Where is the PVE?

[MrDDT]

I was talking to some of the guides and they said that they didnt have anyone saying they had issues finding PVE.

Now, I'm not sure about others but I would like to PVE a lot more. We have a lot of combat focused players in our tribe and new players looking for it all the time. Yet every time we go hunting, we spend 85% of the time looking for something (anything) to kill and 5% of the time fighting, and 10% of the time skinning.

Not counting the transporting of items back to the tribal area for the crafters, this seems to me like a major problem.

Also, I see no real reason to fight in a group. Most animals are easy to solo (80% of the animals) and the few that are not can easy be done in a duo, or a using the water tactic. So group play isnt encouraged.


I would like to see what other peoples thoughts on this are, and if my tribe is just out to lunch on how much PVE we expect in a game.

[Dzarren]

Is there PVE in this game, sure if you live up in the hills all alone ( i did that)
But if you like to interact with poeple you live closer to the lake.
And if one goes uphill its still hard to fins anything and if you kill something you are so encumbered that it takes like an year to get home so you will use an deathport.
i dont think this is the way it should be, actually i think in an destroyed world there would be so many flesh eating animals they would come downhill in the winter for food.

[aliksteel]

I feel the same as you(MrDDT) do when it comes to thinking we need more PvE. But I like the way the hunting is now, I like the fact that you have to really go hunting. I would like for things to be more of a 50/50 chance of winning the fight or not when it comes to bears. Would like PvE fights to be more of a challenge. I would also like to see deer to herd in larger numbers. But there is only so much you can do with that, I know sometime in the future we are going to have zombies(Can't wait for this after watch the last "Walking Dead"). And I know that will help for a time till most of the camps are dealt with.

But right now, I'm not sure what could be or needs to be added to help. Right now we have hunting, bulding, harvesting, and crafting. I know for me I waiting on Farming, Cooking, and Taming. But I'm not looking for them to be added any time soon, And even if they are. Will I like them or will it just feel like a new grind?

But the more I think about it, The more I feel that a lot of the problem is low game population. It's hard for me to keep grinding if I feel there is no reason for it. Sure there is skill gain, But I don't care what level I'm at if there no great need to make sure I'm on the upper end of my crafts skills. And with a low pop and no need for new high level items. I have a hard time grinding them out.

I hope I'm wrong, But I think we are stuck till a lot more content comes out and our population goes up a lot more. In a game like this(IMO) PvE(ie:crafting, hunting) will work better when there is PvP going on. Till then we are just grinding and hunting to hunt. With no real reason to do anything.

I would love to read some fresh new idea for this, As I have been around Xsyon for a long time now and I just can't think of anything new and fun any more.

[znaiika]

Animals like bear, dear, cougar, fox, mountain lion, mountain goat, etc.... should all stay up in the mountains and in larger packs, it dose feel lonely up in the woods and mountains, larger animals should really be harder to kill, I agree with that.
Encumbered: this is a real problem, I wish it was different like in other games, you can take so much without loosing speed and when your limit is over? then you would move by walking.
I really would like to see bonuses to work.
Speed bonus however should have maximum limit so people don't run like road-runner.
Speed bonus stacking = original maxed agility and running, people with maximum agility and running should have no effect.

I would also PVP with you guys if there is no player loot.
If anyone want my stuff? trade is a good option.

[inhabit]

Agree DDT, the intial few times you go hunting it appears fun, but then you realise its just a chore for no real gain (wandering for ages finally finding stuff, then trying to get it all back to camp), armor from the bones isnt really needed cos there is no PvP/PvE and when there are PvP events noone wants to take part incase they lose the armor lol.
The travelling time and bone weight is the main issue for hunting and getting bones etc back, this with the amount of resting while travelling adds to the issue. I also see comfort, and cooking possible having a negative impact on this experience also depending how its implemented. All in all travelling is a chore period too much resting required.

Other than the proposed zombies im unsure what else they have in mind and how this can be progressed. People need a reason to leave their safe zone and at the moment scavenging is all that provides this and even then you dont have to travel too far to find what you need.

[Azurfale]

Perhaps increase the animal population slightly, increase animal difficulty of larger animals slightly. And as suggested above, some animals should just be blood thirsty and hungry so they search out people even in populated areas. (even if it was the mutant version of the animal)

I still very much enjoy hunting, not seeing an animal around every turn doesn't bother me so much, its walking 9 zones and seeing no animals that bothers me.

[Drevar]

You think bones and hides are heavy now, what about when meat is added in?

PvE can be much more than just killing stuff. Right now though anything they could add to improve PvE requires lots of basics to be in place first, else you end up with just more grinding, i.e. the skill itself and a few items or actions to raise the skill, but nothing to really affect gameplay. Even more cool architecture parts like bridges is really still just more of the same, so the ooh and aah factor wears off quicker each time new items are added to an existing skill. A lot of people are feeming for farming and cooking, but what will they actually add to the game besides more busy work? Don't get me wrong, I love little stuff like farming that adds to the sense of a complete living world, but is the hype (in the player's own minds) going to be equal to what we will get with the initial system? Jordi has admitted it will only be a few crops "at first".

It also doesn't help that in between every biggish feature they've added so far they have gotten side tracked with core tech issues like lag and database optimizations, etc.

[Willowhawk]

I solo hunt most of the time and needing to find animals adds to the "Hunting" experience for me. For one person it isn't that hard. I also drag my cart with me every time I go hunting. I find a good place to park it then wander that area a bit before moving on. Yes it is slow, but it feels more realistic than anything I have played before. I can hunt the whole evening and carry it all back in the cart with no problem. I have been carving out trees along the rivers so each time I go travel gets a little better. As time goes on and people inhabit more areas and clear more paths and build more roads travel should get better. Which is part of rebuilding the world.

