Disable Attack in water.

[znaiika]

Can we get an official answer to the question of pulling animals into the water to kill them where they cant fight back? Is this a valid tactic or not? Getting mixed reports from players/guides.

Sorry DDT for taking this out from Q/A
I want to start this thread to discuss about attacking animals in water.
I think, or should I say, in my opinion, is best to disable ability to attack animals for humans in water as well, that is much simpler solution no need for lots of checks/coding.
What do you all think about this?
If someone need to runoff and use water as cover or to logout.

Or you can do number of things:
1: no one can attack in water people/animals.
2: health regenerates slow in water.
3: animal stops chasing when you enter water, and/or ignore in the water, animals can still enter water if they need to cross it.
4: animal regenerates health faster if not in combat or on the run.

[tomduril]

Yesterday a dog attacked me in the water and i did loose health (i am pretty sure about that)
... however it was very easy to kill the dog - after i killed it i could not "hunt" the animal body (meaning strip it of guts, bones, hide and so on) - yes i believe i had a knife in the right hand - the hunting menue just would not show up when i selected the corpse (i saw the highlight selection around the body though).

I am not sure if setting water as a "safe place" would be appreciated by some of the pvp focused players - would probably be much to easy to flee from a fight that way.

BTW: Hiding is worth nothing ... i thought that a decent crafter should be pretty good at hiding - however players as well as animals have no problem "finding" me when i am hidden (Hidding at 100) - I would find "hiding" - as a skill based action - a better "safeheaven" then just jumping into water ...

[MrDDT]

I think better would just be allow animals to attack in water. Its a lot easier, and why shouldnt people be allowed to attack things in the water?
Water shouldnt be safe zones.

[Creator]

If you disable fighting in water.. people will just run into a creek when close to death. and there is tons of water nearly every where. This would completely break a partial broken combat system.

I don't like the idea. I say fix animals for them to attack in water.

[unclean666]

If animals attacking in water is not turned on/fixed then you might as well just take them out of the game altogether.

[Willowhawk]

Animals can attack in water if the water is a man made pond and a dirt bottom. So it seems to have something to do with the rocks in water.

I say fix the issue so animals work correctly in water. IMO Safety in the wild should be a calculated risk. :cool:

[znaiika]

Just to sure do you want Xsyon to simulate real life if possible? or you just want to fit your wants?
I've never seen dear being able to fight in water nor little animals to be able to kill children, not to mention grownups.
There are water animals and land animals, land animals can't fight in water or most of them.
First separate those and give statuses and abilities to each animal that fit its role.

[MrDDT]

Just to sure do you want Xsyon to simulate real life if possible? or you just want to fit your wants?
I've never seen dear being able to fight in water nor little animals to be able to kill children, not to mention grownups.
There are water animals and land animals, land animals can't fight in water or most of them.
First separate those and give statuses and abilities to each animal that fit its role.

What does a deer attacking someone have to do with animals and players attacking in water?

First deer have attacked people before. Second is, this isnt real life. Children do get bit by small animals also. Remember this isnt 100% like real life.

If you think most land animals cant fight in water, I would think you have no idea what you are talking about.

IMO the best and simple thing to do is either fix it, or call it a tactic to kill animals in water that cant fight back. Right now I still dont know if we are allowed to exploit animals in water or not. Some guides say yes, some say no, some players say yes, some players say no.

[Kegan]

It does need fixed for sure. I have seen people kill huge shadow bears that if on land would have never even stood a chance. What is causing them from not attacking anyway? Is it the swimming animation conflicting with the attacking one?

[znaiika]

Remember this isnt 100% like real life.


Hmmm. That should take care of all the problems we have in game.:rolleyes:
The idea to make game free of griefs and exploits.
So everyone can enjoy.

Tell me, are you going to cry as well when they release bow and arrows, for people making traps and then kill animals, and not giving animals a chance to fight back?

[MrDDT]

Hmmm. That should take care of all the problems we have in game.:rolleyes:
The idea to make game free of griefs and exploits.
So everyone can enjoy.

Tell me, are you going to cry as well when they release bow and arrows, for people making traps and then kill animals, and not giving animals a chance to fight back?


I would expect that animals will be stronger than dying to 1 arrow. Plus there are resources and risk involved.

If bows kill Full grown Shadow Bears (hardest animals in game) in 1 hit. Yes I will whine about it needing to be balanced. Dunno about you, but it doesnt make for a fun game for me to kill animals in 1 hit.

Ive already said before they need to beef up animals to kill players. They did, and now they dont attack in water. Something Xsyon himself said he was going to fix. If everyone is finding it fun to attack an animal in water that cant attack back. Then maybe I am playing the wrong game.

[znaiika]

I would expect that animals will be stronger than dying to 1 arrow. Plus there are resources and risk involved.

If bows kill Full grown Shadow Bears (hardest animals in game) in 1 hit. Yes I will whine about it needing to be balanced. Dunno about you, but it doesnt make for a fun game for me to kill animals in 1 hit.

Ive already said before they need to beef up animals to kill players. They did, and now they dont attack in water. Something Xsyon himself said he was going to fix. If everyone is finding it fun to attack an animal in water that cant attack back. Then maybe I am playing the wrong game.

I have never said one shoot one kill, I said trap and then kill.
I agree, full grown bear to be one-shoot one-kill is unacceptable, should not be the case with small bear.
We don't have bow and arrows in the game yet so people use water as a tactical advantage.
We don't have bear traps either, so we could trap a bear and than kill it with bow and arrows or spears.
When that happens, when we have bow and arrows with spears, and traps that we can set, then yes we can change tactics.

[Willowhawk]

I've never seen dear being able to fight in water nor little animals to be able to kill children, not to mention grownups.
There are water animals and land animals, land animals can't fight in water or most of them.
First separate those and give statuses and abilities to each animal that fit its role.

