Something needs to change.

[Mactavendish]

We are slowly losing players.

Each week there are a few more that quietly disappear and many are not heard from again.

We like to believe they are "taking a break" or are just busy with RL... But 60-80% of the ones I personally know disappear and do not come back.

Many express boredom as a reason they are"taking a break". Many got tired of waiting for something new. Even the most patient among us are beginning to chew on each other.

Please, instead of trying to placate us with what may or may not be in the next patch, Just DO something to change the current state of apathy.

Turn up the spawn of animals. Add a few roaming zombies we can all hunt for. Instead of basket hunting, place bins in very hard to reach places and give the general location. Have a few guides play as overly strong shadow beard that will take a few tribes to try and defeat and have loot that is worth the efforts.

DO something ... PLEASE!

[banden]

You know that moment when it looks like the plane is going to crash and the guy next to the pilot starts shaking him by the shoulders and yelling "DO SOMETHING!"? That, is never really any use.

That being said, it has been uncharacteristically quiet since december 5. Carts were on the test server 2 months ago and you have been wrapping up on them for the past month and fixing bugs, but we havent even seen an ETA for this yet, what gives?

I have pretty much exhausted my interest in the game as it is now, and judging by what Mac is saying Im not the only one, so I really hope we get to see some result again soon.

[HyBrasil]

I think I am done for a long time. There just isn't enough here to justify the monthly expense.

I am glad I can plant something finally, as limited as it is.

I am glad the forums finally have adequate moderation, it was insane when the game first launched.

I am glad the focus has finally shifted off of combat, or at least I hope it has.

I will be glad when there are carts. My character does not have high strength.

I appreciate all of the free time I was given. Whether it was an accident or not.

Right now the game looks like a big multiplayer "apocalypse tycoon." The community seems to want to set up combat and economies before the game is even half finished. I guess it would be something to do but I think it could have a harmful effect on this game's development to do this sort of thing now.

I love the opening "monologue" on the home page, if you stuck with this ideal for the game, I think it would be a hit. It is slipping away though I think.

I may come back when animal taming, cooking, alchemy (herbology?), farming, archery, tracking, old gods, mythology, magic (of any kind) are implemented.
Oh yes, and lockable gates.

[Rothkur]

The game would flourish with a huge community. The way to get a huge community is to remove the box cost, add a free trial, and keep the subscription at $15/month. Then ask the existing community to help spread the word about Xsyon. Xsyon has a huge barrier of entry and will die if that barrier to entry is not significantly reduced. Everyone I talk to about this game gets super excited until I tell them about the box cost. I am trying my hardest to make video tutorials accurate to the current state of the game and get the word out about xsyon. The instant I mention the $40 initial cost, everyone groans or is in disbelief. This isn't an AAA game. Even AAA games didn't cost $40 a YEAR after launch. Indie games make money based on high quantity, low consumer cost sales. If you need an example look at every successful indie game ever made.

[MrDDT]

They havnt even put out ads. Most people I talk to are not leaving because there are few people playing. Which is all that free to play solves. They are leaving because they are bored, and the game is lacking a ton of things.

That's just the people Ive talked too that HAVE played and most have left. These people already paid the money. So your "free to play" option doesnt fix the retaining players problem. There is more than enough people out there to pay the 40$ and monthly costs. Problem is where is the game? It's less of a game and more of work with how nothing has a point and you just grinding and building for no reason.

[fatboy21007]

see i got hope here, i found alot to occupy me. But even ill sit here and admit, it is really fuckin depressing seeing barely any chatter, Granite that litteraly makes ya feel like ur in a post apoc setting. But not much chatter, and Since launch ive watched this pop go up and down, Atm its going down and itll go up again, but its during these times when its extremely low, that we all nit pick at each other as were all angry, we need more players, We need more content to keep us busy, Sure i got a epic todo list, But thats cause i put a ton of shit off for a very long time and Reg actually got me to finally work on it..lol. But we need carts-cooking-charming-More arch stuff-Animals and im not talkin bout a simple fix, im talking bout shit tons roamin in packs ready to kick are asses and mate alot cuz they like too. And Zombies, i wanna be standing their smackin reg with a fishinpole messin around and have 5 zombies sneak up and ninja me. We need some form of dungeons ingame to explore also, stuff from the past, sure we go roaming for tar-resources and recipes. but wth else is their besides animals? 0 other things to roam around the game doing, and No taking junk pile and resorting them around areas isnt gonna cut it, we NEED STUFF TO ACTUALLY FLIPPIN EXPLORE!!. Pvp need rebalanced and fixed, then mb alot of us will wanna go pvp and have fun. Sadly reading wat all i just typed depresses me even more, as i know devs are workin their asses off, but their not robots, so it will take a very very long time for most of this to even enter the game. Ahh well guess i got my tribe mates and neighbors to amuse n chat with me till they all vanish again :-(

[Rothkur]

They havnt even put out ads.

Where is the capital and/or revenue to put out ads with the complete lack of subscribers and new players?


Most people I talk to are not leaving because there are few people playing.

I don't (and no one else should) really care about the few people you talk to. That's not an adequate or unbiased sample, at all. If you claimed that to be market research you would get laughed at.


Which is all that free to play solves.

The implications in a sandbox MMO from having more players are gigantic. Namely players being able to get their friends to join and experience the game. Namely encouraging people to experience a great game who otherwise wouldn't due to the barrier of entry. Encouraging trade, cooperation, massive building projects, strife over resources, etc. If you fits lots of players into a place with limited resources and turn PvP on, the gameplay makes itself.


They are leaving because they are bored, and the game is lacking a ton of things.

You do realize more players means more revenue, right? Are you seriously claiming the current business model Xsyon has is anywhere near smart in terms of both game development and running a business? More revenue means the developers can spend more time developing and hiring new team members to make Xsyon better.


That's just the people Ive talked too that HAVE played and most have left. These people already paid the money. So your "free to play" option doesnt fix the retaining players problem.

Making a miracle patch isn't feasible in any way, shape or form. If people don't like the game, they can leave. We're not going to see major rehauls of the game. No MMO in existence (especially not a small indie MMO) has received a major overhaul that added a ton of content and brought old players back. It's not going to happen, there is absolutely no way it is feasible in the current state of the game and business.


There is more than enough people out there to pay the 40$ and monthly costs.
[citation needed]

Go advertise this game anywhere. Tell people it's $40 + $15/month, has been released for a YEAR, and has no free trial. See how they react. It's a small team independent non AAA MMO, get over your rampant fanboyism for the game and look at the real world. Very very few people want to drop $40 just to try Xsyon when it's pretty blatantly a small indie MMO. This fact is evidenced by the amount of new players coming into the game and the amount of players currently playing.


Problem is where is the game? It's less of a game and more of work with how nothing has a point and you just grinding and building for no reason.

If you need some fake purpose to play the game I feel bad for you. Not to mention that fake purpose is not going to materialize any time soon. I'm not sure why you think the few developers can pull something out of their butts at the 15th hour.

MMOs (especially sandboxes) are social games. Without a large vibrant community to interact with, we're left with a few neckbearded elitist sperglords (The current 40 or so people online at once) who don't want to see anyone else in their precious game except people as neckbearded elitist and spergy as themselves.

[banden]

I actually tend to agree with you on the cost Rothkur but you must however also consider that the world is allready chuck full of abandoned totems, there are a myriad of issues with the crafting system currently and progression needs a workover aswell. So when we get more people into the world, what happens? More totems! and because these things still needs to get fixed eventually also abandoned totems. The main problem with server population is not that people are not joining the game, the problem is that they are not staying and this has nothing to do with cost but everthing to do with the issues.

[Rothkur]

I actually tend to agree with you on the cost Rothkur but you must however also consider that the world is allready chuck full of abandoned totems, there are a myriad of issues with the crafting system currently and progression needs a workover aswell. So when we get more people into the world, what happens? More totems! and because these things still needs to get fixed eventually also abandoned totems. The main problem with server population is not that people are not joining the game, the problem is that they are not staying and this has nothing to do with cost but everthing to do with the issues.

There is little issue with putting in flat decay for totems. If a player who owns a totem does not log on within X weeks, their totem is removed. In the case of multi-member tribes, the system would poll all members of the tribe for activity.

[MrDDT]

Rothkur, you are asking for adding Free to play option. But you are then trying to combat how free to play will work IF they add and do a lot of work to make the game work.

The game has people wanting to play it. It had 1000s of people bought it already, or were waiting for it to be done. You can tell by the people leaving that free to play will do nothing to keep people playing, you just have more people going through the turning doorway.

They need to work on keeping players. If they have a game that players want to play, and they put out ads. The game will do fine and more than enough people to play it.

Adding free to play will break the current game even more, and I dont see anyone wanting to pay to play in a free to play world. The system it has will not handle it.

I can combat you on each point you listed, some are good but some just dont make sense to this type of game-play. Either way Free to play requires a lot of work to be done to make it free to play. If that same work was done to make the game fun, you would have the same results and happier and longer standing players.

[Rothkur]

Rothkur, you are asking for adding Free to play option.



Go advertise this game anywhere. Tell people it's $40 + $15/month, has been released for a YEAR, and has no free trial. See how they react. It's a small team independent non AAA MMO, get over your rampant fanboyism for the game and look at the real world. Very very few people want to drop $40 just to try Xsyon when it's pretty blatantly a small indie MMO. This fact is evidenced by the amount of new players coming into the game and the amount of players currently playing.


You should learn to read before you start writing. The only thing I'm arguing with is the $40 box (initial) cost and the lack of a free trial period like every other successful P2P MMO in existence. Decided the rest of your post really wasn't worth my time if you're going to pull a strawman argument on the first sentence.

[MrDDT]

You should learn to read before you start writing. The only thing I'm arguing with is the $40 box cost and the lack of a free trial period. Decided the rest of your post really wasn't worth my time if you're going to pull a strawman argument on the first sentence. Go **** yourself and get off this forum.


Sorry for poor choice of words.

With a trial, I'm guessing you mean a free trial? So thus samething. Unless you didnt mean free trial but a paid one. Then yes that wouldnt be a big problem. Still the point is they need to work on keeping players playing (not the current ones but any new ones also. Retention). Currently Retention is sooooooooo low. 1000s have left the game not because others were not playing it, but because the game isnt fun and got boring fast with no goals/objectives. Sure building a town and totem stuff is fun for a bit. It gets old fast.

[Rothkur]

So what keeps people playing Wurm and not Xsyon for all these years? Why is wurm a far more profitable business than Xsyon? Why does Wurm receive more development even after notch left than Xsyon? Despite these facts Xsyon is clearly the better game, so why is no one playing Xsyon? It's not like there is an alternative to Xsyon. There is not another game like Xsyon in the world. Wurm comes *kinda* close but is too primitive to be on the same level.

[MrDDT]

So what keeps people playing Wurm and not Xsyon for all these years? Why is wurm a far more profitable business than Xsyon? Why does Wurm receive more development even after notch left than Xsyon? Despite these facts Xsyon is clearly the better game, so why is no one playing Xsyon?

Wurm's econ is much better, crafting has very hard to reach tiers and there is PVP token area others. PVP is more strife also.

[Dubanka]

Going back to Mac's post.

I played...quite a bit, for 3-4 months after the release debacle...i stopped playing because there simply wasn't a reason to play...it wasn't a game.

so, i would ask...what has changed?

we had many an argument about there being a point...Is there one?

Why should I start playing again...the fact that i still watch the boards and contribute on occasion means i'm looking for a reason to.

Is there a point to the game?

Or do you still just craft to craft and build to build?