I would like to see Deer herd since that is what they do in a real environment. I think small animals like squirrels, rabbits marmotts etc should be easy enough for the beginner players to go hunting while Deer Coyote medium difficulty and Bears being the hardest. Mutants should be more rare than the normal mobs and much tougher to kill. Large ones like Plateback and Shadow bears should need a strong group to kill.

[Hodo]

PVE isnt that bad the further away from the city ruins you get. The problem is there is no rhyme or reason to any of them.

I would like to see some of the smaller animals become more common year round, like squirrels, pine marlins, and racoons, and foxes. But some of the larger animals rarer. The other day I had 4 brown bears in a 100m radius of my totem.

Some animals are pack/heard animals others arent. Currently everything is a pack animal.

It is rare I see a solitary bear, but I seem to always stumble into a solitary coyote, which IS a pack animal.

I would also like to see other forms of food.

Fish is good and all, but we have animals, so meat would be good too. Give those squirrels a use.

[Azurfale]

I also think that zombies will add a lot to the game once implemented. I am hoping that I will actually have to work with other tribes in the area to assist me in removing them(I want them to be super hard to kill lol)

[znaiika]

I also think that zombies will add a lot to the game once implemented. I am hoping that I will actually have to work with other tribes in the area to assist me in removing them(I want them to be super hard to kill lol)

I hope zombies won't be able to go through fences.

[Hodo]

I also think that zombies will add a lot to the game once implemented. I am hoping that I will actually have to work with other tribes in the area to assist me in removing them(I want them to be super hard to kill lol)

They wont amount to a hill of beans if they dont fight in water.

[znaiika]

They wont amount to a hill of beans if they dont fight in water.

Since when you find water as combat ground? You should not fight in water as well since you'd loose stamina in combat mode much faster in water and drown.
No one should be able to fight in water.

[Willowhawk]

Since when you find water as combat ground?

Where do you come up with this stuff?

Every MMO ever made! WOW, Everquest, Vanguard, Irth, AOC...... I could go on.

And in Real life hunters chase their prey through forest and yes through rivers. They even find them face down in the steams on occasion.

Now if a Flesh eating Zombie is chasing YOU through the forest to eat YOUR flesh, you think it is going to stop chasing you because you are standing in water? Do you realise how utterly lame that is?? And if it catches you in the water you are saying you can't fight for your life because you will get too tired? Then get out of the water!! Or you can lay down and die, I will be fighting for all it's worth LOL

[Kegan]

It all boils down to the AI/mechanics of the animals that is causing the troubles with the game. They can't fight in the water and they cant escape from pits this is all causing problems. If you know what you are doing you can run the animal around and not even get hit as well, from what i have seen in the last few days. I am sure they are going to look into this as soon as they can and in the end all will be fixed but saying you can't fight in water is not the answer.

Sure it would be nice to see more animals out there but right now with the bugs i can see why they are not increasing the spawn of them.

[znaiika]

And in Real life hunters chase their prey through forest and yes through rivers.
Now if a Flesh eating Zombie is chasing YOU through the forest to eat YOUR flesh.


Hunters chase their prey not the way around.
Plus, you can get a rifle and head-shot bear instantly to its death, in game you have to hit multiple times to kill that same animal.
In reality I can stomp squirrel, mice, rabbit...... they can't do a thing about it.
And I didn't know that Xsyon transform from post apocalyptic to Resident Evil.
I think they should scrap this Zombie implementation and prevent from destroying it's main role to rebuild civilization, and would save a lot of coding.
Zombies would be only good for events, to feel a bit entertained, "occasionally".

[Drevar]

Wow...just...wow.

If I said anymore it would be deemed trolling and a personal attack, so...*bites tongue*

[Willowhawk]

Wow...just...wow.

If I said anymore it would be deemed trolling and a personal attack, so...*bites tongue*

You're right Drevar, there are no words........

[MrDDT]

Hunters chase their prey not the way around.
Plus, you can get a rifle and head-shot bear instantly to its death, in game you have to hit multiple times to kill that same animal.
In reality I can stomp squirrel, mice, rabbit...... they can't do a thing about it.
And I didn't know that Xsyon transform from post apocalyptic to Resident Evil.
I think they should scrap this Zombie implementation and prevent from destroying it's main role to rebuild civilization, and would save a lot of coding.
Zombies would be only good for events, to feel a bit entertained, "occasionally".


Thanks for your thoughts.

I think you should quit posting go back to other games like ATITD, or something. If you dont want combat in your games maybe you shouldnt pick games that have combat as a major part of the game. Like ATITD. (http://www.atitd.com/) They even say "crafting, and tradeskill MMO".
Read the features page, and the FAQ of a game before you buy it.

Xsyon was made to have evil in the game. Its all over the place. So far you have shown you know next to nothing about Xsyon the game, nor how an MMO works. You dont understand basic systems in game at all and try to make opinions on how things should progress off a failed understand of these systems.

Please just stop posting.

[znaiika]

Xsyon was made to have evil in the game.


It says nothing about Zombies, as far as I can remember, it is stated about mutated creatures though.
Unless people become Zombies who live too close to the green mist.
Shadow bears are evil, I encourage you to go hunt them, if you want to feel danger.
They usually wonder close to green mist.

[MrDDT]

It says nothing about Zombies, as far as I can remember, it is stated about mutated creatures though.
Unless people become Zombies who live too close to the green mist.
Shadow bears are evil, I encourage you to go hunt them, if you want to feel danger.
They usually wonder close to green mist.

Dont worry, they are not adding zombies to the game, they are adding revenants.

You really need to read man, can you stop posting please? Its on the first page. Type www.Xsyon.com

"Creatures of mutation and mythology now populate the land. The ways of swords and sorcery have replaced the path of science and progress."

