Tribe Decay System

[MrDDT]

January 20 2012

Hello Xsyon Citizens!

The server and client have been updated with a minor patch.

Patch Notes:
- Fixed server side issue with some mutant animations.
- Increased allowable depth for carts crossing rivers. This will be revised later when we implement bridges.
- Totem decay system implemented with consequences turned off.

The Totem decay system will work as follows:
Each time a tribe member interacts with the tribe totem, the totem and tribe are set to 'active'.
The more time passes without any activity from a tribe member, the totem 'decays' to the next stage.

The planned stages of Totems are:
- Active
- Neglected - This is just a warning stage.
- Deserted - At this stage bins and bundles left on the ground will be accessible to other players and the tribe will not be a safe zone.
- Abandoned - At this stage undead will spawn within the tribe zone.
- Removed - At this point the Totem is removed, the land can be claimed by another tribe and all buildings and objects become accessible.

We are currently preparing and testing this system. None of these consequences will apply to the main server until this system is announced to all players with advanced warning. For now you will be able to see at what stage other tribes are by viewing their Totem info.

We will be testing Totem removal on the Test Server today. The Test Server will be available to the public within a few hours.

Enjoy!



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Great job. Really looking forward to this. I think its will be a good system and fun to see some undead spawning from them.

[dem1urge]

January 20 2012
<snippage>
- Abandoned - At this stage undead will spawn within the tribe zone.
<snippage>
------------------------------------------------------

Great job. Really looking forward to this. I think its will be a good system and fun to see some undead spawning from them.

Personally, I'd like to know the time ranges for each stage. Also, I'd like to see the 'undead stage' persist for quite a while so players can get some enjoyment out of it.

I echo MrDDTs sentiment: Great job!

[Niburu]

I'am on the test server right now. I checked out a tribe and the totem says "Tribe Deserted: 7 days since last activity" but i can't open the bins or grab the ressources on the tribe area.

[MrDDT]

I'am on the test server right now. I checked out a tribe and to totem says "Tribe Deserted: 7 days since last activity" but i can't open the bins or grab the ressources on the tribe area.

I think it might be longer for that stage to happen.

[Niburu]

I think it might be longer for that stage to happen.

you should read Xsyons post


Deserted - At this stage bins and bundles left on the ground will be accessible to other players and the tribe will not be a safe zone.

[MrDDT]

You are correct. My bad.

I cant access them either.

[Niburu]

i forgive you :-P ^^

[banden]

A thought occurs though guys, if the baskets are set to private they wont be accesible to you even if the tribe is abandoned, but then they have stated that those permissions will be revised, I think. Its all a little fuzzy, Im riding a coffee high atm.

The timers on the test server might just be for testing at a reasonable timeframe.. Xsyon in testing thread says:


- Totem Decay System
Tribes will be removed after 12 game days have elapsed on the Test Server.

[MrDDT]

A thought occurs though guys, if the baskets are set to private they wont be accesible to you even if the tribe is abandoned, but then they have stated that those permissions will be revised, I think. Its all a little fuzzy, Im riding a coffee high atm.

The timers on the test server might just be for testing at a reasonable timeframe.. Xsyon in testing thread says:


Its also bundles and logs.

Plus it gives the msg "You cant do that here" which is a tribal message not a permissions one.

If they are only testing the other part of it, then really doesnt need players to test it =P

[banden]

Ah, that is true.

[fatboy21007]

all Hail the dev's! Bow before the dev gods!. Imagine folks when this goes live, n one of us get that damn cart made, How much fun we will be having scavenging and raiding all these left over bins! Btw, probally gonna need a Zombie removal squad, theirs like 1k+ abandon totems ingame, thats gonne be 1 hell of a undead pop haha!

