us that really just want to rant and rave, why not do it in a thread made for it instead of hi-jacking other's threads?


I do know they claim to be one, yet never do. But yes I know they think they are.

Think they are, good choice of words. You claim they aren't a PvP tribe? In a game that many people, including yourself have said that PvP is broken and doesn't have a point, how then would one be considered a "PvP tribe" if not by claiming that is their intention?

[MrDDT]

So my tribe is a good tribe, because the good vs evil system is broken? That makes no sense.

If you were a PVP your actions would show it, yet your actions dont. Thus you are a crafting tribe. When you do PVP let me know, then maybe I will change my statement. Facts are facts, you cant get around that. PVP tribes PVP. Non PVP tribes dont. Thus because you dont PVP, you are a NON PVP tribe. You can claim all you want you are, but facts show otherwise.

Lesson over.

P.S. About Hi-Jacking a tread, I was on topic, you were not.

[inhabit]

Dam guys, we must have an infiltrator, DDT seems to know so much facts about our tribe and what we are working towards.
Im gonna quit and watch from the sidelines now and wait on my free time like others have, cos we really need a rethink we have been exposed. XD

[China]

So my tribe is a good tribe, because the good vs evil system is broken? That makes no sense.

If you were a PVP your actions would show it, yet your actions dont. Thus you are a crafting tribe. When you do PVP let me know, then maybe I will change my statement. Facts are facts, you cant get around that. PVP tribes PVP. Non PVP tribes dont. Thus because you dont PVP, you are a NON PVP tribe. You can claim all you want you are, but facts show otherwise.

Lesson over.

P.S. About Hi-Jacking a tread, I was on topic, you were not.

We are mercenaries. Here is the wiki definition for you:

A mercenary, also known as a professional soldier, soldier of fortune, swashbuckler, private military contractor, or freelancer, is a person who takes part in an armed conflict who is not a national or a party to the conflict and is "motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party".

We see no need to sh**t in our own sandbox. That is very counter-productive, although I see others who have and do that, much to their detriment. That seems to be your definition of PVP. It has not paid well for them. You are not privy to the XM's role/plans/process & progress, but believe me every member of our tribe is aware and you will never be a part of that.

It seems to me that "Prelude" and its meaning sometimes eludes you, or at the least it doesn't conincide with what the XM believes it to be. So let it rest. I refuse to defend to you or anyone else ingame or playing the "forum game" what the Xsyon Mercenaries plans or game style is. It's not your business, and we have no desire to share that business with you.

And as you say - "Lesson Over".

China

Added after 18 minutes:


Dam guys, we must have an infiltrator, DDT seems to know so much facts about our tribe and what we are working towards.
Im gonna quit and watch from the sidelines now and wait on my free time like others have, cos we really need a rethink we have been exposed. XD

Hahaha. Sneaky bastard that infiltrator.

China

[MrDDT]

So your name has merc in it, yet you still dont PVP. How does that make you a PVP tribe?

If you dont PVP, you are not a PVP tribe, its pretty simple to understand. Keep up the good work, work those crafting skills and play your fighting with your buddies. While the PVP tribes are fighting, you are crafting up booties.

[krimara]

So your name has merc in it, yet you still dont PVP. How does that make you a PVP tribe?

If you dont PVP, you are not a PVP tribe, its pretty simple to understand. Keep up the good work, work those crafting skills and play your fighting with your buddies. While the PVP tribes are fighting, you are crafting up booties.

Well DDT I'm sorry that we don't live up to your standards of what a PvP tribe should be like. I can say we will stand by our claim of being a PvP tribe.

On a side note, I didn't know that "booties" were in game. What crafting skill did you find them under, also how long did you have to grind it to get them?

[MrDDT]

Well DDT I'm sorry that we don't live up to your standards of what a PvP tribe should be like. I can say we will stand by our claim of being a PvP tribe.

On a side note, I didn't know that "booties" were in game. What crafting skill did you find them under, also how long did you have to grind it to get them?

It's not my standard, its English standards.

You cant be something when you are not. Its just fact.
PVP tribes PVP. If they don't PVP, then they are not PVP tribes.

Calling yourself something doesnt make it true. I know you might think that, but its not how it works.

It would be like calling yourself a Good tribe, yet you do Evil things. Makes no sense.

[NorCalGooey]

Right, by your logic DDTs tribe is good and not evil.

[fatboy21007]

here i can easily fix all the bickering, THEIR IS NO PVP IN XSYON AT ALL, THE REQUIRES ACTUALY ACTIVE PLAYERS, the mercs choose to craft for a few days then go find OTHER active pvpers, then that is still pvp, Truth is their is barely any1 active in xsyon atm, Also ddt being a pvp tribe does not requires 24/7 mass killing, thats not pvp at all, thats just being a griefer, Pvpers craft and pvp, and they do both daily or every few days, last time i checked only eve is the game with actualy all day everyday pvpers because they get kills daily, but even then they have to stop and do sum pve to keep up their pvp habits. So in the end, i still say ya cant pvp something that isnt their. Now if you feel yours a hardcore pvper, then take your happy ass on up to their land and pvp everyday, if not accept pvp is not and never has been in any game a 24/7 thing, Also your missing a population to even consider a pvp subject... :-P

[MrDDT]

If I go on their land, is that really PVP?
I cant even fight back.

I'm not saying they can't PVP they said they can't (or you are someone is but its not me).
I PVP just about everyday, yes I have issues but I do it. But my point is that it doesn't matter what you call yourself, if you don't PVP you are not a PVP tribe its a simple fact. If you say they PVP that's another story.

PVP doesnt = Griefer just FYI. So Im not sure why you bringing that up. PVP has to do with fighting other players, pitting your skills vs theirs.

[Liquidblade]

If I go on their land, is that really PVP?
I cant even fight back.

I'm not saying they can't PVP they said they can't (or you are someone is but its not me).
I PVP just about everyday, yes I have issues but I do it. But my point is that it doesn't matter what you call yourself, if you don't PVP you are not a PVP tribe its a simple fact. If you say they PVP that's another story.