Just stop posting please, you know nothing about this game, and you keep posting and posting and posting. You will not stop no matter how many times you are proven wrong over and over.

If you dont like the game QUIT! This game isnt for you if you cant handle what the game is about. It will have evil in the game, there will be combat, there is FFA PVP, there is full loot. You dont like it go back to ATITD no one is stopping you. Stay out of Xsyon if you dont like what its about.

But please stop posting your jibber jabber when you are wrong in every way.

Haha, animals dont attack in water. I love it.

[aliksteel]

@znaiika
MrDTT join Xsyon in Feb of 2010, And from talks with him I think he has been around even longer than that. I joined Mar of 2010, And I knew that there would be zombies in the game from that same month. So zombies as far as I know has aways going to be apart of the game.

I see that you joined Xsyon in Jan of 2011, And have just over 200 post/comments. Not sure if you joined and jumped right in game or not, But you do seem to be a little behind on what is and what is not happening with Xsyon. I'm not like MrDDT and think you should leave the game, But it may help you on the forums and talking about the game here if you was to take a day or two and dig into the forums. Most of us has been talking about this game for two years or longer. We have cover a lot of ground, And found that some things seem to be set in stone while othere things the players can have a say in.

Check out the Questions of Week http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/2522-Official-Answers-by-week That will give you a leg up, And dig around the forums, Jump in-game and talk to the players. It want take long to catch up.

[Hodo]

Hunters chase their prey not the way around.
Plus, you can get a rifle and head-shot bear instantly to its death, in game you have to hit multiple times to kill that same animal.
In reality I can stomp squirrel, mice, rabbit...... they can't do a thing about it.
And I didn't know that Xsyon transform from post apocalyptic to Resident Evil.
I think they should scrap this Zombie implementation and prevent from destroying it's main role to rebuild civilization, and would save a lot of coding.
Zombies would be only good for events, to feel a bit entertained, "occasionally".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGt_hSCYL2U

Fast forward to 1:11sec...

All I have to say about that.

[znaiika]

Dont worry, they are not adding zombies to the game, they are adding revenants.



Then why people call them Zombies? if they are not?
I am not afraid of Zombies.
You said earlier that they should cut the resources, and yet you're asking for more animals to kill for more resources, and now "revenants" and asking for revenants to have yet more resources, and you think economy will be how you want it? please, make up your mind, it's either more resources? or better economy? or widespread PVP.

[Cyrianna]

@Znaiika -

http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Game-Programming-Dummies-LaMothe/dp/0764503375

go make your own game, and stop posting your dribble here

kk thx

[znaiika]

@Znaiika -

http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Game-Programming-Dummies-LaMothe/dp/0764503375

go make your own game, and stop posting your dribble here

kk thx

I think you people are going way over your heads, and off the topic.



All I have to say about that.


If this is what you can say about this thread then why bother saying anything? You are offending people and I am surprised that no Guides giving you a warning.

[MrDDT]

Then why people call them Zombies? if they are not?
I am not afraid of Zombies.
You said earlier that they should cut the resources, and yet you're asking for more animals to kill for more resources, and now "revenants" and asking for revenants to have yet more resources, and you think economy will be how you want it? please, make up your mind, it's either more resources? or better economy? or widespread PVP.


Yep cut the resources, very good.
Adding more animals and cut the resources they give. I know it might be confusing how you add 1 thing and then subtract another.
So let me type it out for you just in case.
Currently we have say 2000 animals in game. Each animal can give say 30bones, and 1 leather. 60000 bones, and 2000 leather.
Adding say 20000 animals (that's 10x more than before), Now cut the number of resources they give by 10x. So instead of 30 bones they would give 3, and 1 in 10 animals would give a leather.
So that would be 60000 bones, and 2000 leather still.


I think you people are going way over your heads, and off the topic.



If this is what you can say about this thread then why bother saying anything? You are offending people and I am surprised that no Guides giving you a warning.

If you cant talk about the topic dont post. Please move on from my tread and take it to PM's. Stop trolling.

Now back on topic, anyone else that understands the game have some comments?

I think we had a lot of good comments by people focusing on the topic.

[znaiika]

Yep cut the resources, very good.
Adding more animals and cut the resources they give. I know it might be confusing how you add 1 thing and then subtract another.
So let me type it out for you just in case.
Currently we have say 2000 animals in game. Each animal can give say 30bones, and 1 leather. 60000 bones, and 2000 leather.
Adding say 20000 animals (that's 10x more than before), Now cut the number of resources they give by 10x. So instead of 30 bones they would give 3, and 1 in 10 animals would give a leather.
So that would be 60000 bones, and 2000 leather still.

Now we're on track, finally.
Cut resources that is good.
All the undead "revenants", mutated animals and such should always stay close to green mist, all other animals should stay up in the woods or mountains, and only sometimes wonder in player populated ares, mostly in winter.
I realy want to feel like I am going for a hunt instead of all creature come to me.

[MrDDT]

Now we're on track, finally.
Cut resources that is good.
All the undead "revenants", mutated animals and such should always stay close to green mist, all other animals should stay up in the woods or mountains, and only sometimes wonder in player populated ares, mostly in winter.
I realy want to feel like I am going for a hunt instead of all creature come to me.

The current system in game already supports this, any animals that are killed cant breed thus its natural for them to move away from populated areas.

If you have to many animals in your area that means you are not keeping them pushed back enough, and need to hunt them down, to clear them out a bit.

Again another comment because you don't understand the game.

[znaiika]

The current system in game already supports this, any animals that are killed cant breed thus its natural for them to move away from populated areas.

If you have to many animals in your area that means you are not keeping them pushed back enough, and need to hunt them down, to clear them out a bit.

Again another comment because you don't understand the game.

