Back... but less vocal.

[Mactavendish]

Here is what you can expect of me ( LaughingOak ) and my tribe Pawnee...

We will be traders and builders. Our plan is to become adept at advance building techniques and build some of the most interesting structures in the game.

We have no interest in PVP. Aside from hunting animals and defending against zombies, we are not interested in aggression, revenge, or conquest. We leave that to players that want that.

We have a pretty large area and are looking for more members of like mind. Our totem will not be decaying, ( sorry fatboy no pillaging here ) and we will continue to grow and expand.

We will not be vocal here on the forums. Too much whining and politics are already here and we don't feel the need to add to that. We do not care what other tribes politics are but reserve the right to chose who we trade with.

I personally plan on being more cautious than before and do not want to be involved in petty conflicts.

[Jadzia]

Welcome back Mac :) Hope you will enjoy the game now even more than before.

[MrDDT]

You should tell your people to stay out of our area and stop trying to grief -IS-.

[Shaggy]

You should tell your people to stay out of our area and stop trying to grief -IS-.

And so it begins... <grabs popcorn>

[Willowhawk]

Glad to see you back Mac! :)

[aliksteel]

Welcome back Mac

[Mactavendish]

You should tell your people to stay out of our area and stop trying to grief -IS-.

This one is really pretty funny...

Description of Poisoning the Well

This sort of "reasoning" involves trying to discredit what a person might later claim by presenting unfavorable information (be it true or false) about the person. This "argument" has the following form:

Unfavorable information (be it true or false) about person A is presented.
Therefore any claims person A makes will be false.

This sort of "reasoning" is obviously fallacious. The person making such an attack is hoping that the unfavorable information will bias listeners against the person in question and hence that they will reject any claims he might make. However, merely presenting unfavorable information about a person (even if it is true) hardly counts as evidence against the claims he/she might make. This is especially clear when Poisoning the Well is looked at as a form of ad Homimem in which the attack is made prior to the person even making the claim or claims.

Poisoning the Well is not, strictly speaking, a logical fallacy since it is not a type of argument. Rather, it is a logical boobytrap set by the poisoner to tempt the unwary audience into committing an ad hominem fallacy. As with all forms of the ad hominem, one should keep in mind that an argument can and must stand or fall on its own, regardless of who makes it.

So of the two members that are active in my tribe, both of which are non-aggressive and non-pvp what evidence do you provide that demonstrates conclusively that either of us has ever tried to grief anyone else?

Are you so threatened by two non-pvp players or the comments we may make that you feel it important to poison discussions before they even happen?

P.S. Before anyone thinks otherwise, I am simply responding to an obvious attack on Pawnee character, and would encourage any player to interact with us and see if we prove to be friendly, non-aggressive, and fair.

[China]

P.S. Before anyone thinks otherwise, I am simply responding to an obvious attack on Pawnee character, and would encourage any player to interact with us and see if we prove to be friendly, non-aggressive, and fair.

I will vouch for Mac - truly a fine player and a very nice man. Let's put an end to the viciousness of nefarious players and their ad hominem attacks against others playing Xsyon.

I challenge the other players to step up and also vouch for him. All in favor! Say Aye!

China

[eric]

While I have no interest in getting myself involved in the pointless discussion Mac and DDT usually entertain themselves with..

I do however (following China's lead in this) 'step up' so to say: Aye!

Welcome back MacT!

[Tesla]

Aye! IMO, and based on my interactions with Oak, the Pawnee are among the friendliest, most honest, and non agressive characters in this world.

Hartley/Brees

[Gustaph]

LaughingOak (Mac), lives very near to me. I have never found him to be anything other than friendly and polite. Both in personal dealings and in what he has said in local.

I cannot see him griefing, or sanctioning griefing. It just doesn't fit.

Gustaph.

[MrDDT]

This one is really pretty funny...

So of the two members that are active in my tribe, both of which are non-aggressive and non-pvp what evidence do you provide that demonstrates conclusively that either of us has ever tried to grief anyone else?

Are you so threatened by two non-pvp players or the comments we may make that you feel it important to poison discussions before they even happen?

P.S. Before anyone thinks otherwise, I am simply responding to an obvious attack on Pawnee character, and would encourage any player to interact with us and see if we prove to be friendly, non-aggressive, and fair.


Soakerl still in your tribe correct?

[Willowhawk]

"You should tell your people to stay out of our area and stop trying to grief -IS-."

And all this time I thought they were PVP'ers, go figure. :rolleyes:

[MrDDT]

"You should tell your people to stay out of our area and stop trying to grief -IS-."