PVP doesnt = Griefer just FYI. So Im not sure why you bringing that up. PVP has to do with fighting other players, pitting your skills vs theirs.

Are you saying that they dont Pvp as in go kill people and take their stuff? most of us dont do that right now because of the lack of players, we do however fight each-other to train or see where we are at with our skills. Mercs have come over to Legion and vice versa (closest tribe to us, 3 zones) to do that, other than that there is not many people out there for them to fight with for items to trade with others. not sure what the point of this thread is, a bit absurd if you ask me.

[krimara]

If I go on their land, is that really PVP?
I cant even fight back.

1.I'm not saying they can't PVP they said they can't (or you are someone is but its not me).
I PVP just about everyday, yes I have issues but I do it. But my point is that it doesn't matter what you call yourself, if you don't PVP you are not a PVP tribe its a simple fact. 2.If you say they PVP that's another story.

PVP doesnt = Griefer just FYI. So Im not sure why you bringing that up. PVP has to do with fighting other players, pitting your skills vs theirs.


3.Are you saying that they dont Pvp as in go kill people and take their stuff? most of us dont do that right now because of the lack of players, we do however fight each-other to train or see where we are at with our skills. Mercs have come over to Legion and vice versa (closest tribe to us, 3 zones) to do that, other than that there is not many people out there for them to fight with for items to trade with others. not sure what the point of this thread is, a bit absurd if you ask me.

1.I've never seen anyone say we can't PvP, post a link to the thread or edit your statement.

2.If someone else says we PvP it's believable?

3.Well now you've gone and done it, you've told him that we do go out and fight people. I was wanting to see how long he would fight this point without any proof or evidence supporting his claim to knowing our tribes actions.

[MrDDT]

1.I've never seen anyone say we can't PvP, post a link to the thread or edit your statement.

2.If someone else says we PvP it's believable?

3.Well now you've gone and done it, you've told him that we do go out and fight people. I was wanting to see how long he would fight this point without any proof or evidence supporting his claim to knowing our tribes actions.

Hey more power to you if you guys are PVPing (Training with another tribe yeah that must feel good for PVP huh?).

I guess its PVP even when its training haha (If you go by the book). Good job you proven you are a PVP tribe, keep on training while other PVP tribes are doing what they call PVP.

Still doesn't disprove my point that calling yourself something doesn't make it true. Which you nor China seem to understand.

[fatboy21007]

hey numbnuts (DDT) i said pvp 24/7 is griefing, which by all game stands can be if its the same people your killing :-P.

[MrDDT]

hey numbnuts (DDT) i said pvp 24/7 is griefing, which by all game stands can be if its the same people your killing :-P.

PVP 24/7 isnt griefing.
Griefing has more to do than with how much you PVP. Fact PVP doesnt even factor into griefing. People grief all the time without ever PVPing. Problem is a lot of people out there (like you) link PVP with griefing.

People PVP in counterstrike everyday all the time, is that non stop griefing game? Understanding what terms mean helps.

I guess someone could say they are a PVP tribe when all they do is duels, that's true I guess. I don't think that's what anyone thinks but hey by the book, I guess its true.

When I hear "PVP tribe" I think of people that are out there, attacking other people to kill them. Not sparing in a bit, or love taps or something. Or missing a bear in your PVE adventure and hitting your friend. I wouldnt call that "PVP" nor would I call that a PVP tribe.

But hey you say and Liquid say they do duels, and kill people that cant fight back on their lands. I guess its PVP.

[krimara]

DDT you almost come across as finally understanding that not everyone thinks like you do. Then you make a comment like that at the end. Duels aren't the only form of PvP we do, that was though the only example given to you. Killing people on our tribal land so we aren't risking anything? No one has said that, only you.

What I do hear from you though it's not griefing, though it's getting close, heading out to kill anyone you come across really isn't that great. Finding someone with equal or superior skill though and fighting them, yeah good bit of fun. Running down new players and crafters while they try to flee...Not that appealing.

[Liquidblade]

DDT I am not sure, but I think you are thinking with the wrong side of the brain. Their hands are pretty much tied at the moment due to the lack of players, so lets say that they came over and started pounding on the first person they saw, to take uhmmm lets say dirt, well they would have to sell the dirt back to the same person...there is no point on them going pvp till more people come. But I guess you have to keep us all entertained? How about you start ganking on everyone you see? perhaps you could give us all a reason to fight ya?

[MrDDT]

DDT I am not sure, but I think you are thinking with the wrong side of the brain. Their hands are pretty much tied at the moment due to the lack of players, so lets say that they came over and started pounding on the first person they saw, to take uhmmm lets say dirt, well they would have to sell the dirt back to the same person...there is no point on them going pvp till more people come. But I guess you have to keep us all entertained? How about you start ganking on everyone you see? perhaps you could give us all a reason to fight ya?


Calling yourself a PVP tribe when you dont PVP is my point.

Its pretty simple, it doesnt matter if the game doesnt support PVP or not, the point is you cant call yourself something, and then not be doing it.

Again, that would be like me calling myself a Good tribe. Yet we do nothing good, and only do evil things. Does that make any sense to you?

(Again, I've admitted that they are doing PVP because they are doing duels so that's besides the point).

Funny is that again, they like other people focus on the person instead of the facts. They try to attack me saying the things I'm doing isnt smart or this or that. Which I never said anything bad about them. I simply stated the fact that if you dont PVP, you cant call yourself a PVP tribe, and calling yourself something doesnt make it true.

The reasons why they do or dont do something is not what the point is, its the point that they do or dont. Once you understand that, you can move onto the next part of the topic.

[China]

The reasons why they do or dont do something is not what the point is, its the point that they do or dont. Once you understand that, you can move onto the next part of the topic.