Not exactly true, next to my tribe aren't any animals, I went hunting further in the mountains little animals too.
Seams like you never leave your castle and thus don't know how it is up in the mountains.
Again another comment because you don't understand the game.

[MrDDT]

Not exactly true, next to my tribe aren't any animals, I went hunting further in the mountains little animals too.
Seams like you never leave your castle and thus don't know how it is up in the mountains.
Again another comment because you don't understand the game.

I don't get how you say I don't leave my castle. First I have psted videos of me and my tribe hunting many times.

Second is all the zones near my tribe is clear of animals. Do you know what that means? It mean zero animals. Not a few, or some. Zero!

Next is if you read what is going on, is we travel for hours hunting to kill animals. Last night I traveled 10 zones and killed 1 animal.

I don't have a choice to not kill animals because if I leave one behind I wouldn't have killed anything in 2 hours of tavelling.

I understand the game better than anyone you will talk to.

Again why do you think there is no animals in my area? Because we cleared them out.

[Hodo]

If this is what you can say about this thread then why bother saying anything? You are offending people and I am surprised that no Guides giving you a warning.

Did you watch the clip? Did you understand the clip?

And in infraction club, you dont talk about infractions.


I don't get how you say I don't leave my castle. First I have psted videos of me and my tribe hunting many times.

Second is all the zones near my tribe is clear of animals. Do you know what that means? It mean zero animals. Not a few, or some. Zero!

Next is if you read what is going on, is we travel for hours hunting to kill animals. Last night I traveled 10 zones and killed 1 animal.

I don't have a choice to not kill animals because if I leave one behind I wouldn't have killed anything in 2 hours of tavelling.

I understand the game better than anyone you will talk to.

Again why do you think there is no animals in my area? Because we cleared them out.

I can attest to this, I have run from my totem, past his totem, 6 more boards past his totem, and I have seen a grand total over 12 grids, 6 animals. 3 in my zone, and 3 in the mountains 6 boards away from his.

The most I have seen was 10 in one zone, it was 5 Douglas Squirrels, and 3 Bears, 2 plateback hamsters.

[MGStewart]

one thing i disagree with is difficulty. You say animals are easy to solo but thats because you been playin ages and your maxed. Where as people like me die to a rat. 1v1. even if i start with full strength

[MrDDT]

one thing i disagree with is difficulty. You say animals are easy to solo but thats because you been playin ages and your maxed. Where as people like me die to a rat. 1v1. even if i start with full strength

You try using the water tactic? You take no damage. I can use a poor QL starter knife naked and kill a 12 year old Shadowbear. Its really fun you should try it. Start out with like 5 blades skill end up with like 30 blades skill, without taking 1 point of damage.

Anyone can do it.

[Book]

I think revenants will indeed add a lot to PVE. It's kind of a fine distinction between zombies and revenants, I'm not entirely sure the distinction completely applies here beyond merely vocabulary. I won't know that until I see how revenants behave. Kind of an anthropological question which we'll have to study in the field. I presume they won't make nice, but revenants, by definition, are not necessarily evil. Zombies, being simply the body of an ex-human controlled by a supernatural force for evil purposes only (again, by definition), are indeed evil.

A revenant is essentially best understood by francophone individuals who know the word "revenir." That's all it is. It is a person who has come back, most often as a spirit or ghost. Of course, if I am killed, and a revenant spawns, then clearly that revenant can't be me. To make sure there is no misunderstanding, the revenant can't be me because I am me. There is only one of me, and the revenant necessarily having to be an individual having come back, I cannot exist as both myself and a revenant. Neither can any of you. It is impossible, it simply cannot exist.

Beckons the question (to me anyway), are the revenants actually people from before the apocalypse coming back? If so, might they have any memories of the past we can only piece together? Are they able to communicate? Organize? Trade? We won't know until contact is made.

Anyway, there's another component that will add to the PVE that hasn't been fully implemented and hasn't really gotten much dev-love in quite some time as far as I know. The idea is to have quest totems so that the citizens of xsyon themselves can create the PVE (or PVP) content. There are many things about the game to fill out before that becomes a viable option though.

also, could we please stop with the whole "stop posting, leave the game, and other assorted unpleasantries? It really makes the community look childish and annoying to potential customers. It is bad for the game. Thanks.

[tomduril]

First my opinion about PVE content and difficulty ..
I made a crafter - High DEX, INT, Perception - low AGI, STR, FOR so I dont expect a very high damage output - so with a full swing I achieve about 10.0 points damage - 13 if I manage to get behind an animal. With normal short stabs and swings I make about 3.0 damage...

I can fight a normal coyote and racoons ... a Deer or a Bear are out of reach for me. I managed to lure 2 deers into a river and started to fight them there - after about 15 hits (took me 1-2 minutes) one of them was at 25% health ... so this lovely and quite intelligent deer started to flee - well with low AGI ... I can not really keep it close distance - at least not for the 5-6 swings I have to hit it with. So all I could do is fight those deers for 5 minutes until both fleed (up a slope I could not climb btw) - and so fast that I could not follow. Nevertheless I survived...
If MrDDT (or any other hunter/fighter with Hunting/Fighting gear) says that all animals are solo possible - well not for me and my crafter character - which is probably also due to my low understanding of how combat works in Xsyon (I dont want to learn it - so I dont hunt ...) - but as a Master Basketry Crafter - I need to get grass materials - and the PVE encounters I have are totally sufficient for me.

