Stat Changes

[NorCalGooey]

I think you guys did a great job. The only thing ruining this is stat cap at 100. Not sure if this is a bug or intentional. Capping stats at 100 ruins the whole point of faster stat changes.

What you do is this, once a stat hits 100, it becomes 10% slower to level. When it hits 110, it becomes 20% slower, when it hits 120, 30% slower, etc, etc.

Then also what you could do is increase the speed of stat gains across the board for characters that are younger than X amount of time (like 6 months). Keep increasing this as time goes on (like every 6 months, give 10% bonus to stat gain for chars that have been created within the last 6 months) then a 20% bonus for chars created within that next 6 months time interval, 30% for the next 6 months, etc.

This will allow stats to never be capped, which is extremely important in keeping people interested, but also will allow for new players to gain stats faster than veterans, so they actually have a chance to catch up.

[zookeeper]

I don't agree with it going over 100 but you could do this with a 70 rule which does the same and makes getting to 100 harder and worth the effort. I don't like a system like this as it serves vets only and not new players but it does make those crafts more valuable as it requires more time invested and that has the effect of people seeking those players out for trade.

[MrDDT]

I don't agree with it going over 100 but you could do this with a 70 rule which does the same and makes getting to 100 harder and worth the effort. I don't like a system like this as it serves vets only and not new players but it does make those crafts more valuable as it requires more time invested and that has the effect of people seeking those players out for trade.


My problem is that people like me already have over 100. So what about us?

I agree with zookeeper.

I also think there should be a higher cap than 100. Maybe like 140ish or so. Give people a chance to focus.

[NorCalGooey]

I think the point is to make the cap unreachable. Ok so say the cap is at 150, but giong from 140-150 would take 500 hours game play of grinding the same stat. So it's basically no cap, but those who want to reach the cap can do so if they desire spending 20 days of their life (24 hours x 20 days) to max it out. I just like leaving that option open to people who REALLY enjoy specializing.

The system we have now is 0.1 stat change is the same length of time required at 10 in a stat as over 100 in a stat. I just hope they make a "soft cap" so to speak with stats too. IMO the cap on gaining stats should be when you can no longer lose any more stat points as well.

[MrDDT]

I think the point is to make the cap unreachable. Ok so say the cap is at 150, but giong from 140-150 would take 500 hours game play of grinding the same stat. Essentially, no cap.

The system we have now is 0.1 stat change is the same length of time required at 10 in a stat as over 100 in a stat. I just hope they make a "soft cap" so to speak with stats too. IMO the cap on gaining stats should be when you can no longer lose any more stat points as well.


Problem with this is, lets say you want 150 STR and you are at 140 STR now. Lets also say you have 5 charm which is your lowest stat.
If you scav 1 time you will lose hours worth of STR, because there is no way to lock it. So you wouldnt be able to do anything because of this soft cap system.


I would rather see a cap, not really needing a soft cap, but the cap at 100 which is only 10 points from the starting stat isnt much of a way to focus or for a vet to progress. It should be higher than 100. Even with the new stat system going from 90 to 140 would take months.

[NorCalGooey]

No it wouldn't take months, it would take like a week. I mean how it is on test server currently. However the stat gain may be set to 25x normal speed as well, so I honestly have no idea. All I know is I gained 1.0 fortitude in less than 30 minutes. Being able to lock stats would be nice. Or actually m aking it so it takes like 20-30 scavenges to lose 0.1, not 1 scavenge.

Also once your lowest stat hits 0, it would start pulling from the 2nd lowest stat.

[MrDDT]

No it wouldn't take months, it would take like a week. I mean how it is on test server currently. However the stat gain may be set to 25x normal speed as well, so I honestly have no idea. All I know is I gained 1.0 fortitude in less than 30 minutes.


[30mins x 25 x 50 (140 - 90 = 50) ] / 1.0 change = 625 hours of doing whatever it was you were doing.

[NorCalGooey]

Yes assuming stat changes are actually set to 25x right now.

If they are set to 25x, it's really hard to test the difference from the live server, if there is even a difference. 625 hours to gain 50 stat points is similar to before, where 1 stat point would take about 10-20 hours.

[MrDDT]

Yes assuming stat changes are actually set to 25x right now.

If they are set to 25x, it's really hard to test the difference from the live server, if there is even a difference. 625 hours to gain 50 stat points is similar to before, where 1 stat point would take about 10-20 hours.


Only 1 stat I know was 10 to 20 hours and that's STR from terraforming which IMO was at a pretty ok speed.
All the rest of the stats were 10x longer than terraforming / STR. Plus on the live server you dont lose stats in this way.