Sorry - could not let this one pass. So in the ever churning, turning brain of DDT, the reason to do or not do something is beside the point. In other words - just do something! Don't try and decide or reason why you may or may not do something. JUST DO SOMETHING!

Now ponder that statement for just a moment.

Forget eating because your hungry - by gawd just eat and eat and eat! Or Kill kill kill! Do it, because the reason why you do or don't do something is totally irrevelant in the world that DDT lives in. You know what is scary? I think he means it. (shudder)

[krimara]

I do know they claim to be one, yet never do. But yes I know they think they are. Here you imply we don't PvP.


So your name has merc in it, yet you still dont PVP. How does that make you a PVP tribe?

If you dont PVP, you are not a PVP tribe, its pretty simple to understand. Keep up the good work, work those crafting skills and play your fighting with your buddies. While the PVP tribes are fighting, you are crafting up booties. Here you again try to downplay our tribe and say we don't PvP.


Hey more power to you if you guys are PVPing (Training with another tribe yeah that must feel good for PVP huh?).

I guess its PVP even when its training haha (If you go by the book). Good job you proven you are a PVP tribe, keep on training while other PVP tribes are doing what they call PVP.

Still doesn't disprove my point that calling yourself something doesn't make it true. Which you nor China seem to understand. And again trying to downplay that what we are doing isn't good enough to be considered "real" PvP.

With multiple attacks against our tribe, yes I say that focusing on what you are saying is rather important. Not to mention your complete avoidance of other issues that were brought up.

I never disagreed that we could claim to be a PvP tribe without PvPing, the disagreement was about what was considered PvP. Now that you have admitted that we do in fact PvP to the best of your knowledge, unlike before when you spoke out of turn, please edit your posts to remove the fictitious statements.

[MrDDT]

Here you imply we don't PvP.

Here you again try to downplay our tribe and say we don't PvP.

And again trying to downplay that what we are doing isn't good enough to be considered "real" PvP.

With multiple attacks against our tribe, yes I say that focusing on what you are saying is rather important. Not to mention your complete avoidance of other issues that were brought up.

I never disagreed that we could claim to be a PvP tribe without PvPing, the disagreement was about what was considered PvP. Now that you have admitted that we do in fact PvP to the best of your knowledge, unlike before when you spoke out of turn, please edit your posts to remove the fictitious statements.


I dont know if you do or dont. I'm still of the opinion you don't just FYI.
Because you claim you do duels doesnt make me think you PVP.
Because fatboy, who has lied many times says you might PVP doesnt mean much to me either.

Liquid, says you guys come to his place and "we do however fight each-other to train or see where we are at with our skills", doesnt mean you make the standards of calling yourself a PVP tribe.

I agree that dueling is PVP, but again there is more to being a "PVP Tribe" than randomly hitting another player once in your lifetime of playing.

So yet again, I will still stand by the fact that you are NOT a PVP tribe unless you are doing the other things that make a tribe a PVP tribe.
So this is the point where its not just "English" standards now that you understand what PVP is, but also by what is called "Commonly Understood" meaning when you say something, its commonly understood as to what that meaning holds.

Glad we can move to the next point once you understand what PVP means, and you agree that you cant be a PVP tribe without PVPing.



Sorry - could not let this one pass. So in the ever churning, turning brain of DDT, the reason to do or not do something is beside the point. In other words - just do something! Don't try and decide or reason why you may or may not do something. JUST DO SOMETHING!

Now ponder that statement for just a moment.

Forget eating because your hungry - by gawd just eat and eat and eat! Or Kill kill kill! Do it, because the reason why you do or don't do something is totally irrevelant in the world that DDT lives in. You know what is scary? I think he means it. (shudder)


I didnt say understanding the reasons behind something doesnt mean anything, I love the reasons behind something. It helps make other things clear in understanding when someone or a group of people will do something, because you know the why. However, when dealing with facts, reasons are not really a major part of that, only the facts and actions.

You could list a ton of reasons why you do or dont do things, doesnt mean any of them are true.

Saying you are eating is a fact (assuming its true), because you are hungry, or just felt like eating is another thing altogether.
If you were to say "we never eat" and I disagree with that, you dont need to list that you dont get hungry, because if you DO eat, but you dont get hungry doesnt change the fact that you do eat. I'm not sure if this is making it clear to you or not, but once you understand that I dont need to know why you are doing something to know you are not doing it. Just that you are not doing it, thus you shouldnt claim you are.


The point of calling you a PVP tribe now after being shown that you do duels, training, and might have hit another person by mistake is really more now of a topic of opinion of what a PVP tribe is, and I doubt this can go much further, as I believe you will not agree with my opinion no matter what other data I bring.

[krimara]

Hey more power to you if you guys are PVPing (Training with another tribe yeah that must feel good for PVP huh?).

I guess its PVP even when its training haha (If you go by the book). Good job you proven you are a PVP tribe, keep on training while other PVP tribes are doing what they call PVP.

Still doesn't disprove my point that calling yourself something doesn't make it true. Which you nor China seem to understand.

Try to downplay all you like now, you have said it. With the current state of the game yes I say that training and practicing for when it's worth partaking in larger more grand battles is good enough for now.

You have brought no "data" or "truth" to this other than your own opinion which, yes I do disagree with, I don't understand why you can't admit you did indeed speak out of turn and apologize for it.

[MrDDT]

Try to downplay all you like now, you have said it. With the current state of the game yes I say that training and practicing for when it's worth partaking in larger more grand battles is good enough for now.

You have brought no "data" or "truth" to this other than your own opinion which, yes I do disagree with, I don't understand why you can't admit you did indeed speak out of turn and apologize for it.

Sorry did I miss the /sarcasm tag there? I thought you understood that's what I was meaning.

Are you again disputing the fact that if you don't PVP, you cant be a PVP tribe?


Another thing about the topic.

Lets say our tribe does a few good deeds, but my tribe does millions of evil deeds. Would it be truth to claim to be a good tribe?

[krimara]

That depends if you are once again saying that a player fighting another player isn't considered player vs. player.