[Lhowatt]

all Hail the dev's! Bow before the dev gods!. Imagine folks when this goes live, n one of us get that damn cart made, How much fun we will be having scavenging and raiding all these left over bins! Btw, probally gonna need a Zombie removal squad, theirs like 1k+ abandon totems ingame, thats gonne be 1 hell of a undead pop haha!

This sounds like a lot of fun!

These old tribe lands are ruins that we can explore and pillage!

[thurgond]

Lets hope that free time staggers out the decay timers so all abandoned tribes don't go into zombie mode at the same time.

Maybe the number of zombies a totem spawns can be based on the size of the tribe-- 1 for homestead, 2 for band, 3 for clan, and 4 for tribe.

Ravelli

[Xsyon]

We're only testing the 'tribe removal' phase right now. That will kick in tonight and then we'll reset the data and timers and test some more. I will announce when we're testing the additional 'consequences' such as bins losing permissions.

Sorry for any confusion. :-)

[xMSy09x]

When will it be on? Me and my guild can't expand becouse there are too many inactive tribes around us.Can you do this update quickly?
Is a real problem for us.

Areston - GM of Little Italy.

[banden]

Areston, the problem is that they cant activate the decay on the live server until the players who left us since launch has had fair warning that their tribe is soon going to dissappear, so there is probably no chance at doing this quickly. You just have to be patient with it.

[xMSy09x]

Is not our problem. They have lefted the game? Is not my problem, at the moment i am paying the game, not they. And their stupid 1 member tribe are desturbing the game of my tribe (9 members). You want to advertise old members? Simply, send them a newsletter via email.

We are 9 living in a tribe space for 1.

[Supermox]

I think we need the totem decay because a lot of ground (trees, resources, etc..) are unusable for some totem with only 1 member. Too inactive totem. I'm getting tired of this situation!!

[xMSy09x]

How many time we have to wait for the update?

[wrangler]

I agree as a new player it's a hard to find your own place since all the good spots have totems over 100s days inactive. Pull the plug devs and start getting rid of them.

[Supermox]

How many time we have to wait for the update?

[Niburu]

This month, thats atleast how i interprete the last updates.

[banden]

People, it will be out and active when its done and mails have been sent out to inactive players. You will just have to be patient with it, everyone whos stuck with this game has allready been very patient, maybe you should follow their example.

Oh and the warning for inactive players has been discussed, thoroughly. It was promised that there would be a warning before decay went active, in the end its only fair that they get proper warning, they paid for the game aswell, so drop it.

[reejan]

Are you guys honestly saying that you have nothing in game to do (no skills to improve no scavenging nothing ) you just have time to whine about a patch that's more than likely over a month away personally I'm trying to build in the bit of land I got safely so I don't get overrun by zombies

If you can't wait patiently then you are in the wrong game

"End rant "

[Aethaeryn]

The one thing that I have been waiting for to return at this point is totem decay. I bet a lot of players will come back. One complaint was always the lower population. If people get a warning and know they can come back to their old haunt they will likely check it out for at least one month. . some will stay longer.

warning players solves 2 problems. . 1 - possible increase in players 2 - people will come back for varying amounts of time so you will not have 95% zombiesteads all at once.

Once this is in I will be coming back for sure. Now I wish I hadn't deleted my character to start over because I was bored. The old place was nice :)

[dem1urge]

zombiesteads

Heh, "zombiesteads", I like that. Though, I'll call'm Zomsteads just to be different. ;o)

[znaiika]

As a solo player:!!!
I hope that no one could loot my stuff after my tribe being deserted, there are many reasons, such as family, real life, maybe inaccessible internet, etc, etc, etc...
If something happens to all my stuff that I put my time in? I will be long gone to another game.
I hope there will be protection to solo players, from PVP bashes and time decay.
I don't mind PVP but if it is reasonable with loot choices or even tribe destruction, if opposed players agreed to those terms.
You can implement totem decays to multiple member tribes, but please keep solo players protected, there is a reason why solo player choosing to play solo.