I was more just debating your week theory. Not saying that 625 is to short or long.

I believe gaining the highest level of a stat (which IMO should be around 140ish) should take a couple to a few months of working at it, from 90 (highest starting max).

To me this allows new players to catch up, but also allows other players to focus if they wish. If you wanted to be great at scavenging, well you would focus those stats (Scavenging: Charm | Perception), at the cost of other stats.

This will allow people that focus to gather at a higher success chance, higher chance to get higher QL items, and still allow other players that dont focus to be able to do everything. Just not very or as well.

[NorCalGooey]

I agree.

But what is with the 140. Such an odd number might as well just do 150.

I think a balanced speed would be 0.1 stat gains from 20 or 30 minutes of using the same skill. We'll see how it plays out once they take the 25x off.

[tomduril]

If there is no loss on skills - just redistribution - I need to skill up my low skills now :) because then my skillpoint pool will be larger than that of a player just started .. say i have 8 skills at 100 and 4 at 50 - my skill pool will be 1000 points - a newbee will have like 2 at 25 and 8 at 5 - 120 points in total ... I can not see how this should work out ? does the soft skill cap start at 50 ? or at 70 ?
I think that the vets will have a very large advantage, also because the skills sort of determine your HPs - so a vet will always have an unreachable HP for those who start new ... Not that I mind that much :)

However on my char I see a huge problem for the future ... charm is at 1.5 and perception at 101.6 ... if charm is really going to influence the skills as listed - my scavenging (at 100) will suck big time (Scavenging: Charm | Perception) :-/

[Drevar]

The stat cap isn't on individual skills, it is on the group. So a newb with few skills will be able to get several skills to 100 before they start to see the balancing kick in.

Right now it is hosed, anyway. I gained .1 in resource skill and dropped ALL my other Resources skills by .1, including 4 that were 100. 50 or so rocks for .1 of one skill and 20 hours of grinding the other 4 skills at 99.9 back up to 100. No thank you.

Silly thing is I had hunting at 17.3 and forestry at 62.x and yet it stole my 100s..not supposed to work like that.

[MrDDT]

If there is no loss on skills - just redistribution - I need to skill up my low skills now :) because then my skillpoint pool will be larger than that of a player just started .. say i have 8 skills at 100 and 4 at 50 - my skill pool will be 1000 points - a newbee will have like 2 at 25 and 8 at 5 - 120 points in total ... I can not see how this should work out ? does the soft skill cap start at 50 ? or at 70 ?
I think that the vets will have a very large advantage, also because the skills sort of determine your HPs - so a vet will always have an unreachable HP for those who start new ... Not that I mind that much :)

However on my char I see a huge problem for the future ... charm is at 1.5 and perception at 101.6 ... if charm is really going to influence the skills as listed - my scavenging (at 100) will suck big time (Scavenging: Charm | Perception) :-/


Nawh because they havnt put in skill decay yet. Just stat decay. Once they add skill decay based on pools vets will have the same max as new players.

All this is still in testing also so dont forget its subject to change.

About your charm problem. If scav is going to be your main goal you will want to level up charm. How to do that is by getting exp by either training skills or doing skills that give exp. Scaving more would also work to level charm and give exp. (now that you can get exp after 100 on the test server).
Each time you level up exp, you will get some stat points to adjust your stats. So you will want to put them into charm.

[BuckRogers]

This Patch, reminds me of SGW and THE PATCH!

Exampel: I have scavening on 100 and i make a other skill -> scavening decreases. Ergo I wan't to level up any other skill more -> boredom, because i cant make nothing more -> ingame jobless!

In our tribe, we have great earthworks on the run for a tribe projekt. Terraforming -> decreases scavening -> the people dont endanger for terraforming a other skill -> killing ingame projects from Tribe -> Tribe Projekt death!

Next, are now only my base stats for fishing perfectly. Other Ressources Skill i have now bad base skills. I must delete my character? To correct this?

And before come Patch, must be clear how it will look at the other skills and there base stats (Crafting Skills). Then again i have more or new stupid base stats later, because I do not know if there are changes in craftings skills.

In summary: Patch -> make me ingame jobless -> i have now stupid basis stats -> delete my Char, for better basis stats? -> months of skilling have no value -> increases the chance extremly I stop playing und stop paying for the Game. I do not you'll be the only one (including potential returnees the have now ruins skill and base stats).

[Aiden]

This Patch, reminds me of SGW and THE PATCH!