[MrDDT]

That depends if you are once again saying that a player fighting another player isn't considered player vs. player.

I was just stating it, because you said I brought no facts or data to show this, its just one of the many, which you can read if you read the thread.

I do bring opinions which I also stated a couple posts up. Notice how you use facts and data, then you make opinions? Its really crazy how the human mind works.

[krimara]

Just to clear this up then, by contrast no one has a PvP tribe. Because no one in this game can claim to have fought more people than they have crafted items.

Just saying.

[MrDDT]

Just to clear this up then, by contrast no one has a PvP tribe. Because no one in this game can claim to have fought more people than they have crafted items.

Just saying.

Ive done a lot more PVP than Ive crafted items.
Not sure what you mean there.

But really its not about the amount of items, its about the amount of time spent IMO.

This is where opinion starts to come into play. If you spending 99.9% of your time crafting items, and .1% of them doing duels (Not saying you do), clearly wouldnt that be a crafter?
If you spent 99.9% of your time doing duels or better yet non training PVP (you know where you go out and kill other people that you are not friends with for something other than skills?) and .1% crafting items, clearly to me they would be a PVPer.

Get the understanding?
If you make a billion items with that .1% crafting time, it shouldnt matter. Because its more about the time spent.

But there is still even more to this puzzle than that, Im just pointing out the easy stuff. Stuff I would figure would be common sense.

[krimara]

On time based you might be able to swing it, but that would shoot your previous example down also. The good deeds may have taken months to do but the evil tasks may have been minor and take seconds. But this could be debated forever.

The condescending bit at the end is nice.

In the end it comes down to how some people no matter with what they know will speak out of line not knowing any better and assuming they are right. It's all about them doing it despite being told by someone who would know that they are indeed wrong.
How that person handles being told they are wrong shows a clear picture of their character and beliefs.

To sum it up for you DDT, I've killed players, I will continue to kill players, but it will be for the reason I deem worthy. Not you or anyone else, that to me makes me a PvP player.

[MrDDT]

On time based you might be able to swing it, but that would shoot your previous example down also. The good deeds may have taken months to do but the evil tasks may have been minor and take seconds. But this could be debated forever.

To sum it up for you DDT, I've killed players, I will continue to kill players, but it will be for the reason I deem worthy. Not you or anyone else, that to me makes me a PvP player.


You hit the nail on the head right there with the first line. I made an opinion about how you are not a PVP tribe because you dont PVP.

There is a lot more to it than just "We spent 6.7 hours PVPing, and 6.6 hours crafting, we are a PVP tribe"

Same goes for good deeds vs evil deeds. You have to look at the whole picture. Things like how bad were the deeds, and how good are the deeds? Helping someone across the road, then killing and raping their family isnt really making that a good person wouldnt you think?


Which brings me back to the "PVP tribe", while PVEing you hit your friend and kill him, does that make you a PVP tribe? Or how about you spend a lot of time sparing with your buddies, but every when attacked by other players, you run, or stay in your safezones. Does that make you a PVP tribe?

These are questions you have to ask yourself, and others will view you when they consider if you are a PVP tribe. I'm not sure how badly you are or are not a PVP tribe, but I do know just in this topic based on what was said about your tribe. Things like "They come over and we train on each other" "Go to their lands then see" shows me you are likely not a PVP tribe, and which is why I still stand behind my first opinion of you are not a PVP tribe.

My statement after was just because you claim to be one doesnt make it so. Still stands.

If I were to hear statements like "Yes, they attacked and killed me" or "I was defending so and so when they attacked" would make me think more of how you are a PVP tribe.
This doesnt have to be bad things you have done, someone could have hired you to attack another tribe. Your tribe does plan to be hired to do such things correct? Or maybe attack players while they are on the road? Or maybe claim bounties?

Dont confuse "ganking" or "griefing" (some things I believe I have done), with PVP or being a PVP tribe. Sometimes they do not go hand an hand. Ive known many "ANTI PK" clans in UO, and Shadowbane that didnt attack good players, or grief people. But they sure as heck brought the fight down on people that were evil, or griefing people.

All in all, you are trying to blame the game for your failures for being a PVP tribe. I agree the game has a long way to go, but stating facts that you are a PVP tribe. Very sad indeed when you are clearly not.

Keep up your crafting, and your "training" or what you call PVP.
Maybe one day you will get the courage enough to fight the real PVPers. (Assuming any others come back to the game, now do to the carebears that have warped it)

[Jadzia]

Try to downplay all you like now, you have said it. With the current state of the game yes I say that training and practicing for when it's worth partaking in larger more grand battles is good enough for now.

You have brought no "data" or "truth" to this other than your own opinion which, yes I do disagree with, I don't understand why you can't admit you did indeed speak out of turn and apologize for it.

I think he can't, he would simply die, lol. I've never seen a person before who was so unable to admit if he was wrong. Not to mention apology :p

Till now DDT has told us how the game should work, how we should all accept his view of gameplay since everything else is clearly rubbish. Now he is willing to share more of his wisdom, and he tells us what's the definition of PvP, he defines if a tribe is a PvP one or not. I suggest everyone ask for a certificate from DDT if they are wishing to be a PvP tribe, just to be on the safe side.
/sarcasm off

Very funny thread, keep up the good work :) As long as DDT is unable to understand that currently no tribe can really PvP since there is no real enemy nor reason to do so, we will have a lot of fun. I think Xsyon Mercs will give a nice surprise to DDT when PvP will be fixed.

[MrDDT]

I think he can't, he would simply die, lol. I've never seen a person before who was so unable to admit if he was wrong. Not to mention apology :p

Till now DDT has told us how the game should work, how we should all accept his view of gameplay since everything else is clearly rubbish. Now he is willing to share more of his wisdom, and he tells us what's the definition of PvP, he defines if a tribe is a PvP one or not. I suggest everyone ask for a certificate from DDT if they are wishing to be a PvP tribe, just to be on the safe side.
/sarcasm off

Very funny thread, keep up the good work :) As long as DDT is unable to understand that currently no tribe can really PvP since there is no real enemy nor reason to do so, we will have a lot of fun. I think Xsyon Mercs will give a nice surprise to DDT when PvP will be fixed.


