PDA

View Full Version : Feedback Request: Creatures/Revenants 2012-07-13



Xsyon
07-13-2012, 08:31 AM
Please provide any feedback on the current state of creatures and revenants on the Main Server here.

We will work further on attack ranges this week. The distance of an attack now displays as part of the combat messages. The actual ranges seem correct from our testing, but these may visually be affected by ping rates to our server for moving players. Please report any attack ranges that seem incorrect.

Thanks!

wamfab
07-13-2012, 10:49 AM
Creatures are still on one place sometimes, 10 Hamsters attacked me and some still where running around.
I know you have changed some things and the creatures are staying in one part of a zone but please let some of them move if the amount is to big in that zone.
Have you also thought about to set a max of creatures in a zone? Some zones have not many hunters.

Also i think that a hamster must be afraid of me/us and not attack me. There must be made/change some rules for behavior of the creatures.

One edit...Animals go still through walls , doors ect.Think you are safe insite your camp surrounded whit walls? The answer is no...

Snakepit
07-14-2012, 01:04 AM
they look realy nice and i am happy to see they revenants ingame now. Keep the progress going.

unclean666
07-14-2012, 06:08 AM
cant skin them or even see the stat bonus on there gear and have to check each one and its a pain in the ....;.but it dont really matter because the stat bonus change isent good at all and need redone another way then what was done.Im all for a balance on the bonus armor but high end 3 plus points?....come on now thats not even worth all the time and effort it take to make a full high end suit its just silly the amout of time put in compared to the pay off with changes and it ruined one of the only things left for me to do that was fun. Back to the revs...if we cant skin them and there armor isent any good then why am I even killing them? To loot bins that I care nothing about?.....if theres no real reason to kill them then they might as well all just be hamsters because it just dont matter.

Motlee
07-14-2012, 07:13 AM
I know this is probably going to come off as whining to some, but that's not my intention.
I've been on and off playing since launch, and I admit I never gave much time to combat practice. I log on today to check things out, two revs sprint at me, kill me within 2 seconds and make off with everything except my knee pads. Very useful if they understood begging for mercy. ;P
It just makes me wonder about new players to the game when, hopefully, there are some. Are they going to log on and be instantly killed? Repeatedly? That might put a few people off.

unclean666
07-14-2012, 07:19 AM
Motlee i understand what your saying but you have no idea how many time i try and tell the new people if there getting killed they need to A.join a tribe for protection B.train up combat and trade for good gear but they never do they just keep going on and on about how its BS they get killed.And tbh animals and revs have been made so easy us vets yawn while we kill them heck it takes 8 plus revs to even get me a lil in trouble and thats even after the stat nerf.Its really not that hard to train up and not long to do it so if they dont want to put in a lil time then oh well its there problem.

We had a tribe member Dingse who was a new player and within 2 weeks maybe 3 dude was giving me a launch vet problems and was coming close to getting me sometimes......they just dont do it and its one thing i never understood

Motley
07-14-2012, 03:50 PM
Oh I understand the need to train combat skills and all. This is not a 'jump right in and try stuff out for yourself' type of game anymore. I never trained combat because I didn't have to, and because I played so infrequently building a wall was the highlight of my day. lol Now I have to, or quit I suppose.



Like I said before, all this does is add yet another way that newbies rely heavily on veterans. This is not a theme that should be present in an apocalyptic survival sandbox.

This thought crossed my mind, though I won't agree that it should never be present. Finding people to teach you how to survive would, realistically, be part of an actual apocalypse. However, it does reduce the number of styles of game-play you could previously take part it. Can a new player start out on their own and make it on their own? Probably not at this point. And, due to the small population, whatever veterans are willing and available for 'noob-support' could become gods in short order if they so choose. ;)

ETA -- This type of discussion probably doesn't belong in the patch opinions thread. Sorry!

lordadamar
07-14-2012, 05:28 PM
Rev AI is crap, rabid small animals back attacking in hoards...

I have a Dead Tribe I can see in the distance from my area, theres a single Rev over there. I can watch it agro me from a 20 second walk away, Mind It agro's me standing in my tribe behind walls through trees... IT does not stay on its Tribe area or totem. I watch it patrol my Tribe area unprovoked...

IT also runs completely around my tribe to find a near vertical dirt wall to run up and beats me standing at my totem... When I say near vertical its 2 1/2 stories tall dirt wall...

I walk out the side of my tribe in view of this other tribe, still on my tribal lands and it takes off running at me. IT IS NOT CLOSE IN THE SLIGHTEST I can set a stop watch at 15 -20 seconds before he gets to me...

Even if I walk into my tribe and shut the gates he paths through the recently shut gate and beats on me...