The animal aggression, AI, size etc still need some tweeting and they have been doing that over time. Small animals in time I'm sure will not be as tough, and non aggressive animals will be less aggressive etc. They just fixed the pack animals a bit recently. This has been an ongoing process. And yes animal can fight in water. In real life all animals can swim, it's nature. And Bears certainly can fight in water, they spend a good part of their lives fishing. I saw a documentary where they showed a huge Tiger walk right into the water to attack a very huge crocodile. And cats are not suppose to like water LOL. It was an epic fight, but no winners. The cat finally stopped gave a look for primordial hate to the croc then just turned and walked back into the woods.

Now you just asked....


Just to sure do you want Xsyon to simulate real life if possible? or you just want to fit your wants?

Clearly it is your wants that are in question, this was never a question for anyone else until now. Please don't try and make us the bad guys again because it's not what you want.

[soulless]

why do people respond to znaiika posts? they are an obvious troll.

[MrDDT]

I have never said one shoot one kill, I said trap and then kill.
I agree, full grown bear to be one-shoot one-kill is unacceptable, should not be the case with small bear.
We don't have bow and arrows in the game yet so people use water as a tactical advantage.
We don't have bear traps either, so we could trap a bear and than kill it with bow and arrows or spears.
When that happens, when we have bow and arrows with spears, and traps that we can set, then yes we can change tactics.

I will have a problem if there is no balance in setting a trap and shooting bows and killing the hardest animals in the game. I think that answers your question.

Do you think you should be able to set a trap and kill a shadow bear with a bow and arrow without it attacking you?

[Hodo]

Wow Znaiika you are a firestarter.

With that said, this is what should happen and most likely will happen.

Some animals should be able to attack in water, others should not.

Honestly there is no reason for a Bear, Beaver, or any other animal that knows how to swim not to attack in water.

But a Tricock, or any of the non-swimming animals should not attack in water and should avoid going into it. I can tell you now the easiest way to corner a flightless bird in real life is to get it on the edge of a riverbank, it will not go into the water deeper than it can wade.


Last part.

If you are fighting in water, they should reduce the amount of damage you can do. Have you ever tried to swing full force while swimming, good luck. Power is generated by your hips and your legs not by your arms.


why do people respond to znaiika posts? they are an obvious troll.

*DING DING DING*!!!

We have a winnah!

[znaiika]

Please don't try and make us the bad guys again because it's not what you want.

I don't I think about you like that, i think you're cool guys anyhow you respond to me, and not insulting me in personally.
If we can come up with reasonable agreements when discussing, I have no problem with you guys.



Do you think you should be able to set a trap and kill a shadow bear with a bow and arrow without it attacking you?

Only if a trap is big enough and is not possible for one person to carry, but should be possible to make it.

[Creator]

Just to sure do you want Xsyon to simulate real life if possible? or you just want to fit your wants?
I've never seen dear being able to fight in water nor little animals to be able to kill children, not to mention grownups.
There are water animals and land animals, land animals can't fight in water or most of them.
First separate those and give statuses and abilities to each animal that fit its role.

Bird dogs can fetch game in water. Animals may be swimming but still have their teeth. But if you don't agree with me we can always throw you in the water with a starved bear or wolf and see if your theory is correct. ^^

some proof btw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ61qi-Sptg shadow bear would... eat you!

[Willowhawk]

Wow Znaiika you are a firestarter.

With that said, this is what should happen and most likely will happen.

Some animals should be able to attack in water, others should not.

Honestly there is no reason for a Bear, Beaver, or any other animal that knows how to swim not to attack in water.

But a Tricock, or any of the non-swimming animals should not attack in water and should avoid going into it. I can tell you now the easiest way to corner a flightless bird in real life is to get it on the edge of a riverbank, it will not go into the water deeper than it can wade.


Last part.

If you are fighting in water, they should reduce the amount of damage you can do. Have you ever tried to swing full force while swimming, good luck. Power is generated by your hips and your legs not by your arms.



*DING DING DING*!!!

We have a winnah!

I like all of these ideas, and I believe in time they will come about. As we all know the combat and AI are still in the growth and development stages.

On a side note in regards to having a safe area in the wild? I don't want any safe area. I want to be scared. I'M NOT SCARED IN THIS GAME. At best the animals can be an inconvenience. I want to have to use my smarts and my prowess to survive. We should have to use stealth and cunning when out hunting. I would like to see "Hide" actually work. We should be hiding in the trees and water when the threat is too great. And if I am not paying attention and a big ugly scary things jump outs to attack me, that is my fault and I get to run away like a little girl :p

[Creator]

The game currently lacks a real challenge, and I think users become bored :(. Get into trouble, run to water. Get into pvp hide in totem area till they leave. I know we shouldn't bring up that argument just making a point. that Moon has a real point I have no sense of fear, even as a small 4 foot hermit, running around in my grass trousers with a fishing rod and a china hat. But in a real survival scenario I should be deathly afraid!!

I would love to see a higher density population of animals, and fix to water issue.

[MrDDT]

I don't I think about you like that, i think you're cool guys anyhow you respond to me, and not insulting me in personally.
If we can come up with reasonable agreements when discussing, I have no problem with you guys.

Im not sure if your English is just bad, or didnt really read what he said, but he didnt make a personal attack. He was stating his opinion that you seem to only care about what YOU want, and not what is good for the game or what the devs want.

I also happen to agree with him.



Only if a trap is big enough and is not possible for one person to carry, but should be possible to make it.

If you can build a trap that traps a shadow-bear, I would say you need to have high skill, use a large amount of resources, and it should be heavy. Even then I do not agree with the bear being 100% trapped an not able to attack. Maybe slowed up, or hurt. But not so you just shoot an arrow or 2 to kill it because it is trapped.