[Niburu]

As a solo player:!!!
I hope that no one could loot my stuff after my tribe being deserted, there are many reasons, such as family, real life, maybe inaccessible internet, etc, etc, etc...
If something happens to all my stuff that I put my time in? I will be long gone to another game.
I hope there will be protection to solo players, from PVP bashes and time decay.
I don't mind PVP but if it is reasonable with loot choices or even tribe destruction, if opposed players agreed to those terms.
You can implement totem decays to multiple member tribes, but please keep solo players protected, there is a reason why solo player choosing to play solo.
So they can block important areas ? lol

[Jadzia]

As a solo player:!!!
I hope that no one could loot my stuff after my tribe being deserted, there are many reasons, such as family, real life, maybe inaccessible internet, etc, etc, etc...
If something happens to all my stuff that I put my time in? I will be long gone to another game.
I hope there will be protection to solo players, from PVP bashes and time decay.
I don't mind PVP but if it is reasonable with loot choices or even tribe destruction, if opposed players agreed to those terms.
You can implement totem decays to multiple member tribes, but please keep solo players protected, there is a reason why solo player choosing to play solo.

I believe they said that totem decay will only effect abandoned totems, as long as you are subscribed your totem will be safe and healthy.

[Willowhawk]

I believe they said that totem decay will only effect abandoned totems, as long as you are subscribed your totem will be safe and healthy.

I found the post explaining totem decay. It looks like you need to log in and click on the totem to keep it from decaying.

"The Totem decay system will work as follows:
Each time a tribe member interacts with the tribe totem, the totem and tribe are set to 'active'.
The more time passes without any activity from a tribe member, the totem 'decays' to the next stage.

The planned stages of Totems are:
- Active
- Neglected - This is just a warning stage.
- Deserted - At this stage bins and bundles left on the ground will be accessible to other players and the tribe will not be a safe zone.
- Abandoned - At this stage undead will spawn within the tribe zone.
- Removed - At this point the Totem is removed, the land can be claimed by another tribe and all buildings and objects become accessible.

We are currently preparing and testing this system. None of these consquences will apply to the main server until this system is announced to all players with advanced warning. For now you will be able to see at what stage other tribes are by viewing their Totem info."

[MrDDT]

Yeah, from what it looks like on the test server (and live server) it doesn't have to do with active accounts, it has to do with a member of that totem right clicking the totem. You right click the totem, it will reset the age of decay to 0.

You could have 100 active members if none right click the totem, it will decay away.

[Jadzia]

I found the post explaining totem decay. It looks like you need to log in and click on the totem to keep it from decaying.

"The Totem decay system will work as follows:
Each time a tribe member interacts with the tribe totem, the totem and tribe are set to 'active'.
The more time passes without any activity from a tribe member, the totem 'decays' to the next stage.

The planned stages of Totems are:
- Active
- Neglected - This is just a warning stage.
- Deserted - At this stage bins and bundles left on the ground will be accessible to other players and the tribe will not be a safe zone.
- Abandoned - At this stage undead will spawn within the tribe zone.
- Removed - At this point the Totem is removed, the land can be claimed by another tribe and all buildings and objects become accessible.

We are currently preparing and testing this system. None of these consquences will apply to the main server until this system is announced to all players with advanced warning. For now you will be able to see at what stage other tribes are by viewing their Totem info."

Thanks for finding the post. It will no doubt cause some problems...players who are on vacation, with no net for 2-3 months, family issues and so on...if they are willing to pay their subscription while they can't play then their property should be safe imo. This is up to the devs of course, but pissing off a paying customer doesn't seem to be a good marketing decision. Perhaps we should raise this question in the weekly Q/A thread.

[Willowhawk]

I agree, if I am paying my subscription my tribe should stay active. I think perhaps they were attempting to protect the tribe members in the event that the owner of the tribe account cancels their subscription the active tribe members can still keep the tribe alive by clicking on the totem. Maybe they can add a provision that as long as the account owner has an paid subscription the totem will stay active.