And all this time I thought they were PVP'ers, go figure. :rolleyes:

Oaks version of "PVP" is what most people would call griefing. Here are a few clips of what he wants to call "PVP"



You may think this would get boring fast, but in actuality it lead to very creative ways of doing PvP even though the game did not allow players to even bump into eachother much less strike them with a weapon.

There was the typical train mobs onto your enemy, and the ever popular steal a mobs or steal a resources a player was gathering. But that is mere childsplay.


There was also the aspect of cornering a market in some crafted item. Someone would be seeling easy to make items at an inflated price, You could them work together with others and flood the market with lower priced items and watch as the first seller depleted his funds buying your cheaper items and re-listing them at higher prices, until he just could not do it anymore and you would continue flooding and finally establish a newer more reasonable price that folks woul dbuy and soon all the other high priced items would disappear.

Then there was the truly gratifying times when a group of macroers would be attempting to farm mobs for some special resource or loot, and because you were much more powerful and faster keep them from getting the mobs by just tagging them all first.

These are forms of pvp that were considered valid in the game Horizons, since you could not directly interact with other players directly. Xsyon has direct interactions between players, so much of what was seen in Horizons as pvp, would be considered griefing here.

( added for clarity : I am not proposing that ANYONE grief another player for any reason. All I am doing here is showing how others found ways to interact with other players in a PVE game that had no direct way to interact or pvp. In Xsyon we have pvp, and the ability to interact directly with players. Grief as it stand is the act of interfering with a players ability to enjoy the game. Examples in Xsyon could include, Verbal abuse that is racist, sexual, or hostile to a players person, removing all trees in an area to prevent players from enjoying crafting or building, paving over junk piles to prevent gathering needed resources. I and My tribe are TOTALLY against such tactics, and will never do such things. Our tribe members are not allowed to grief others in anyway. )



Training mobs onto people? Tagging mobs before others just so they cant get loot? (doesnt apply here as its FFA PVP and full looting)

Any other game would call this harassment, or griefing. Yet here in Xsyon we dont have these problems and Mac wants to add these things to the game???

Also he lists that paving over junk piles and cutting trees in someone else's zone as "griefing" yet his tribe does it.

Sorry if I dont care for these types of tactics. He does bring up great points about other things, being the best crafters, and making cool buildings and stuff. However, these other things are just down right dirty and something I would hate seen into this game, or any game. I'm happy Xsyon doesnt have some of these problems.

With safe zones it does have other abuse problems, and no risk of death. Any game can have griefing no matter the rules though.

[Willowhawk]

I'm not even going to waste my time reading that LOL. It was a joke, get over it.

[Shaggy]

And so it begins... <grabs popcorn>

Did I not call it? :P

[Mactavendish]

Yes you did Shaggy ;P

This is the nature of forums. People can say anything at all.

It is up to the reader to either blinding believe the comments of one poster over another.

The best way to do this is to go get IN game and see what people OTHER than the opponents say about both sides of an argument.

If you find that one side has been the object of the grief, then you will know the story.

Daniels claims are of course unfounded. It is merely his word you must take to believe him. No evidence is given, no examples. If on the other hand players can give you examples of ddt or his crew griefing, then you have the full story.

I will not point out any actions nor excuse anything I have done. Because I know and the current players know what I have and have not done. :)

So dear reader, this will be my last comment on anything IS has to say. From now on... IS or their members do not exist as far as I am concerned.

Have a nice day!

P.S. the last paragraph of what he quoted tells the tale. I do not want any such thing as clear cutting ( very old history ) or paving junk piles ( even older history ) And with all the trees we have now what would anyone even bother to clear cut? And I have never paved over junk piles. Again it matters not what a person says it matters what they do.

[MrDDT]

Of course what we have to say wont matter when its bad right?

You didnt answer the question either. Soakerl a member of your tribe comes to grief IS, yet you dont kick him out. If you wish I have screen shots to show you. When you already know. All I ask is that you keep your people out of our area, and you try to say the claims are unfounded.

[Mactavendish]

Some people just like to see their own words in print.

I was not playing during the time any ( supposed ) event happened , but I have to wonder why the single most invulnerable player in the game feels threatened by anyone else. It sounds pretty childish after all the grief he has done to others.

Besides, I am in favor of mercy towards anyone that is willing to change and stick to our rules. Soakerl has proven to me since my return that he will abide byt what we stand for so I have no issues with him.

We really don't need to see you name attached to all posts. Even if you seem to.