Exampel: I have scavening on 100 and i make a other skill -> scavening decreases. Ergo I wan't to level up any other skill more -> boredom, because i cant make nothing more -> ingame jobless!
In our tribe, we have great earthworks on the run for a tribe projekt. Terraforming -> decreases scavening -> the people dont endanger for terraforming a other skill -> killing ingame projects from Tribe -> Tribe Projekt death!

Next, are now only my base stats for fishing perfectly. Other Ressources Skill i have now bad base skills. I must delete my character? To correct this?

And before come Patch, must be clear how it will look at the other skills and there base stats (Crafting Skills). Then again i have more or new stupid base stats later, because I do not know if there are changes in craftings skills.

In summary: Patch -> make me ingame jobless -> i have now stupid basis stats -> delete my Char, for better basis stats? -> months of skilling have no value -> increases the chance extremly I stop playing und stop paying for the Game. I do not you'll be the only one (including potential returnees the have now ruins skill and base stats).

It's just on the test server...calm down a bit...the reason it wasn't patched live yesterday is because this team values feedback...and they're asking for it. The sky isn't falling on your head just yet, I promise!

[BuckRogers]

It's just on the test server...calm down a bit...the reason it wasn't patched live yesterday is because this team values feedback...and they're asking for it. The sky isn't falling on your head just yet, I promise!

Yes, this is on the test server. But if it comes, then there is what I described above. And the mainfeature ingame is the Skilling. Other activities does not exist. If you can make only one skill per category to 100 -> finish in a month -> jobless -> good bye game.

I just want to show what could happen, if it happens.

[Noxcuse]

with the new stats system ,,,...it is useless to discuss about it...it will kill the game..and the rest of the players will go...it kills the game for the homestatter...and you need in a tribe only spezialist...and no chance to make things togehther...if you loose points from your spezial skill/stats when you make some other things...


it this goes live..we need no more changes...the devs need a new job...lol, high five..nice job

[aliksteel]

@BuckRogers,
Specialization is what this is all about, Unless you are with the ones that want everyone to be able to do everything. This is a good thing. Remember at some point for the game to start changing the way it needs to, The people playing will have to deal with parts of the gaming being amputated, And also painful growth spurts as the game changes around us. It want be fun for everyone as this happens, And I'm sure things will change that will make me want to yell "What the heck man!!!", But for the game to become what it needs to be. We will have to deal with this from time to time.

[BuckRogers]

@aliksteel:

I have nothing against specialization, but not so! You can ONE Skill on 100 per categorie. What can be done even if one is skill per catecory at 100? Leveling a other Skill... and destroyed the 100 Point Skill. No! What do you do ingame? Twiddle my thumbs? Or PvP? PvP is ingame death! Or Hunting? No, Hunting destroyed the one 100 Point Ressources Skill. Or Terrafroming for the Tribe Buildproject? No, Terraforming destroyed the one 100 Point Ressources Skill.

So what can be doing Ingame?

[Fyrex]

I like most of the changes so far, I tested them for a couple hours this morning. My only issue was same with drevar that when I used a skill that wasn't at 100 it would take from my highest skill instead of the lowest skills. So all my skills at 100 are now not at 100 which is really annoying.

DDT had a really good idea and I also thought of it as well is there needs to be a locking system. It takes so long to raise a skill to 100 and it really sucks if that skill drops .1 because you fished for 10 minutes or something. I think they need to implement a locking system on skills. Or also be able to set which skills you want to decrease or increase as well. They have a similar system in UO and it works great. To put 600+ hours into something and then have it drop is just not cool at all.

[MrDDT]

@aliksteel:

I have nothing against specialization, but not so! You can ONE Skill on 100 per categorie. What can be done even if one is skill per catecory at 100? Leveling a other Skill... and destroyed the 100 Point Skill. No! What do you do ingame? Twiddle my thumbs? Or PvP? PvP is ingame death! Or Hunting? No, Hunting destroyed the one 100 Point Ressources Skill. Or Terrafroming for the Tribe Buildproject? No, Terraforming destroyed the one 100 Point Ressources Skill.

So what can be doing Ingame?



Why do you think you can only have 100 skill? Did I miss something in the patch?

About you able to change your stats or not. You havnt even seen the stats for crafting yet. These are just the gathering stats. Also because you can have more than 1 stat at max, its impossible for you to say you will only be good at one thing.

About you able to change or gain stats. Its much faster now. Plus they are adding in, each time you gain an exp level you will have a chance to move stats around.

Fyrex, I believe that was Drevar or something as I'm not a fan of the locking skill system. However, after messing around with test server for about 4 hours last night. I believe it might be the best route to go. But doing this would also make it a hardcap and not a soft cap.

I agree there is a balancing problem with how skills are dropping.