From the outside, it seems that in the 5 months since i've last played...they've added some new mobs (zombies, etc) and made trees regrow...oh and i guess you can build gates.

I haven't seen anything posted that in any way makes me want to log in again.

So...the question that needs to be asked with regard to attracting players, retaining players, and getting players to come back...whats the point, and why should i care?

[thurgond]

I'm not going to argue against any of the suggestions here. What I do want to point out is that this is the week before Christmas. Some of the people you aren't seeing this week may be playing in the newest theme park on the block (I give them a month, 6 weeks tops before they exhaust that content), but I'll wager most are just busy enjoying the seasonal activities in the real world.

Ravelli

[Rothkur]

Going back to Mac's post.

I played...quite a bit, for 3-4 months after the release debacle...i stopped playing because there simply wasn't a reason to play...it wasn't a game.

so, i would ask...what has changed?

we had many an argument about there being a point...Is there one?

Why should I start playing again...the fact that i still watch the boards and contribute on occasion means i'm looking for a reason to.

Is there a point to the game?

Or do you still just craft to craft and build to build?

From the outside, it seems that in the 5 months since i've last played...they've added some new mobs (zombies, etc) and made trees regrow...oh and i guess you can build gates.

I haven't seen anything posted that in any way makes me want to log in again.

So...the question that needs to be asked with regard to attracting players, retaining players, and getting players to come back...whats the point, and why should i care?

In the case of Xsyon the game doesn't shove fun in your face. Xsyon is not "Fun on Rails". You have plenty of tools to make your own fun through socializing with other players, forming events and activities, and exploring the massive game world. Though some people may say they want an innovative game, it would seem in reality a lot of users wish to have "fun on rails" instead of using creativity and imagination.

That said much is limited by being forced to build on tribe land that is forced safe territory. It's not like a group of players could build a fort out somewhere in the middle of nowhere and challenge the entire Xsyon community to try and capture it. The sterilization of Xsyon often hinders it in many ways. That said nothing stops tribes from engaging in battles or skirmishes outside tribe territory. Sadly there aren't any super powerful enemies (though I think bears need a serious buff) to attack tribes/players that drop rare materials that are valuable to players. There is very little danger or risk in Xsyon. It's some sort of strange sterile utopia with the occasional bear you can just run away from.

It would be interesting to have certain rare resource areas that could not have a tribe totem placed within half a KM and let tribes fight over them. Tahoe Oil/Gold Rush 2014

[MrDDT]

In the case of Xsyon the game doesn't shove fun in your face. Xsyon is not "Fun on Rails". You have plenty of tools to make your own fun through socializing with other players, forming events and activities, and exploring the massive game world. Though some people may say they want an innovative game, it would seem in reality a lot of users wish to have "fun on rails" instead of using creativity and imagination.


I dont think its people here wanting "fun on rails" its they want purpose to their actions.

I have 100 in just about every skill in the game, yet I see no reason to craft anything as there is no reason too. The only items I craft are for looks for events and screenshots.
I build walls and buildings in my tribe area, not for any reason but for looks. There is something major wrong when that is the ONLY reason for them. There is no other reason for these things other than looks.

I've been playing this whole time, Ive played many sandbox games. Only reason I'm still playing this game is because I know it will get better. If this was the game, and I thought hey its going to stay pretty much like this. I would stop playing. There isnt enough building for looks fun to be had for me. I can do that in other games much better without using bad GUI, and port placement tools. Heck I can make it in drawing program and not be limited at all.

Sandbox games need to have reasons to do something. Yes players do help with those reasons, but they need the tools and the drive to do it. Strife, or content is what is lacking here. Not talking about content like making 12 different colors of clothes. Talking about content like, you need good gear to go kill something very hard, or to explore the depths of the areas you need XYZ.

Right now I can run around naked and kill anything in game. Heck its almost better too because you are lighter.

[Rothkur]

There are a few simple factors that are hindering Xsyon:

1.) Lack of a skill cap to prevent players from being masters in all crafts, which completely removes the need for persistent trade and cooperation between players
2.) Lack of interesting areas to explore or rare powerful creatures to defeat which yield rare resources
3.) Lack of risk, danger, or necessity for cooperation for survival. Xsyon is a sterile world for the most part
4.) Lack of difficult to obtain resources

Xsyon truly needs a "spice", something to fight over, both economically and physically.

That said in addition part of the game world needs to keep its current qualities for the players who do not with to engage in strife with other players. (That said AI adversity is a great option)

It's strange in a game so parallel to a virtual world that I never feel the world is unsafe of mysterious. Xsyon, for being so very close to a virtual world of its own, lacks.... suspense, risk, and fear.

[Book]

I think Ravelli pretty much hit the nail on the head. Busy time of year for folks, and recent release of much anticipated game (right or wrong).

As to why an ex-player should care to come back... I'd have to ask what it was about the game they liked to begin with before that can be answered.
The things I enjoyed about the game have been expanded, and quite a bit at that. I've really enjoyed that new content since coming back in, but that's largely because said content is in line with what I liked to begin with.

That won't be the case for everyone I presume, based on what it was they liked to begin with, assuming there was something they did like.

It sometimes seems as though I'm the only one that finds a challenge in the animals I do encounter. Bears, coyotes, deer, they do kill me. I'm far from having 100 in everything and don't rush to the top by any stretch. Only reason I mention this is to point out that not everyone is in the same predicament.

[Rothkur]

I think Ravelli pretty much hit the nail on the head. Busy time of year for folks, and recent release of much anticipated game (right or wrong).

As to why an ex-player should care to come back... I'd have to ask what it was about the game they liked to begin with before that can be answered.
The things I enjoyed about the game have been expanded, and quite a bit at that. I've really enjoyed that new content since coming back in, but that's largely because said content is in line with what I liked to begin with.

That won't be the case for everyone I presume, based on what it was they liked to begin with, assuming there was something they did like.

It sometimes seems as though I'm the only one that finds a challenge in the animals I do encounter. Bears, coyotes, deer, they do kill me. I'm far from having 100 in everything and don't rush to the top by any stretch. Only reason I mention this is to point out that not everyone is in the same predicament.

With a skill cap in place it would be much easier to balance NPC encounters and require cooperation on the part of players to defeat large animals like bears, coyotes, dears, moose, etc. I'm not sure what players like DDT being the ultimate renaissance superman adds to the gameplay.

[MrDDT]

I think Ravelli pretty much hit the nail on the head. Busy time of year for folks, and recent release of much anticipated game (right or wrong).

As to why an ex-player should care to come back... I'd have to ask what it was about the game they liked to begin with before that can be answered.
The things I enjoyed about the game have been expanded, and quite a bit at that. I've really enjoyed that new content since coming back in, but that's largely because said content is in line with what I liked to begin with.

That won't be the case for everyone I presume, based on what it was they liked to begin with, assuming there was something they did like.

It sometimes seems as though I'm the only one that finds a challenge in the animals I do encounter. Bears, coyotes, deer, they do kill me. I'm far from having 100 in everything and don't rush to the top by any stretch. Only reason I mention this is to point out that not everyone is in the same predicament.


Book, I kill them on a 1 day old toon. They are not that hard. Sure it might take another player (noob also) but there should be more than the same old stuff off them. Gear isnt going to help you here, its knowing how to play a little better is all.
Most gear in this game hurts you. Bone armor surely isnt worth the stamina loss. Weapons are really the only thing worthwhile and even then most people I know have one of the best weapons in the game the preorder weapon.

Market and economy in this game are so lacking. These harder animals should be not only harder, but yield more or better. Young mutants yield the same as the 9 year old ones. The bonus off these items are minor at best, and even still why do you want them? The bonuses themselves dont add enough weight to use rare stuff.
15% more damage for 15 items of the rarest stuff in the game made by the best players in the game of their craft with the best tools and stats, is not even remotely close to being enough bonus to warrant someone hauling these goods back and worrying about crafting with them.

Try killing some of these mutants and then without deathporting back bring the bones back. Haha its a chore at best.

Anyways, I'm sure in a few years of having few people playing you guys will come around. I can see things already starting to come around for other opinions vets of sandbox games have been saying for years on these forums.

[Rothkur]

Xsyon would have plenty more players and cash in the pockets of the developers if it was $15/month with a 1-2 week free trial for new players. Obviously these trials couldn't place totems to avoid that issue altogether. More cash in the game means faster development of the features you want to see DDT.

[Dubanka]

Xsyon would have plenty more players and cash in the pockets of the developers if it was $15/month with a 1-2 week free trial for new players. Obviously these trials couldn't place totems to avoid that issue altogether. More cash in the game means faster development of the features you want to see DDT.

It is funny that this is the same discussion that has been had ad nauseum since feb/mar.
the game needs xyz
no it's fine
--lose players---
the game isn't fun, it needs xyz
no it's fine...it's you not the game.
--lose more players--
Seriously the game is pretty much pointless after you build up your totem area
/sigh. Thats why you tear it down and build it up again (and again)...jeez
--lose more players--

anyway. book's answer pretty much summed it up re: my question...It's me, not the game :p

[stonedogg1]

I've posted the following on the Legion website:

After playing this game for well over a year for free, the new account system has finally found me.

I remember when I would loose sleep waiting to get into this game & would gladly have paid $15/month to do so.

Now...I'm not so sure. I love our tribe. I love what we have accomplished (and what we're in the process of accomplishing). I love the community.

I don't know if I love the thought of how this game is progressing and the thought of paying $15 a month to see more combat tweeks, more critters to kill (even if they are zombies), no skill caps or decay, no reason to interact outside the tribe, etc... I'd be willing to do $5/month for a LITTLE while to see where this is going without hesitation, but $15...I'm just not sure.

So this doesn't come off as a rant, here is what I personnaly think needs to be done to keep me (and others) here:

1) FIX CRAFTING - Unclean & I have had numerous discussions on this. His toon is BY FAR the most knowledgable crafter in game. The time DDT & he have spent testing things and finding issues is phenominal. I just wish the developers would listen to what he has to say when he tells them about the major problems.
2) FIX/TURN ON DECAY - for items and tribes. 'Nuff said.
3) SKILL CAPS - Turn on skill decay. If the developers want players to have 100 skills in almost everything, at least program in a golden glow for them to reflect their "god-like" status. The developers have already stated that this was their original intent. Have it easy for a player to keep a 100 skill in one craft and exponentially harder to keep it for every other one they have.
4) GIVE ME A REASON TO STAY (QUESTS) - PVP is all well and good. Every MMO I've ever played has been PVP centric. BUT...Every MMO I've played has had an element of PVE as well. Look at the most succesful sandbox MMO of all time...EVE (and no, I do not play it, but have done the 14 day trail - just wasn't my bag). This game has uber players at all times in a primarily player controlled world (universe). But also consider the PVE element of this game. The are mass amounts of it. I know the developers have stated that they wanted player driven quests & that's great - BUT...They've never given us the tools to create them (and this was something I've been looking forward to - I'm a creative person & think that I would be able to regularly come up with some interesting PVE quests for people to come to Legion, read our quest que & generate some fun for the community). Further, a developer quest system (quests put in by developers) would be an ideal vehicle for them to stear the community toward their vision of the game world (think history quests, magical implementation quests, revenant quests, economy quests, etc...). Even EVE holds the nOObs hands at the beginning to give new players a sence of the world. Here's a link to one of my suggestions: http://www.xsyon.com/forum/project.php?issueid=1408
5) BRING IN MORE PLAYERS - Face it - With a peak population of approximately 50 people, this game is doomed. I believe that #4 (above) will go a long way toward keeping new players for a while. I define a while as an amount of time directly proportional to the amount of time the developers put into the questing system assuming ABSOLUTELY NO CURRENT PLAYERS CREATE MORE QUESTS. The developers have to plan for a worst ase senario.
6) END GAME - No, I am not suggesting there be end game content. What I am throwing out for consideration is the following: Once a player has achieved what he/she has set out to do (be it quests, skill capping, building, whatever...), WHY WILL THEY STAY? The developers need to keep this in mind. Give long time players a reason to stick around. Territory control. Capitol cities. Magical content. ANYTHING.