I've already admitted I was wrong, they do PVP. I'm not going to admit to something I don't believe.

Just because someone does PVP, doesn't make them a PVP tribe. Wouldn't you agree?

I believe I'm being pretty nice, I'm not trying to cause a fight here, sure I've said some sarcastic things here or there, but all in all I've been keeping it pretty civil. Yet, I find it funny you guys are upset because no matter how much I prove to you over and over again, you guys fail to admit it.


Answer these couple of questions and it should make it clear.

If I hit someone with a weapon while attacking a bear. Does that make me a PVPer?

If I dont go out killing people, and I run from fights, yet I will train on my friends. Does that make me a PVPer?


I believe those are very simple questions.

[krimara]

To claim you are a PvP tribe and then prove that you do PvP, I do believe that was your first criteria for being rightful in that claim.

Are you changing that now that it won't keep our tribe from from having that title?

1. Depends if your intent was to hit the player and not the bear. Killing someone moving in on your kill without any agreement would be considered PvP.

2. Going out and killing random people because you want to kill something, is a form of PvP, though not that great, the challenge there isn't very high due to most everyone else out there right now are crafters not PvPers

3. Running from fights? If you have no chance of winning, run, if you would rather not be bothered, run, those are choices you have to make for yourself. I can say for myself that if someone attacks me and I don't know them, I tell them it's a bad idea, if they continue I kill them.

Fighting just to fight isn't the only (nor IMO the best form of PvP as it's getting close to griefing) I'd rather have some motivation behind using the skill I have been practicing.

[Willowhawk]

Keep up your crafting, and your "training" or what you call PVP.
Maybe one day you will get the courage enough to fight the real PVPers.

Could it possibly get any more After School Special than this? :rolleyes:

By Definition
Player versus player, or PvP, is a type of multiplayer interactive conflict within a game between two or more live participants.[1] (http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Player+versus+player#cite_note-0) This is in contrast to games where players compete against computer controlled opponents, which is correspondingly referred to as player versus environment (http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Player+versus+environment) (PvE). The terms are most often used in games where both activities exist,[2] (http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Player+versus+player#cite_note-1) particularly MMORPGs, CORPGs, MUDs and other computer role-playing games (http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Computer+role-playing+game).
PvP can be broadly used to describe any game, or aspect of a game, where players compete against each other. In computer role-playing games, PvP is sometimes called player killing or PKing.

Player killing, Ganking or PKing, is non-consensual PvP resulting in a character's death.[citation needed] Some games offer open PvP (also sometimes called world PvP), where one player can attack another without warning anywhere in the game world. A pure PK game is one where PvP conflict is the only gameplay offered. End

Xsyon is NOT pure PK game.

The reason I posted this is because this argument is beyond pointless. If you knowingly subscribe to a game that has PVP aspects, then by definition you PVP. It would be impossible to fully play a game with PVP mechanics and not PVP. Making this asinine comparative between PVP tribes and Non PVP tribes was nothing more than one persons opinion that; even though this is a PVP game, some people do not meet Their Definition of PVP. Arguing just for the sake of arguing?

I play PVP games (always play on PVP servers if given a choice) because the added challenge that this player interaction beings to the game. If a friendly approaches me or my camp I do not attack. If an adversary approaches me or my camp I do attack. This is the politics of PVP in every PVP/PVE game I have ever played.

This is PVP!

[MrDDT]

To claim you are a PvP tribe and then prove that you do PvP, I do believe that was your first criteria for being rightful in that claim.

Are you changing that now that it won't keep our tribe from from having that title?

1. Depends if your intent was to hit the player and not the bear. Killing someone moving in on your kill without any agreement would be considered PvP.

2. Going out and killing random people because you want to kill something, is a form of PvP, though not that great, the challenge there isn't very high due to most everyone else out there right now are crafters not PvPers

3. Running from fights? If you have no chance of winning, run, if you would rather not be bothered, run, those are choices you have to make for yourself. I can say for myself that if someone attacks me and I don't know them, I tell them it's a bad idea, if they continue I kill them.

Fighting just to fight isn't the only (nor IMO the best form of PvP as it's getting close to griefing) I'd rather have some motivation behind using the skill I have been practicing.


They were yes or no questions, try not to change the question. You are given all the facts, you must make a choice. Yes or no?

I understand you want to put your own opinion in there, but these are set questions that you cant change. The question is there for a reason.

Also there is only 2 questions not 3.

I agreed already you have done PVP. Just as someone that randomly hits me while we are out PVEing does PVP. (I've already conceded you have done PVP)
Does that mean he is a PVPer? Or their tribe a PVP tribe? (Answer the other questions first please a few posts up).
If you read my first post, I said show that first, then maybe I will change my opinion. So you have shown it, now I'm asking follow up questions and showing you why just being a PVPer (or what you call a PVPer) isnt enough to make you a PVP tribe.
I'm waiting for those answers.

Added after 10 minutes:


Could it possibly get any more After School Special than this? :rolleyes:

By Definition
Player versus player, or PvP, is a type of multiplayer interactive conflict within a game between two or more live participants.[1] (http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Player+versus+player#cite_note-0) This is in contrast to games where players compete against computer controlled opponents, which is correspondingly referred to as player versus environment (http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Player+versus+environment) (PvE). The terms are most often used in games where both activities exist,[2] (http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Player+versus+player#cite_note-1) particularly MMORPGs, CORPGs, MUDs and other computer role-playing games (http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Computer+role-playing+game).
PvP can be broadly used to describe any game, or aspect of a game, where players compete against each other. In computer role-playing games, PvP is sometimes called player killing or PKing.