IMO they need to be stack ranked. Meaning if I have a skill thats 100, dropping it to 99.9 should take another skill going from 15 to 35, because going from 15.0 to 15.1 and having your 100 skill drop is not funny.

[Dzarren]

This sounds like how they do it in Mortal Online, not sure if its the same till i see it live.
But if it is limiting the homesteader its -1 subscriber, was hoping this game wouldnt limit the lone wanderer :(.

[MrDDT]

This sounds like how they do it in Mortal Online, not sure if its the same till i see it live.
But if it is limiting the homesteader its -1 subscriber, was hoping this game wouldnt limit the lone wanderer :(.

This system isnt really a matter of a homesteader or not. Its more about is someone able to change into what they want? Is someone able to be the best at everything? and balancing the changes of effort of skills/stats vs other skills/stats.

I'm of the opinion that if you want to be jack of all trades, you should be the master of none. Meaning if you want to use every skill in a skill pool often, then none of them will be 100, they will all be around 50. If you want to focus you skills in a skill pool, then you should have 20% at 100%, and 80% at 20%. Which would mean if there is 15 skills in skill pool like crafting you could max out 3 crafts to 100, and the other 12 skills would be at 20 skill.

[Dzarren]

i so disagree with you DDT, in real life i know poeple who are specialist at something but still are very good at related stuff.
But now only introduce mounts and bows and we have an second Mortal Online, wel done another game destroyed :(

[MrDDT]

i so disagree with you DDT, in real life i know poeple who are specialist at something but still are very good at related stuff.
But now only introduce mounts and bows and we have an second Mortal Online, wel done another game destroyed :(

This isnt real life. This is a game and it should be balanced as a game.

If we were talking about real life many of the players couldnt live in this game and would die. Also in real life you do die and dont respawn at a totem.

I'm not saying that the game shouldnt try to be sorta like real life, but when it inhibits fun play, and a working game. Yes it shouldnt apply.

Its like scavenging in an area in real life, you wouldnt pull out all this stuff from a junk pile like you can. It would deplete the pile.
If I run around the whole map killing every animal in game do you think then Xsyon shouldnt have any animals?
There are limits to where real life in game isnt good for the game.

[thunXa]

Yepp they just need to find the right codes for that i guess.
So for everyones understanding what im saying is;

Example1 :
2 Skills within a pool, one at 30 (Skill A), one at 100 (Skill B).

Skill B needed 80 actions to get from 99.9 to 100
Skill A needed 4 actions to get from 29.9 to 30


You grind Skill A from 30 to 32 within 80 actions.
Skill B then going down to 99.9


Example2:

10 skills within a pool.
---------------------------------
A = 100 (80 actions per 0.1 skill)
B = 99 (60 actions)
C = 98 (40 actions)
D = 97 (30 actions)
E = 96 (25 actions)
F = 50 (5 actions)
G= 50 ""
H = 50 ""
I = 50 ""
J = 50 ""
-------------------------------------

Grinding Skill F (50) for 880 actions.
Skill F is now up to 67.6
Highest Skill A (100) moved down to 98.9

(I know needed actions change during Skill F in that part, but just keep it an example)
-----------------------------------


Grinding Skill G (50) for 660 actions.
Skill G is now up to 63.2
Highest Skill B (99) moved down to 97.9.
---------------------------------------------

New pool:

A = 98.9 (40 actions per 0.1 skill)
B = 97.9 (30 actions)
C = 98 (40 actions)
D = 97 (30 actions)
E = 96 (25 actions)
F = 67.6 (7 actions)
G= 63.2 (7 actions)
H = 50 (5 actions)
I = 50 ""
J = 50 ""
-------------------------------------------




Set it by actions (i will call this anyones progress to keep it fair), not the actual skill level and the penalty wont be that hard.

There might be issues and alot of rework with the allready created chars vs new chars..


But i think this way would be the best one for specilazations.

[MrDDT]

Yep something like this, also with people like me who have 100 in all the stills, I would loss some of the skills somehow, not sure how to work that into it.

[thunXa]

Might be works with the actual action limits.

1 Skill at 100 took lets say 5000 actions.
10 Skill at 100 took in that case 50000 actions.

So you have however they want to change it a total action cap at every pool based on the number of skills available there

[MrDDT]

Might be works with the actual action limits.

1 Skill at 100 took lets say 5000 actions.
10 Skill at 100 took in that case 50000 actions.

So you have however they want to change it a total action cap at every pool based on the number of skills available there

Right, but what I dont want to see is what we have on the test server now.

