Totem Decay and/or New Lands before adverts...

[Book]

Hello all,

I've read on these here forums that advertising is on the horizon.

I haven't played in a long time, but I've lurked, and kept in touch with a few that are still in game. Sounds like things are progressing nicely.

The one thing that keeps me out though, and the one reason I can't see fit to make a donation yet, is the lack of open country suitable to my needs.

Seems to me it would be a good idea to turn on totem decay before inviting more people to come give it a whirl... that, or follow through on the promise of new land. I do mean the actual follow through rather than a promise of follow through on said promise.

In the past, I felt the new lands should be saved for when they are needed from a business standpoint but if one is afraid totem decay might turn off players that have already been turned off, then opening up new land is another option.

I understand this may lead to people spreading out more and being harder to find. Not a problem though. Those that want to be found can and will congregate. Those who only want to be found by people they enjoy gaming with can let those people know where they are and find each other.

A relatively quick initial totem decay to clear out the cobwebs is the best option imho, saving the new lands for that proverbial explosion of population some see coming.

Guess I'll leave it at that. I'm not really expecting all that much agreement and will put on my flame-retardant suit before reading any responses but just wanted to put my voice out there.

Thanks.

[MrDDT]

I dont think this is fair to old players as they were told time and time again they would have time to come back when the game is ready. I think cutting out all the unused totems is a good idea, but quick and dirty isnt a good option IMO.

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/project.php?issueid=1230

That link seems to be the most widely accepted totem decay option. I like it (duh haha) and I would love to see it put into the game.

[Jadzia]

Nice to see you again, Book :)

And I agree with opening up new lands. Jordi said he wanted slow totem decay, so that wouldn't solve the problem. I stopped playing when he postponed the promised new lands since the world is filled with useless totems and all of the good spots are taken. I'll start playing again when he opens up some new territory currently under the green mist.

If new players come in the game in a bigger amount, the lack of room will be frustrating for them and may drive them away from the game.

[Mactavendish]

Good to see you post Book!

I totally agree with your viewpoint here. Every new player that joins the games eventually complains about not being able to find a good spot to setup.

There are WAY too many 1 man totems all over the place.

I do like the idea of totems decaying due to no upkeep on them. I think what Dez mentioned is a bit too much on the unit requirements though.

The thing is, the totems dropped by non-playing players SHOULD decay very quickly if it has already been months since they last logged in. There is NO way to know that they will or won't be back.

The way to solve the issue is to dismantle any structures on their land, add those resources to the leader's inventory, and just clear the totem.

To those that will jump in next and say how un fair that would be, let me ask is it fair to the new players that will be joining the game soon, to have very limited areas to setup in because some guy quit and may never be back?

Also is it fair now to make a change to the totem mechanics with all these totems holding land?

To be fair, you would have to allow all players to reset totems without having to have all the members rejoin before it could be dropped again. You could perhaps do the totem built with resources idea that Dez proposed, but you would have to do away with the overlap issue totally, to allow active players to keep the areas they have currently, or limit the type of totem they could make to the number of members they currently have.

Regardless of what happens, I AGREE that something needs to be done before advertising.

[Fergie]

I agree with totem decay as a new player..... I was going to setup a small camp with two of my friends who also play MMOs, but I could not really find a good spot (or get a solo start, not how this game works) anyways, once my friends checked out the game from my computer. They decided to hold off till its improved and if we can find a good spot.

So I joined up with a bigger tribe.

Long story short, Good land is used up, it needs to get cleared away.

I think an upkeep on totems is a great idea..... you have to do this in EVE, You can setup a Space Station, but you have to fuel it or it shuts down.....once its shut down, anyone can destroy it since its not protected.

Also in EVE you have different Station Sizes. I think that this should also be setup for Totems. There should be totems that give a base increase to your tribes radius, but has much much larger resource upkeep requirements.

Also having "money sinks" or things that need resources is the way to stimulate an economy. Make reasons why people need to collect these goods and work as a tribe.

Just my two cents.

[MrDDT]

Good to see you post Book!

I totally agree with your viewpoint here. Every new player that joins the games eventually complains about not being able to find a good spot to setup.

There are WAY too many 1 man totems all over the place.

I do like the idea of totems decaying due to no upkeep on them. I think what Dez mentioned is a bit too much on the unit requirements though.

The thing is, the totems dropped by non-playing players SHOULD decay very quickly if it has already been months since they last logged in. There is NO way to know that they will or won't be back.

The way to solve the issue is to dismantle any structures on their land, add those resources to the leader's inventory, and just clear the totem.

To those that will jump in next and say how un fair that would be, let me ask is it fair to the new players that will be joining the game soon, to have very limited areas to setup in because some guy quit and may never be back?

Also is it fair now to make a change to the totem mechanics with all these totems holding land?

To be fair, you would have to allow all players to reset totems without having to have all the members rejoin before it could be dropped again. You could perhaps do the totem built with resources idea that Dez proposed, but you would have to do away with the overlap issue totally, to allow active players to keep the areas they have currently, or limit the type of totem they could make to the number of members they currently have.

Regardless of what happens, I AGREE that something needs to be done before advertising.


How do you know which players are not playing because they are waiting for content vs people that wont be back? Jordi told players already that they will have 6+ months of warning before they do systems like this.

I dont think its fair to them at all, how would you like it when you were gone for a week your totem just decayed away? You are saying the same thing here, only you are choosing which time frame is ok based on your playstyle.

[joexxxz]

How do you know which players are not playing because they are waiting for content vs people that wont be back? Jordi told players already that they will have 6+ months of warning before they do systems like this.

I dont think its fair to them at all, how would you like it when you were gone for a week your totem just decayed away? You are saying the same thing here, only you are choosing which time frame is ok based on your playstyle.