Second (sry for the long post): PVE Content - and User Quests: just 2 days ago I added a quest on the totem and another player used that quest to get what he wanted (a pair of pliers). It worked just fine - and I wondered why very few people use that system... here is what I came up with:
1) Most active players have sucessfully enclosed their land with baricades and most totems are out of reach for other players (due to the animals we had to create "Safe places") - not everyone of us has managed to clean out several zones ... So getting to a totem is not so easy -
2) It works only with small things (like tools, armor, patterns) - cause what would someone do with - lets say 300 bricks - at a foreign totem ? how would someone transport them home - on the other hand - say I want to trade for foragers cart axle ... those things are heavy - who would put up the effort to travel half the map with 3 of the axles to trade them at a totem
3) Although I open each totem I find on my travels - NONE (I mean not a single one) had any quests - so after some time I stopped looking for quests... A simple feature that would allow people to see where Quests are definied - would attract more people to do those quests - resulting in more people creating quests (at least I believe so). I hope only the best for the rework on the quest system!

PVE content could be there - people are not using the full potential of what is there already - and thats why there is less PVE than there could be...

[Kegan]

Second (sry for the long post): PVE Content - and User Quests: just 2 days ago I added a quest on the totem and another player used that quest to get what he wanted (a pair of pliers). It worked just fine - and I wondered why very few people use that system... here is what I came up with:
1) Most active players have sucessfully enclosed their land with baricades and most totems are out of reach for other players (due to the animals we had to create "Safe places") - not everyone of us has managed to clean out several zones ... So getting to a totem is not so easy -
2) It works only with small things (like tools, armor, patterns) - cause what would someone do with - lets say 300 bricks - at a foreign totem ? how would someone transport them home - on the other hand - say I want to trade for foragers cart axle ... those things are heavy - who would put up the effort to travel half the map with 3 of the axles to trade them at a totem
3) Although I open each totem I find on my travels - NONE (I mean not a single one) had any quests - so after some time I stopped looking for quests... A simple feature that would allow people to see where Quests are definied - would attract more people to do those quests - resulting in more people creating quests (at least I believe so). I hope only the best for the rework on the quest system!

Now that you have brought the quest system into the topic you are right most people do have there totems enclosed with walls. It would be nice to see an item/structure that you could build outside of your walls that would handle these things. Kind of like an extension of your totem you could place anywhere

[znaiika]

Now that you have brought the quest system into the topic you are right most people do have there totems enclosed with walls. It would be nice to see an item/structure that you could build outside of your walls that would handle these things. Kind of like an extension of your totem you could place anywhere

Something like Bulletin board.

[Hodo]

also, could we please stop with the whole "stop posting, leave the game, and other assorted unpleasantries? It really makes the community look childish and annoying to potential customers. It is bad for the game. Thanks.


I think most of us would stop that, if it werent for the inundation of asinine haphazard suggestions by a certain individual.

[MrDDT]

First my opinion about PVE content and difficulty ..
I made a crafter - High DEX, INT, Perception - low AGI, STR, FOR so I dont expect a very high damage output - so with a full swing I achieve about 10.0 points damage - 13 if I manage to get behind an animal. With normal short stabs and swings I make about 3.0 damage...

I can fight a normal coyote and racoons ... a Deer or a Bear are out of reach for me. I managed to lure 2 deers into a river and started to fight them there - after about 15 hits (took me 1-2 minutes) one of them was at 25% health ... so this lovely and quite intelligent deer started to flee - well with low AGI ... I can not really keep it close distance - at least not for the 5-6 swings I have to hit it with. So all I could do is fight those deers for 5 minutes until both fleed (up a slope I could not climb btw) - and so fast that I could not follow. Nevertheless I survived...
If MrDDT (or any other hunter/fighter with Hunting/Fighting gear) says that all animals are solo possible - well not for me and my crafter character - which is probably also due to my low understanding of how combat works in Xsyon (I dont want to learn it - so I dont hunt ...) - but as a Master Basketry Crafter - I need to get grass materials - and the PVE encounters I have are totally sufficient for me.



1) You didnt note anything on the skill level of your combat which makes up most of the damage in your attacks.
2) Weapons being used? Armor being used? (These really dont matter because you dont get hurt and you have all the time in the world to kill it)
2) Basic math tells you that you would do more damage in the back than 13 when you do 10 to the front.
3) Even with high AGI people cant catch fleeing deer, you just wait for them to run a a second they will stop and you can easy kill them.
4) If it takes you 1 to 2 mins to attack 15 times, you are afk or just chilling for most of that time.
5) You are a crafter toon and clearly you dont want to learn to fight, thus saying you cant fight them isnt the same as you dont want to learn to. Under the current PVE setting anyone can kill any animal without fear very easy.


None the less if this is difficult to you, its because you dont want to learn to play. It would be like someone saying they dont want to charge up their weapons to attack something and saying animals are too hard.

About PVE quest totems. Different topic. Adding quests on totems isnt going to change the amount of PVE in the game nor the fun level of the combat.

[Hodo]

None the less if this is difficult to you, its because you dont want to learn to play.

Thats just being unfair. But otherwise I agree with you.

[Book]

@tomduril, thanks for the update on the status of quests! Good to know it is functional. Good observations on a few things that need some attention too.

One problem that has been mentioned in the past is that someone could accept the quest, never complete it, and you would kind of be stuck unable to make a new quest and unable to access the thing you were offering as a reward. It may no longer be that way, or perhaps I had misunderstood from the beginning, but I think that used to be a concern that turned people off.

How specific can the quest be? For instance, can I ask for a particular type of fabric, in a particular color, with particular stats? I could see that being really helpful to mass production crafters.

@Kegan, yes, I'm pretty sure I remember there being talk of "quest" totems in the future that can be placed by a front door rather than requiring access to the main totem. Unfortunately, I don't remember if there was any dev input on the idea.

@Znaiika, The goods and services forum could be used as sort of a bulleting board / advertisement system for available quests. I've seen people put some pretty detailed trade offers in there!