[znaiika]

1: I also happen to agree with him.
2: If you can build a trap that traps a shadow-bear, I would say you need to have high skill, use a large amount of resources, and it should be heavy. Even then I do not agree with the bear being 100% trapped an not able to attack. Maybe slowed up, or hurt. But not so you just shoot an arrow or 2 to kill it because it is trapped.

1: I know you would, it's always same small community, the rest are not welcome even if they have better point then you.
And even if my English is not perfect, that doesn't mean I can't have a rights to speak.
You people really should learn what share means, and maybe we could have normal conversations, but at this point you're only pushing me to defend myself from you.
You remind me of little kids who fight over candy.
And your best tactic against people is to force guides to close threads so you could be on top, and have your own ideas only.
2: maybe I want to catch one for display?

[MrDDT]

1: I know you would, it's always same small community, the rest are not welcome even if they have better point then you.
And even if my English is not perfect, that doesn't mean I can't have a rights to speak.
You people really should learn what share means, and maybe we could have normal conversations, but at this point you're only pushing me to defend myself from you.
You remind me of little kids who fight over candy.
And your best tactic against people is to force guides to close threads so you could be on top, and have your own ideas only.
2: maybe I want to catch one for display?


Just FYI, your whole #1 is all trolling/personal attacking. Im not attacking your person. Im saying you have a bad idea that doesnt make sense. It could be cause you didnt read the thread, or maybe you just dont really think it over. I dont know. Either way some of the stuff you are saying doesnt make sense.

#2) Animal taming is coming into the game. I'm sure it will be something you can do to trap/tame/breed animals.

[znaiika]

#2) Animal taming is coming into the game. I'm sure it will be something you can do to trap/tame/breed animals.

Maybe I did misunderstood you maybe I didn't, that's not the point. I know he didn't made an attack on me, was not my point to blame him in that response.

Until Animal taming, animals are tweaked for health and damage and we have bows and arrows, spears, etc.... we should still have water as tactical advantage.

[Willowhawk]

1: I know you would, it's always same small community, the rest are not welcome even if they have better point then you.

Znaiika, the problem here is not that yours or anyone's opinions are not welcome, the problem is when you make suggestion and you ask for opinions, and people don't agree with your opinion, you contest their views and you argue endlessly. You asked what everyone thought in your original post and everyone responded. I'm not sure you really want others opinions, I think you just want everyone to agree with you. :(

[Creator]

1: I know you would, it's always same small community, the rest are not welcome even if they have better point then you.
And even if my English is not perfect, that doesn't mean I can't have a rights to speak.
You people really should learn what share means, and maybe we could have normal conversations, but at this point you're only pushing me to defend myself from you.
You remind me of little kids who fight over candy.
And your best tactic against people is to force guides to close threads so you could be on top, and have your own ideas only.
2: maybe I want to catch one for display?

Re - #1: Not always do people from the same community always agree with the same people. If you are going to say something at least provide a basis for your argument.
This is just the same as you saying animals can't attack people in water if a land animal - FALSE!!! I even showed footage of a polar bear, attacking someone. That is fact!

- Yes you have the right to speak, but it does not mean we have to agree with what you say.
- Not even sure what you are getting at with sharing... O.o?
- I don't see anyone forcing guides to close the thread. I see one person with an idea the majority doesn't agree with becoming upset, and comparing everyone else to children.

Re #3: Wait for taming to display an animal.
Re #4: Back on track, water as a safe zone simply further dilutes challenge of game, as there is almost always water within a jump or two.

[znaiika]

- Yes you have the right to speak, but it does not mean we have to agree with what you say.


I don't blame people for disagreeing with me, that is what discussions are for, what I don't like in people is instead of explaining what is the problem might be? they start to insult me.
I do pay attention to what you're all saying, and trying to explain what the problem might be i some cases.
I do agree, I am tooo persistent, that one I do have and guilty of that.

Now on topic: as I said it, implement means to use different tactics "bows and arrows, spears, etc..." and then you can make animals to attack in water.

[Willowhawk]

I do agree, I am tooo persistent, that one I do have and guilty of that.
That's what I like to see, a little humility is very honorable :D

Since for now the waters are safe, and who knows when that will change or when we will get more things like range weapons and such, I would say enjoy the current safeguards and wait to see what happens. Maybe they will come about in a timely manner and all will be well :o

[Creator]

Now on topic: as I said it, implement means to use different tactics "bows and arrows, spears, etc..." and then you can make animals to attack in water.

How does having bows, arrows, spears, etc make it ok for animals to function normally, but not before hand?

[Book]

I think being safe in water is a step backwards developmentally, but sometimes, for reasons beyond the understanding of people not programming the game (obviously myself included), it is necessary to take a step back to make two steps forward.

We used to be safe from PvP attacks in water. That was changed, and now animals apparently don't attack in water, that will change. There was a time animals were stuck on granite, I had a huge (and I mean huge) herd of rabid angry squirrels stuck on a 2 meter by 2 meter patch of granite at one point. That was fixed, just as the water thing going on now will be.

DDT, no offense meant (this time :) ) but when you tell people they don't understand what they're talking about, or clearly aren't reading the posts, or their english must suck... it's abrasive and does objectively appear as a personal attack. It may not be meant that way, I'm just saying that's the way you come across at times. Just fyi.

To the people who like to just say Z is a troll, and at times have nothing more to add to the conversation, please stop. Such action is actually trolling in itself and isn't going to lead anywhere good, any time. The guides see fit to let you continue, and they must have their reasons, but no conscientious adult appreciates the behavior. As I said, please stop.

Back to topic, one thing I really wanted to see for a long time is the ability to get away from animals. I don't know if that's the case right now, but it used to be that animals would never stop chasing clear across many zones.
I don't say that because I don't want to die, I can kill them. The point is that sometimes it's best to leave the animal alive to grow into a greater challenge or spawn more of its kind.