GOOD POINT MrDDT

[Rudder]

Totems should remain active ONLY for those paying the subscription fee. Being an active subscription payee should have more pull than those who are not paying subscription fee's. The active players are paying for the content NOW and the improvements. This is a pay to play game after all. No one has any idea IF any ex subscribers (Those waiting on the sidelines) will actually re-subscribe.

[AndyI]

A happy medium can be found. Set the totem decay to something like 3 months which should be long enough for everyone and let everyone incl non active subs log in a day a month to get together the resources to stop the totem decay. Those that wish to wait for more content can periodically log in and set the resources but either way you get an indication of the numbers of players waiting for more content and may even encourage some to resub. You'll also be able to test a higher number of players playing the game one day a month so we don't have the same debacle we had before. Simply set a free day a month for all subs.

Bottom line is we do need a resources sink and we do need the new lands. Some of us deliberately set up camp at the mist ready for the new lands only for it to not get rolled out and have as such been delayed in creating permanent camps because of it. I think it's time the new lands got rolled out just as were now getting the features that many want. There was a sudden rush of players before and if that happens again the same issues will crop up. It's too late to wait for lots of players then roll out the new lands, better and fairer to roll it out for those of us still here.

Being promised the new lands and that never materialising like many other features does not make for happy customers. I think we've waited far too long already. And we need more animals. The current system just doesn't seem to be working. The current levels of animal population don't seem to come close to reality in any way shape or form given were post apoc and there are only a few survivors. We're almost 2 years beyond where many of us signed up and the number of features released in that time is pretty low.

Also some of us moved to locations ready for the mist clearing and then had all of our trees clear cut and we can never get them back without tree planting which has also not materialised despite having been worked on. This lack of follow through on promised features is pretty poor I have to say. Is it too much to ask that some of these features actually get released given how long we've been patient for?

[MrDDT]

A happy medium can be found. Set the totem decay to something like 3 months which should be long enough for everyone and let everyone incl non active subs log in a day a month to get together the resources to stop the totem decay. Those that wish to wait for more content can periodically log in and set the resources but either way you get an indication of the numbers of players waiting for more content and may even encourage some to resub. You'll also be able to test a higher number of players playing the game one day a month so we don't have the same debacle we had before. Simply set a free day a month for all subs.

Bottom line is we do need a resources sink and we do need the new lands. Some of us deliberately set up camp at the mist ready for the new lands only for it to not get rolled out and have as such been delayed in creating permanent camps because of it. I think it's time the new lands got rolled out just as were now getting the features that many want. There was a sudden rush of players before and if that happens again the same issues will crop up. It's too late to wait for lots of players then roll out the new lands, better and fairer to roll it out for those of us still here.

Being promised the new lands and that never materialising like many other features does not make for happy customers. I think we've waited far too long already. And we need more animals. The current system just doesn't seem to be working. The current levels of animal population don't seem to come close to reality in any way shape or form given were post apoc and there are only a few survivors. We're almost 2 years beyond where many of us signed up and the number of features released in that time is pretty low.

Also some of us moved to locations ready for the mist clearing and then had all of our trees clear cut and we can never get them back without tree planting which has also not materialised despite having been worked on. This lack of follow through on promised features is pretty poor I have to say. Is it too much to ask that some of these features actually get released given how long we've been patient for?


I dont know why you think thats a happy medium. Dont get me wrong, I love your ideas and thoughts here, however, they were told 6 months. How is 3 months a "happy medium" a happy medium might be like they say any NEW totems dropped decay away or something.

I'm all for totem decay, but Im also for keeping promises. I dont think its fair to the people that were told 6 months and then now because people that want it now now now crowd come in and going "I omg I cant place in any good spots" want it decayed away.

This goes right to the meat of what you are saying, you want those promised items also, well so does some of these people waiting for it. Many of these tribes put in 1000s of man hours into their tribes. Losing that to these new players that played for 2 hours because they want it now is sad.

[Jadzia]

Totems should remain active ONLY for those paying the subscription fee. Being an active subscription payee should have more pull than those who are not paying subscription fee's. The active players are paying for the content NOW and the improvements. This is a pay to play game after all. No one has any idea IF any ex subscribers (Those waiting on the sidelines) will actually re-subscribe.

I agree. Filling the world with useless totems for half a year in hope that someone might come back is kinda nonsense imo. Those people who have left in April already got their 6 months...even 8 month now. I played ATITD, and there it took 2 months for buildings to decay after the owner left the game...and that 2 months was very very long, and drove a lot of players away.

I like AndyI's idea about opening up new lands now, before advertising the game and before the free period is offered to players who have left...the new lands have been promised since launch, it's high time to finally get them. That's solves the problem of totem decay for now, and the devs will get some more time to figure out a proper solution.

[MrDDT]

I agree. Filling the world with useless totems for half a year in hope that someone might come back is kinda nonsense imo. Those people who have left in April already got their 6 months...even 8 month now. I played ATITD, and there it took 2 months for buildings to decay after the owner left the game...and that 2 months was very very long, and drove a lot of players away.

I like AndyI's idea about opening up new lands now, before advertising the game and before the free period is offered to players who have left...the new lands have been promised since launch, it's high time to finally get them. That's solves the problem of totem decay for now, and the devs will get some more time to figure out a proper solution.

Of course you do because it fits your purpose. You already stated you wont be playing until there is new lands, thus you wont come back until that happens. This will make it faster.

Clearly you are very bias here (as normally you are).

Jordi said he would tell people about what was going on and give them 6 months. Why not stick to that plan? Just another change in plans you guys want to mess up the game even more for the people that bought it. Stop changing it to just how you want it and think of all the other people. Take a step back, look at it (or try) with unbias eyes and then see how would you feel if you were told you would have 6months warning when decay was coming in, and then you log in one day to find out, your stuff is all gone?