I'm going to post the above on the official forums to see what kind of response comes of it. Please keep in mind - I AM ON THE FENCE HERE. I really want to play this game. I will probably re-sub for a month or so. But past that, I just do not know...

If you have a comment on this, please post it on the official forums, not here. The developers need to see the communities comments.

Let me also add (to the developers):
1) THANK YOU for the free time (even if it was unintentional).
2) THANK YOU for the start of a truely great game.
3) THANK YOU for being active in your community.
4) You have done a wonderful job at starting a wonderful sandbox. Remember: Every sandbox has a shape crafted by you. Craft your sandbox in such a manner that thousands will want to play in it.

(to the Community):
1) THANK YOU for being who you are (a little twisted like me).
2) THANK YOU for treating new players with respect.
3) THANK YOU for continuing to offer suggestions to the developers.
4) PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE contue to push the developers to keep this game fresh. Do not do it for selfish reasons. Do it to make a good sandbox great. Push the developers to implement ways to attract new players and keep old ones. Don't worry about carts. Don't worry about cooking. Worry about being able to play in this sandbox one, two, three years down the line. This game could be the post-apocolyptic EVE.

I think I'll re-sub for a month (or so), but I really do not know after that...

[Mactavendish]

I must say, great discussion so far folks!

Jordi, I sure hope you are seeing this thread.

Many tribes in this game have from 40-140 members, and only 2-3 actives. We have all seen most of our friends quietly drift away to other games. The reasons have been stated over and over.

I personally am a very patient person. Being an older player, ( 55yrs old ) I am able to put up with much more than many of my fellow players. Many of the improvements we have seen in xsyon have been thing I personally enjoy, so it has been fine for me.

But... The points folks are making make it obvious that I am not the typical player.

Shoot most of the people still playing here are not your typical mmo player. We are all of us veterans of many games, seen great PVE content and great communities... and yet we left those games mostly because they did not entertain us any longer. Whether it was a game mechanic, lack of new content, or even irritation towards other players, the bottom line is we lost interest.

The same thing is happening here.. and the effect is speeding up.

Of the last 20 new members to my tribe, we have retained 4. Most that join us are looking to craft and build. That's what we are all about. But we still lose them when they see just how much grind there is in building. You must also be an accomplished Terraformer to build anything more than a simple 1 story house.

They get frustrated with NO animals to be found.
They get frustrated with the many thousands of items they get while scav'in that have no purpose.
They get frustrated with the lack of trade, commerce, and needs that don't matter if you fulfill them or not.

They get frustrated by simple game play.

It is happening more and more to even the most die hard supporters of this game.

Please, before ANYTHING else give us something to keep us occupied that does NOT frustrate us.

[Book]

anyway. book's answer pretty much summed it up re: my question...It's me, not the game :p

Not so much.

Difficult to ascertain whether someone would be pleasantly surprised with the content that's been added without knowing what they liked about the game to begin with.

Hence, what did you like about it to begin with?
I'm not asking what you liked about what you thought it would be but didn't turn out to be (boohoo, cry me a river as I play tiny violins).
I'm not asking for woulda coulda shouldas, nor I-knew-it-,-I-knew-it-all-alongs, ad nauseum indeed.

Simply, what was it you liked about actual gameplay you experienced?

As Dave said, he tried Eve, he didn't like it. Doesn't mean he's a problem. Doesn't mean it's a bad game. Just is what it is.

I presume there will be a number of people who wake up to sticker shock at the thought that the game is no longer free. On the other hand, considering the amount of time one spends in game, $15/month is not a bad deal. Would barely have covered the first five minutes of a bar tab back in the day. Wouldn't cover two movie tickets. Etc.

Am I saying everything is perfect as is? Of course not. Only perfection I've ever experienced in life is in the eyes of another, but that's about it.

[stonedogg1]

I look at the $15/month as not a bad thing if the game were a little polished. Christ, that's only a couple packs of smokes for me (& I wanna quite anyway).

Unfortunately, I do not consider $15/month a worth-while investment for combat tweeks, more critters, new skills, etc...when I look at the big picture.

The big picture being - What will keep people playing this game? What will bring new people into this game? and MOST importantly... What will make the developers the most money (face it - $ makes the world go 'round)?

Beautiful tribal zones? What will the tribe members do when they get them built?
Introduce new skills? To what purpose?
Intoduce new critters (or mutants/zombies/etc...)? Why? After a little while, killing NPCs for the sake of killing them gets old.

I truely look at the last year spent in-game as an extended beta test. I'd like to think that I've helped the developers (in some small way) to make a better game world. I just don't know if I'm willing to continually pay $15/month for something that I do not see growing.

Unfortunately, without content or purpose, the world will begin to rot.

[Mactavendish]

You know, its not about fanboi's or haters.

It is about retention and growth.

We keep dropping in number, we keep seeing new players leave after a few days... ( and yes spending 40 bucks and not even sticking around for the full month SHOULD be telling you the story )

This simply has to stop.

I cannot predict that the game will fail, I sure hope it does not. It does seem that Jordi does not need money to keep the game going in it's current state. More players only means the ability to add to staff to make things progress faster. But maybe he does not want it to grow atm.

500 accounts, and 50 max players online is a very tiny game.

Communication is actually great here. Sure some are taking part in the holidays, but things are still being worked on. So don't take this as simple griping... it is much much more.

This thread has crossed all in game lines. We have folks on opposing side here agreeing on the very same things. This too should tell you that many if not most are feeling the very same things and that is a VERY bad thing for this game.

Mihr, ( I see you watching this thread ) Pass along to the boss that we need a bone here. When most of the natives get restless, there is revolt on the horizon. What happens when the 50 that are playing finally give up? Maybe they will just switch to playing something else until things improve, but without us to test the progress will grind to a halt. What then? As each week goes by another long term vet "takes a break". Pretty soon you will have 1 or 2 players left... not much of a game

I am myself beginning to wonder when or if we will ever have purpose or reason in this game. Building walls and castles means nothing atm. Nothing has any meaning besides to joy of doing it. I personally LOVE to build and that can hold me for some time. But I really don't want to play a game where its me and ddt and 3 other guys in game since everyone else quit.

Please. DO something.

[stonedogg1]

Great response, Mac.

I consider myself a long time player. I have no beefs with anyone on these forums or in game.

I just want to KNOW that this game will grow & time in-game will count for something.

I too, love to build - but you can only take that so far.

Hell - now that the accounting system is fixed (I think), I wouldn't even mind getting no free time (since all my time has been free to this point) if I KNEW the game content & purpose was expanding.

[Ushi]

Hi all,

I am French and my Eng it's bad sorry.

I love this game (PreOrder..) but now pay 15$ for play on game no finished it's hard.
My friend have leave and no return on :(.
And server empty!

Help!

[VeryWiiTee]

In teh next Zombeh apocalypse I'm going to stand up and yell DO SOMETHING while waving my arms like a maniac to my friends when a Zombeh comes my way.. 'Cos that'll save me.

Most of the content you need to create yourself mates. Not Xsyon, but you. You need to go on a hunt, you need to build the temple for your Gods, the dungeons etc. You need to do the crafting, the gathering.. Create the quests. It's our world to create as we see it fit.
Where some of the systems are working alright, architecture/terraforming/crafting (although tiresome)/combat/gathering and some aren't working perfectly breeding, animal AI etc doesn't excuse the utter lack of initiative this community lacks.

It isn't about being a fanboy as some might proclaim, but more the fact that I'm well off with my own imagination.

Example:
So my city is done being built? What is to prevent me from creating shrines in my area where you can worship your Gods?
- I mean, just because you are technically done developing your city, doesn't mean you can't start developing the surrounding area.
Or start over and redo your arena with more and cool structures.. Whatever gives.

Sorry. I've been playing this game ever since October '10 and I have not yet bumped into a problem with not having enough content to do. Maybe I'm just that much better at imagining than the rest of you.. Maybe you just haven't thought further than to your own immediate surroundings. Seriously.. It's a big world with a lot of content in it if you stop and think for a while.

To the bored issue. Yeah, I was bored with LotRO after 30min of gameplay, the game was not my thing. I'm shure a lot are ecstatic when first hearing about the game, then to realise it's not their type of thing. So they get bored. If we were to cater to all the bored players, this game wouldn't be the Xsyon we know.
- The one thing that is the problem is a world that seems devoid of living things except trees. With more animals (mutants and animals) as well as ZOMBEHS! it'll seem more lively and that'll keep players hanging around.
- Secondly a world filled with abandoned totems

[Mactavendish]

You have to admit Very.. this has gotten more people to comment on this subject.

Most players have been trained to have a game do some of their thinking for them, it is supposed to be a form of entertainment after all and NONE of us want to work for entertainment. Quests, rare mobs, rare resources and the like all keep folks searching. Nothing like that exists here nor does a good quest system to make our own content.. just a very basic one that does not even let you chose what you want. It is very limited, and you can only give as rewards things you can make.. limiting it further, since I don't need any poor quality/low dura axes.

The developers NEED to to know what we think.

I have been saying and suggestion things like more animals, mutants and yes zombies.. even if zombies are really stupid that would keep folks busy.. for awhile.

That's the DO something I am talking about.. so you and I are actually in agreement.

[xmechna]

some of my favorite ideas for improving game content i am going to be here for a long long time an pasing some lunch money once a month these ideas would imo help retain players give them somthing to do and bolster xsyons bank account.

i have great belief in the dev teams abilitys.

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/project.php?issueid=1412

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/project.php?issueid=1319

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/project.php?issueid=1397

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/project.php?issueid=1349

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/project.php?issueid=1369

[stonedogg1]

Most of the content you need to create yourself mates. Not Xsyon, but you. You need to go on a hunt, you need to build the temple for your Gods, the dungeons etc. You need to do the crafting, the gathering.. Create the quests. It's our world to create as we see it fit.
Where some of the systems are working alright, architecture/terraforming/crafting (although tiresome)/combat/gathering and some aren't working perfectly breeding, animal AI etc doesn't excuse the utter lack of initiative this community lacks.

THIS IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!

GIVE US THE TOOLS TO MAKE QUESTS!

[VeryWiiTee]

I totally get you, it's not that.
I agree, even I get tired of crafting and building. I could go hunting, but I can't always be arsed to use several hours on it.
- I think that is where most people stand atm. We need something other than building and crafting which we can do.

So yes, we lack mobs. We lack animals or we don't, but the AI is not constructed in a way that isn't beneficial to us players. (I actually suspect that most animals swim around in the lake as there are no totems or players - hench that is what the AI supposedly likes or seeks towards - less player activity areas..)
- Should animals be plentiful, but they won't ever as they are a resource not your practice target, a lot of 'boredom' problems would probably be resolved for now. Increasing the amount of animals will, however, result in decreased value of leather and bone merchandise and add to much more of the 'too many resources'
- The only real way of resolving lack of mobs is by introducing zombehs! as I see it. Those could be hunted for items, rare zombehs could be hunted for extraordinary items. It could be both crafting materials/tools/armor/weapons on them, but they shouldn't necessary hold something everytime.
- Rare animals haven't been introduced I think and for the sake of it I'd rather have them, normal animals, grow into rares than have them spawn as a rare.
- Just as I'd like zombehs and mutants to grow into rare versions.