[MrDDT]

Thanks for finding the post. It will no doubt cause some problems...players who are on vacation, with no net for 2-3 months, family issues and so on...if they are willing to pay their subscription while they can't play then their property should be safe imo. This is up to the devs of course, but pissing off a paying customer doesn't seem to be a good marketing decision. Perhaps we should raise this question in the weekly Q/A thread.


Even worse is pissing off people that do play AND pay.

From my exp, active people playing your game is much better than inactive people paying for the game. Why? Because inactivity breeds more inactivity. Sure maybe 1 out of 10 people keep paying for an account they dont use. But how many people do you know that log onto the game/tribe/clan whatever see no one on or few people online and log off. They do that enough, and they end up not logging in again. Then they say why am I even paying for a game I dont play. Its a spiral effect.

Now look at the other option. You must at least log in to "refresh" your totem once every 1.5 months. Now you see someone is online, you start talking, next thing you know you are having fun and they are having fun, then you tell your friend and they log in and you having fun with all your friends again.

Having a paying customer NOT play your game is a bad thing. Few people I know will quit because they have to refresh their totem once every 1.5 months. If you are not using your totem every 1.5 months and you cant get a friend to help you out. Then sounds like you were not likely going to care about your stuff anyways and were not really playing.

[joexxxz]

@ MrDDT. I totally agree with you.

First of, is Jadzia currently in any tribe???

[Jadzia]

Maybe they can add a provision that as long as the account owner has an paid subscription the totem will stay active.

I hope they will.



First of, is Jadzia currently in any tribe???
Nope, I'm free...why ? Would you like to invite me ? :p

[banden]

Well we have allready discussed this to the point of exhaution. Totem decay based on activity is only really an inconvenience to 1 man tribe solo players and tbh if you have gone away inexpectedly out of reach of the internet for more than a month without any way of making arrangements with a friend or others, then I think its likely that your tribe in Xsyon might be the least of your worries. The scenario I find most likely is being stranded on a deserted island with no hope of rescue or internet access. So yeah Im happy that they went with it like this, I know you dont agree Jadzia but I sincerely doubt that Xsyon will lose players to this. :)

To reiterate: If you lose your stuff under the system that is planned, it is a result of bad choices on the part of the player not because the system is flawed.

[znaiika]

They could do the following!!!
If the player isn't active for 2 month minimum, then totem is removed and all the stuff player have, will be stored in safe location, except for any structures, once that player decide to come back? then the option should be given in which location he want to start, much like at character creation window, once in the world player find a place to place a totem, after placing totem all his baskets/stuff should be placed around totem, so player don't loose any stuff he spends time for.
I think this will not piss people off and Xsyon will have more customers happy and the Xsyon world clean.
And totem decay should be based on active subs not on clicks, if a customer paying to stay subbed that along says that player still active and want to come back, even if he's not loged in.

[aliksteel]

What ever happen to the idea of having to feed your totem?

I think I will like the way they are planning on doing it now, But I also liked the idea of feeding the totem, Feeding the totem would do two things. It would show that you are at lest simi-active. And I just thought of this, You could add extra for when you know your going to be gone for a long time. And it would also add as an item sink for the game.

But like I said, I think I will like the way it is being setup now. I also think it would be better to get this in game now(I know the emails will have to be sent out first) and then work on it later if they need to, So that we can start having the lands cleared up.



They could do the following!!!
If the player isn't active for 2 month minimum, then totem is removed and all the stuff player have, will be stored in safe location, except for any structures, once that player decide to come back?

Not sure how much data room this game has. To me, and I don't know crap about this type of thing, But it seems after a time. This could make the game laggy, But I may be way off and holding data like this may be nothing.