Im not sure how much you have played, but I know people who put in 100s of hours and tribes that put in 1000s of man hours into their tribe areas. That's not only underhanded by the devs, thats just unethical.

[jeru]

/agree Mr.DDT, you have to imagine a lot of your hours invested into the game are reflected in your tribal totem grounds, not so much in your character's stats or gear. To deprive someone of months of in-game work because of IRL issues (like myself, I have far less time to play xsyon due to RL issues) is not really fair to reduce the timer from 6months to 3. But then again my opinion is biased toward the semi-casual player :P

[Jadzia]

Why not concentrate on the other solution ? Fast totem decay is a good solution for the future problems, not right now. Opening up new lands doesn't hurt anyone, but benefits all. That was the OP's suggestion as well, if you feel hurt by fast totem decay then vote for the new lands. One of these solutions is necessary to give more place to the new players.

[MrDDT]

Why not concentrate on the other solution ? Fast totem decay is a good solution for the future problems, not right now. Opening up new lands doesn't hurt anyone, but benefits all. That was the OP's suggestion as well, if you feel hurt by fast totem decay then vote for the new lands. One of these solutions is necessary to give more place to the new players.


You should reread the first post, he talks about totem decay 2 times in there and it says:



Seems to me it would be a good idea to turn on totem decay before inviting more people to come give it a whirl... that, or follow through on the promise of new land. I do mean the actual follow through rather than a promise of follow through on said promise.



A relatively quick initial totem decay to clear out the cobwebs is the best option imho, saving the new lands for that proverbial explosion of population some see coming.


So that's why it got started.


About opening new lands. I fully think there is more than enough room in these lands for players once totems decay, and I would like to see the new lands opened for what they are said to be in the first place. CONTESTED AREAS!

Instead of keeping this safe zoned up lacking of rare resources and boring no contested nothing. Open up new lands with contested areas I'm all for. There is no reason to open up new areas of more of the same we have now, when there is enough stuff and places to place totems now.

There are many safe spots to place totems, and there will never be "best" spots even when people leave the current "best spots" opinions and ideas change. I think Im in the best spot. Others think they are. There is no best spots and planning to get the best spot wont work ever. You just opening up new areas to please a few people. Where are the contested areas? Work on that before opening up more lands that wont get used.

[Jadzia]

There isn't enough room, that's why this thread was started, and new players do have problems finding a good spot. Not the 'best' one, just a good one. New lands won't hurt you, so don't be that selfish without any reason.


The new lands are ready now. I will patch them out this week. I am going to hold out on clearing the mist on the public server until I'm done with redistributing resources (which is in progress right now).
This is Jordi's post from 14th of June, 2011. Many of us were waiting for that patch which never happened. If you talk about kept promises, this is a one which was promised back in March...really time to keep it. Since they were ready 5 months ago no new work is needed, that won't mean a burden for the devs.
And they never said that the MAIN goal of new territories was to have contested areas. If you think they did, please link. It's simply needed because players want a proper spot, not a leftover from players who don't even play just take up space.

Plus it would add a nice variety to the game...the current zones lay in a mountainous area. Under the green mist there are big open plains, players who prefer a flat landscape can find their home there.

[Book]

This isn't about contested or non-contested areas, and if you're looking for a bias free discussion, please don't make it about your wants Mr DDT.

I can appreciate where Jeru is coming from. Always a great idea to keep semi-casual / busy irl players in mind as they are often a great source of income for a game. They use less bandwidth and often require less database allocation for the same sub fees as everyone else. Definitely seems like a good thing for devs/business folks to keep in mind.

On the other hand, I don't see the value in 6 months just for people who left the game. That is basically going to bring back a few players who might still care in 5 months, 15 days. They may like it this time around and stay, or they might just stop paying again for another 5 months, 15 days... all the while hampering growth.

New player may ask: "what's with all the dead totems all over the place? Makes it hard to drop one, and makes it hard to find scavenging areas away from a totem!"

Your answer? : "oh, those are players that quit 6 months ago but *might* be back 6 months from now so they don't lose anything."

New player: "but... I'm here now! I'm paying now. I like the game now and want to keep playing now... what gives?"

Your answer? : "my friends that quit 6 months ago and *might* be back in 6 months were made a promise. That's more important than the needs of new players who might actually pay sub fees in the next 6 months."

If the folks in charge think that makes sense... cool, it's their call. See ya 6 months and one day from when decay starts. Wonder if any new players in the meantime will remember to try again at that time?

good to see you guys too :D

[MrDDT]

There isn't enough room, that's why this thread was started, and new players do have problems finding a good spot. Not the 'best' one, just a good one. New lands won't hurt you, so don't be that selfish without any reason.


This is Jordi's post from 14th of June, 2011. Many of us were waiting for that patch which never happened. If you talk about kept promises, this is a one which was promised back in March...really time to keep it. Since they were ready 5 months ago no new work is needed, that won't mean a burden for the devs.
And they never said that the MAIN goal of new territories was to have contested areas. If you think they did, please link. It's simply needed because players want a proper spot, not a leftover from players who don't even play just take up space.

Plus it would add a nice variety to the game...the current zones lay in a mountainous area. Under the green mist there are big open plains, players who prefer a flat landscape can find their home there.


Ive been in every zone on the map, there are tons of these places you talk about, there is even huge flat areas that are open for players to place on.

Problem is going to be the same with the new areas as there are with these areas people are going to not be happy unless they have no one near them and every resource in the game at their finger tips. This is part of what you get with safe areas. This is the problem without decay. You wanted it you got it.