If they are dead tribe associated they should be leashed to the Dead Tribes borders unless attacked plain and simple...

KeithStone
07-14-2012, 07:04 PM
If they are dead tribe associated they should be leashed to the Dead Tribes borders unless attacked plain and simple...

I agree with this, would solve a lot of "new players" problems.

GuideRaguel
07-15-2012, 10:09 AM
Please keep this thread to detailed Feedback only.
No discussions are required.

The previous posts that were discussions have been moved here... http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/8436-Discussion-Regarding-Creature-AI?p=96481#post96481

Thank you.

Crokus
07-15-2012, 01:22 PM
Revs hit me for 6 - 8 per attack. Squirrels, cats and dogs hit me for 8 - 11 per attack and it seems like they hit quicker.

I hit revs into the high 13's per attack and cap out at 11.09 per attack for cats.

Is this working as intended?

MrDDT
07-15-2012, 01:36 PM
Revs hit me for 6 - 8 per attack. Squirrels, cats and dogs hit me for 8 - 11 per attack and it seems like they hit quicker.

I hit revs into the high 13's per attack and cap out at 11.09 per attack for cats.

Is this working as intended?


Zombies range greatly in str.
They are unarmed, naked and you getting hit for 6 to 8, and hitting them for 13's

Wait until a Zombie has a weapon hitting you for 40 damage, and you hit for 2 damage and they have 220HP.

Donar
07-15-2012, 08:40 PM
I think they are working well. They increase in difficulty very quickly with gear and weapons, but at this current point its very fun (Especially when they are geared). Its something I'll have to watch as they progress.

Range: I'm not seeing any issue with range. This could also be because of my height (not sure if it impacts range).

Invisible: there is an issue with invisible zombies. I'm not sure what impacts this and it is also not common. A quick reload of the game fixes it.

(due to my skills I started zombies naked and only wear zombie stuff to make it more difficult)

fatboy21007
07-15-2012, 11:21 PM
i gotta say, they are tough, like to gang up on ya, give neat gear, I Likem! since i got so many little totems around me, my area is swarming XD Now i just hope some would carry packs with super rare items and schemes.

djkurrle
07-16-2012, 02:54 AM
I have a problem. Zombies are running through my walls. they took 3 hours with 3 ppl to make. rebuilding/tearing down is not an option plz help to fix my problem. -mejia Banditos.

RTMoep
07-16-2012, 06:58 AM
Those revenants are far to tough if you ask me. I started some days ago, before the what I call "zombie apocalypse" started. We're only three people in our tribe and it's almost impossible to even kill one of them (I'm talking about naked revenants here, which supposedly haven't killed other players before us). One of them even chased us into our own tribe, we were able to beat him after we've practised our weapon skills for hours.

So what I'm saying is: They're far too tough for newbies.

On the plus side we've got some nice equipment from those abandoned tribes, especially saws which are impossible to get otherwise. But still those revs are annoying and if there are more than one at a time there's no way to beat them.

lordadamar
07-16-2012, 07:13 AM
I have a problem. Zombies are running through my walls. they took 3 hours with 3 ppl to make. rebuilding/tearing down is not an option plz help to fix my problem. -mejia Banditos.

I have the same problem, there is no way one can get in...

Tribal areas to no cross.

No gaps in walls

But occasionally I will watch him walk through the gate, when its closed...

I have walls surrounding me ( Scavenger board walls ) no gaps, But I can watch this Rev agro me through the walls, and sometimes run around my tribe looking for an open door or just talk right through it if it isnt....

////////////////////////////////////

This is not me complaining about a hard mob, The AI and pathing used for these mobs is extremely questionable.

1. Distance for agro is giant its literally a tribe and a halfs distance.
2. They agro without LOS. ( Line of Sight ) Trees, buildings, walls blocking LOS do not matter...
3. When they do agro its like they run up to your walls and run straight at them till server desync happens and they glitch through..
4. They encroach on Tribal Lands without being provoked, ( I have one the nonchalantly walks in my gate doent attack and takes a nap at my Totem ) WTF are you serious
5. They are chasing you nearly half a zones distance, still hitting and running with no endurance. Really come on..
6. Ok I get the stronger thing, but original one Spawn @ 150hp / raped a few people died @ 192hp fully geared / Respawn at 196 hp no gear to speak of and is over 205 hp now... At this rate 23% ish growth in stats he will be unbeatable before long then what.

Sit down with him next to my camp fire at my Totem. say make it quick...

Wharmaster
07-16-2012, 07:52 AM
Feedback Request: Abandonment Phase Patch
Hello Survivors!

We would love to hear your thoughts on the latest patch excluding creature AI.