Have a super fun week-end folks! :D

[Umirshand]

The most fun I've EVER had in this game, was when they reset all the animals and thousands spawned. It was absolute chaos! Newbs were dying by the truck load and i spent a good deal of time clearing out animals from people's tribelands. So, why not reset them every spring? At least until the AI breeding and distribution are fixed and working properly. This would bring an anticipation/reason to have seasons besides waiting for the white wash to pass. Makes sense to me. Of course I'm no programmer but I would'nt think it would be that hard to reset animals. The OP is absolutely correct here. There ARE NO animals. I don't care what the devs say, they simply do not exist atm. 5 rats and a rabbit in 4 zones is, IMO, not a fucntioning AI. So if they want some PVE elements, just reset AI in the spring and BAMM! Instant fun and fear for everyone....and something to do other then craft useless items...

[NorCalGooey]

The most fun I've EVER had in this game, was when they reset all the animals and thousands spawned. It was absolute chaos! Newbs were dying by the truck load and i spent a good deal of time clearing out animals from people's tribelands. So, why not reset them every spring? At least until the AI breeding and distribution are fixed and working properly. This would bring an anticipation/reason to have seasons besides waiting for the white wash to pass. Makes sense to me. Of course I'm no programmer but I would'nt think it would be that hard to reset animals. The OP is absolutely correct here. There ARE NO animals. I don't care what the devs say, they simply do not exist atm. 5 rats and a rabbit in 4 zones is, IMO, not a fucntioning AI. So if they want some PVE elements, just reset AI in the spring and BAMM! Instant fun and fear for everyone....and something to do other then craft useless items...


I agree, I had a lot of fun when this happened. The game feels like a crafting chat room, and to feel like an MMO it will need more excitement forced upon the player from time to time. Hell, to stop it all you have to do is build walls if you really hate it that much. But I think most people will really enjoy it.

Even better than this, and more realistic, would be to keep the animals fairly rare, since they have such diverse bone parts and uses (dexterity, str, etc)... and then make zombie revenants spawn as much as animals spawned during that one reset and AI patch.. and be very aggressive (50-100 meter aggro ranges).

[znaiika]

1) You didnt note anything on the skill level of your combat which makes up most of the damage in your attacks.
2) Weapons being used? Armor being used? (These really dont matter because you dont get hurt and you have all the time in the world to kill it)
2) Basic math tells you that you would do more damage in the back than 13 when you do 10 to the front.
3) Even with high AGI people cant catch fleeing deer, you just wait for them to run a a second they will stop and you can easy kill them.
4) If it takes you 1 to 2 mins to attack 15 times, you are afk or just chilling for most of that time.
5) You are a crafter toon and clearly you dont want to learn to fight, thus saying you cant fight them isnt the same as you dont want to learn to. Under the current PVE setting anyone can kill any animal without fear very easy.


None the less if this is difficult to you, its because you dont want to learn to play. It would be like someone saying they dont want to charge up their weapons to attack something and saying animals are too hard.

About PVE quest totems. Different topic. Adding quests on totems isnt going to change the amount of PVE in the game nor the fun level of the combat.

All he is saying is!!!!
He can't do solo some animals without water debuff, he is forced to jump in water even for smaller animals because he can even die from small animals, and if you make animals to fight back in water? then he would not have chance for survival, even if he would want to jump in a water and wait until animal wonder off.
You can just stay still MrDDT without any fear of dying from small animals, in all that gear and 300 HP, you regenerate HP faster then small animal would damage you, but not the case with new player, and please, telling someone to stay on founders island? is Bs, people enter the world to adventure not to stay in one place.
I do have low AGI and I did tried to catch deer, it's pointless, seams like deer has a full stamina but in fact it's stamina is 0, I think it is a bug that all animals have.
It's clear, you don't understand about games mechanics.
How long it was? using one post and one pole to level Architecture? You didn't even consider that as an exploit, before I came along and mentioned about it on forums, you where OK with that, I think your Architecture should be reset to at least 25 :)

FYI I stopped using water to kill animals on my own, because I can kill them now without water just fine and it is more fun, I don't try to kill bears if it is too big dear are too fast.

@Umirshand.
Would be a lot of fun if animals reset every spring, totally agree.
Breed should be in more numbers for certain animals, like dogs, mice, etc... more deer packs.

[MrDDT]

All he is saying is!!!!
He can't do solo some animals without water debuff, he is forced to jump in water even for smaller animals because he can even die from small animals, and if you make animals to fight back in water? then he would not have chance for survival, even if he would want to jump in a water and wait until animal wonder off.
You can just stay still MrDDT without any fear of dying from small animals, in all that gear and 300 HP, you regenerate HP faster then small animal would damage you, but not the case with new player, and please, telling someone to stay on founders island? is Bs, people enter the world to adventure not to stay in one place.
I do have low AGI and I did tried to catch deer, it's pointless, seams like deer has a full stamina but in fact it's stamina is 0, I think it is a bug that all animals have.
It's clear, you don't understand about games mechanics.
How long it was? using one post and one pole to level Architecture? You didn't even consider that as an exploit, before I came along and mentioned about it on forums, you where OK with that, I think your Architecture should be reset to at least 25 :)

FYI I stopped using water to kill animals on my own, because I can kill them now without water just fine and it is more fun, I don't try to kill bears if it is too big dear are too fast.

@Umirshand.
Would be a lot of fun if animals reset every spring, totally agree.
Breed should be in more numbers for certain animals, like dogs, mice, etc... more deer packs.


No, he was saying he CAN'T kill it in the water or using the water.

I can kill any animal using a 1 second old toon. I would be more than happy to show you if you want its very very easy.

If you let the deer run away for a second, and dont try to follow it right away, it will run about 25m and stop. Then you walk up to it and attack it again. If you start to get hurt pull it back to the water. Its very very simple.