Now you want to chuck aside anyone that doesnt agree with what you want, and forget them. I care about what the old players have to say, Devs said they would give them a warning before they put in decay. I see no reason NOT to stick to that.

New lands are going to be abused just like these ones are and then what? You will be happy because you got your spot? But then 10 new players will come and say the same thing "I cant find a spot" when there are 1000s of them out there.

New lands should add something new to the game not same old same old.

Jordi says a lot of things, like this is an FFA PVP game, Contested totems, Alignment systems, full looting, many more. You said before that we should suck it up or leave, now you are here doing the same thing I was saying. What do they call people that do that? I forget the word.

Anyways, I want the expansion areas myself, but I can see that it will also hurt the game. Because other more important things wont get done and people will be even more spread out. There is barely 100 or 200 people playing. The area is MORE than enough for those people.
No carts, yet, no mounts, no faster boat travel or anything and you want have people even more spread out? I think that's really bad idea.

Added after 5 minutes:


This isn't about contested or non-contested areas, and if you're looking for a bias free discussion, please don't make it about your wants Mr DDT.

I can appreciate where Jeru is coming from. Always a great idea to keep semi-casual / busy irl players in mind as they are often a great source of income for a game. They use less bandwidth and often require less database allocation for the same sub fees as everyone else. Definitely seems like a good thing for devs/business folks to keep in mind.

On the other hand, I don't see the value in 6 months just for people who left the game. That is basically going to bring back a few players who might still care in 5 months, 15 days. They may like it this time around and stay, or they might just stop paying again for another 5 months, 15 days... all the while hampering growth.

New player may ask: "what's with all the dead totems all over the place? Makes it hard to drop one, and makes it hard to find scavenging areas away from a totem!"

Your answer? : "oh, those are players that quit 6 months ago but *might* be back 6 months from now so they don't lose anything."

New player: "but... I'm here now! I'm paying now. I like the game now and want to keep playing now... what gives?"

Your answer? : "my friends that quit 6 months ago and *might* be back in 6 months were made a promise. That's more important than the needs of new players who might actually pay sub fees in the next 6 months."

If the folks in charge think that makes sense... cool, it's their call. See ya 6 months and one day from when decay starts. Wonder if any new players in the meantime will remember to try again at that time?

good to see you guys too :D


This is about contested and non contested areas, and it is about my wants, just as it is about yours. Make a valid case bring your points and let the chips fall.

You are pretty much saying screw the old players for the new players. Your an old player. A new player better than an old player. Ive seen just as many new players quit the game in a day or 2 as I have old players, if not more. People that put in 100s or 1000s of hours are a lot more likely to come back than these random new players you are seeing to stay.

I think contested new areas should be put in after rare resources giving people reasons to leave the old areas and into the new ones. While at the same time opening up new lands for players to go put down a totem. So decay might not need to happen because like you guys said about new areas, but right now IMO isnt the time for new areas or decay overnight and screwing these old players.

Right now focus should be on the content of the game, Zombies/mutants carts, mounts, animals taming, cooking, etc

There is tons of land for the few people playing if tons come into the game sure, but I dont see a need at all for new areas. People said this 1 week into the game, that all the good spots were taken. Heck I remember someone was saying how their spot they had planned out was taken day 1.

[Jadzia]

Ive been in every zone on the map, there are tons of these places you talk about, there is even huge flat areas that are open for players to place on.

I've been there too. There wasn't even ONE free good spot. There were a lot I liked, but all were taken by abandoned totems.



Problem is going to be the same with the new areas as there are with these areas people are going to not be happy unless they have no one near them and every resource in the game at their finger tips. This is part of what you get with safe areas. This is the problem without decay. You wanted it you got it.

Now you want to chuck aside anyone that doesnt agree with what you want, and forget them. I care about what the old players have to say, Devs said they would give them a warning before they put in decay. I see no reason NOT to stick to that.

Who are you arguing with ? I said fast totem decay is a solution for the future, not for now. Ok, I elaborate it for you.
I'm always on the "Keep your promises" side. So give a warning to old players now, and give them a 6 months decay. Let's hope at least 10% of them come back during this time. Meanwhile, since their totems takes up the space new players need open up new lands to fill the need.
Then draw a line and tell all new and current players that if they leave the game (don't pay the subscription fee) their totem will decay in 1 month. That solves the problem for the future.



Jordi says a lot of things, like this is an FFA PVP game, Contested totems, Alignment systems, full looting, many more. You said before that we should suck it up or leave, now you are here doing the same thing I was saying. What do they call people that do that? I forget the word.

I've never said anything like that. If you try to accuse people like this then provide some proof. So link please.
I didn't say that because I don't agree with it. It's not like Jordi said one thing then he changed the game completely..I always said that some of you misinterpreted what he said, and thus expected a different game. He didn't lie to you so no need to 'suck up or leave'. But I know you don't agree with this, since you still believe your misinterpretation was a correct one. I have no intention to argue with you about this.



Anyways, I want the expansion areas myself, but I can see that it will also hurt the game. Because other more important things wont get done and people will be even more spread out. There is barely 100 or 200 people playing. The area is MORE than enough for those people.
No carts, yet, no mounts, no faster boat travel or anything and you want have people even more spread out? I think that's really bad idea.

Yay for the bold text ! Remember, the new areas were ready in June, so it won't take resources away from other important things. Carts are coming, and if someone wants to live really far from others and he enjoys being a hermit who are you to say that he shouldn't be able to do that ? Others who like company will stay in more populous areas, and guilds who have already built up their base won't move anyway. People who want company won't spread out, players who want to play on their own or with a selected group of friends will find their spot in a far away land. The game will offer options for every playstyle and that's great imo.

[MrDDT]

People are forced to live as hermits almost right now because there are so few people playing. If you are talking about living far from people that will NEVER be fixed. You can open up new lands and nothing is stopping me from moving in next door to people.