The second thing that is -really- a problem is the quest system. With a way of making quests, efficiently and simple, like introducing Category items instead of specific items. Ie. Branches (doesn't matter which branches.) etc., more quest items to be handed in than one type/stack and a way of making 5 and 10 quests at a time. See that would help a lot.
I like the the way it is otherwise.
- Perhaps give it a template feature so you can save and bring back your most used quests :).

[xmechna]

I totally get you, it's not that.
I agree, even I get tired of crafting and building. I could go hunting, but I can't always be arsed to use several hours on it.
- I think that is where most people stand atm. We need something other than building and crafting which we can do.

So yes, we lack mobs. We lack animals or we don't, but the AI is not constructed in a way that isn't beneficial to us players. (I actually suspect that most animals swim around in the lake as there are no totems or players - hench that is what the AI supposedly likes or seeks towards - less player activity areas..)
- Should animals be plentiful, but they won't ever as they are a resource not your practice target, a lot of 'boredom' problems would probably be resolved for now. Increasing the amount of animals will, however, result in decreased value of leather and bone merchandise and add to much more of the 'too many resources'
- The only real way of resolving lack of mobs is by introducing zombehs! as I see it. Those could be hunted for items, rare zombehs could be hunted for extraordinary items. It could be both crafting materials/tools/armor/weapons on them, but they shouldn't necessary hold something everytime.
- Rare animals haven't been introduced I think and for the sake of it I'd rather have them, normal animals, grow into rares than have them spawn as a rare.
- Just as I'd like zombehs and mutants to grow into rare versions.


i think one of my ideas would help

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/project.php?issueid=1412

[fatboy21007]

i want dungeons to explore, old city remenants- stick zombies int hem with rare goodies, and still alot of these places all over the game world, ( im talking 300+) that is my idea of something new to do, and itll keep us all busy for a good while and give exploreing sum meaning and fun, as these zombies will kick are asses. as for scavenging, all items scavenging do have a purpose mac, thing is ya need the recipes that those items use, thus savem and tradem. we will all admit, xsyon needs ALOT more content ingame, for the pve and pvp. But pve needs to have the most added as even at the end of the day the pvpers are doing pve stuff. We need new fun stuff, sure add more arch stuff, that will please me, but thats just me, need to get the waring totems working and allow the pvpers to have their fun while i live in my safezone and go explore the game with said mentiond stuff. That way both worlds get what they want. For pvp if ya go waring totem, its a forever selection, and your entire city will be 100% attackable and raidable, thus giveing the full feel of it. Sadly Oak ya missed 1 part. with this type of game, you will always see the same thing, people buying the game and quiting with in 2 months. People buy xsyon thinkin easy mode, then get a reality check when they see the grind and that u gotta work ur ass off to get wat ya need. but this is all just my opinion.

[stonedogg1]

i want dungeons to explore, old city remenants- stick zombies int hem with rare goodies, and still alot of these places all over the game world, ( im talking 300+) that is my idea of something new to do, and itll keep us all busy for a good while and give exploreing sum meaning and fun, as these zombies will kick are asses. as for scavenging, all items scavenging do have a purpose mac, thing is ya need the recipes that those items use, thus savem and tradem. we will all admit, xsyon needs ALOT more content ingame, for the pve and pvp. But pve needs to have the most added as even at the end of the day the pvpers are doing pve stuff. We need new fun stuff, sure add more arch stuff, that will please me, but thats just me, need to get the waring totems working and allow the pvpers to have their fun while i live in my safezone and go explore the game with said mentiond stuff. That way both worlds get what they want. For pvp if ya go waring totem, its a forever selection, and your entire city will be 100% attackable and raidable, thus giveing the full feel of it. Sadly Oak ya missed 1 part. with this type of game, you will always see the same thing, people buying the game and quiting with in 2 months. People buy xsyon thinkin easy mode, then get a reality check when they see the grind and that u gotta work ur ass off to get wat ya need. but this is all just my opinion.

Developers, gimme the tools - I'll create this for you all day long, Fatty!

[Yuyito]

In teh next Zombeh apocalypse I'm going to stand up and yell DO SOMETHING while waving my arms like a maniac to my friends when a Zombeh comes my way.. 'Cos that'll save me.

Most of the content you need to create yourself mates. Not Xsyon, but you. You need to go on a hunt, you need to build the temple for your Gods, the dungeons etc. You need to do the crafting, the gathering.. Create the quests. It's our world to create as we see it fit.
Where some of the systems are working alright, architecture/terraforming/crafting (although tiresome)/combat/gathering and some aren't working perfectly breeding, animal AI etc doesn't excuse the utter lack of initiative this community lacks.

It isn't about being a fanboy as some might proclaim, but more the fact that I'm well off with my own imagination.

Example:
So my city is done being built? What is to prevent me from creating shrines in my area where you can worship your Gods?
- I mean, just because you are technically done developing your city, doesn't mean you can't start developing the surrounding area.
Or start over and redo your arena with more and cool structures.. Whatever gives.

Sorry. I've been playing this game ever since October '10 and I have not yet bumped into a problem with not having enough content to do. Maybe I'm just that much better at imagining than the rest of you.. Maybe you just haven't thought further than to your own immediate surroundings. Seriously.. It's a big world with a lot of content in it if you stop and think for a while.

To the bored issue. Yeah, I was bored with LotRO after 30min of gameplay, the game was not my thing. I'm shure a lot are ecstatic when first hearing about the game, then to realise it's not their type of thing. So they get bored. If we were to cater to all the bored players, this game wouldn't be the Xsyon we know.
- The one thing that is the problem is a world that seems devoid of living things except trees. With more animals (mutants and animals) as well as ZOMBEHS! it'll seem more lively and that'll keep players hanging around.
- Secondly a world filled with abandoned totems

This right here is the problem with the game. The small minority that think if people don't like the game, it is the players fault; they have no imagination, they are used to game on rails, blah, blah, blah.

Keep telling yourself this and watch the game die around you. The sad truth is, Xsyon doesn't provide much content or the tools to create content and at the end of the day, one is left with the question: Why am I even playing this game?

But yes, it must be the players fault for not understanding what a great game Xsyon is... :confused:

[Liquidblade]

I would have to say that I am constantly checking this site and also Legions. I love the game but my hands are tied, I am bored with building, with out people to help its even worse. The ones that are on do not want to get together cause they have worked hard in building their cities so we pretty much are stuck where we started at.

Pvp for me is pretty much out....would have to work really hard to catch up to DDt ;)...but my ideal is working with tribe to build a powerfull tribe, but with out people, you cant do nothing. I agreed the game needs to be free untill the next chapter (after prelude) am watching and seeing what is gona happen, and Im sure there are many doing the same thing.

[Rothkur]

But yes, it must be the players fault for not understanding what a great game Xsyon is... :confused:

Pretty much. If you want themepark content, dungeons, and carrots on a stick to get you to play an MMO you are everything wrong with MMO players. You are entirely defeating the point of what xsyon is by wanting content on rails. This isn't LoTRO or WoW or SWTOR or EQ where the game dangles loot or a generic rehashed quest in front of your face and you play forever to get it.

In fact I'll list out some of the different ways Xsyon can be revitalized without resorting to generic themepark MMO features:

1.) Spawn rare and region specific resources that are required to make items and structures. (It will be impossible to build a totem anywhere near these resources unless conquest/siege mechanics exist)
2.) AI/NPC enemies that regularly attack players/tribes/structures, requiring players to work together and use a steady supply of materials, items, and structures to survive.
3.) Allowing players to attack other players/tribes/structures, requiring players to work together and use a steady supply of materials, items, and structures to survive and conquer.
4.) Giving tribes or players the ability to put bounties on other players/tribe members for rewards.
5.) Implement a total skill cap to force trade and cooperation between players and better balance the game. If a player is at skill cap, they may choose to lock certain skills from gaining or losing points. If a player gains points in a skill at skill cap, the lowest unlocked skill will reduce by the same amount of points. If there are no unlocked skills, the player does not gain any skill points at skill cap.
6.) Increase the strength of some creatures to require team work and cooperation between players (ties into the skill cap)
7.) Allow players to farm both livestock and crops

[digdug]

I stopped playing this game almost a long time ago. But...
I still stop in and see what the dev team has done, seen a couple updates...
Been waiting and will continue to wait until they put something concrete on the table.
But I wont pay to wait monthly.
Before I bought the game on the release date, I was excitedly reading through the Features page on the main website, which detailed many different aspects of the game that I figured would be working.
I bought the game and found out none of those FEATURES were anywhere near implemented.
I come to the Xsyon site once or twice a week and check the forums for any updates.
Then I go back to the main website, click on the FEATURES tab and laugh a little.
I was a little dissapointed to find out the released game i bought which seems like a year ago was nowhere near as functional as its website had advertised, with none of the FEATURES actually implemented.
How much has been done since I last played? maybe march.

[stonedogg1]

Digdug,

Alot has been added since March (I'm sorry, I'm not gonna list it all here - you can check out the "Updates" archive for all the patches since then).

However, to your point, a lot of the features that you were looking at are still not in game. The developers have been tweeking and refining ALOT of aspects of the game in preparation for later content add-ons (how much later, I have no idea). I believe there is plenty to do for quite a while for a new/returning player.

If you scroll through this post, you'll see that alot of current players (some of whom cannot stand each other in-game) are ALL in agreement on hopes & wants for the future of this game. The developers (as always) keep an eye on posts such as these. Right now, the community as a whole, is worried about the longevity of this game & have expressed their opinions in this post.

Why not jump back on board for a bit, contribute your ideas, enjoy the company & free form world and see what happens. This game is still wide open for the sandboxers out there.

Hope to see you back in game soon.

[NorCalGooey]

When I first saw AlexTaldren's video (and his explanation of the game and what it was suppose to be in the future), I was immediately hooked. I've spent at least 500 hours on this game, and for what? The entire time I was playing HOPING that this game would become the game it is meant to be, and I thought that was going to happen at least RELATIVELY soon.

In fact, I even bought a new computer for this game because my laptop could not play it adequately. Because for some reason this game is one of the hardest on your computer of ANY game that exists. Seriously. Any game. I don't know why this is.

You can say it's not about PvP all you want, but building communities and defending them from war are what gives point to a game. It's what gives point to ANY society. Working together to keep the peace among yourselves. If an outsider wants to ruin your plans, you to band together and defeat them. That's where the true fun comes in. That's where the true adrenaline comes in.

I don't know if any of you have ever been shot at or had a gun held to your head, but it's extremely exhilarating. Only difference is, in real life the adrenaline comes from fear of losing your entire LIFE (the feeling that flashes in your head when you know death is a huge possibility is simply "what is next?", well, that's the simplest way I can describe the feeling put it)

In video games, the adrenaline comes from fear of losing some time invested, but not THE ENTIRE TIME (aka dying in real life).

That's why there is a very fine line between having too much risk in video games, and too little. Too much, and no one will want to even play the game for the risk of losing massive time investments. Too little, and there is no point to even do anything.

That's why one safe totem is good (capital totem). Let those who want to build (even us PvPers like to do this too, more as a showing of prestige though) epic cities do so without the fear of losing them.

However, there needs to be a conquest aspect as well. Because as you can see, zero conquest, zero war, and PvP, or heck even PvE (Giants attacking tribes, zombies, lochness monster, etc) = DEAD game.