I train up .1 in a skill and ALL my other skills drop by .1. That's not going to work.
Also they need to fix the skills so that the most active skill used in the last few days should be the last to drop, not just the last skill used.

If Ive been cutting logs for 30 hours straight, then I go make a saw, I scav for an 1/2 an hour to find some small metal plates, then go make a craft knife. I shouldnt lose logging skill. There wasnt much done between those jack up my logging skill training.

It should say, ok he was doing 10000 actions of logging, 2 toolcrafting actions, and 500 scavenging actions. Toolcrafting shouldnt go up at all when making the tool even though it was the last action.

[thunXa]

Im sure this is not going to happen what they actually have on the test server
Taking a single action and loosing another one 1-1 is fine, but not 100-1, i aggree with that, who doesnt?:)

[BuckRogers]

@thunXa: I have test today and have making foarging from 25 to 30 = 5 Points (ca. 15 Action) and simultaneously scavegning (100) lost 2,8 points to 98,2 (and not only this skill lost many points (Points in the other Skills 60-90)). And i make 15 Action for scavenging and still on 98,2. So your reckoning does not work. This lostrate ist horrible!

@MrDDT: What if there will be a Part 2 in the skillrevision? Craftingsskillsrevison? More specialization fragmentation, just what the players are missing!

Why can now stand on the resources at each other stats? Why can not determine Stats 2-3, which are responsible for resource?

And if that is so, the new stats assignment. Does every Char may all his newly dispense statspoint!

And do not come with specialization is good. Now you need 7 (dirt not including/terraforming) players to farm every resource optimally. Show me the Tribes have enough active players (and no IS, you have massive second/third etc Accounts per player). The mass is Homesteader (one Player) and this change is to break the neck of homesteader.

Example for Homesteader: he has Scavenging on 100 and hungry -> fishing ruined the Scavenging skill order to satisfy his hunger.

And anyone who thinks ressources trade is the panacea for this. No way! Ressources too heavy in weight and the distances too great ingame.

And terraforming is not purely resource! It remains, it is the dead for great tribe earthworks for construction projects.

The game simply does not have enough players and will in the foreseeable future are not enough players, to cope with this specialization fragmentation.

[thunXa]

My idea is not on the test server.. just an idea/suggestion how to fix/improve it.

With my suggestion people must still specialize but not as hard as it is on the test server right now.

[NorCalGooey]

For anyone who has forgot... test server is set to 25x skil change right now!

So yeah it wouldn't take one action to lose from 100 to 99.9. However, there still is the issue of the skill loss coming from the highest skill in the pool, not the lowest.

[thunXa]

I know it has this speed.

But with this.. try to make a skill from 90 to 100 and you will see whats wrong :)
It will be a mess of months/years to have more then 1 skill at your master (for someone who has not 100 yet).

You might dont see it because you have alot of 100s.

[Drevar]

The cap is not so low that you can't have multiple 100s before you start rebalancing skills. It depends on how many skills are in a group, probably something like 60 or 65 points per skill. Pretty sure the cap on the Actions group is 100 in all skills (4).

Nothing was mentioned about a global cap. So say you want to put nothing into combat and go full out on crafting, I don't think thats feasible at all as you will constantly be fighting the decay within the same group. There should be some way to "shift" the balance of unused points from another unused group.

As it is set up now, I will simply grind on my maxxed skills for xp and stat gain and use the SP gained by leveling to improve my non-100 skills.

The more I see how it works, the more I am for a simple, known, hard cap on skills and stats, like UO. There you know you have 700 points to play with and 225 in stats. Veteran rewards allow you to go beyond those caps, 20 points over cap per year being active and +5 stats per year.

*edit* In addition, it doesn't help that the skill and stat windows don't update correctly on a change, so when you gain or lose you don't realize that you have lost something you may want to keep.

[znaiika]

I don't know where to say this, since you discussing test changes in here, I as well going to point some points out.
Durability bonus work fine, speed bonus don't work, but there is something funny about Agility, when switched to combat mode, all of a sudden Agility jumps to 100 last for some time and then go back to what it was.
Well done with schemes, but for trading purposes, make "artisan and master schemes" scavenged only not through learning.
When traveling long distances you loose sight of trees and structures, even though you know they exist, after re-logging all go to normal.

[MrDDT]

I don't know where to say this, since you discussing test changes in here, I as well going to point some points out.
Durability bonus work fine, speed bonus don't work, but there is something funny about Agility, when switched to combat mode, all of a sudden Agility jumps to 100 last for some time and then go back to what it was.
Well done with schemes, but for trading purposes, make "artisan and master schemes" scavenged only not through learning.
When traveling long distances you loose sight of trees and structures, even though you know they exist, after re-logging all go to normal.