What are you talking about Architecture here for? Also are you really trying to tell me of all people that I exploited the dismantling the post? Have you seen my city? You have to be kidding me. Ive built more walls floors and roofs than I can count, and likely more than anyone else on the server.

I'm glad you dont use water to kill them. Sadly it just makes my point even worse. If even a poorly played player like yourself who has little combat training and bad stats can kill them "just fine" sounds like we need to rebalance some of the animals or at the very least group some of them up better.

Please take your personal attacks of exploiting, your bad ideas and your missunderstanding of what people are saying and just stop posting its really just sad, very very very sad to have to reply to these ignorant posts of yours. (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ignorant 1a, I wanted to make sure people didnt think I was using 1b)

1)Learn the game. I cant stress this enough. LEARN THE GAME. Then think about it, and post.
2)Reread what was said, understand it, maybe even talk it over with a friend thats playing. I do it all the time. Then post well thought out replies using facts and things that are in game.

[znaiika]

I'm glad you dont use water to kill them. Sadly it just makes my point even worse. If even a poorly played player like yourself who has little combat training and bad stats can kill them "just fine" sounds like we need to rebalance some of the animals or at the very least group some of them up better.

I can kill animals because I have made some armor for myself and started with mutilator in my hand, and have a place to hide and using tactics.
You fast on misjudging people because you're ignorant selfish person.
If you have so much? why don't you donate some armor and weapons for new players? so they can be better protected.
Wait, you need slaves, why should anyone survive solo?

Are you saying that no new player should survive any animals? that's just cold and selfish.

[MrDDT]

I can kill animals because I have made some armor for myself and started with mutilator in my hand, and have a place to hide and using tactics.
You fast on misjudging people because you're ignorant selfish person.
If you have so much? why don't you donate some armor and weapons for new players? so they can be better protected.
Wait, you need slaves, why should anyone survive solo?

Are you saying that no new player should survive any animals? that's just cold and selfish.


1) Stop the personal attacks. (When I was talking about your player skill, it was because you said you were bad before)
2) What does me having a ton of stuff have to do with balancing PVE? (Remove your focus on ME as a player, and think of the overall system)
3) I dont need slaves, heck you said it yourself I have a ton of stuff, why would I need slaves? (Again remove your focus on me as a player and think of the overall system)
4) Where you getting that Im saying new players cant survive "any" animal? I'm saying that newer players shouldn't be able to kill the hardest animals in the game. The hardest animals in the game should REQUIRE good armor, good weapons, good skills, good stats, and maybe even some teamwork, with lots of good tactics. New players will want to build up killing easier smaller animals and run away, and hide from shadowbears. I think that makes commonsense.


Overall, I can see you want to try to talk about me as a player, when you need to remove that from what's going on. Think of players as advanced, new, vets, crafters, PVPers, PVEers etc.

You are doing a lot of talk about Me (MrDDT) the player, instead of think of the system that's working or not working here.

If advanced players, or vets, or high stat combat guys whatever you want to call MrDDT, is having issues having fun in the game. Whether you like it or not, there is a problem. Other players will get there. Now what you have to do is value how much that is a problem and how soon it will be a bigger problem.

Other side of the coin is newer players, or crafters, or low skilled players are having a problem in game also, again you have to value how much thats a problem, how soon it will be a bigger problem or maybe even how soon it will be fixed with them being advanced in skill or stats.


Right now, I see a problem for both Advanced players / Vets, and new players with no skills. Which Ive already talked about in this thread.

[Book]

Znaiika, don't feed the trolls as it's the drama that just keeps it negative and wasting everyone else's time reading these forums.

If you see an idea you like, discuss it, promote it, kindly debate it, but adding fuel to a drama queen's fire is a failing proposition every single time that will only be manipulated and distorted to work against you. I hate to say it, but you can't win. It can't be done but the very act of trying is playing right into the silly little games and thus constitutes failure from the get-go.

Focus on the positive, don't get lured in by the rest. You'll eventually see they only get lip service anyway while the game continues to improve in a direction the rest of us like.

[znaiika]

Znaiika, don't feed the trolls as it's the drama that just keeps it negative and wasting everyone else's time reading these forums.

If you see an idea you like, discuss it, promote it, kindly debate it, but adding fuel to a drama queen's fire is a failing proposition every single time that will only be manipulated and distorted to work against you. I hate to say it, but you can't win. It can't be done but the very act of trying is playing right into the silly little games and thus constitutes failure from the get-go.

Focus on the positive, don't get lured in by the rest. You'll eventually see they only get lip service anyway while the game continues to improve in a direction the rest of us like.

Agree with you here, overall I do think shadow bears need to be hard but not too hard, small animals not as much deadly, more animals in the world, faster animal breed and grow, stamina should work for animals as well, reset on spring for now based on animal population and fixed water bug.

[Azurfale]

Znaiika, don't feed the trolls as it's the drama that just keeps it negative and wasting everyone else's time reading these forums.

If you see an idea you like, discuss it, promote it, kindly debate it, but adding fuel to a drama queen's fire is a failing proposition every single time that will only be manipulated and distorted to work against you. I hate to say it, but you can't win. It can't be done but the very act of trying is playing right into the silly little games and thus constitutes failure from the get-go.

Focus on the positive, don't get lured in by the rest. You'll eventually see they only get lip service anyway while the game continues to improve in a direction the rest of us like.

The only troll here is Znaiika

[aliksteel]

I was hoping that there would be some fresh new idea's in this post, But for the most part it's the same type things we always talk about. One thing did pop out at me and that was

why not reset them every spring? At least until the AI breeding and distribution are fixed and working properly. This would bring an anticipation/reason to have seasons besides waiting for the white wash to pass. Makes sense to me.
I can see how this could be worked into just being something that happens every spring, Just like in real life spring is when most animals have and raise there young. So by having a ton more animals spawn in spring would seem to fit what we would see in the Xsyon world.