The whole reason smiths make armor, masons make bricks, hunters hunt for food, lumberjacks cut wood for fire, arrows, etc, etc etc. is to keep the society SAFE and ALIVE.

So by hard coding safety, security, and no possible way of death (this is the apocalypse, we should STRUGGLE to even get food, seriously) inside of safe zone besides the rare bear that may attack you (if you don't have walls up that is).

Peace in games is boring, you can't argue that it isn't. There's just no way.

Xsyon if you would just make the game we all want to play (at the very least commit to it), I'd invest in NG for your adverts push. Not for the revenue, but so the game survives. I'd expect a negative return from any investment I make with NG. But hey you never know, if you make the game we all want to play, you may just see the world filling out with 50,000 players, like it's designed to be (the green mist lands = 9x as much land as the current non green mist areas) and it may actually turn a profit.

Hard to believe its taken over 3 months to do carts. I think that is a HUGE reason you are seeing people, even the old timers, leave. Development seems to be slowing down again.

Final thing I just want to say........














Don't say we didn't warn you. Many have been discussing this very matter since launch, or even since beta. To find the few niche players left in Xsyon now complaining about the same things, it's just a bit hypocritical.


Better late than never, though, Xsyon. Good luck.



P.S. doesn't it say something about the games POTENTIAL, that you have people who haven't played the game for 6 months or even since beta, yet they check the forums WEEKLY just hoping that the "miracle" patch has come?

Heck, even I still check the forums after flipping out on the devs for in game favoritism and snooping... I just can't get enough of "hoping" that this game will make it.

[Yuyito]

Pretty much. If you want themepark content, dungeons, and carrots on a stick to get you to play an MMO you are everything wrong with MMO players. You are entirely defeating the point of what xsyon is by wanting content on rails. This isn't LoTRO or WoW or SWTOR or EQ where the game dangles loot or a generic rehashed quest in front of your face and you play forever to get it.

In fact I'll list out some of the different ways Xsyon can be revitalized without resorting to generic themepark MMO features:

1.) Spawn rare and region specific resources that are required to make items and structures. (It will be impossible to build a totem anywhere near these resources unless conquest/siege mechanics exist)
2.) AI/NPC enemies that regularly attack players/tribes/structures, requiring players to work together and use a steady supply of materials, items, and structures to survive.
3.) Allowing players to attack other players/tribes/structures, requiring players to work together and use a steady supply of materials, items, and structures to survive and conquer.
4.) Giving tribes or players the ability to put bounties on other players/tribe members for rewards.
5.) Implement a total skill cap to force trade and cooperation between players and better balance the game. If a player is at skill cap, they may choose to lock certain skills from gaining or losing points. If a player gains points in a skill at skill cap, the lowest unlocked skill will reduce by the same amount of points. If there are no unlocked skills, the player does not gain any skill points at skill cap.
6.) Increase the strength of some creatures to require team work and cooperation between players (ties into the skill cap)
7.) Allow players to farm both livestock and crops

Way to miss the point and jump conclusions. People like you give sandbox fans a bad name.

Why is it if one finds fault with Xsyon, one MUST be a theme-park MMO lover? Maybe we find fault with the game because, in its current state, it is a boring empty box with nothing to do that has any meaning, Here are MY suggestions to improve the game:

1) Get rid of safe-zones around totems. You want to squat inside your little home crafting endless mats, you better make sure you have people around that can protect you...
2) Add meaningful item decay. Make it so crafted items degrade rapidly ( we are making stuff out of junk after an apocalypse after all). Would give a reason for crafters to keep grinding away making items.
3) More mobs with better AI. No sandbox game can flourish without a solid PvE base.
4) Make having a city MEAN something. Control of a city unlocks rare resources in an area. Allows the controlling tribe to set taxes or tariffs on all trades (which would require the game to create a currency of some sort).
5) Now that cities are important, lets create some siege mechanisms so they can be attacked and conquered...
6) Improve the PvP. Right now by most accounts it is quite lacking...

Just a few ideas but ofcourse they will be dismissed as "theme-park" elements... :rolleyes:

[Book]

Yuyito, your suggestions and Rothkur's largely seem to be on the same page to me. I'm not all that sure that sandbox fans have a bad name, any more than themepark fans need to have such a bad name. Different types of games, both enjoyable to some degree.

I did pretty much infer from what I had heard of this game before joining, that battle would certainly be a *part* of it. No doubt, no problem.
What I'm not keen on, and perhaps it's just me, is the whole need to dominate large swaths of the population with tariffs and yadda yadda. Paying bills and taxes etc. to real life bureaucrats is more than enough for people like me. No need to seek out a virtual world to get that experience at all. Thanks though.

I'm not saying the game would end in mad despair if what you're suggesting is implemented, I'm just saying that's not an experience I'm looking for in a game. My sense, and again perhaps it's just me, is that sometimes people like themepark MMO's because there is in fact a certain amount of structure in how far domination of some by a few can really go. Not suggesting there needs to be militaristic/catholic school discipline, but it also doesn't need to be Lord of the Flies to succeed.

I wonder to what extent the continued malcontent within the xsyon community is, at least in part, a lack of specifically defined demographic targeted.

I did just try swtor. Completely different style of game. Undoubtedly entertainment value to be had there as well. No crafting from what I can see. Completely different genre.
On the other hand, right from the get-go, I had 3 very important options. PvP, PvE, or RP? That very basic question is fairly central to what anyone is looking for in a game. Same game, different set of structural rules regarding allowable behavior to target specific sub-demographics.

I personally like the PvE servers, as that gives me the *option* to play PvP when I feel like it, but am not forced to entertain another player in that fashion on days/evenings/mornings when I just don't really feel like it. At the end of the day, having that very basic right to choose what I feel like doing is important to me, and others like me. That's not going to change.

[Rothkur]

Way to miss the point and jump conclusions. People like you give sandbox fans a bad name.

Why is it if one finds fault with Xsyon, one MUST be a theme-park MMO lover? Maybe we find fault with the game because, in its current state, it is a boring empty box with nothing to do that has any meaning, Here are MY suggestions to improve the game:

1) Get rid of safe-zones around totems. You want to squat inside your little home crafting endless mats, you better make sure you have people around that can protect you...
2) Add meaningful item decay. Make it so crafted items degrade rapidly ( we are making stuff out of junk after an apocalypse after all). Would give a reason for crafters to keep grinding away making items.
3) More mobs with better AI. No sandbox game can flourish without a solid PvE base.
4) Make having a city MEAN something. Control of a city unlocks rare resources in an area. Allows the controlling tribe to set taxes or tariffs on all trades (which would require the game to create a currency of some sort).
5) Now that cities are important, lets create some siege mechanisms so they can be attacked and conquered...
6) Improve the PvP. Right now by most accounts it is quite lacking...

Just a few ideas but ofcourse they will be dismissed as "theme-park" elements... :rolleyes:

So you want nothing that actually adds to gameplay (except the PvE AI), want far more grind (decay), and want to completely bone any player who isn't in a huge clan (no safe zones, rare resources for huge clans who own cities only). In fact, judging by the taxes and tariffs you basically want to force everyone to grind for and support large clans. Nice. This summary isn't a strawman because anyone who can read can see that's exactly what the implication of those changes are. But keep making huge generalizations about gameplay and more claims of things that
"No sandbox game can flourish without"Without providing any supporting logic or evidence.

Gotta love the nolifers, at least the themepark players want something in the way of content. Nolifers just want to grind all day and slap around every player who's not in their zerg clan with their e-phallus. It really makes me wonder how insecure you have to be to lobby for the needed change in a game is to screw every player over who isn't in a huge clan and doesn't want to grind forever to just keep up with their decay.

[Xsyon]

Hello everyone,

　

I have been following this conversation and appreciate all the feedback so far.

　

Development may seem slow at times but we are working as hard as we possibly can. We're a very small team. Most of us typically work more than 10 hours per day, seven days per week. When one of us has a problem, illness or injury to deal with (and this has plagued us many times this past year), it has a noticeable effect. Still, we've come a very long way since launch and I'm proud of what our small team has accomplished.

　

Since launch we've had to balance our progress between stabilizing and optimizing the server and client, improving graphics, fixing bugs, improving current systems, adding new features and making changes based on players suggestions. One thing players don't readily notice is the amount of work that we've done improving the server and back end data storage systems. These have been vastly improved since launch and pave the way for current and future improvements.

　

Some of our changes have gone well and others have taken more time than planned or failed to produce the desired results. This is expected with an ever-changing game and development schedule.

　

Moving forward I agree with many of the comments here. The game needs longer lasting entertainment in the form of more meaning, danger and sense of struggle to survive. This needs to happen with us first continuing to revise and improve the current systems and providing more tools for players to interact and entertain each other, which is the basis of the Xsyon world.

　

Please check the main announcements thread for our current plans.

Thanks!

[Mactavendish]

And thank you very much for taking time to respond here to this thread!

I know you care and that you listen, but thought you needed to hear more on current sentiment express by those of us that have stuck it out.

I know you don't want Status quo, and really appreciate all the hard work you folks do to make this game fresh and different!

[NorCalGooey]

Hello everyone,

　

I have been following this conversation and appreciate all the feedback so far.

　

Development may seem slow at times but we are working as hard as we possibly can. We're a very small team. Most of us typically work more than 10 hours per day, seven days per week. When one of us has a problem, illness or injury to deal with (and this has plagued us many times this past year), it has a noticeable effect. Still, we've come a very long way since launch and I'm proud of what our small team has accomplished.

　

Since launch we've had to balance our progress between stabilizing and optimizing the server and client, improving graphics, fixing bugs, improving current systems, adding new features and making changes based on players suggestions. One thing players don't readily notice is the amount of work that we've done improving the server and back end data storage systems. These have been vastly improved since launch and pave the way for current and future improvements.

　

Some of our changes have gone well and others have taken more time than planned or failed to produce the desired results. This is expected with an ever-changing game and development schedule.

　

Moving forward I agree with many of the comments here. The game needs longer lasting entertainment in the form of more meaning, danger and sense of struggle to survive. This needs to happen with us first continuing to revise and improve the current systems and providing more tools for players to interact and entertain each other, which is the basis of the Xsyon world.

　

Please check the main announcements thread for our current plans.

Thanks!

I do not doubt you guys work over 60-70 hours a week. In fact, if people cannot applaud the hard work of the devs, then I don't know what they can applaud.

I just think a lot of the fluff development should have be put on the back burner, and you should have focused on core systems the entire time.

That way at least new development would impact game play, and you would receive more recognition for your development.

The game surely has come a long way since launch. It's just that it was released so extremely under developed at release, that people don't realize all the changes that have been implemented

With all that said, I still think you should focus purely on the core gameplay. Just think about this. Why work on carts for 3 months, if there isn't even any reason to trade yet?





-Fish aren't rare (imo they should be much harder to catch in this apocalyptic environment, because they are going extinct or whatever works with apocalyptic lore), they can't spoil, and it's not like we need them or we die and encur death penalties.

-It's not like armor is needed to mitigate damage (armor mitigation needs slight buffs relative to the stamina use that comes from the heavy bone armor). Although for a noob, bone armor may make the difference between life and death. But if there was MORE threat of death, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH faster decay from armor and weapons, then tailors/leathercraft/bonecraft/weaponcrafters would instantly have a lot more value.

-Make the gap between noob and veteran much smaller. I think this can be done with skill decay though. It will solve a bunch of "balance issues" (IE, mob A is too easy, or, mob A is too hard. you will never be able to balance it properly for everyone with such a huge hitpoints difference from noob to max level (about 30 hp as a noob, and 300+hp at max level)

-We don't NEED granite to build walls (or any resource that builds a barrier mind you)

-etc, etc, etc, I'm sure you can think of many more things that have no use to be traded.