You sure durability bonus is working? I didnt see it working. How did you test this?

Added after 7 minutes:


@thunXa: I have test today and have making foarging from 25 to 30 = 5 Points (ca. 15 Action) and simultaneously scavegning (100) lost 2,8 points to 98,2 (and not only this skill (Points in the Skills 60-90)). And i make 15 Action for scavenging and still on 98,5. So your reckoning does not work. This lostrate ist horrible!

BuckRogers, Thunxa I believe was saying it was bad and likely wont be put into the game like that without being changed.




@MrDDT: What if there will be a Part 2 in the skillrevision? Craftingsskillsrevison? More specialization fragmentation, just what the players are missing!

I would love a system like this if I understand what you are saying, where they add more specializations. I think it can also work with a skill pool like they have planned, so I dont think you have to have 1 with out the other. I think they can work together or they can work apart.




Why can now stand on the resources at each other stats? Why can not determine Stats 2-3, which are responsible for resource?

I dont know what this means, can you clear this up a bit? Or further explain?




And if that is so, the new stats assignment. Does every Char may all his newly dispense statspoint!

I agree this could be a problem for new players, but dont forget, new players skilling up skills can change their stats very fast under this system as you get more stats when you are gaining skills. Plus each level up, you will get a chance to change stats.

If they are extremely new, they can also reroll without much loss of skills, again dont forget skills will level faster in this new system.

Vets wanting to change stats is going to more of a problem as they dont have the option to reroll and they wont get as much exp level ups as new unskilled players. However, I believe he is adding a system where they do get some stat adjustment points based on their current XP level.



And do not come with specialization is good. Now you need 7 (dirt not including/terraforming) players to farm every resource optimally. Show me the Tribes have enough active players (and no IS, you have massive second/third etc Accounts per player). The mass is Homesteader (one Player) and this change is to break the neck of homesteader.

Good question and here is the answer for that.

1)Trade.
2)Accept you wont be getting the best of the best items.
3)Get people to join you that do skills/resources that you dont do.

Right now there is a major problem in game that people dont need or want anyone else to do anything. This hurts trade and tribes greatly. As a solo player do you expect to do everything best in the game? I dont think that's what people should expect.
Under this new system if you are a solo player and you want high QL stuff of everything, you will need to trade. But guess what? People will now want the items you have as they wont be able to get it themselves.

So say you are good at scavenging, hunting, toolcrafting, and woodcrafting. This means you would want high CHA, PER, DEX, and AGI. Which is doable not really a problem. If you wanted someone to do say weaponcrafting or leathercrafting, they would want your scav'd items and your leather from hunting skill, because they dont have the stats to get those items in high QL. This will make your items valued and able to trade for their now valued items. Not even counting your tools they would surely want.



Example for Homesteader: he has Scavenging on 100 and hungry -> fishing ruined the Scavenging skill order to satisfy his hunger.

Sounds like you should be trading your scav'd items for fish. Or the system is not working very well if a few fish from fishing messes up your scav skills/stats. This is part of the current problem on test.



And anyone who thinks ressources trade is the panacea for this. No way! Ressources too heavy in weight and the distances too great ingame.

Again these is a problem with trade, and weight system which is being effected in this trade. Energy, and weight need to be improved, plus more modes of travel. I fully agree with this being a problem. However, it will also make your heavy resources more valued if people want them at higher QL.

I think weight on carts needs to be looked at greatly, I think energy regen and use needs to be fixed up greatly, I think roads need to have a much much larger effect, and mounts and other modes of travel need to be put into the game.



And terraforming is not purely resource! It remains, it is the dead for great tribe earthworks for construction projects.

Not sure what this means, but it is a resource however I think its under used in game resource too. No one cares about the QL of dirt. However, with farming this could greatly change needing better dirt. Also I was talking to my friends and maybe even have like a treasure hunting or finding option in game.



The game simply does not have enough players and will in the foreseeable future are not enough players, to cope with this specialization fragmentation.

100% disagree, I think the reason why this game has few players is because there is no drive to need them in the game. People join my tribe and ask "What can I do" and we said "Just do whatever you like, we dont need really anything we can do everything" this is a major problem.
If people were needed as Ive seen in other games they tend to play more, and feel better about being part of a group, or making money or a name for themselves outside of tribes.

[Ighox]

My main problem with a cap at this point is that basically the only thing to do in-game right now is to skill up stuff, and after the patch you'll have to focus on skilling up less stuff which sort of means less content.
(Adds some content for people with max in everything though because people might actually trade some more.)
I know that people that are maxed in everything sits around lacking stuff to do and some even have maxed alts because there isn't much to do other than skilling up everything and building stuff.