[MrDDT]

They could do the following!!!
If the player isn't active for 2 month minimum, then totem is removed and all the stuff player have, will be stored in safe location, except for any structures, once that player decide to come back? then the option should be given in which location he want to start, much like at character creation window, once in the world player find a place to place a totem, after placing totem all his baskets/stuff should be placed around totem, so player don't loose any stuff he spends time for.
I think this will not piss people off and Xsyon will have more customers happy and the Xsyon world clean.
And totem decay should be based on active subs not on clicks, if a customer paying to stay subbed that along says that player still active and want to come back, even if he's not loged in.


Do you plan on taking 2 month breaks with active subs? Because this is nothing like the plan they have coming forth. Right now you have inactive totems of inactive accounts littering the area.

Ive been around since day 1. The people that start playing again, you know what a lot of them do? (Not the big massive tribe ones) they restart their toon and can care less about the items they lost.

Anyone that has been playing for a long time, most of their items are about worthless and out of date. They end up not bringing more than the stuff on their backs with them to the tribe and then end up saying "Why did I worry about this crap".

I dont think anyone told that they would lose their stuff after 1.5months would be upset when they are gone for 2 months and its gone. Remember the most vital part is the toon itself as the skills are more important than the items. The toon itself is never going to be deleted.

[joexxxz]

Good point MrDDT. Plus there is going to be a quality loss on items anyway over time.

[znaiika]

No I am not planing on taking a break but accidents can happen to anyone even you, so yes, if anyone is still paying for their account that means he still care about hes invested time, and hes investments should stay protected.
There are a lot of players that are un-subbed, I agree those should be cleaned after two month and his things are stored and then destroyed after a year.
There should nothing be left for free loot to anyone, everyone should gather things on their own and trade with each other.

[banden]

No I am not planing on taking a break but accidents can happen to anyone even you, so yes, if anyone is still paying for their account that means he still care about hes invested time, and hes investments should stay protected.
There are a lot of players that are un-subbed, I agree those should be cleaned after two month and his things are stored and then destroyed after a year.
There should nothing be left for free loot to anyone, everyone should gather things on their own and trade with each other.

First of all, this is the system that the Devs have decided on, this is what is being tested, a lot of the community support how the devs want this to work, but even if there was no support, they should still impliment it like this, because it IS the best way to do it. Players are accountable for their tribe and for their items, if they lose their shit Its is a result of bad choices on the part of the player, not because the system is flawed. Bolded for emphasis, I suppose you missed it the first time I posted this. Yes accidents happen, but 1.5 month of inactivity and no reaction from the player is not just an "accident" thats either a coma or a planecrash on a deserted island, like I stated in the first post, if these things have happened then Xsyon should be the last thing on your mind.

Second of all, in this and in many other aspects of the game you cannot and should not expect the game to be planned out for every possible stupidity the player can commit. If you manage to fuck somethig up for yourself hopefully you learn from the experience and become smarter as a result.

It is pretty much a moot point and I am not going to engage in another long discussion of this subject because wehve allready discussed this to the point of exhaustion, if you are interested in the finer points of totem decay and upkeep and whatever else there is to discuss about totems, I refer you to the 14 pages long discussion: http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/7740-Allow-tribes-to-expand-please.

[znaiika]

I can see why you want totem to decay, in that case? It is a good point at some point, still when totem expires all the stuff should be stored in the safe place, and when player come back he should have all the things back.
I also would like to see player made structures to decay as well, and things like carts also and should have an option to repair, as long if you have woodworking skill at minimum 25.

[MrDDT]

I can see why you want totem to decay, in that case? It is a good point at some point, still when totem expires all the stuff should be stored in the safe place, and when player come back he should have all the things back.
I also would like to see player made structures to decay as well, and things like carts also and should have an option to repair, as long if you have woodworking skill at minimum 25.


How do you propose they have these things back? Also which player gets it? What if its the leader of a 200 person totem?

[znaiika]

You have a point there about items, then the items should be destroyed with the totem and all structures as well, leaving clean area.