Far as traps, I don't think it would be too difficult to have qualities and style of traps effective in accordance with the strength and ferocity of the animal in question. Even a mammoth can be trapped, but it takes a lot of work to build the trap, and cunning to lead the animal into it. It's a group effort that yields great reward at great risk.

[MrDDT]

Maybe I did misunderstood you maybe I didn't, that's not the point. I know he didn't made an attack on me, was not my point to blame him in that response.

Until Animal taming, animals are tweaked for health and damage and we have bows and arrows, spears, etc.... we should still have water as tactical advantage.

If you know he didnt make a personal attack then why did you say he did? Then call others names like "troll".

Water is a tactical advantage. Not sure if you know this, but you can move a lot faster in water than you can on land. Also animals take longer to get across rivers than they do running straight on land.

There is a difference between "advantage" and "exploiting" if an animal is bugged out so they cant attack, they cant get away, and they dont heal. Its text book exploiting.

Attacking an animal while its on another player in the back is an advantage. Bugging it out so there is no risk, and you can keep killing it. Or exploiting it in a bit where it cant hurt you and you hit it for a few hours and then leave it in a pit while it heals up. Is an exploit, in any other game Ive ever played.




I don't blame people for disagreeing with me, that is what discussions are for, what I don't like in people is instead of explaining what is the problem might be? they start to insult me.
I do pay attention to what you're all saying, and trying to explain what the problem might be i some cases.
I do agree, I am tooo persistent, that one I do have and guilty of that.

Now on topic: as I said it, implement means to use different tactics "bows and arrows, spears, etc..." and then you can make animals to attack in water.

Why would you need to put in bows and arrows/spears before you get animals to work correctly? If you can handle an animal sounds like you shouldnt be fighting it alone. If you cant handle it with more people, sounds like you need to not fight that animal. Right now animals are working pretty well outside this "tactic" its even fun. However, I dont see the fun or risk involved with killing something that cant fight you back.



I think being safe in water is a step backwards developmentally, but sometimes, for reasons beyond the understanding of people not programming the game (obviously myself included), it is necessary to take a step back to make two steps forward.

We used to be safe from PvP attacks in water. That was changed, and now animals apparently don't attack in water, that will change. There was a time animals were stuck on granite, I had a huge (and I mean huge) herd of rabid angry squirrels stuck on a 2 meter by 2 meter patch of granite at one point. That was fixed, just as the water thing going on now will be.

DDT, no offense meant (this time :) ) but when you tell people they don't understand what they're talking about, or clearly aren't reading the posts, or their english must suck... it's abrasive and does objectively appear as a personal attack. It may not be meant that way, I'm just saying that's the way you come across at times. Just fyi.

To the people who like to just say Z is a troll, and at times have nothing more to add to the conversation, please stop. Such action is actually trolling in itself and isn't going to lead anywhere good, any time. The guides see fit to let you continue, and they must have their reasons, but no conscientious adult appreciates the behavior. As I said, please stop.

Back to topic, one thing I really wanted to see for a long time is the ability to get away from animals. I don't know if that's the case right now, but it used to be that animals would never stop chasing clear across many zones.
I don't say that because I don't want to die, I can kill them. The point is that sometimes it's best to leave the animal alive to grow into a greater challenge or spawn more of its kind.

Far as traps, I don't think it would be too difficult to have qualities and style of traps effective in accordance with the strength and ferocity of the animal in question. Even a mammoth can be trapped, but it takes a lot of work to build the trap, and cunning to lead the animal into it. It's a group effort that yields great reward at great risk.


I agree being safe in water is a step backwards. It was even said to be not working AI because of it by Xsyon himself. However, I would like to know if this is ok for players to do or not. I get mixed sayings. Some guides say ok, some say no, some players say its ok, some say its not. Official stance on it would be nice. Whether or not I think its an exploit or not isnt really a big deal as much as what the devs think. I would hate to be doing it and guide X says I'm not going to be banned, because player Y reports me for exploiting.

I never said anyone's English sucks, you can clearly see English isnt his first language or he isnt good at it. He even admits it. I was simply saying he should take more time to read and understand the posts before making personal and abrasive attacks at people.
According to you, what you just posted is "abrasive" then for you posting your option. Which is truly not on topic and a personal attack. Which isnt bad to me because this thread has been off topic for a long time now talking about trolling and personal attacks, so its expected others will keep going on and on about it.

Again here is you talking bad about people in this post instead of focusing on the topic.

I agree with the traps, however, its not easy to trap a mammoth. Plus who knows if its possible to trap a shadowbear for all we know they can be stronger than materials used to trap it. I think balance is the key here. Risk, costs, and time need to be brought into the thought process. Either case, we dont have traps in game, and having something with no risk be killed that is the hardest animal/mutant in the game is pretty imbalanced wouldnt you agree?

[Jadzia]

Im not sure if your English is just bad, or didnt really read what he said, but he didnt make a personal attack. He was stating his opinion that you seem to only care about what YOU want, and not what is good for the game or what the devs want.

Seriously, it's funny that you are accusing him with not reading the posts properly or not understanding it...while it's you who do that.

znaiika said :
I don't I think about you like that, i think you're cool guys anyhow you respond to me, and not insulting me in personally.

He said he knew they were cool, they responded to him and NOT insulting him. Still you are acting like he said the opposite. This is just ridiculous. I didn't want to comment on this but you keep going on this issue so I had to.

[Book]

Again here is you talking bad about people in this post instead of focusing on the topic.

Not really, asking people to stop insulting Z ad nauseum just for the sake of insulting someone isn't talking bad about them, it's sincerely asking them to stop. Had I wanted to talk bad about them, I would have been far more offensive and direct in doing so. I chose not to do that, but rather politely asked them to stop. It's not that hard.

Explaining why the things you say may sometimes appear abrasive is simply an observation that may or, evidently, may not prove useful. Either way. However, I am sorry you interpreted what I was saying as you did. I am not insulting your english for the mishap, nor am I suggesting you didn't read the post or have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.