[MrDDT]

Tons of animals in the spring will not last the year. So they will work for about 1 or 2 weeks then for the other 5 weeks (real weeks) you are down to few or no animals again.

I understand that you want to try to keep things real, but this just doesnt make sense in a game for fun.

I say up the # of animals by like 10x, and cut the resources they give by 10x. I dont even think that will be enough but its a start.

[Book]

If it was as simple as upping the number of animals, wouldn't that have been done already?

When devs say they see X number of animals on the server, does that include the animals in the mist we can't access?

If you have a massive influx of animals every spring, and they are not all butchered, the ones that escape will all pile up in the mist and the server will grind to a halt.

I think the solution will be with the animal AI. I know they've worked on it, but look at loading times, I think when AI gets that kind of attention and focus, we'll see that quality and effective a fix.

Band aids may help in the meantime, or they may create more trouble than they're worth in the short term.

[zookeeper]

So far this winter I've killed 30+ regular animals and around 20+ mutants. I don't understand any of these comments that say they are not finding animals to kill. Maybe the animals migrated or something but I'm slammed with them in the areas I hunt. Just yesterday I killed a canis armadillis, shadow deer, 2 hunchback coyotes, 3 marmots, pit bull, 2 mule deer, chaos hare, and 3 raccoons. Most of these kills took just under a hour of adventuring to do and I was off to find more, I'm enjoying the pve.

[aliksteel]

LOL I understand that adding more animals will not fix everything, But if you could do that and maybe find a few more things to add to it, It would help, At lest a little. As far as "you want to try to keep things real", Maybe realish would be OK. I mean zombies are coming so real is not what this game is. All I was saying was that by adding once a (in-game) year increase of animals would maybe help a little. Fix no, But maybe one little thing like this could help with the PVE. In or out, it doesn't matter to me. I just thought it was a cool idea.

And I hope you all are not looking that ONE thing that could fix the PVE, It will come from many little things (IMO).

[Willowhawk]

So far this winter I've killed 30+ regular animals and around 20+ mutants. I don't understand any of these comments that say they are not finding animals to kill. Maybe the animals migrated or something but I'm slammed with them in the areas I hunt. Just yesterday I killed a canis armadillis, shadow deer, 2 hunchback coyotes, 3 marmots, pit bull, 2 mule deer, chaos hare, and 3 raccoons. Most of these kills took just under a hour of adventuring to do and I was off to find more, I'm enjoying the pve.

I have to agree with zookeeper, however... last night and this morning there was an abundance of animals everywhere. So I have to wonder if there was not a reset, or an intentional change in population. Having said that, I have enjoyed hunting lately and have had little trouble finding animals. However I don't spend the entire time hunting. I clear trees to make future travel easier with my cart. I do some forestry, bit of scavenging and even some fishing rounding out my trip. To me this feels like a real hunting trip. For those people that just want to hunt, PVE & PVP I can see where they would get bored real fast. We try to play the game as I believe it was intended, to play the game as if you actually lived in the mountains and are building your future home, town etc. We stay busy with so many things I never get bored and most of the time we have too much to do. I guess it's all how you play the game. :D

Also we have real lives and real careers so we don't suffer from game burn out like some people do. :p

[Book]

So far this winter I've killed 30+ regular animals and around 20+ mutants. I don't understand any of these comments that say they are not finding animals to kill. Maybe the animals migrated or something but I'm slammed with them in the areas I hunt. Just yesterday I killed a canis armadillis, shadow deer, 2 hunchback coyotes, 3 marmots, pit bull, 2 mule deer, chaos hare, and 3 raccoons. Most of these kills took just under a hour of adventuring to do and I was off to find more, I'm enjoying the pve.

Should a zookeeper really be killing so many animals? Seems like a conflict of interest :p;):rolleyes:

[tomduril]

Ok just to set things right - I think that PVE not only means fighting but all aspects of "PVE" - player vs. environment - so things that are underway like - comfort, protection against weather (the little icon when you under a roof or in a building) - and hunger/thirst, encumbrance - those are all aspects of PVE for me.

As to animals - and their numbers - I think the real problem is the "sandbox" effect that huge raiding parties have on a region. Iif you go hunting in RL to a hunting ground - they have rules and regulations so that they dont kill the whole population.
- Don´t kill "mother" animals (the ones with little ones by their side)
- Don´t hunt in spring, when they are breeding
- In a hunting party you have a number of animals you are allowed to hunt (and hunts are expensive !!) ... and so on.
They also feed the animals in hunting areas - so that their animal stock can grow larger numbers...

I believe that in a sandbox - if you go hunting every week - with lets say 10-15 people - it should be that the animals vanish from that zone.

In my zone there are no hunting parties (that I know of) - and there are lots - and lots of animals - I craft most of the time (when I actually find time to play) - and the last 2 months - each and every time I was online I saw at least 5-10 animals.
I don´t lure them in the river to kill them - I am happy that there is a wall between them and me :) ... so they breed and get more and more.

Thats the core of a Sandbox game - what you do *does* change the world / zone. So if you want repawning enemies or animals go play a "themepark" game - they even spawn in the same region ... so you can hunt/grind what ever you choose. But in a Sandbox - you have to be careful what you do - if you hunt down all the bears - don´t complain about that they are gone...

It should and must be that way!

And @MrDDT - yes I don´t want to fight - still I think I know how to defend myself against raccons - but I am proud that I am afraid of coyotes, deers and bears, because they should be dangerous (for me).
For a skilled hunter they are prey - for me they are a sign that I should drop my heavy load and flee to the next save spot :P and I like it that way! (You are complaining about not enough PVE... I am not complaining I am having fun running and getting away with it :O ).