I'm not going to get involved with a word debate with you, Ive shown many times how you have been wrong over and over. You say things like well I didnt mean it like that, when I do show proof. Go look it up. Either way its meaningless what you say for it as the proof has been shown time and time again.
Jordi has change the game completely in many different ways, why do you think so many have left and said just that? There is no debate to this.

Adding new areas are not done. Just as archery isnt done. Adding new areas is just partly done there is still more to do with it. Heck just adding a simple thing isnt even done and could crash the server. It takes time and effort away from other things.
Right now players can be on their own easy just goto one of the edges of the map, no one will even see them. Heck players are upset because they have been talking in /s for days and no one even replies. So please take that elsewhere and try playing the game a bit more.

What is a good spot? I can find one right now. Just tell me what do you classify as "good"?

[Book]

I understand you are worried about people being more spread out, which is why I addressed it in the very first post. If someone does not wish to be a hermit, no problem, jump on global, make a friend, get together and do a little dance if you like.

From what I saw tonight, and granted I haven't done the whole map by any stretch yet but still... I'm finding pretty much what I found quite a while ago. Dead totems, some not nearly built up at all, serving as place holders for players who left long ago. I don't think that makes sense in a breathing, living game. That's all I'm saying.

I also understand you are concerned about the "old" players, which is why I also addressed that in my very first post. Let me address it again, but differently.

I bought Eve many, many years ago. The game has changed so much since then that when I happen to stop in, much of my gear is ridiculously antiquated. Can I complain about that? Not in my opinion no. I left the game, it was my choice to do so, there are consequences to the choice I made. No regrets, but no expectation that I am going to hold the eve server hostage in any way because I once bought the game. What if I get an email from CCP saying they are going to purge my account because I haven't been a paying subscriber in so long? Simple, I'd have to decide if holding on to that gear is worth renewing my subscription, or if I'm just going to start over should I fall in love with the game again down the road. My decision within their defined consequences. That makes sense to me, perhaps only me, but nonetheless.

In the original star wars, there were eventually many, many dead towns and empty houses. It looked absolutely ridiculous. It was depressing. I wasn't at all upset to log in and find my belongings packaged up and my spot gone. It would have been unreasonable to believe the game should not change or grow or adapt upon my departure.

I am not suggesting "old" players should be alienated, but I am suggesting "old" players should be adult enough to realize that when they leave a game, they forfeit certain rights that paying players have. Those rights are subject to change even for paying players. That's in every single TOS out there. All things are subject to change.

As I said in my first post, I used to believe the new lands should be saved for future expansion when needed. I suggested a rapid decay because it sounded like advertising was imminent and if many people come check it out in the current landscape, it will be much like standing in old star wars servers that only prove there was once life and everyone left. That is not good for any game.

Sometimes people will disagree with you. That's okay. It doesn't mean you're wrong, it doesn't mean they are wrong, it just means we disagree. No biggie since no player is in any more of an authoritative position as any other. We all put forth our points of view, and let those with their mortgage riding on it make the decision in the end.


ps. I also found many, many improvements that I really like but unrelated to the discussion at hand. Perhaps worth another thread noting the positive changes from the point of view of a returning player at some point when I've learned more.

[MrDDT]

In EVE did they tell you they would warn you when they were going to make that gear out of date?

In EVE did you invest 1000s of clan hours into these gears and it would take that much to get the new gear again?

These players are already behind. Look at players like Rambo, he is missing a lot of the new recipes, stat and skill gains are much easier now. No one is saying that's a problem. The problem is when the devs promise you something, and you make choices based on them. They shouldnt change it because you cant take 20mins to find a spot for a totem.

New areas are not going to help these totem issues, sure they will help for a while but same ole problem will come right back. Why not have a whole zone for each player? I mean where is the limit going to be? Ive seen huge areas with 0 totems. With good resources and great views.

Look at games like UO where housing placement was locked up. If you come into the game 6 months late, you shouldn't expect to have the best piece of land there is, you have to wait your turn or wait for new areas to open up WHEN THEY ARE READY (Ready isn't just graphics and terrain in the game either, ready is when the game is ready for it, heck if it were "ready" because of that we would have 10x the size of the map we do now).


Still waiting on the "Good spot" to be defined. So I can find some, and show how easy they are to find.

[Book]

In EVE did they tell you they would warn you when they were going to make that gear out of date?

In EVE did you invest 1000s of clan hours into these gears and it would take that much to get the new gear again?

I was saying that if I got an email today saying my account will be purged due to inactivity, I would make an informed decision based on this new information. That's what I would personally do, maybe I'm strange.

I'm primarily concerned with the totems that have practically nothing on them. You've been over the entire map many times, do you not see them?


These players are already behind. Look at players like Rambo, he is missing a lot of the new recipes, stat and skill gains are much easier now. No one is saying that's a problem. The problem is when the devs promise you something, and you make choices based on them. They shouldnt change it because you cant take 20mins to find a spot for a totem.

I'm glad no one is saying falling behind is a problem, because that is the very least one can expect as a result of leaving the game. I am not suggesting a ninja totem decay without telling anyone. I am merely suggesting that advertising with the hopes of bringing in masses when decay has not been deployed and no starting date set, but expected to take six months... I'm suggesting that may, just may, be a bad idea.


New areas are not going to help these totem issues, sure they will help for a while but same ole problem will come right back. Why not have a whole zone for each player? I mean where is the limit going to be? Ive seen huge areas with 0 totems. With good resources and great views.