I agree with the traps, however, its not easy to trap a mammoth. Plus who knows if its possible to trap a shadowbear for all we know they can be stronger than materials used to trap it. I think balance is the key here. Risk, costs, and time need to be brought into the thought process. Either case, we dont have traps in game, and having something with no risk be killed that is the hardest animal/mutant in the game is pretty imbalanced wouldnt you agree?

My agreement is rather implicit since this is pretty much what I said. What I did not say, anywhere, was that trapping a mammoth would be easy. I have no idea how you came to that understanding, but it is your understanding, and I can respect that as well as respectfully point out your misunderstanding.

Not rocket science.

As far as getting a definitive answer, you've asked the question in the designated post. Jordi has communicated the fact that he will not be able to address those questions in the nearest future. Seems to me all is well and you will get what you wish (a definitive answer) in due time. Problem?

[MrDDT]

My agreement is rather implicit since this is pretty much what I said. What I did not say, anywhere, was that trapping a mammoth would be easy. I have no idea how you came to that understanding, but it is your understanding, and I can respect that as well as respectfully point out your misunderstanding.

Not rocket science.

As far as getting a definitive answer, you've asked the question in the designated post. Jordi has communicated the fact that he will not be able to address those questions in the nearest future. Seems to me all is well and you will get what you wish (a definitive answer) in due time. Problem?


I didnt mean to imply that you meant it was easy to trap a mammoth I was just giving my opinion on it.

I dont have a problem with Xsyon answering them. I didn't make this topic. Just giving my opinions and thoughts.

I do remember Xsyon saying he was trying to fix it so they wouldnt even go in the water.

I had another thought on the topic about how, what how do people feel about trapping animals inside buildings and stuff like that?

[Omniwar]

You guys/gals sure like to debate opinions.

For me this is quite simple. This has been known forever by Xsyon and if they wanted to change it before now they would have, but they havent. Neither have they made it clear this is an exploit.

Maybe they will change this at some point, but until then I will consider it accepted behaviour for me when I am working on my homestead and an animal I cant kill on land comes attacking me to jump in the water and beat on it until it runs away. Most of the time I will be at low energy so I dont even bother trying to follow, and I just get right back to working on my homestead.

And since I have said here I do this, Xsyon can give me a warning or ban me for doing it, if they deem this bannable offence.


I just find it bit amusing that certain individuals that have no problem with well most animals, and have already built protective walls around their tribe are finding it so painful that newer players resort to this tactic, tactic which I do find bit lame truth be told. I dont activly go out hunting, I just find it bit pointless to just stand there and die like a moron when I have a way to beat that animal off and go back to trying to build my homestead.

I also find it amusing that a certain individual that says this is an exploit finds it perfectly fine to use another "bug/exploit" to open up gates of tribes and go inside to harass weaker players for hours on end. You cant pick and choose you nitwit, now stop fouling up the forums with your constant trying to beat any and all discussion please.

[znaiika]

There is a difference between "advantage" and "exploiting" if an animal is bugged out so they cant attack, they cant get away, and they dont heal. Its text book exploiting.


If animal stop chasing when you enter water you automatically eliminate an exploit of animal not attacking in a water.
I always escape or trying to escape animals for many reasons, I can kill some animals on land but I just don't want to kill them.

MrDDT, sounds like you want reward for everything.
Sometimes the reward is what you get from what you kill. I know killing a person you can loot his items, and then, you have to either give him back or destroy, it's often useless to you.
Tell me, what is the difference between bear bones and coyote bones? Is it reasonable to kill a bear for same amount and same type of bones which you can get from smaller animals? they do need to fix that as well.
Or is it reasonable for weapon line to have recipe that require dear antlers to craft a knife? knowing that it is impossible to get them for a new players, starting weapons should correspond with the skills, and all other crafting items and tools.
There are so many problems with crafting, leading to animal killing and working tools, and all are chained-up, connected. Everything needs to be fixed at the same time, before one thing needed to be fixed.

[Willowhawk]

I also find it amusing that a certain individual that says this is an exploit finds it perfectly fine to use another "bug/exploit" to open up gates of tribes and go inside to harass weaker players for hours on end. You cant pick and choose you nitwit, now stop fouling up the forums with your constant trying to beat any and all discussion please.

Do as I say and not as I do? LOL

And speaking of exploiting gates, since the Architecture contest we find our gates open all the time yet none of our current players are opening the gates. We suspected a guide of doing this, now I am going to have to contact the devs and find out why our gates are being opened and by whom. And I will want a name.

[MrDDT]

You guys/gals sure like to debate opinions.

For me this is quite simple. This has been known forever by Xsyon and if they wanted to change it before now they would have, but they havent. Neither have they made it clear this is an exploit.

Maybe they will change this at some point, but until then I will consider it accepted behaviour for me when I am working on my homestead and an animal I cant kill on land comes attacking me to jump in the water and beat on it until it runs away. Most of the time I will be at low energy so I dont even bother trying to follow, and I just get right back to working on my homestead.

And since I have said here I do this, Xsyon can give me a warning or ban me for doing it, if they deem this bannable offence.


I just find it bit amusing that certain individuals that have no problem with well most animals, and have already built protective walls around their tribe are finding it so painful that newer players resort to this tactic, tactic which I do find bit lame truth be told. I dont activly go out hunting, I just find it bit pointless to just stand there and die like a moron when I have a way to beat that animal off and go back to trying to build my homestead.

I also find it amusing that a certain individual that says this is an exploit finds it perfectly fine to use another "bug/exploit" to open up gates of tribes and go inside to harass weaker players for hours on end. You cant pick and choose you nitwit, now stop fouling up the forums with your constant trying to beat any and all discussion please.


I couldn't have been known forever by Xsyon because it wasn't like this always. It used to be that animals attacked in water. Then new AI went out and it was bugged. Xsyon knows about it and is working on a fix, patched it and they still got messed up. So he has to work on the AI more.