IMO you and the team should have a meeting and decide what utility each item or skill has in terms of survival. I notice that just about everything can be massively improved upon, in terms of adding more realistic apocalyptic survival.

[HyBrasil]

I think carts are a great addition. I am not about to poo-poo carts. Well done devs. I think there is a reason for carts. They aren't just for trade. I see the uses quite clearly for myself. I could care less about these neo-apolcalyptic-capitalism ideals. Please don't listen to these "regulated scarcity" arguments I keep seeing. Some of us like that we can do everything and that the world is abundant.

Now I would love to have cooking, animal taming, and all of the other buttons and gauges working too! I don't see these as "new" features, I see them as MISSING features at present. Gaping holes in the game that need to be fixed ASAP.

And don't forget the "silent minority." There really aren't that many of this talking in this thread. I think one of the biggest mistakes that can be made is for those with the largest post count or most active accounts to be taken the most seriously. Some of us like this game just as much, if not more than they do.

[MrDDT]

I think carts are a great addition. I am not about to poo-poo carts. Well done devs. I think there is a reason for carts. They aren't just for trade. I see the uses quite clearly for myself. I could care less about these neo-apolcalyptic-capitalism ideals. Please don't listen to these "regulated scarcity" arguments I keep seeing. Some of us like that we can do everything and that the world is abundant.

Now I would love to have cooking, animal taming, and all of the other buttons and gauges working too! I don't see these as "new" features, I see them as MISSING features at present. Gaping holes in the game that need to be fixed ASAP.

And don't forget the "silent minority." There really aren't that many of this talking in this thread. I think one of the biggest mistakes that can be made is for those with the largest post count or most active accounts to be taken the most seriously. Some of us like this game just as much, if not more than they do.


You mean some of the people left playing? So of the 1000s of people that have bought the game. Some of the ones left playing which are less than 100, like that you have a lot of everything. Wow good come back there. Totally a reason to keep it in game.

Resources are a huge problem with this game. Carts not able to be used for trade is pretty sad at best.

Travel in the game is horrid, trade is about zero. Adding more people will not fix either of these. Nor will it fix the resources as how resources are done.

[sunshiner]

glad i just read all this, was gonna retry the game but i can see that would be a really bad idear, it really does sadden me to see a game i had so high
hopes for sinking slowly but surely down to nothing.
just the insanly low amount of players is mind blowing to me, guess i was ignorant when i thought the game would do a "comeback" sigh...
just reading and seing how much of a "fuzz" carts are making, i mean wtf? carts?? yere i can see they are awesome for transport etc and so forth, but why use em for transport and trade when there isnt any trade? why transport stuff to build walls with when walls are useless?
why make carts now???? dont get it there is SO much that needs to be done and then they do carts..
just as weid as when AV added their funhulks to darkfall... to me it just seems like an attempt at adding something exiting to try and keep players playing, to me that just indicates that the ship is sinking and fast...

i know alot of people will go rage blahlbslagl on me or my post will be deleted or something, but i had hoped just as much as anyone else that this game would succede, and dont pull that "your used to being handed everything" shit, have bought and played more or less all games with any hint of sandboxines in them since the start of uo, and from having seen and loved all those sandboxes you also just start to recognise when thing start going downhill whitout any hint at going up again, yet im 100% sure now that when all comes to all it will sink, sadly but surely.

[xmechna]

this thread ended well after say xsyons and macs post and here comes ddt and crew to throw it down the hole and fighting like a rabid dog when he thinks his opinion or one of his crews isn't taken like gods given word ....

we can do without the negativity there's other people in the community asides you ddt with opinions just as important.

[fatboy21007]

lemme get this straight, you all bitch n moan n groan and everytime he does wat ya friggin ask, ya flip it around and say it shouldnt be done? WTH! This is why the devs need to ignore the community now and go with their PLAN, and stop listening to you all. For a long time u all wanted carts and raised hell overem even u norcal and ddt, but now ur saying why did he do them ? You all asked him too. Geesh, ingreatful people.

[zookeeper]

I don't think a decay system will ever close the gap and I honestly don't see a gap atm.

I come from Wurm a game that had caps and removed them as it did nothing to close any gap and it actually was keeping players away from the game. Here is why and it was the reason a lot of people quit playing because the game became a chore and wasn't fun. I and other people would log in to the game and notice this skill or that skill had decayed and I would spend hours trying to get my skill back to original levels then after that I would have at best a hour or two of game play of what I wanted to do, which everything required so much time to do so, I didn't get to do much of anything.

After weeks, months, and over a year of this and arguments on the forum regarding how the game was becoming a second job Rolf finally removed skill decay. No great apocalypse happened in fact people actually got to work on the things they liked instead of worrying about barely playing during the week and wasting a whole weekend fighting skill decay. If the game becomes a chore where you must spend all your free play time combating skill decay or coming off of vacation or a extended break with a massive loss to skill I think it will be more hurtful to bringing in players than closing a imaginary gap that doesn't exist.

All that is required is for skills to be made harder to level up and require a longer grind which will balance out everyone having all skills. If it takes a few months to level a skill then it will balance out in the end result. You will have people come and go and you'll have those who will always complain about a gap as they want easy mode and those people will never sit and grind their skills and scream for skill resets.

[NorCalGooey]

this thread ended well after say xsyons and macs post and here comes ddt and crew to throw it down the hole and fighting like a rabid dog when he thinks his opinion or one of his crews isn't taken like gods given word ....

we can do without the negativity there's other people in the community asides you ddt with opinions just as important.

Why don't you focus on giving something of subtance instead of bashing DDT because it is the popular thing to do.

"DDT and crew" have said all along the same things this thread is discussing.

You can say it's about the game not being known (aka no adverts push yet) all you want, but the fact of the matter is this game has only managed to keep less than 10% of the people who bought the game interested for more than 3 months. It's probably closer to 5%.

No MMO with that rate of "turnover" has ever lasted very long.

However, the situation with Xsyon may be different. Perhaps expenses are extremely low and they can keep the game running for a very long time with low revenues. That would be great, because like we all know, the game has potential. It just needs time to play out, I guess.

Or more developers.

Still, I think it is more about WHAT they have been developing more so than HOW MUCH they have developed since launch, that is causing all the complaints.



lemme get this straight, you all bitch n moan n groan and everytime he does wat ya friggin ask, ya flip it around and say it shouldnt be done? WTH! This is why the devs need to ignore the community now and go with their PLAN, and stop listening to you all. For a long time u all wanted carts and raised hell overem even u norcal and ddt, but now ur saying why did he do them ? You all asked him too. Geesh, ingreatful people.

Of course carts are necessary FOR TRADE TO BE PRACTICAL.

That doesn't mean the items that we are trading actually have any use or need to be traded for. People shouldn't trade simply for efficiency. They should trade because they CANNOT get the item themselves.

Everything in this game you can get yourself (especially tribes, even small tribes), see my point? I think Xsyon sees the point and is going to do his best to fix it (IE, massively increasing item decay, as well as adding skill decay among other things, i hope).

Of course carts will be great for gatherers. It's just that what need is there for anything we gather?

Granite to make walls that aren't needed for protection?
Fish that has no need to be eaten except more efficient crafting (intensify this IMO, make hunger/thirst effect fail chance by a lot more than currently)
Lumber to make tools that aren't needed for anything but to make other gear/items that have no real need?



I think the bottom line is that this game isn't a group sandbox, it is an individual sandbox. It feels like a single player game with other players that happen to be in the world, but have zero impact on how you play the game.

Real sandboxes aren't like this, IE little kids always mess up each others sand castles while playing in the sandbox, IRL.

[MrDDT]

lemme get this straight, you all bitch n moan n groan and everytime he does wat ya friggin ask, ya flip it around and say it shouldnt be done? WTH! This is why the devs need to ignore the community now and go with their PLAN, and stop listening to you all. For a long time u all wanted carts and raised hell overem even u norcal and ddt, but now ur saying why did he do them ? You all asked him too. Geesh, ingreatful people.


Did I miss the post where I'm saying I dont want carts? I'm saying carts not useable for trade is just really sad. The main reason to have carts is to promote trade. Not haul stuff 10 feet in game.

Yes carts need to be in game, but having them not useable for trade or worthwhile for trade is a major problem and make them almost worthless.


xmechna (http://www.xsyon.com/forum/member.php/4273-xmechna),

You are just trying to troll here. Because we all know there are others here, which is why we are posting. Also when they agree with me then they are "my crew" and you are trying to discount them. How many PM's do you get saying "Keep up the good work" about your posts?
I get them all the time.


I don't think a decay system will ever close the gap and I honestly don't see a gap atm.

I come from Wurm a game that had caps and removed them as it did nothing to close any gap and it actually was keeping players away from the game. Here is why and it was the reason a lot of people quit playing because the game became a chore and wasn't fun. I and other people would log in to the game and notice this skill or that skill had decayed and I would spend hours trying to get my skill back to original levels then after that I would have at best a hour or two of game play of what I wanted to do, which everything required so much time to do so, I didn't get to do much of anything.

After weeks, months, and over a year of this and arguments on the forum regarding how the game was becoming a second job Rolf finally removed skill decay. No great apocalypse happened in fact people actually got to work on the things they liked instead of worrying about barely playing during the week and wasting a whole weekend fighting skill decay. If the game becomes a chore where you must spend all your free play time combating skill decay or coming off of vacation or a extended break with a massive loss to skill I think it will be more hurtful to bringing in players than closing a imaginary gap that doesn't exist.

All that is required is for skills to be made harder to level up and require a longer grind which will balance out everyone having all skills. If it takes a few months to level a skill then it will balance out in the end result. You will have people come and go and you'll have those who will always complain about a gap as they want easy mode and those people will never sit and grind their skills and scream for skill resets.


I think no skill decay is just as bad as huge amounts of skill decay.

There is a happy medium, I dont think wurms option of making it take years to level up a craft is a good one, as new players tend to quit because they cant do anything to help catch up.

The words "longer grind" isnt good for me, even though everyone here knows I can grind out with the best of them.

What I rather see is close the gap but make the last bit take longer and be effective. Meaning, you can get to 90 in a few weeks, but 90 to 100 takes months or years. The last 10 points sets you aside as that is your main focus. If you change to someone else 90 to 100, you will lose the first one. (Or some balance of # of 90 to 100 skills you can have).

You can say you spend your free time combating skill decay, however, thats only if there is decay over time not decay on train other skills. If you dont have decaying skills over time, and only when training OTHER skills there is no "combating skill decay" at all. You wont have any skill decay. Now if you choose to do many different things yes you will have skill decay if you try to make them all 100s.

[xmechna]

Why don't you focus on giving something of subtance instead of bashing DDT because it is the popular thing to do.

i'm not bashing ddt because it is the popular thing to do, i am bashing ddt because he is a never ending source of negativity on the forums and his current post was proof.


You are just trying to troll here. Because we all know there are others here, which is why we are posting. Also when they agree with me then they are "my crew" and you are trying to discount them. How many PM's do you get saying "Keep up the good work" about your posts?
I get them all the time.

i'm not saying "your crew" just because its another person that agrees with you they also sport your guild/tribe banner thats why im callin them your crew. on a side note i don't need a pat on the back for me to validate my own opinions.

personaly if i was trying to troll i would have added a your moma joke.