Now, don't get me wrong; I think a soft-cap is definitely needed for a good sandbox, but Xsyon isn't there yet.
Currently we have a crafting/building game and not a real sandbox, I think this cap would be fantastic whenever Xsyon transforms into a real sandbox, just not now while it's still a crafting/building game.

(By "real sandbox" I mean Xsyon after the patch(es) that introduce territory control and changes to make armor matter more.)

[znaiika]

You sure durability bonus is working? I didnt see it working. How did you test this?



My armor has speed and durability bonuses on both current server and test server, on current server I get tired real fast but on test server I can run much further without resting, water and food has greater impact on energy now.
I think it has to do with maximum status, if you have statues less then 100 then bonuses work.

[MrDDT]

My armor has speed and durability bonuses on both current server and test server, on current server I get tired real fast but on test server I can run much further without resting, water and food has greater impact on energy now.
I think it has to do with maximum status, if you have statues less then 100 then bonuses work.

Just because it displays "durability" bonus on items doesnt mean its working. On live server it displays a lot of bonuses that are not working.

Durability has no effect on how long you can run.
Speed doesnt effect how fast you move on test or live.

Yes food has more impact I believe on test.

[znaiika]

Just because it displays "durability" bonus on items doesnt mean its working. On live server it displays a lot of bonuses that are not working.

Durability has no effect on how long you can run.
Speed doesnt effect how fast you move on test or live.

Yes food has more impact I believe on test.

Then why on test server I can run much further without need to rest as often?
Is it bugged on current live server?

[MrDDT]

Then why on test server I can run much further without need to rest as often?
Is it bugged on current live server?


Its in the patch notes. Movement speed was increased, both basic and max cap.

[znaiika]

Its in the patch notes. Movement speed was increased, both basic and max cap.

Just curious, would we still have those bonuses working sometimes in the future? or we wont have bonuses working at all?

[MrDDT]

Just curious, would we still have those bonuses working sometimes in the future? or we wont have bonuses working at all?

This is what is planned, what goes on live later is up to what happens in their testing. I would expect because nothing was said to say that this change was broken or people didnt like it that it would goto live once the patch is ready in other ways.
They increased the base movement speed, and the max movement speed cap for a reason.

[znaiika]

This is what is planned, what goes on live later is up to what happens in their testing. I would expect because nothing was said to say that this change was broken or people didnt like it that it would goto live once the patch is ready in other ways.
They increased the base movement speed, and the max movement speed cap for a reason.

Over all looks good.

[thunXa]

They also fixed the weight, this is why you can run moch longer distances.

[joexxxz]

I think the point is to make the cap unreachable. Ok so say the cap is at 150, but giong from 140-150 would take 500 hours game play of grinding the same stat. So it's basically no cap, but those who want to reach the cap can do so if they desire spending 20 days of their life (24 hours x 20 days) to max it out. I just like leaving that option open to people who REALLY enjoy specializing.

The system we have now is 0.1 stat change is the same length of time required at 10 in a stat as over 100 in a stat. I just hope they make a "soft cap" so to speak with stats too. IMO the cap on gaining stats should be when you can no longer lose any more stat points as well.

You bringing the WOW approach. Dont like that. Thats why I dont play that game :)

[Deacon]

One of my biggest fears is, I'll do something simple, earn a point in that, and lose a skill/stat I've taken weeks if not months to raise....it should take as long to drop in a skill or stat as you took to earn it...like way longer at the high end, and less at low....but not sure how that could be balanced


EDIT: example....I'm skining an animal with my knife, when I'm attacked by another animal....so I defend myself with knife(I've not completely healed from previous fight and dont have time to open windows and drag axe to hand)....go from 5 to 6 in knife fighting, and go from 94 to 93 in axes.....and when skill loss on death is added, lose even more from axe skill, if I die.

[MrDDT]

One of my biggest fears is, I'll do something simple, earn a point in that, and lose a skill/stat I've taken weeks if not months to raise....it should take as long to drop in a skill or stat as you took to earn it...like way longer at the high end, and less at low....but not sure how that could be balanced


EDIT: example....I'm skining an animal with my knife, when I'm attacked by another animal....so I defend myself with knife(I've not completely healed from previous fight and dont have time to open windows and drag axe to hand)....go from 5 to 6 in knife fighting, and go from 94 to 93 in axes.....and when skill loss on death is added, lose even more from axe skill, if I die.


Yes, this is why I think it should be based on actions and it seems like others agree.