Look at games like UO where housing placement was locked up. If you come into the game 6 months late, you shouldn't expect to have the best piece of land there is, you have to wait your turn or wait for new areas to open up WHEN THEY ARE READY (Ready isn't just graphics and terrain in the game either, ready is when the game is ready for it, heck if it were "ready" because of that we would have 10x the size of the map we do now).

Sure, new land when the population of the game warrants it. That makes sense to me. However, I don't believe the current number of dead totems is healthy for a large and sudden influx of new players which would be the point of advertising.

In my first post, I proposed the opening of new lands as an alternative to cleaning up dead and empty totems should people who have stopped their subscriptions believe they are entitled to not having sensible repercussions.

Yes, joining a game 6 months in, one would expect there to be less room. Leaving a game for 6 months, I continue to contend it is reasonable to believe one would lose the real estate to currently active players given limited resources. I believe this is particularly true of people who were in one day to drop a totem on land they wanted to lock up. I don't believe that to be a sensible way to manage things, which is why I'm saying it.



Still waiting on the "Good spot" to be defined. So I can find some, and show how easy they are to find.

The definition is subjective and not necessary in the larger context of the discussion. I think introducing that for debate would detract from the initial viewpoint I sought to put forth. I am trying to stay on that topic as best I can.

I am not at all saying that anything HAS to be one way or the other. I'm not in a position to do such a thing. I'm merely pointing something out, giving feedback I felt was important to mention in light of plans to advertise. I would have been remiss to sit in silence.

[MrDDT]

I was saying that if I got an email today saying my account will be purged due to inactivity, I would make an informed decision based on this new information. That's what I would personally do, maybe I'm strange.

I'm primarily concerned with the totems that have practically nothing on them. You've been over the entire map many times, do you not see them?

But you knew before you went inactive that going inactive they would purge accounts due to inactivity. If they were to say "We wont purge inactive accounts for a year" then they purge them after 3 months you might have point, but they dont I wonder why? Maybe because they stand behind what they say?

Yes many of them dont have much done on them. Heck many people move 3 or 4 times before they find a spot they like. I'm not sure what that matters. Are you going to make the choice which totems get to stay or go?




I'm glad no one is saying falling behind is a problem, because that is the very least one can expect as a result of leaving the game. I am not suggesting a ninja totem decay without telling anyone. I am merely suggesting that advertising with the hopes of bringing in masses when decay has not been deployed and no starting date set, but expected to take six months... I'm suggesting that may, just may, be a bad idea.

I also think its a bad idea, however, what other choices do they have? They made promises in my cases. Maybe come up with a better idea not one that's as bad or worse.



Sure, new land when the population of the game warrants it. That makes sense to me. However, I don't believe the current number of dead totems is healthy for a large and sudden influx of new players which would be the point of advertising.

I think having no advertising isnt healthy either, nor do I believe that spreading people out so people log in and go "Hey where is everyone" like they do now is good either. Try playing the game, and maybe doing some trading. Oh you have and you were upset about it and you only had to travel 3 zones. Just think of going 20 to play with a friend. Good luck with that.



In my first post, I proposed the opening of new lands as an alternative to cleaning up dead and empty totems should people who have stopped their subscriptions believe they are entitled to not having sensible repercussions.

You mean the people that were TOLD there totems were safe and wouldnt just decay away while they were still adding content?



Yes, joining a game 6 months in, one would expect there to be less room. Leaving a game for 6 months, I continue to contend it is reasonable to believe one would lose the real estate to currently active players given limited resources. I believe this is particularly true of people who were in one day to drop a totem on land they wanted to lock up. I don't believe that to be a sensible way to manage things, which is why I'm saying it.

Why isnt it sensible? There is still lots of land out there for the taking. Should we open up new lands each time a player wants it? Or a few players like you and Jadiza cant find a "good" place?
Maybe do what other people have done, contact the owners of the totems see if they will be willing to sell the land to you, or move away. I did that, worked out great.



The definition is subjective and not necessary in the larger context of the discussion. I think introducing that for debate would detract from the initial viewpoint I sought to put forth. I am trying to stay on that topic as best I can.

I am not at all saying that anything HAS to be one way or the other. I'm not in a position to do such a thing. I'm merely pointing something out, giving feedback I felt was important to mention in light of plans to advertise. I would have been remiss to sit in silence.

With this comment here "The one thing that keeps me out though, and the one reason I can't see fit to make a donation yet, is the lack of open country suitable to my needs." and Jadiza's comment about it, you bring it up. So now you saying its not part of it or are you?

[Book]

Not part of what exactly?

You do remember seeing me in game earlier right?

I joined back up to make an honest go of it and see if I feel differently. Love many of the changes.

Stand by my assessment on the dead totems being a problem.

Get over it. I'm sure nothing will be done to upset your little friends just because of something I say.

[Jadzia]

People are forced to live as hermits almost right now because there are so few people playing. If you are talking about living far from people that will NEVER be fixed. You can open up new lands and nothing is stopping me from moving in next door to people.

I'm not going to get involved with a word debate with you, Ive shown many times how you have been wrong over and over. You say things like well I didnt mean it like that, when I do show proof. Go look it up. Either way its meaningless what you say for it as the proof has been shown time and time again.
Jordi has change the game completely in many different ways, why do you think so many have left and said just that? There is no debate to this.

Adding new areas are not done. Just as archery isnt done. Adding new areas is just partly done there is still more to do with it. Heck just adding a simple thing isnt even done and could crash the server. It takes time and effort away from other things.
Right now players can be on their own easy just goto one of the edges of the map, no one will even see them. Heck players are upset because they have been talking in /s for days and no one even replies. So please take that elsewhere and try playing the game a bit more.

What is a good spot? I can find one right now. Just tell me what do you classify as "good"?

So (of course) you can't find any proof to support your statement. No wonder.