What are your thoughts on the Revenants and abandoned totems?
And give us your general thoughts on the overall patch.
The full patch notes can be found here...

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthrea...ll=1#post96407

Thank you.

Ok...here we go.

It sounded good on paper....but in reality it just isn't fun. I find myself not wanting to log in anymore.

I started about a month ago. I had been searching for a game that would let me do the following things: Find a spot in the middle of nowhere, and live there. Build a home, hunt, fish, make my own gear, and "live" off the land. Xsyon fit the bill perfectly, and was the only game out there that did.

Now I can't leave my little homestead without worrying about some overpowered "zombie" chasing me all over the map. I can't kill these things, even with pretty decent leather armor and fairly decent weapons, with mid-range HP and combat skills. I have to be standing right on top of them to hit them, and they can hit me from a greater range, and with far more frequency.

So, I could join a tribe, yes. But that kind of defeats the whole reason of why I played this game to begin with. The freedom and peaceful aspect of the game is completely gone.

Aren't there enough zombie survival games out there already? But there was only one Xsyon.

Maybe a better idea would have been to have weaker revenants, with no loot drops, who do NOT get exponentially more powerful at totem areas, and maybe have wandering "boss" style revenants for the vets or groups of players to hunt and kill, with good crafting mats and gear drops.

But as it is I find myself staring at my monitor, wanting to play but not wanting to deal with this revenant crap.

joexxxz
07-16-2012, 08:56 AM
They are not that hard. Maybe just a little.

zoria
07-16-2012, 09:02 AM
Ok...here we go.

It sounded good on paper....but in reality it just isn't fun. I find myself not wanting to log in anymore.

I started about a month ago. I had been searching for a game that would let me do the following things: Find a spot in the middle of nowhere, and live there. Build a home, hunt, fish, make my own gear, and "live" off the land. Xsyon fit the bill perfectly, and was the only game out there that did.

Now I can't leave my little homestead without worrying about some overpowered "zombie" chasing me all over the map. I can't kill these things, even with pretty decent leather armor and fairly decent weapons, with mid-range HP and combat skills. I have to be standing right on top of them to hit them, and they can hit me from a greater range, and with far more frequency.

So, I could join a tribe, yes. But that kind of defeats the whole reason of why I played this game to begin with. The freedom and peaceful aspect of the game is completely gone.

Aren't there enough zombie survival games out there already? But there was only one Xsyon.

Maybe a better idea would have been to have weaker revenants, with no loot drops, who do NOT get exponentially more powerful at totem areas, and maybe have wandering "boss" style revenants for the vets or groups of players to hunt and kill, with good crafting mats and gear drops.

But as it is I find myself staring at my monitor, wanting to play but not wanting to deal with this revenant crap.

In addition to what joexxxz said I would like to state that the amount of revs currently out there is only temporarily. In a couple of weeks, tribe totems will be removed, lands will be claimed and zombies will disappear for the largest part. I have to agree that not being able to 'go out' anymore is clearly not where revenants were intended for.

MrDDT
07-16-2012, 12:50 PM
I have the same problem, there is no way one can get in...

Tribal areas to no cross.

No gaps in walls

But occasionally I will watch him walk through the gate, when its closed...

I have walls surrounding me ( Scavenger board walls ) no gaps, But I can watch this Rev agro me through the walls, and sometimes run around my tribe looking for an open door or just talk right through it if it isnt....

////////////////////////////////////

This is not me complaining about a hard mob, The AI and pathing used for these mobs is extremely questionable.

1. Distance for agro is giant its literally a tribe and a halfs distance.
2. They agro without LOS. ( Line of Sight ) Trees, buildings, walls blocking LOS do not matter...
3. When they do agro its like they run up to your walls and run straight at them till server desync happens and they glitch through..
4. They encroach on Tribal Lands without being provoked, ( I have one the nonchalantly walks in my gate doent attack and takes a nap at my Totem ) WTF are you serious
5. They are chasing you nearly half a zones distance, still hitting and running with no endurance. Really come on..
6. Ok I get the stronger thing, but original one Spawn @ 150hp / raped a few people died @ 192hp fully geared / Respawn at 196 hp no gear to speak of and is over 205 hp now... At this rate 23% ish growth in stats he will be unbeatable before long then what.

Sit down with him next to my camp fire at my Totem. say make it quick...