From 99 to 100 its like 10000 attacks with an axe to get that point in axes. But from 5 to 6 in blades it only takes say 10 actions. This shouldnt cause axes to drop from 100 to 99, because you did 10 actions in blades.

[Dakeen]

This kind of change is sounding a lot like Darkfall months of grinding to catch up. Although there would be a end, unlike Darkfall. If your grinding you not having fun. No if your going to make it take months and months to advance it has to be in a fun way. Not just a grind.

[MrDDT]

This kind of change is sounding a lot like Darkfall months of grinding to catch up. Although there would be a end, unlike Darkfall. If your grinding you not having fun. No if your going to make it take months and months to advance it has to be in a fun way. Not just a grind.

Huh? How does it sound like its going to take months and months to advance because of how you lose skills on the test server or just that it takes 10000 actions to go from 99 to 100? Because currently that's what it takes now. The # of actions to 99 to 100 wouldnt really change per say in the new play, it does but I'm not clear how you getting to that theory.

[Dakeen]

Oh I some how missed the other pages, thought i was commenting on moving the stat cap to 140 or 150. 100 is enough.

[MrDDT]

Oh I some how missed the other pages, thought i was commenting on moving the stat cap to 140 or 150. 100 is enough.

You can get under the new system 100 stats in a week. I believe that's too fast.

[Dakeen]

It might be, but an important aspect of any open pvp game is to not make new players completely suffer at the hands of veteran players. Being new myself I don't know how big of a impact going from 90 to 100 strength makes. What I do know is not having the information that Dexterity and Perception actually affects the quality of my toolcraft, and not just the speed at which you learn it, like the manual says. Really bites. Combine that with only gaining .7 dexterity and 1.6 perception after 2 weeks, it could be over a year before I hit 100 from 75. I have considered re rolling but with these changes coming I still don't know. Even from 90 to 100 sounds like it takes far to long especially if it starts to slow down after 90. For me .3 a week equals something like 28 weeks, roughly 7 months.

I could say OK for maybe a month or two for 90-100, longer than that is extremely excessive in my opinion.

[MrDDT]

It might be, but an important aspect of any open pvp game is to not make new players completely suffer at the hands of veteran players. Being new myself I don't know how big of a impact going from 90 to 100 strength makes. What I do know is not having the information that Dexterity and Perception actually affects the quality of my toolcraft, and not just the speed at which you learn it, like the manual says. Really bites. Combine that with only gaining .7 dexterity and 1.6 perception after 2 weeks, it could be over a year before I hit 100 from 75. I have considered re rolling but with these changes coming I still don't know. Even from 90 to 100 sounds like it takes far to long especially if it starts to slow down after 90. For me .3 a week equals something like 28 weeks, roughly 7 months.

I could say OK for maybe a month or two for 90-100, longer than that is extremely excessive in my opinion.


The new stat change system here, stats are much faster. Gaining 10 points as a new player will take about a week of playing a few hours a day at that craft, maybe even faster. Stats are a lot more fluid with this change, in both gaining and losing stats.

You can test it out on the test server.
I gained about 4 points of Fort in about 30mins on the test server. Test server is 25x faster right now (this is at max terraforming, at lower terraforming it would be even faster)
4/30 = .1333 points per min on test. Now .1333 / 25 = .00533 points per min on live after change. 10 points = 1876.2 mins = 31.2 hours = 4.47 hours per day for a full week to get 10 points at max terraforming. Which also if I started at 5 terraforming would be even faster.

I dont want to slow the decay of how fast stats change. I want to change the specialty of how people focus.

10 points isnt much choice out of 100. Its 10%. I want to see people that are combat types or crafting types have a choice. Moving the cap to something like 140ish would allow people 50 points of change which is something like 36%, on top of that it will limit down the choices they cant go. When you count the fact you need 2 stats per skill this will be used to allow people to specialize.
While still allowing everyone to be everything but not at the best level.

Using this system if you wanted to be a solo guy doing everything but not at a high QL or bonus level.

[Dakeen]

I don't see a point, in another thread you said you can make supreme weapons with 40 some skills and low Dex. If it's possible to do that why worry about it? In my opinion that needs to go away. I have never seen the point in a Massively Multiplayer Oniline Game that you can do everything in the game half decent even, might as well be single player with a chat room. If you want to be a jack of all trades so be it, but you should never ever be able to match someone who is focused in a craft or skill, not even close.

Addition note, as far as they have said those are not solid values. They will tweak them as needed. So it may not end up being that fast.

[MrDDT]

I agree, I think having people with 40 skill making the best weapons in the game is absurd.