Player killing, Ganking or PKing, is non-consensual PvP resulting in a character's death.[citation needed] Some games offer open PvP (also sometimes called world PvP), where one player can attack another without warning anywhere in the game world. A pure PK game is one where PvP conflict is the only gameplay offered. End

Xsyon is NOT pure PK game.

The reason I posted this is because this argument is beyond pointless. If you knowingly subscribe to a game that has PVP aspects, then by definition you PVP. It would be impossible to fully play a game with PVP mechanics and not PVP. Making this asinine comparative between PVP tribes and Non PVP tribes was nothing more than one persons opinion that; even though this is a PVP game, some people do not meet Their Definition of PVP. Arguing just for the sake of arguing?

I play PVP games (always play on PVP servers if given a choice) because the added challenge that this player interaction beings to the game. If a friendly approaches me or my camp I do not attack. If an adversary approaches me or my camp I do attack. This is the politics of PVP in every PVP/PVE game I have ever played.

This is PVP!


Funny, is that Xsyon's current setup, it is a PK game. PK = Player Killer. You can kill players therefore its a PK game.
On top of that, there is no punishment to being a PKer (Which means Player Killer). Only rewards (options to loot).

Player killing has nothing to do with "non consensual" or not. I could duel someone with both parties agree, and kill another player. I would still be a player killer.

Now I do agree in common usage PKer means a baddie that does attack other players without consent so I have to agree, with your use of PK here. So Im not sure which term you were really trying to use because you pulled it out "By Definition"

I do like that Xsyon isnt fully a PK game in the fact that people can get away (or are meant to), and that there will be punishments to being evil (not yet but their will be its to be planned unless that changes to). So dont get me wrong on that part. This is my opinion.

Open World PVP, also known as FFA, is another part of what makes it fun to me. So I do like that. But there is more to open world PVP than just being able to slap someone anytime you feel like it for it to work. This is my opinion (Im trying to state opinions from facts just FYI, notice the use of "feel" and "like")

I'm like you I play PVP games when I play games, I do play on the PVP servers and I do look for more PVP type of games, like Shadowbane, UO, Roma Victor etc. But, just because I'm on a PVP server doesnt mean my tribe is a PVP tribe.

My question to you, is that if you are a PVP tribe wouldnt you not only defend yourself on a PVP server, but also go out looking for a fight too? Or making an offense?
To me it would seem that non PVP tribes would be the only ones NOT looking for a fight, and only fighting when they are forced too. Correct?

[krimara]

I've already admitted I was wrong, they do PVP. I'm not going to admit to something I don't believe.

Just because someone does PVP, doesn't make them a PVP tribe. Wouldn't you agree?

I believe I'm being pretty night, I'm not trying to cause a fight here, sure I've said some sarcastic things here or there, but all in all I've been keeping it pretty civil. Yet, I find it funny you guys are upset because no matter how much I prove to you over and over again, you guys fail to admit it. No one here is upset, I don't know where you got that impression. What exactly have you proven to us?



Answer these couple of questions and it should make it clear.

If I hit someone with a weapon while attacking a bear. Does that make me a PVPer? (If your intent is to kill them to prevent them from taking the bear for whatever reason, Yep that be PvP)

If I dont go out killing people, and I run from fights, yet I will train on my friends. Does that make me a PVPer? (Underlined part is irrelevant. Running from fights would be based on a given situation, so also irrelevant. Fighting others whether they are friends or not, Yep that be PvP.)


I believe those are very simple questions.

Simple yes, worded correctly no.

Giving broad situations like that and demanding a yes or no answer doesn't do you any favors nor me. It shows you can't debate without resorting to twisting words to prove a point. On my end, it'd be poor of me to answer without clarifying that these would be by situation decisions.

All in all DDT I think they point has been made. A PvP tribe actually PvPs, you have spoken out of turn of things you know not about. You admitted to this already, I understand some people can't bring themselves to say they are sorry and take back what they have said in error but having you admit to being wrong might just have to do.

[MrDDT]

Simple yes



Thanks, see we are at the meat of the problem.

I disagree, PVPers by the book yes, they are PVPers if they hit another player, however in the common sense term of it. HELL NO.

So now we are at the meat of it, and I dont ever seeing that changing due to you believe your tribe is a PVP tribe because no matter what as long as you have touched another player, you are a PVP tribe. While any real tribe that's a PVP tribe would know better.

Heck, every tribe out there is a PVP tribe according to your standards, and since that's the case. There is no point calling your tribe a PVP tribe, when all tribes are PVP tribes.

Thanks for clearing that up, and I stand by my opinion. You are a carebear tribe, that thinks they are a PVP tribe. Carry on.

No point going any further, as this is where opinions will differ, and I doubt you will ever change your mind. I know you cant change mine on that basic point. Being a PVP tribe counts for more than hitting another player.

[krimara]

Dropping the questions?

I wanted to know the point of answering those broad questions. Was there a line of thought there?

[MrDDT]

Read the last reply before yours.

Sum it up.

You believe if someone hits another player, they are a PVP tribe.
I believe there is much more to being a PVP tribe than hitting another player.

[krimara]

Read the last reply before yours.

Sum it up.

You believe if someone hits another player, they are a PVP tribe.
I believe there is much more to being a PVP tribe than hitting another player.

When have I said that? I have however stated multiple times that two players fighting does infact count as PvP.

You keep stating things without proof, just wild assumptions.

Really this thread has served it's purpose. You have admitted you were wrong. I don't expect much more from you.

[fatboy21007]

oh my! DDT has the only true pvp tribe ingame! their for makes him master of all answers, DDT you lie out your ass all the time, and dont say i lie, as i havent all i did was pass info i was GIVEN, not make up meaningless bullshit to try and make myself sound smart like you do on a daily basis, you sit at a computer 20 hours a day and claim you have a life and know that all meanings in the dictionary are wrong, because you know the correct ones, you also claim no one ingame knows how to be a game tester, obviously you had this role before, and failed it also got booted from it. You fail as a Troll and as a human being. You have 1 game you can attempt to act like your a dev, But before you even post a reply back to me , Point out the games you have made, please point out their success, also point out the data you have, i want spreadsheets, logs, webpages, Also i want to see a certified paper sign by the president, stating you are the worlds smartest human being, till i see that, you sir are full of shit, a fail troll and no matter your next post, it will be pitaful just like yourself. Dont worry fourm mod gods ill leavem be now, cant help it when a dumbass trys to be somthing they can never be!