What is a good spot for me ?
A nice landscape, water really close (ideally terraformable ), a big junkpile nearby, trees nearby,a flat land ( the flat land size should be like 3 times of a homestead size), no other totems in visible distance, especially no big tribes in visible distance (I'm not fond of staring at huge fortresses all day long).
There you go. I don't want to discuss my taste with you, so please don't comment on my requirements. This is that means a good spot for me, if you know a free one I'll be more than happy to check it out. There are many of them out there which would fit my description but all of them are taken.

And if you are soooo concerned about kept promises ( a promise that alread has been kept in a way, players who left the game got 8 months and their totems are still there) then why are you not concerned about keeping the promise of opening up new lands in June ? Well actually it was promised for April, so they are in 8 months delay already.

[MrDDT]

You know the visible distance you can see over 2 zones right? So pretty much you want a 3 zone cleared area just for you?

Good luck with that. So if they open up 50 new zones about 5 people will be able to place the way you like it. So every 5 new players they would have to know up 5 new zones. You just made my whole point thank you.

[NorCalGooey]

Yeah Jadzia that's not happening. And what happens when someone moves in next to you? Are you going to ask for more zones to be opened up because once again you can't find a completely remote area with all the best resources, water and terrain? There's a reason that you won't be able to be the only one near such a great spot. Just have to deal with it or don't play.

[Jadzia]

Did they change the visibility distance ? Earlier I couldn't see buildings from a not very big distance...definitely inside 1 zone. If I looked down from a platou I couldn't see the buildings down at the beach. When I ran closer the buildings popped out.

DDT, I didn't say I want to be alone in a 3 zones distance. I just don't want to see my neighbours' huge fortresses. If trees or landscape hides them thats fine.
I'm waiting for your reply for my question about keeping promises of new lands.

Norcal, you are right, I wouldn't like a big tribe in my close neighbourhood. To avoid this problem I would pick a spot which is not proper for a big tribe. I have no problem with a homestead neighbour, since they don't build huge structures. If a homestead player would drop his/her totem too close to mine I'd try to convince him to go a bit further....by offering some advantages if he is willing to. If he is not, I have to live with it, but as I said homestead totems doesn't mean a big problem.

[MrDDT]

No they didnt change it, I didnt say 3 zones in 1 direction.

Im saying you can see all the zones around you so you would have a huge grid of zones no one can place in or you wont like it.

Answer to your question is that I do think they should deliver what they promise, however, I dont think at the cost of other promises. You know like the ones they said first? Like FFA PVP? Or Full looting? Mutants? These are long before the extra zone issue.
Hech even archery? Why isnt there archery before these extra zones?

Jadiza so you are now saying if you are first in the area you ok with other totems near you? Because there are areas just like you are talking about with small totems. Problem is you keep changing what you want. There is no way they can fix it to that, even your own choice doesnt fit. Heck if you drop a totem, and a large tribe comes there you are saying you are going to be upset. What are you going to do then? Ask for more zones so you can be first again? Then when someone drops a totem you want more zone? (Notice the circle?)

[Jadzia]

I already said how I would avoid that problem.I would pick a spot which is not good for a big tribe. And yes there will be times when we will have to ask for new zones...when the world will be filled with totems, just like today. You know, that's why they always planned to add new zones...they knew players will fill the world. That's only matter of time in a game with non-instanced housing.
If you know a nice spot give me the coords please. I haven't found one.

FFA PvP is in game. Full looting is still broken ? Animal mutation is working as far as I know. New lands are more important to give space to new players, otherwise they will be frustrated and will leave the game.

DDT, I think you made your point clear. You want useless totems which have already taken up space for 8 months to stay in game 6 more months minimum, so that the players who haven't come back during this 8 months can get another 6 months minimum to make up their mind.
At the same time, you are against of opening up new land, because...I'm not sure why. It was ready to patch out 5 months ago, and even if it needed a bit more testing it would be well worth the time.

I don't want to see another failed influx of players...after advertising the game the incoming players will leave the game in days frustrated and angry because they will find a dead-looking world filled with abandoned totems and no space to settle down.
They need a fresh start and not the feeling that there was a game here half a year ago, but they missed the train. But thankfully its not up to you neither up to me to decide, the devs will decide which is worth more for them and which solution THEY think would benefit the game more.

I'm done arguing with you about this.

[MrDDT]

What spot is "not good" for a large tribe? That doesnt make sense you want a large junk pile right there that's more than enough for a large tribe. I dont think there is any place in this game not useable for a large tribe. Ive seen them in the mtns, near the mist, near the lake. Next to junk, on junk, no junk near, no trees near, no water near, no spawn points near, spawn points near, trees near. Everyone is different. What you call good others might call bad.

You need to play if you think that those things are working and in game.

I didnt make my point clear if you think I want useless totems in game still for 6 more months. My point is this, stick to a plan and follow it and stop changing it because of people crying. Devs made promises people make choices on those promises. Live up to them.


I would say players are leaving upset because of the dead world because its dead. Not because of unused totems even though they might say that, they are leaving because they can talk in local for days and not have a reply. Why are there few players in game? Well the content isnt there to keep them. There are 1000s of places to place totems. Get it out of your head you will have the best uber spot. Do what I did, talk to the people that are in a spot you like and ask them to move or pay them.
I did that with 3 totems in my way for where I wanted, and 2 moved 1 person joined my tribe. Why did I want the spot? It was needed to move these people because of the 200m radius demands of a large tribe (something homesteads dont have to worry about) and I wanted the road with junk piles near it. I have zero trees as far as tree range goes. I dont have rock on my tribe lands. Just junk road and grass. I made my own water, by dropping a totem digging out water, moving my totem, waiting 6 hours and dropping another totem digging it. All the way back to my tribe.