I agree they should put out a warning to let people know its exploiting if it is one. If its not I would like to know so I dont get in trouble if we were to do it.

I'm not sure how opening gates is an exploit. Are gates not allowed to be opened? What are they for if they are not allowed to be opened and closed?

Added after 9 minutes:


If animal stop chasing when you enter water you automatically eliminate an exploit of animal not attacking in a water.
I always escape or trying to escape animals for many reasons, I can kill some animals on land but I just don't want to kill them.

MrDDT, sounds like you want reward for everything.
Sometimes the reward is what you get from what you kill. I know killing a person you can loot his items, and then, you have to either give him back or destroy, it's often useless to you.
Tell me, what is the difference between bear bones and coyote bones? Is it reasonable to kill a bear for same amount and same type of bones which you can get from smaller animals? they do need to fix that as well.
Or is it reasonable for weapon line to have recipe that require dear antlers to craft a knife? knowing that it is impossible to get them for a new players, starting weapons should correspond with the skills, and all other crafting items and tools.
There are so many problems with crafting, leading to animal killing and working tools, and all are chained-up, connected. Everything needs to be fixed at the same time, before one thing needed to be fixed.

I agree, if they did make it so animals didnt go in the water and couldnt be killed without risk, that would fix the problem.

About rewards for everything, well I think anything you do in game you should be rewarded for the effort if its reasonable. I mean jumping off a cliff shouldn't be rewarded, but doing activities and things should.

I dont agree that just because you want to craft something using animal parts, means it should be easy or able to exploit the animals with out risk to get the mats.

You cant fix everything at the same time, its impossible.

[Willowhawk]

I'm not sure how opening gates is an exploit. Are gates not allowed to be opened? What are they for if they are not allowed to be opened and closed?

So you are saying you can open other tribes gates? Since the gates are there to keep people and animals out, I would say you must be using an exploit since they are suppose to be locked to anyone outside of a tribe.

[MrDDT]

Pretty sure that if if you are outside the tribe and you right click on the door. You can use it. I don't think tribe membership is required. I know a lot of people built the gates this way so that it keeps out animals but players are free to come and go. I know Drever has his doors set up like that.

Not really sure how its an exploit to right click on a door and use it.

[Willowhawk]

Pretty sure that if if you are outside the tribe and you right click on the door. You can use it. I don't think tribe membership is required. I know a lot of people built the gates this way so that it keeps out animals but players are free to come and go. I know Drever has his doors set up like that.

Oh you seem quite sure how it works. And yes it is definitely a bug and an exploit. You know this is not how the gates are intended to work. So do us all a favor, and stop trying to call out people for cheating and exploits, it's only an exploit or cheating to you when other people are doing something YOU don't like.

[MrDDT]

Being polite? Or didnt know they could open it?

Why do people ask a lot of things. Ive seen someone ask "How do I type in global" while typing in global. =P

[Hodo]

Seriously, it's funny that you are accusing him with not reading the posts properly or not understanding it...while it's you who do that.
o.

I have said far worse and I am trolling his sorry butt. I cant stand stupid. I understand that English isn't his first language but that doesn't excuse the argumentative narrow minded stand that Znaiika has prostrated himself on. I will continue to call a fool a fool.

[Jadzia]

I have said far worse and I am trolling his sorry butt. I cant stand stupid. I understand that English isn't his first language but that doesn't excuse the argumentative narrow minded stand that Znaiika has prostrated himself on. I will continue to call a fool a fool.

My comment was a reply to DDT's one. He has a very bad habit of not reading posts properly, only reading the buzz words and leaving out those uninteresting, tiny words like 'no' or 'not'. He owes an apology to znaiika imo for jumping on him for something znaiika didn't do. That would be an honest thing of DDT...admitting he was wrong. Not that I think he will do that.

[MrDDT]

My comment was a reply to DDT's one. He has a very bad habit of not reading posts properly, only reading the buzz words and leaving out those uninteresting, tiny words like 'no' or 'not'. He owes an apology to znaiika imo for jumping on him for something znaiika didn't do. That would be an honest thing of DDT...admitting he was wrong. Not that I think he will do that.


By all means Im not perfect, Ive made mistakes. Ive also said many times on the forums when I have, normally the words start with "My bad" if you want to do a search I know you are good at searches on these forums.

However, in this case here I think my point is still valid. Znaiika does have times where he doesnt understand from either not reading or due to his first language isnt English or some other reason. Which is why I made the comment, which you believe is an attack.

In any case, this thread was started with Znaiika talking about how he believes they should change it so nothing can attack anything in the water, and I couldnt disagree more with that. When asked why, he puts out bad data on how animals in real life cant attack in water.

This whole thread is clearly just messed up and has turned in to a lot of personal attacks, innuendos, etc. Many of Znaiikas threads do, many of them by him posting things he doesnt know what he is talking about or misunderstanding.

I find it sad that you are not even here to comment on the topic both times you are posting in this thread you have yet to comment on the true topic. You are instead attacking players. I'm pretty sure that is called "trolling" but hey mods are likely to just let it go.



Do people really think that this idea of not able to attack anything in water is really a choice? What say you Jadzia?

[NorCalGooey]

Its not a choice because it still provides an area for the player to regen his HP and can't be attacked.

If I remember right, animals USED to be able to attack in water, now they cannot.

I haven't read any of this thread, just fix animals please :) Don't ruin PvP and PvE by eliminating player attacking in water.

[Jadzia]

I find it sad that you are not even here to comment on the topic both times you are posting in this thread you have yet to comment on the true topic. You are instead attacking players. I'm pretty sure that is called "trolling" but hey mods are likely to just let it go.

Do people really think that this idea of not able to attack anything in water is really a choice? What say you Jadzia?
I definitely don't attack players. I said you were wrong, you did a mistake and you jumped on someone else like he had done it. If pointing out your mistakes is an attack then be it.