[Dubanka]

i don't get the personal attacks on the forums for low pop game. so you don't agree with his opinions...it's an anon opinion on the forum of a ultra low pop video game...wouldnt think that would generate so much anger and animosity.

[fotuenti]

This thread reminds me of PvP in Xsyon.

It's pointless and takes too long to defeat someone.

ZIIIIING !

[MrDDT]

This thread reminds me of PvP in Xsyon.

It's pointless and takes too long to defeat someone.

ZIIIIING !


Haha, thats funny. So true sooooo true.

[MrDDT]

It's what happens when you surround yourself with yes men like Birdus and Guide Ragu, and let weirdos like fatboy and mactavendish dictate your game's direction.

No need for personal attacks. Focus on topic.

I agree the "non PVPers" (or whatever they want to be called) are putting a LOT of opinions that I believe (and has been shown) to not help. I think that's one of the biggest problems. You have tribes like this one, believe they are PVPing Tribes. So now the real PVPing tribes are not being expressed because they are telling Jordi "Ya we are pvping tribes, we do duels all the time".

So now Jordi is listening not only to the "non PvPers" but the ones he thinks are PVPers, are really not they are like this tribe here, crafting tribes that want duels and able to train on other players. Not world conflicts and truly open PVP.


So my thing is where are the true PVP Tribes getting their voice? Well in my opinion most of them left the game because of the changes Jordi made. (Safe totems anywhere any time, not truly FFA PVP, bad looting system, no contested anything, lacking of rare resources) many of the things that were said to be in the game or coming SOON™.

So now he is left with mostly tribes like this that claim they are the "PVP Tribes" yet really are not, and other non PVPers.
Where are the major PVP tribes, like Goon Squad, Dark Hand of Valor, Pandemic etc they are gone, these large tribes gone because of the non PVP changes to the game after "early access", from what was listed in the features or said to be planned.

[NorCalGooey]

It really begs the question why. Which of course has never been addressed. I think Jordi would like to see 2000-3000 players who don't really care for PvP, so then he has a full game and doesn't have to address PvP. However, that is not happening, so it is either work on the PvP system or except a very, very low population game. That's just how it is. To say PvPers are not by far the majority in sandbox games, is just putting your head in your ass. It's pure myth. Maybe they do not partake in combat PvP, but there are a lot of crafters even, who PvP through their trade of crafting and not their combat. So I am not saying everyone who likes PvP participates in PvP. There are many who love PvP games, but do not like to PvP. They just like the extra challenge of having to watch their back.



If Jordi wanted PvP even to be a small part of this game, he hasn't even accomplished that.

But by not limiting the PvP, it has a huge positive effect on economy and the fun of players.

The biggest annoyance is not getting any information about this. So we must make assumptions.

and I assume he is working so hard on a meaningful, balanced and working combat system, not so we can stand still and smack mobs, but so he can move onto creating a great expansion and land capture system that would have a lot of PvP, and of course this can't be implemented with the combat we had at launch. The cart can't go before the horse.

Speaking of carts? Were suppose to be done by end of september, but haven't heard a word. Also, we were suppose to "expect" a large patch in two days. Not even a peep on that.

I'd just appreciate some better communication. Please tell us the truth, even if it may be painful to hear. If it was going to take another month to put out a large patch, say one month, not two weeks so everyone feels all giddy.

On the flip of that coin, if you were to release two large patches within two weeks of each other, people would be ecstatic, as it would show real progress in the speed of development.

[krimara]

Again with the slandering, without proof you can't make statements DDT. What opinions are we making that are "ruining" the game? You have agreed with me more often than not on the suggestions. The ones you don't know about I'm sure you would also agree with.

Take for example locational damage.

Separate hit boxes for different body locations to provide combat with more strategy.(attacking legs to slow an opponent,arms to reduce parrying ability/damage output)

These things I suggested almost a month ago. That's right, before the current thread you agreed with.

I don't get where you think that you can make such statements about other people's actions without the proof. It's like me saying that you are a crafter because you have higher crafting skills than combat skills.

You don't seem to look forward at all, is the here and now that damn important?

[krimara]

What proof has been provided? All that has been said so far is assumptions, along with questions being worded for the intent of twisting the response.

[MrDDT]

Again with the slandering, without proof you can't make statements DDT. What opinions are we making that are "ruining" the game? You have agreed with me more often than not on the suggestions. The ones you don't know about I'm sure you would also agree with.

Take for example locational damage.

Separate hit boxes for different body locations to provide combat with more strategy.(attacking legs to slow an opponent,arms to reduce parrying ability/damage output)

These things I suggested almost a month ago. That's right, before the current thread you agreed with.

I don't get where you think that you can make such statements about other people's actions without the proof. It's like me saying that you are a crafter because you have higher crafting skills than combat skills.

You don't seem to look forward at all, is the here and now that damn important?

Sorry, where did I make slandering statements vs you?

I'm not saying, you dont agree with me. You should reread my post. Thanks.

[krimara]

No need for personal attacks. Focus on topic.

I agree the "non PVPers" (or whatever they want to be called) are putting a LOT of opinions that I believe (and has been shown) to not help.
Here lack of evidence.