[zookeeper]

I personally don't like a limiting system where I am set in one thing and if I stray I'll be capped in others. I like doing different things but with a cap and skill decay I will never be able to compete if we go off the system where those skills I picked during account creation are the only ones that I can raise over 90 while the others will never reach a decent level and if it comes to armor and weapons I wouldn't even bother as it wouldn't be worth using. I just see people buying multiple accounts and those who are not capable falling to the way side as they can't compete.

[MrDDT]

i'm not bashing ddt because it is the popular thing to do, i am bashing ddt because he is a never ending source of negativity on the forums and his current post was proof.

.

i'm not saying "your crew" just because its another person that agrees with you they also sport your guild/tribe banner thats why im callin them your crew. on a side note i don't need a pat on the back for me to validate my own opinions.

personaly if i was trying to troll i would have added a your moma joke.

You just hit the nail on the head here with a troll post. Your whole post here is nothing but personal attacking. Instead of talking about the topic.



I personally don't like a limiting system where I am set in one thing and if I stray I'll be capped in others. I like doing different things but with a cap and skill decay I will never be able to compete if we go off the system where those skills I picked during account creation are the only ones that I can raise over 90 while the others will never reach a decent level and if it comes to armor and weapons I wouldn't even bother as it wouldn't be worth using. I just see people buying multiple accounts and those who are not capable falling to the way side as they can't compete.


I see it 100% the other way, lets just say you can ONLY have 1 skill and no others at 100% (not the system I want but using it as a baseline).

Then someone would need like 50 accounts to craft all the items.

If they did it in pools they would need 5+ accounts. I dont see how you think a system where some can spec into something getting 100 skill in it, and few others have 100 skill in it. Maybe some others have 2 accounts and leveled a few of the skills to 100. But even still, its better than the system is now, where people join a tribe and they are like "Oh what kind of crafter did you need?" "We dont need anything, we have 100 members that can do anything needed, just go out and have fun/gather"

People want to feel like they are the tailor or leather worker. Sure you can have 2 or 3 people that are tailors in a tribe, but if most people can do it or should do it, or have the hope of doing it. Then really everything is just spread out.
Can people focus without being forced to focus? Yes, but then again you will have too many vets with every skill in the book. Now if they do it your way and make it take years to level a skill to max, again new players feel like they cant catch up and want to play on new servers or have server wipes.

[Monfols]

interesting.

[Neo70]

Hello World of Xsyon !
I also thanks xsyon for the free Gametime. But i dont refresh my subscription before carts, taming, cooking and bow´s are in the game and work. So CU all, there was a fine communtiy, hope i see u soon.
ng
Neo_aus_Tirol

[Yuyito]

So you want nothing that actually adds to gameplay (except the PvE AI), want far more grind (decay), and want to completely bone any player who isn't in a huge clan (no safe zones, rare resources for huge clans who own cities only). In fact, judging by the taxes and tariffs you basically want to force everyone to grind for and support large clans. Nice. This summary isn't a strawman because anyone who can read can see that's exactly what the implication of those changes are. But keep making huge generalizations about gameplay and more claims of things that Without providing any supporting logic or evidence.

Gotta love the nolifers, at least the themepark players want something in the way of content. Nolifers just want to grind all day and slap around every player who's not in their zerg clan with their e-phallus. It really makes me wonder how insecure you have to be to lobby for the needed change in a game is to screw every player over who isn't in a huge clan and doesn't want to grind forever to just keep up with their decay.

Yes because the "care-bear" lovefest going inside safe zones is doing wonders for the game! But whatever, go ahead with your insults (nolifers? Really, best you can do?) if they make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. And no, adding a bit more danger doesn't have to equal massive zerg guilds killing everything in sight if the game is balanced correctly and offers other things to do. Have you even played other sandbox games?

[sunshiner]

lemme get this straight, you all bitch n moan n groan and everytime he does wat ya friggin ask, ya flip it around and say it shouldnt be done? WTH! This is why the devs need to ignore the community now and go with their PLAN, and stop listening to you all. For a long time u all wanted carts and raised hell overem even u norcal and ddt, but now ur saying why did he do them ? You all asked him too. Geesh, ingreatful people.

this is exactly what im trying to say, they reached a point where they REALLY needed to please the players to stay afloat so they made what the players where moaning for
and they did so whitout thinking about it.. and now when the feature is here everyone can see how stupid it was to ask for it.

when developers start to do such stuff its a bad thing.


interesting.

mortal online. ;)

[NorCalGooey]

No FB, I'm glad Xsyon listens to us. I just think the order of implementation is a bit off. IE carts before there is even a necessity to trade to obtain x or y item that you cannot create.

But since they don't seem to want to work out the other key issues with trading BEFORE implementing carts, they will immediately see the problems once the patch is live.

Trading will hardly increase at all. Believe me.



Enough with the player bashing and focus on debating the topic. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays everyone.

[Book]

Yeah...

Skill decay : I like the notion that in Xsyon, one could reinvent themselves as they see fit over time. Not tied to decisions made at character creation, but free to change careers mid-game-life. I honestly believe the people currently asking for skill decay are not doing so from this point of view. It seems to me this is more related to leet and prestige and, well, things I find boring and silly in real life already so why would I want to have to peddle these ideals in a virtual world?

I honestly believe the people currently pushing for skill decay will not be happy with the changes until the rest of the server feels precisely what zookeeper is talking about. Pretty good chance the people currently pushing for skill decay will then spew something about carebears or whatever but what customer base Xsyon is looking for is obviously entirely up to him.

Skill Cap : fun killer for me. Only for me? Apparently not, no. For my friend's birthday recently, I wanted to get some really good axes. I can't make really good axes. I'm not a weaponsmith. I don't even want to be a weaponsmith. I contacted a trusted source and asked him if he knew any top-notch weaponsmiths. He gave me a name, and off I went contacting that individual. I got a great trade out of it, and the weaponsmith got a recipe he had been looking for a long time.

There does not need to be skill caps for people to specialize and work together. There only needs to be people capable of working together. I don't mean people capable of directing others to work for them, I mean people who enjoy working together for the greater good on an equal footing. I've seen it happen pretty much daily, without skill caps.

If people felt they could not find a place in Industrial Strength where they would feel valued, they should have looked at leadership rather than game mechanics.

Death Penalty : Let's skip the lag and rollback issues at launch that already cost half the population before ebil carebears ruined Norcal's life and Xsyon's ever so lucrative investment opportunity Norcal was on the cusp of forking over... let's go back and take a look at how much giggling griefers were running around driving people out of game.

I know, I know, you don't believe they existed, whatever. Death Penalties will make that worse. Anyone telling you otherwise is planning to use this very mechanic to try and dominate others, NOT entertain others, but dominate them, too thick to realize anyone can just click the X at the top right and be done with it.

But hey, playerbase you want is the playerbase you get. Have fun with that.

Those are the three biggies in my opinion. Irks me that more time will be spent on resource distribution and combat tweaks when the very people that is meant to appease have yet to be appeased or happy about much of anything. No use rehashing the debate of why no-safe has to equal special little numbnut status with special treats... the playerbase you want is the playerbase you get.

[NorCalGooey]

Cool Book, just go against every idea that will make the game have substance. :P This isn't a personal attack on you, it is a discussion about your ideas, if you can tell the difference.

No death penalties? Are you kidding? Seriously? Why should people not fear death from mobs? It's not like we drop all loot upon death (which would be a good enough death penalty imo), so some sort of "debuff" or instant skill decay should happen upon death.

I'm not on the cusp of forking anything over. Any investment into Xsyon for an adverts push I wouldn't even CONSIDER making until next Summer. Hopefully by then the game has more substance and would actually keep more than 10% of the players who bought accounts. Like I said, I would be doing this to support the games survival and stimulate population growth, not turn a profit. However, if the more than 90% of the players quit within a month-three months, then what is the point? You can see why I'm so keen on expecting negative returns from an investment.

However, maybe Xsyon is currently turning a profit because dev. payroll and maintenance costs are so low. I do not know the finer details of this though. If so, then the game will never die due to lack of revenue. It would only die due to lack of developer interest in developing any further.

Book, we will be happy with skill decay, as it will create a need for crafters of all type (not just one ULTIMATE crafter like Unclean/Dang). The problem is, even if the crafting roles are split from a possible 1 crafter to needing 5+ pure crafters, that doesn't make the items crafted any more USEFUL. More RARE (because less can craft these items now than before) YES, but more USEFUL? No, not at all.

[MrDDT]

Yeah...

Skill decay : I like the notion that in Xsyon, one could reinvent themselves as they see fit over time. Not tied to decisions made at character creation, but free to change careers mid-game-life. I honestly believe the people currently asking for skill decay are not doing so from this point of view. It seems to me this is more related to leet and prestige and, well, things I find boring and silly in real life already so why would I want to have to peddle these ideals in a virtual world?

I honestly believe the people currently pushing for skill decay will not be happy with the changes until the rest of the server feels precisely what zookeeper is talking about. Pretty good chance the people currently pushing for skill decay will then spew something about carebears or whatever but what customer base Xsyon is looking for is obviously entirely up to him.

Skill Cap : fun killer for me. Only for me? Apparently not, no. For my friend's birthday recently, I wanted to get some really good axes. I can't make really good axes. I'm not a weaponsmith. I don't even want to be a weaponsmith. I contacted a trusted source and asked him if he knew any top-notch weaponsmiths. He gave me a name, and off I went contacting that individual. I got a great trade out of it, and the weaponsmith got a recipe he had been looking for a long time.

There does not need to be skill caps for people to specialize and work together. There only needs to be people capable of working together. I don't mean people capable of directing others to work for them, I mean people who enjoy working together for the greater good on an equal footing. I've seen it happen pretty much daily, without skill caps.

If people felt they could not find a place in Industrial Strength where they would feel valued, they should have looked at leadership rather than game mechanics.

Death Penalty : Let's skip the lag and rollback issues at launch that already cost half the population before ebil carebears ruined Norcal's life and Xsyon's ever so lucrative investment opportunity Norcal was on the cusp of forking over... let's go back and take a look at how much giggling griefers were running around driving people out of game.

I know, I know, you don't believe they existed, whatever. Death Penalties will make that worse. Anyone telling you otherwise is planning to use this very mechanic to try and dominate others, NOT entertain others, but dominate them, too thick to realize anyone can just click the X at the top right and be done with it.

But hey, playerbase you want is the playerbase you get. Have fun with that.

Those are the three biggies in my opinion. Irks me that more time will be spent on resource distribution and combat tweaks when the very people that is meant to appease have yet to be appeased or happy about much of anything. No use rehashing the debate of why no-safe has to equal special little numbnut status with special treats... the playerbase you want is the playerbase you get.


I understand everything you are saying here, which is the current game we have. You are happy with it? No, you are not as you have said so before. Heck you even quit for a long time because of the low player base before.

Leadership of a tribe does not change the fact that world trading is crap in this game. Killing people to transport items, trade bug issues, lack of tools to move items from one place to another, lack of tools to set up vendor type shops where you can display or even link your wears. Items lasting a very long time.

Not even getting into the fact that items have little effect on the things you are going to go do.

Combat tweaks are far from balanced at all. Resource distribution wasnt done in a way to make it work at all. They didnt listen to most of this stuff that was said from the combat people. Again they end up listening to the carebears that think players like me are here for personal gains to get advantages. I'm not here for my advantage, if I wanted that the current way would suit me as no one comes close to MrDDT so far in combat even crafting.