Why I don't comment on the topic itself ? Because its absolutely uninteresting and useless imo. Another broken feature, they will fix it when they get the time. Till then it is there, we don't even know if it is intentional so I'm sure everyone (including you) will use it for their advantage. There is nothing wrong with that, if the devs think we shouldn't they will post about it on the forum.

[MrDDT]

I definitely don't attack players. I said you were wrong, you did a mistake and you jumped on someone else like he had done it. If pointing out your mistakes is an attack then be it.

Why I don't comment on the topic itself ? Because its absolutely uninteresting and useless imo. Another broken feature, they will fix it when they get the time. Till then it is there, we don't even know if it is intentional so I'm sure everyone (including you) will use it for their advantage. There is nothing wrong with that, if the devs think we shouldn't they will post about it on the forum.

I didnt make a mistake, and if you think I jumped on him so be it, I did state my thoughts on it. I dont think pointing out mistakes is an attack just FYI, it seems as others think it is.

I dont use this tactic to kill animals, I dont even need to mostly. I have ran away and used the water to get away, but you wont find me killing animals in the water when they cant attack us back.

When have the devs posted about things we shouldnt do on the forums without someone posting or asking a question about it? Really? Heck clearcutting is considered "griefing" and they havnt talked about that, many other issues they never posted about until asked.

Everyday just blown away by how people can make lies over and over. Sometimes I wonder if they know they are lying or if they just dont know any better, or dont care to find out.

Jadzia, way to troll. Posting in threads with nothing more than trying to bash people without even commenting on the topic. We need some mods around here that will stop some of this crap. Cant even have a discussion without people bashing other people.

Added after 6 minutes:


Oh you seem quite sure how it works. And yes it is definitely a bug and an exploit. You know this is not how the gates are intended to work. So do us all a favor, and stop trying to call out people for cheating and exploits, it's only an exploit or cheating to you when other people are doing something YOU don't like.

Nice edit.

I dont know how they are intended to work or not. I do know that there are players out there that have planned their buildings and tribal layout off how gates work. If they are on tribe lands placed correctly other players cant open them if they are not in the tribe.

If they are placed at the edge, then anyone can open them. I see nothing wrong with the system. As you have a choice on if you want it 1 way or the other.

I do believe Xsyon is putting permissions on doors, which is much needed, which will solve this issue and many others. Like able to lock up a room inside your own tribal area from other members. Or make officer rooms where only officers can get into etc.

[znaiika]

1: I agree, if they did make it so animals didnt go in the water and couldnt be killed without risk, that would fix the problem.

2: I dont agree that just because you want to craft something using animal parts, means it should be easy or able to exploit the animals with out risk to get the mats.

3: You cant fix everything at the same time, its impossible.

1: For that one I thank you, "for understanding".
If a new player want to run off to safety he should be able to do that, new players don't start with a fence around his totem area, and is defenseless and unskilled.

2: That is the thing, something that requires bones should be later when person is skilled with combat, then he could actually craft using bones.
I do not agree on crafting a combat knife using deer antlers at start, when new player is powerless to get antlers.
That knife should be removed and different type of knife should take it's place.

3: I agree, what they could do, is, while fixing! keep Xsyon playable for all ages.

[MrDDT]

1: For that one I thank you, "for understanding".
If a new player want to run off to safety he should be able to do that, new players don't start with a fence around his totem area, and is defenseless and unskilled.

2: That is the thing, something that requires bones should be later when person is skilled with combat, then he could actually craft using bones.
I do not agree on crafting a combat knife using deer antlers at start, when new player is powerless to get antlers.
That knife should be removed and different type of knife should take it's place.

3: I agree, what they could do, is, while fixing! keep Xsyon playable for all ages.


1) If you want saftey stay in the safe areas. Like near The Lake is a good idea. I also can see running to the water for safety but what does that have to do with killing the animals in the water with no risk?

2) You dont start with just 1 weapon type to make. I guess you think you should have everything handed to you at the start to make anything you want? New players CAN get antlers, there is trade, teamwork, tribes etc. I dont see why you dont understand this. Other games you start with recipes that you have to buy/trade for items or go out in places to get them.

3) They are fixing it. Doesnt mean its not an exploit. You are trying to say here that its a good thing to be able to attack animals and not attack them back.

[Book]

2: That is the thing, something that requires bones should be later when person is skilled with combat, then he could actually craft using bones.
I do not agree on crafting a combat knife using deer antlers at start, when new player is powerless to get antlers.
That knife should be removed and different type of knife should take it's place.

I was never really that fond of that knife in general, do you have an axe type that can be easier to make if you want to grind up weaponscrafting?

Admittedly, I skipped weaponcraft entirely when I was playing. Other people did a much greater job than I did so I traded for what I needed.
Which as DDT said, trade my friend, trade! Well ok, he didn't say "my friend" but I took a little artistic license there :p

I know as a new player it may seem like there isn't much of use to trade an old-timer. On the other hand, what you can't necessarily make in quality, you can make and trade in quantity. String, rope, grass plates, wood handles, whatever. Bricks? etc.
And you'll be levelling as you do that :)
The old-timer may not always need everything at its highest quality. Bricks for example, or even other components their own tribemates can use when grinding past a certain point.

Also, if you grind your gathering skills early, you could also offer very high quality (or whatever its called these days) stuff for the old-timers. There's options :).

[Creator]

This feedback thread has transformed into a debate that is so far off original primary point that it is nearly non constructive. :(

[Hodo]

This feedback thread has transformed into a debate that is so far off original primary point that it is nearly non constructive. :(

This is the nature of ALL of Znaiikas threads.