Learn to play the game using the tools instead of crying that you there isnt a place for you. There are, but you are so used to things being changed because you whine about it how you expect it.

So he promised new lands, something came up. Heck 1/2 my tribe left because of failure of that promise. You move on. Lots of promises are being changed because of how many people whine about it for what turns out to be worse for the game.

Devs have decided. They decided to delay the new lands. So not sure what this last line here means. I could say the same to you.

[Rudder]

Let's hear where the empty area's are. Due to events I am now looking for another tribal location. I'd thought I found a good one and I then placed a totem. When I logged on my alt and brought him to the selected location I discovered it was actually a very bad location due to other totems nearby that almost blocked off access to water. Not to mention the clean area I'd been looking at earlier was seriously depleted of resources now. This 'BUG' is really making me mad now as my main was at the new location and scavenging for several hours before bringing over the alt.

The six month window should start the minute someone cancel's their account. There is no good reason this game should look like SWG with it's abandoned structure overhead that took SOE years to kinda take care of.

As I stated before I really don't care about players who quit because of this or that. They are not paying customer's and those of us who are really deserve a better deal than those who are waiting in the wings(Supposedly).

There is no reason to try to save something for those who quit. Xyson is not a game for everyone. A lot of people quit because they wanted to be able to gankfest others as they do in other games like DF or MO. When they found out that was not gonna happen they left, and good riddance. Those same people who quit spread the bad news and other news spread like wildfire at all of the rpg sites and forums. They might or might not be back.

[Asharad]

It's easy to be fair to old players who quit. Sending warning emails for 6 weeks. Give them a free pass to play without fees, with a deadline. If they don't login by the deadline, kill the totem.

I've seen this work in other games. It would work here, and be fair to everyone. The only exception would be those out on military leave, etc. They could have a system to request extended leave.

[tomduril]

Actually wandering around the last days, I found that the Xsyon world now looks much more "post apocalyptic" as before ... lots of disbanded places, buildings and half setup tribe spaces ... deserted and dead. Gives the world a much richer atmosphere that way...

On the other hand there is the issue with "protected" land ... which is annoying and hindering and not very "post apocalyptic". My suggestion would be to just keep the "protection" if you add resources to the totem (up keeping), tribes not up keeping their land would continually loose their protection and new players (or active once) could salvage the resources that were left behind from people that left or moved to a better place ...

Same should be true for the tons of baskets that are filled with materials which are lost forever - convert them to "junk piles" or just make them (gradually) available for everyone.

IMO its a problem of decay and what it means for the (software) system ... decaying > 100.000 objects is a foremost technical problem, it has to be pressed into the 1 hour down time each day, which is also used to spawn new creatures, spawn new trees, grow the grass and so on ... that s probably also true for the ever-burning fireplaces ;)

All in all I believe that Jordy is aware of all these issues and they will be dealt with, when more immediate problems are solved and the features he wants in the game are stable.

[Rudder]

How many of the active tribes actually have their total number of tribesmen actively playing? These large tribes are controlling large sections of land with a few active members.

[KeithStone]

How many of the active tribes actually have their total number of tribesmen actively playing? These large tribes are controlling large sections of land with a few active members.

answer to the first part of your question is that most likely the majority of any tribe that is larger than 20+ (20 is what it takes to start a tribe) is not active.

to comment on your last part, most large tribes that still have a few actives are most likely hoping that the game will pick up so that recruiting can happen like at launch.

[Drubchen]

It only take one to start a tribe currently. I have setup a solo tribe.

[KeithStone]

It only take one to start a tribe currently. I have setup a solo tribe.

it takes 1 person to start a Homestead, I know it say's tribe in game - but it's a homestead.

to start a tribe is 20 people minimum.

[AndyI]

DDT it is you that is causing the arguments. You constantly try to nit pick everything anyone says. Talk about OCD. Chill. You're the only person that seems to be saying your way or the highway by virtue of shouting down others opinions as if they are wrong all the time. Nothing Jadzia has said is wrong in regard to the new lands. These opinions are just as valid as any other opinion on any other feature. There is a world of difference between someone saying they disagree and labouring a point and causing an argument, he said she said, pointless and argumentative.

The happy medium I was talking about was letting people log in even with inactive accounts once a month. If people choose to do so to keep thier totems alive whilst awaiting new features then they can. It also allows for stress testing on those days. The company has everyones emails and if they send one out announcing thier intentions and if people don't read it then so be it. Six months is no longer necessary. How long have we been in game? Doing this would allow the devs to also guage how many accounts are truely dead and 3 months from now we'd have a cleaner environment. What's so wrong with that? some may not like it but it solves the problem and sooner rather than later.

Having this debate every month before starting the six months just puts us further and further from a day when we have a solution. I'd personally like to see 2 months for decay but hey ho, can't have everything.

As for the new lands, it was a promised feature. I based my tribe position upon that patch and I have yet to build a permanent camp. So I'm disadvantaged by the lack of follow through on that promised feature as are others. What's so wrong in asking that, that promise be fulfilled. Nothing at all. And don't even get me started on tree planting or the lack thereof and the fact that because I'm in a clear cut area I can never have trees again until that feature is also in. Either of those two features and I'd be happier but right now we have neither. That's my opinion and people can choose to agree or disagree, simples. Many of the other feaures don't affect me nearly as much as those two.

tomduril, I really like the idea of losing the protection on the land but as you say baskets are an issue and it won't matter unless the baskets also revert to public as the owners wont be logged in so protection loss alone is meaningless. In order to make it even fairer the baskets could revert to public a month after the land loses it's protection and baskets then decay quicker than normal (the planned decay rate).

There are lots of things that could be done to fix these issues, someone just needs to pick one, preferably before many of those left decide to give up too and then there will be even fewer people than we have now.