I think that's one of the biggest problems.
You have tribes like this one, believe they are PVPing Tribes.
Here targeting.
So now the real PVPing tribes are not being expressed because they are telling Jordi "Ya we are pvping tribes, we do duels all the time". Here assuming

So now Jordi is listening not only to the "non PvPers" but the ones he thinks are PVPers, are really not they are like this tribe here, crafting tribes that want duels and able to train on other players. Not world conflicts and truly open PVP. Here once again targeting slandering and assuming


So my thing is where are the true PVP Tribes getting their voice? Well in my opinion most of them left the game because of the changes Jordi made. (Safe totems anywhere any time, not truly FFA PVP, bad looting system, no contested anything, lacking of rare resources) many of the things that were said to be in the game or coming SOON™.

So now he is left with mostly tribes like this that claim they are the "PVP Tribes" yet really are not, and other non PVPers.
Where are the major PVP tribes, like Goon Squad, Dark Hand of Valor, Pandemic etc they are gone, these large tribes gone because of the non PVP changes to the game after "early access", from what was listed in the features or said to be planned.
And here making statements with no data to provide for verification. You want people to believe this, provide PROOF not just what you say. I and the think the rest of the community would really like to see data, not just assumptions or heresy.


You are trying to label people that you don't know, don't talk to ingame, and in general have no idea about.

[MrDDT]

You are trying to label people that you don't know, don't talk to ingame, and in general have no idea about.

I didnt say slandering statements vs you.
I was talking in general. Your tribe, and other NON PVP tribes. There is no way for me to know everything about what you believe or have said. I'm talking in general.
If you fit in that group and you want to class yourself with some of them, that's partly your problem, and your tribes. I've already shown how my opinions of what you call a PVP tribe are not inline with what other PVPers would call a PVP tribe. According to you, EVERY tribe is a PVP tribe. Do we need to rehash this again? Or can you just read up and learn.

It's not slander if its true.

Which facts do I need to bring to show how bad the game is doing, and how carebears opinions have been part of that? Should I show many of the posts that have already said this before? There is no proof without a doubt on this, its call opinions using experience from past games.

Or you disagree that Xsyon is doing bad for a company stand point (making money), and as a player stand point (being fun and active).

How much data, opinions, facts and proof do you need to see that Xsyon is doing bad? Or should we debate that in this thread too?

When someone says "I agree" that states its an opinion. I know its simple English, but you should know this. If there it were data there would be no need to agree. It would just be fact. I'm stating the opinion of WHY I believe something, and of that opinion.

Its not slander that I believe your tribe is not a PVP tribe. Its an opinion again, as stated in this thread why.

Are you saying that those major clans are NOT gone? My data on why they are gone is from talking to those clans and players. Maybe you should try it.

Just FYI, the word you are looking for is Libel btw, not Slander. Slander is spoken, Libel is written. Again common English.

[Mactavendish]

I am curious what purpose ANY of this serves?

If a tribes FOCUS is pvp then they are a pvp tribe. The focus comes from the members of the tribe not what folks outside the tribe think/believe/feel.

If that focus changes, then outside of a tribe folks could believe and say that the the tribe is not a pvp tribe, because it's focus has now changed to crafting most of the time.

MrDDT's tribe was at first focused on pvp. Now that all those that had the same basic play style have left, his tribe is left to craft and build.

SO...

Let's ALL be honest here.

Perceptions aside, it is a players actions that define what he actually is. The easiest person to fool is yourself, so look not to what you believe you are but how you act to see what you are.

There are NO real or true PVP focused tribes in this game since PVP is still not working.

( that's right MrDDT even your tribe is not a pvp tribe )

[Willowhawk]

LOL.

You start out your post by saying you don't see what purpose this serves.

Then you say it's up to tribe members to dictate the type of clan, and ultimately is player actions that determine this.

THEN you start playing judge judy, telling other people what THEY are.

So what is it Mactavendish? Is it up to people's actions or is it up to you?

What a hypocrite.

What Mac said is correct. "Our actions determine what we are" Not our words, AND "Since PVP is currently not working well, (no actions to judge by) then there really are no PVP tribes, everyone crafts with a little PVE. What part of this makes him a hypocrite?

[MrDDT]

What Mac said is correct. "Our actions determine what we are" Not our words, AND "Since PVP is currently not working well, (no actions to judge by) then there really are no PVP tribes, everyone crafts with a little PVE. What part of this makes him a hypocrite?


I think you made my point. That they are not a PVP tribe. Thanks a for agreeing with me. Having said that, would you consider me a PVPer? Things to look at, I kill players almost daily that are not for "training" or "duels" I'm talking people that wander near my area, or I go out looking to kill.

Worse is that, you dont even need to kill players to be a PVPer, you just need to attack player and make PVP happen. Expecting someone to come into your "safe zone" and calling yourself a PVPer because you attack anyone that does ( even when they cant attack back, not sure how that fits into the Player vs Player anymore) IMO isnt a PVPer, nor a PVP tribe.

Lot more than swinging and hitting a player once with one of your members in your tribe to be considered a PVP tribe, and I'm glad you understand that.


Mac calling my "tribe" not a PVP tribe is a joke. I have 1 active player in my tribe. Me. I still PVP all the time, we havnt stopped PVPing save when I didnt play and no one in my tribe played (1 week).
What more focus do we need to do to be a PVP tribe?
Our crafters were building up our lands to train in, our warriors were killing people. We had contracts of non aggression, and also were paid to kill other players. We randomly killed people all over the map, we showed up in mass (for Xsyon at least 7+ people) to PVP events when we were 3/4s of the people at the event.
At which time does that make us not a PVP tribe? Is it because we have people that craft in our tribe?

I would like to see Mac outline what a PVP tribe is, and try to show how we don't fit that bill.

I listed some facts, and I'm more than willing to give more.

[Mactavendish]

Max I'm having a very hard time figuring out your anger here. ( this is LaughingOak btw )

[Willowhawk]

There is pvp in the game. Even if it is horrible.

God you people are dumb. How are you even debating this?
So much for intellectual debate.

[GuideRaguel]

Thread Closed.

Ranting and Raving is one thing, we want you to get your frustrations out.
But for the majority of this thread it contains personal insults and pure trolling.