[Book]

This feedback thread has transformed into a debate that is so far off original primary point that it is nearly non constructive. :(

Well that's a bummer man, I had hoped there might be a useful tidbit in what I just posted :(. It certainly has gone way off the intended path though. It would either take a great deal of self-discipline on everyone's part, or some heavy handed moderation to keep threads from meandering I'm guessing.

Hodo, you're not helping :(

[Hodo]

2: That is the thing, something that requires bones should be later when person is skilled with combat, then he could actually craft using bones.
I do not agree on crafting a combat knife using deer antlers at start, when new player is powerless to get antlers.
That knife should be removed and different type of knife should take it's place.

3: I agree, what they could do, is, while fixing! keep Xsyon playable for all ages.


I didnt have knife for some time in game. I had a crafting knife and no combat blade. But I did alright. My only gripe is, if I can make a crafting knife, but I cant use that same knife that can shave rocks into chisels to skin a animal that I just killed? I dont think I should have to use a combat blade for hunting skill use. That would be like skinning a dear with a K-Bar. It can happen, but it would be better to use a skinning knife.

And Xsyon isnt really good for all ages. I cant imagine to many 3-10 year olds getting into this game. Or even 11-16 year olds.

[znaiika]

1) If you want saftey stay in the safe areas. Like near The Lake is a good idea. I also can see running to the water for safety but what does that have to do with killing the animals in the water with no risk?

2) You dont start with just 1 weapon type to make. I guess you think you should have everything handed to you at the start to make anything you want? New players CAN get antlers, there is trade, teamwork, tribes etc. I dont see why you dont understand this. Other games you start with recipes that you have to buy/trade for items or go out in places to get them.

3) They are fixing it. Doesnt mean its not an exploit. You are trying to say here that its a good thing to be able to attack animals and not attack them back.

1: That is why i said, "animals should stop chasing" if a person went in to the water.

2: That knife is the only one type to craft, and you need a knife to do number of things.

3: I am not saying "its not an exploit" either.
Animals should stop chasing people in to the water, and no one will be able to kill it in the water.


I didnt have knife for some time in game. I had a crafting knife and no combat blade. But I did alright. My only gripe is, if I can make a crafting knife, but I cant use that same knife that can shave rocks into chisels to skin a animal that I just killed? I dont think I should have to use a combat blade for hunting skill use. That would be like skinning a dear with a K-Bar. It can happen, but it would be better to use a skinning knife.

And Xsyon isnt really good for all ages. I cant imagine to many 3-10 year olds getting into this game. Or even 11-16 year olds.

This is a true story, I've never understood why I can't use crafting knife for making a fire or skin animals.
I wasn't talking about real age, I meant in game age, if that helps.

[MrDDT]

1: That is why i said, "animals should stop chasing" if a person went in to the water.

2: That knife is the only one type to craft, and you need a knife to do number of things.

3: I am not saying "its not an exploit" either.
Animals should stop chasing people in to the water, and no one will be able to kill it in the water.



This is a true story, I've never understood why I can't use crafting knife for making a fire or skin animals.
I wasn't talking about real age, I meant in game age, if that helps.


What things do you need that knife for? Starting a fire (which isnt useful), killing animals (which you can use any weapon for), skinning (which you can use another knife for).

I would like if they stopped chasing people into the water, I would rather have other options though like animals shouldn't be so darn fast all the time. Or better is if you run from the animal it should take that time to run from YOU! hehe

Pretty sure you said it wasnt exploiting by saying you like that people can kill them in the water and it should be a feature.

[znaiika]

1: What things do you need that knife for? Starting a fire (which isnt useful), killing animals (which you can use any weapon for), skinning (which you can use another knife for).

2: Pretty sure you said it wasnt exploiting by saying you like that people can kill them in the water and it should be a feature.

1: to start a fire need a combat knife, different weapons do different damage to different animals " you should know what I am saying, to skin I don't have any other knifes except crafting knife, and crafting you can't use for skinning not even to start a fire.

2: I can assure you, I have not said that. It is temporary get away.

[MrDDT]

1: to start a fire need a combat knife, different weapons do different damage to different animals " you should know what I am saying, to skin I don't have any other knifes except crafting knife.

2: I can assure you, I have not said that. It is temporary get away.


1) I already listed the other 2 things, about the "different damage to different animals" this isnt the case at all. Again just bad info on your part.

2) Sorry, my bad didnt mean to put words into your mouth. I will have to look to see if it was said or not.

[znaiika]

1) I already listed the other 2 things, about the "different damage to different animals".

I am not following you here. What other two things?

[Omniwar]

Why do people bother debating opinions with a person that obviously has decided to fight to the bitter end to show everyone else that his opinions are the right ones, I just dont get it.

Not only does that man child preach one thing is an exploit and calls players exploiters for doing it, but he strangely enough finds it totally accepted behaviour to abuse a known bug of opening tribal gates and then goes on camping and killing players for hours on end. Hippocrite or just fucking stupid?

From a business point of view I honestly dont understand why he hasnt been removed from the game himself, see, I have been playing for under a month and I already know of 4 players that were being griefed by him and 3 of those were about to cancel their subscription when he was given a warning for grieving and exploiting, I assume there must be countless people that have been camped to oblivion until they quit the game since I know of handful in the short time I played.

Its simple math, loose one sub and keep many, or loose many subs and keep one exploiting greifer, wierd to have lost so many subs because of one person.

But maybe the man child will grow up one day, get a job, move out from hotel mama and realise that its not an accomplishment to be 36yo and having a career in a video game, then maybe he can start playing games without grieving the fuck out of weaker players. But hey, those without a real one need to build up their epeen right?

Like I said before, now stop fouling up the forum with your spam, its just so sad having so many posts and all of them are because you dont accept other peoples opinions so you try to convince them that your opinion is the right one. No wonder youre generally disliked in the game, and only reason people suck up to is because they think they will benefit in some way.

[GuideRaguel]

This thread has turned into a Flamewars.

Closed.

Any further flaming by players within this thread, will receive infractions.