Domination isnt the only reason for these things, heck its not even the main reason. Its to stop people from exploiting the death porting, building economy, and its for making the world more fun for all.
Yes they can be like you run off into the woods and do everything yourself. You are the few that want to be like that, most players WANT to be part of something greater and feel they do things that others might not focus.
Can they do it in the current system yes, but its not going to be anything like where everyone would be forced to be either OK at most stuff, or Great at a few things.

You are trying to knock my tribe, clearly a personal tribe attack yet we have one of the most active tribes in game and have had it longer than anyone in game. Each time the "leadership" stops playing (mostly me) my tribe decays to few players active because really the leadership is only thing holding people here.

[Mactavendish]

Once more let's re-focus. You guy arguing over personal prefs instead of whats good for the game or even what's in the works will not get us anywhere.

To quote Jordi...

Specifically we are going to be working on the following:

(sorting into similar groups )

Skill and stat revision including balance, caps, decay and death penalties.
Faster tool, weapon and armor decay on use.
Comfort and weather effects on players.
Revised xp and levelling.
Further combat improvements.

With these, we will get Reason to craft, meaning for the things we craft, a re-leveling of overly strong players back towards a middle ground, All of which are positives with regard to game and retaining NEW players.

This changed affect the veteran players most, but must happen to improve the game.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Improved quest system, including gaining xp from quests.
Resource and material redistribution.
Further crafting revisions.
Trade system using local currencies.

These changes help us have the tools to start shaping the gameplay .

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Creature AI and difficulty, including the arrival of undead.

If even a part of what has been planned for the Undead happens we will have ongoing PVE content to help give folks lots to do.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Building uses.
Totem decay and abandonment.
Allowing tribes to remove their safe zones and gain advantages by doing so.

When new players are again joining this game these things need to be already in place and working. Best to go ahead and bite the bullet and do it now.

Plus allowing folks to remove safe zones will give meaning to walls, and provide the conflict the more pvp oriented players believe will keep things moving along.

Let's stop bickering among ourselves and get back on track.

[MrDDT]

Once more let's re-focus. You guy arguing over personal prefs instead of whats good for the game or even what's in the works will not get us anywhere.

To quote Jordi...

Specifically we are going to be working on the following:

(sorting into similar groups )

Skill and stat revision including balance, caps, decay and death penalties.
Faster tool, weapon and armor decay on use.
Comfort and weather effects on players.
Revised xp and levelling.
Further combat improvements.

With these, we will get Reason to craft, meaning for the things we craft, a re-leveling of overly strong players back towards a middle ground, All of which are positives with regard to game and retaining NEW players.

This changed affect the veteran players most, but must happen to improve the game.

None of these reasons listed above give reason to craft.

Reasons to craft are for things like. Making something wonderful or cool looking, making better gear to combat something you couldnt do before with poor gear. To achieve something in game. Making an item to make money/resource off it. (Really a secondary effect of a reason but still would be a reason if others are there.)

Having a cap doesnt give a reason to craft.
Comfort and weather effects only if there is reasons to worry about it. If say you lower comfort but you have no effect just "Comfort is low" then it wouldnt be are reason to wear anything. Its like bone armor now. Why wear bone armor now? To protect you better? Needs to be reason to protect first.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Improved quest system, including gaining xp from quests.
Resource and material redistribution.
Further crafting revisions.
Trade system using local currencies.

These changes help us have the tools to start shaping the gameplay .



I guess you could say they effect game play but mostly effect economy. Which is good.




-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Creature AI and difficulty, including the arrival of undead.

If even a part of what has been planned for the Undead happens we will have ongoing PVE content to help give folks lots to do.



Again not trying to be neg Nancy here, but without reasons to go fight undead and harder AI. This will just be more fluff. It would be like making trees 5x harder to chop down. Doesnt give a reason to have fun cutting the trees just makes it harder.

AI would have to be hella smart to make it just fun by itself. The resources for mutants are not even working yet, plus age of a mutant has no effect. So no reason to fight harder ones, or even small ones because resources dont work, and hard ones do not give better or more resources.




-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Building uses.
Totem decay and abandonment.
Allowing tribes to remove their safe zones and gain advantages by doing so.

When new players are again joining this game these things need to be already in place and working. Best to go ahead and bite the bullet and do it now.

Plus allowing folks to remove safe zones will give meaning to walls, and provide the conflict the more pvp oriented players believe will keep things moving along.

Let's stop bickering among ourselves and get back on track.

I love all this, this has been needed for a long time.
I would say with this, you would need some type of training area for new players to get used to what the game is like. Also keep animals away from the starting areas a bit so new players have a chance for living in the start.


All in all the devs have a lot of work cut out. I still think faster mode of transporting goods is much needed other than deathporting and should be one of the highest items on the list. Carts so far do not fit that bill. Dragging 50x of what I can carry, 3x slower is not going to help the current problem of people deathporting.

[NorCalGooey]

Seriously DDT, I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.

Mac, we haven't talked about personal preference ONCE. If you had any clue whatsoever, like the devs do, you would notice that more than ANYONE ELSE (literally he is #1), DDT posts ideas about purely improving the game.

How can you not see this? He hardly ever posts about anything other than game improvements, ideas, and bugs.

Like I said, twilight zone.






Back on topic, Xsyon needs a lot more of this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3sK3acLkCg&feature=player_embedded

[HyBrasil]

Stop listening to the community?

Yes!

Well, at least the forums. These days most game forums are a toilet.

This one has always had this peculiar ideological debate going on.

Yes, devs, please ignore the forums and get this game working fully.

[MrDDT]

Stop listening to the community?

Yes!

Well, at least the forums. These days most game forums are a toilet.

This one has always had this peculiar ideological debate going on.

Yes, devs, please ignore the forums and get this game working fully.


Most confusing post ever.

So they should listen to you posting on the forums about not reading the forums? haha.

Merry Christmas.

I'm sure they are working on tons of new stuff, and as always we should just wait and see. We can whine about it later ;)

[xmechna]

Skill and stat revision including balance, caps, decay and death penalties.
Faster tool, weapon and armor decay on use.
Comfort and weather effects on players.
Revised xp and levelling.
Further combat improvements.

With these, we will get Reason to craft, meaning for the things we craft, a re-leveling of overly strong players back towards a middle ground, All of which are positives with regard to game and retaining NEW players.

This changed affect the veteran players most, but must happen to improve the game.

i agree with this we will have the most basic reasons to craft along with other subtle ones, forcing vet players with 100 in everything to pick an chose ther're would be main professions and gear quality and durability with faster decaying items.lower quality break faster higher quality break slower the need to craft items as they break instead of items lasting to long and negating the need to craft.


Creature AI and difficulty, including the arrival of undead.

If even a part of what has been planned for the Undead happens we will have ongoing PVE content to help give folks lots to do.

this i really want roaming hordes of zombies they make good rp and undead are always fun to kill do you really need a reason to kill zombies ?

if you do take a look at my idea here http://www.xsyon.com/forum/project.php?issueid=1412

creature ai and difficulty
i have a feeling over half of the difficulty problem will be solved with skill decay,players who are 100 in every skill will no longer be demigods.
and with a adjustment to the creature ai faster turning speed to negate players side stepping/circling to easily, creatures being able to fight in the water, spreading out and not getting trapped at the waterfalls thus being able to roam the current world map.

[zookeeper]

+1 Book, good post.

NorCal you made a entire "I quit thread" that Jordi even responded in. No offense or personal attack intended but I can't and don't value your opinion or suggestions the same can be said for DDT because along with you two I know there is a personal agenda involved in anything you suggest. What may seem innocent and just your way of trying to help and improve any other arguments or suggestions that don't coincide with your own thoughts and beliefs you will just break down disassemble and refute each one to make your point seem more valid when in fact it isn't.

I'm done with this thread but I leave this final comment to Jordi and the other devs. Please discuss and work this out and determine what system you truly want to take. Do not shape this decision based on the player base and follow your original design and direction you want it to go not what I or anyone else wants. They are strictly for the game play they want and their vision for the game and not the community as a whole, no player will give input for the community as a whole, it will have personal gains and undertones to ensure the game play they seek no matter the cost to the game short or long term.

I've watched to many games take any and all player input to the detriment of the game as the end result. It's much easier to please the loudest than those who don't even participate on the forum and don't give input.

[stonedogg1]

And thank you very much for taking time to respond here to this thread!

I know you care and that you listen, but thought you needed to hear more on current sentiment express by those of us that have stuck it out.

I know you don't want Status quo, and really appreciate all the hard work you folks do to make this game fresh and different!

Ok...I've reread this entire thread. The above was really the last constructive addition to it. Thanks, Mac.

All the posts after it have had some element of the community atticking or defending - with a couple of small inspirational nuggets thrown in.

So we had 4 REALLY GOOD pages of expressing concern & offering solutions followed by four pages of shit.

I hate seeing threads derailed like this.

The developers have stated that they've read what was posted, offered some immediate plans of theirs, and explained why some of the plans are being pushed.

If folks want to argue about why this or that should or shouldn't be done, why don't you take it elsewhere. I'm sure the developers have better things to do than sift through accusations and flames.

Lets keep the rest of this post on track (if we can).

Luv u all!

[Jadzia]

+1 Book, good post.

NorCal you made a entire "I quit thread" that Jordi even responded in. No offense or personal attack intended but I can't and don't value your opinion or suggestions the same can be said for DDT because along with you two I know there is a personal agenda involved in anything you suggest. What may seem innocent and just your way of trying to help and improve any other arguments or suggestions that don't coincide with your own thoughts and beliefs you will just break down disassemble and refute each one to make your point seem more valid when in fact it isn't.

I'm done with this thread but I leave this final comment to Jordi and the other devs. Please discuss and work this out and determine what system you truly want to take. Do not shape this decision based on the player base and follow your original design and direction you want it to go not what I or anyone else wants. They are strictly for the game play they want and their vision for the game and not the community as a whole, no player will give input for the community as a whole, it will have personal gains and undertones to ensure the game play they seek no matter the cost to the game short or long term.

I've watched to many games take any and all player input to the detriment of the game as the end result. It's much easier to please the loudest than those who don't even participate on the forum and don't give input.

Very true and smart words.

[NorCalGooey]

So because I think some suggestions or ideas of mine would make the game better or more fun for the majority of players, that makes it personal?

All of a sudden it is bad to debate why others ideas don't make sense?

Also, I did quit yes. I haven't played since. I tried logging in to play but it's just so boring I can't do it. I need to do something other than click and wait for a progress bar.

Anyway, think whatever you want. I will invest in this game if I think it's headed in the right direction one day. I can't imagine Jordi was thinking of doing real adverts sooner than Summer anyways. Game still needs a lot of work.

[fatboy21007]

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/7698-Peace-Xsyon

I call bullshit on that norcal, you have been playing since then :-P

[NorCalGooey]

I logged on a few times to do some testing, one of which included clear cutting you (testing the devs here).

Logging in for maybe 10 hours in 2 months when I used to easily do at least 100 hours in a month (a lot of which was spent building an awesome and huge city that nobody will ever use). I've gotten sick of doing this basically for no reason except hoping that one day the game would be great and my efforts wouldn't be for nothing. However, like DDT, I'm high level and see no reason to grind out the last few levels to gain a tiny bit more HP.

That's all you can really do. Build a cool area (best part of the game) and grind your skills so you can have lots of hit points.

At this point I think it would be better to give the free time with their new "PvP improvements" whatever they are. Then once territory warfare is FINALLY implemented, start a 7 day free trial that begins when they first log in. Free trials can join tribes and start a homestead, but they cannot dig (for obvious landscape destruction reasons). After the free trial ends, if they do not buy the game within another 7 days, the totem disappears (but all items remain).