[MrDDT]

You have a point there about items, then the items should be destroyed with the totem and all structures as well, leaving clean area.


Well currently the plan is to just leave that area as open for people to loot however they wish. I dont see a reason to destroy the items and once decay starts setting in, those items will disappear over time.

I wouldnt mind people getting the items if they dont log in after so long, but I think it would take a lot of coding for really very little reward out of it. Most of the items in this game are next to worthless, its about toon skills and building your world.

[Aethaeryn]

Ive been around since day 1. The people that start playing again, you know what a lot of them do? (Not the big massive tribe ones) they restart their toon and can care less about the items they lost.

Anyone that has been playing for a long time, most of their items are about worthless and out of date. They end up not bringing more than the stuff on their backs with them to the tribe and then end up saying "Why did I worry about this crap".


That is what I did. . although now I regret it. :)

[Hodo]

I didnt restart, I took what was available from my tribes baskets, things I figured I would need... I forgot a few things mind you, but I am doing alright without them for now. But that is offtopic.

I do however see things going the route of Wurm Online, that in a few years there will be left overs of a few hundred if settlements and structures that were built months if not years prior and left, and then they decayed over time. But the earthworks staying the same, so you will end up with these massive earthwork structures that are left like the Indian Mounds in the Southern US.

[jemmus]

People, it will be out and active when its done and mails have been sent out to inactive players. You will just have to be patient with it, everyone whos stuck with this game has allready been very patient, maybe you should follow their example.

Oh and the warning for inactive players has been discussed, thoroughly. It was promised that there would be a warning before decay went active, in the end its only fair that they get proper warning, they paid for the game aswell, so drop it.
I'm inactive and I didn't get an email. Are you guys looting all my nails? Am I a zombie now? : )

[Julesig]

It is only my first day of game, but if i may say, totem decay is an emergency!!! When you come in the world, the only thing you see is "trash"... Totems unused since 185 days minimally.
You walk a bit to find a land to set your own little world and begin to learn... but.... you can walk all around the lake, there is no place to set your own totem!!!
Really annoying... I was ready to leave the game. I finally begun somewhere to learn, without a totem. I understood the totem isn't finally a big thing, but you can't set a "nest" for yourself.
And i don't speak of horrible ghost houses or terraformed land people made which trap you....
I can understand the game dont have best graphics, etc..... but this issue is really destroying the pleasure you take when you beginn this game.
(sorry for my english.... i'm french... ;-))

[Hodo]

And i don't speak of horrible ghost houses or terraformed land people made which trap you....
I can understand the game dont have best graphics, etc..... but this issue is really destroying the pleasure you take when you beginn this game.
(sorry for my english.... i'm french... ;-))

And this is another HUGE problem, that will only become worse if left unchecked over time.

[Book]

Salut Julesig!

I know how you feel. Totem decay is one of the very next things to go into game though, almost there. It will take some time for things to actually decay.

This will eventually take care of how available land is, and will allow people to dismantle ghost houses if they want.
The terraformed land made to trap you is another matter. That will not automatically revert back to its original condition but will need a concerted effort by friendly members of the community to travel around and fix.
Kind of like a Xsyon Environmental Reconstruction Effort :)

Good luck in there, and don't worry, your English is way better than most people's French :).

Oh, and juste une note d'attention, if you die without a totem, you will wake up on a mysterious island to the north said to be inhabited by strange spirits the locals call "guides." They are often helpful and friendly, but a few are said to wear evil pumpkins on their heads with horns!

Safe travels and bonne chance!

[Julesig]

Thanks for your answers ! I will be here to terraform once the "Xyon Environmental Reconstruction Effort" will be able able to work !
I already died and wondered a long time where i landed ! ;-)

Thanks, see you ingame !

[znaiika]

Totem decay should be based on payed accounts, or this system will become exploitable, people who have many accounts would just drop totems and not resetting them to spawn zombies.