1) Distance is low for me. I see no problem with them aggroing from 50m or more away.
2) I think this is ok also because you can consider sound also. Not really all that important, and it adds to the game to me.
3) Glitching through the walls Ive not seen yet, but that is a major issue.
4) I dont have a problem with them wondering around the world a bit, I'm glad they do.
5) I've not had a problem with this as if you open the gap a little (5 to 10m) they will stop following. The no endurance has been an issue with all animals.
6) What you consider "Unbeatable" is not really true at all. I love that they grow stronger. My problem is still they are everywhere, so new players like yourself have to deal with the same ones as vets like me. I dont know where they are going to put the balancing marker, because right now they are very hard for new players like you, but very very easy for old players like me. So neither of us are getting the fun out of them.

Crokus
07-16-2012, 01:29 PM
The revs are a good challenge for me with my skill for Armed and Axe in the mid 30's. It requires me to have good timing, deft movements and use of the terrain to survive the difficult fights. I like it.

One thing I did notice though... I was killed by a packed a revs and watch one equip a few of my bone armor items. I ran back to reclaim my gear, but and the graphic of the armor was not visable on the rev anymore. I recovered the armor after I killed the rev.

Tesla
07-17-2012, 12:36 PM
Small critters should not be so aggressive. In packs, they can be very annoying, especially if you are low on health from fighting another animal or Revenant.

Xsyon
07-19-2012, 11:41 AM
So far here are issues:

1) Revenant aggro range and chasing
This has been reduced and chasing has been revised so that creatures including revenants will stop chasing based on time and distance from their home location. Is there any feedback on the current state of aggro ranges and chasing?

2) Revenants going through walls.
We investigated this and revenants were actually going over walls by using the terrain. If any of you have seen revenants directly going through walls please report it with a location.

3) Revenants going through gates.
This is possible if a revenant is chasing you at close range based on timing. This is because our pathfinding grid on the server (which includes open and closed gates) is on a 1 meter grid. To increase the resolution of this grid isn't practical. We are devising a better way to deal with gates. For now, if you close a gate with enough space between you and the chasing creature, they should be locked out.

4) Small creature aggression.
Please post more info here. What creatures seem too aggressive? Did they aggro on their own, or did they aggro after you attacked first. Currently rats are aggressive. Pine Martins and Marmots are neutral and other small creatures are non aggressive. However, if you attack first, they will attack you and their friends will join in. I believe this is what is happening as the smallest critters are set to very low aggression unless you attack. If you have seen the smallest creatures aggro unprovoked, please report it.

5) Revenant armor not displaying. I will look into this.

6) Invisible creatures. This was an old issue that was fixed, but we will again examine the code.

7) Line of Sight. This is in progress as we can't use our current pathfinding system with 1 meter resolution to prevent aggro based on blocked line of sight.

8) Creature damage. There are high level creatures (even small creatures) and low end revenants, so yes there can be some small creatures that do higher damage than revenants.

9) Creatures running up slopes. Currently creatures can walk up any terrain slopes. This was done to avoid problems with creatures getting stuck. This will be revised again in the future.

I think I covered the main points mentioned. If there is further new feedback, it is welcome. If I missed anything, please point it out as well. To sum up a few of these issues are being worked on currently, a few were resolved and a few require more testing and information.

Thanks!

MrDDT
07-19-2012, 12:57 PM
1) I believe the current range of aggro is fine, I believe the current chasing range is fine.
2) Never seen a Rev go through a wall, or over them infact.
3) Gates have been working fine for me in keeping Revs out.
4) Small animals (marmots, rats, squirrels, babies etc) attack me without me attacking them. They also aggressive from 20+meters away.
5) Rev armor is not displaying when they PICK up armor. Their own armor is displaying fine.
6) Ive been attacked by many invisible stuff since the patch. No idea what they were.
7) I dont see this as a problem. Animals and other things can use things like hearing or smell. I see no issue with that being the case in effect here.
8) I think some of the smaller animals need to be looked at for balance in damage. Even the largest marmot shouldnt be hitting for 10 points of damage to an armored target.
9) I believe this isnt a problem. Its a fix to a bug but rather have it like this than the other options we had.

Riverspirit
07-20-2012, 03:50 AM
I ran into invisible revenants. I relogged, and then I could see them.

numskull34
07-20-2012, 04:00 AM
So very new to this game but just noticing little things that seem odd. Rabbits, squirrels, and even hamsters are aggressive all the time, im sure this has been brought up before but when i see a rabbit the first thing i dont think of is to run, deer, racoons and bears yes. is this supposed to be this way and is there any plans to change the parts that just dont make sense in a game that is doing a great job of realism? ... an edit to this post as i read more in this discussion .... so i am wondering if it maybe that they start neutral someone attacks them could they then stay aggressive for the next victim to walk past?

joexxxz
07-20-2012, 10:45 AM
Plus i think the hamsters are to strong. they got like 80 HP, more than I do :(

Riverspirit
07-23-2012, 02:19 PM
Plus i think the hamsters are to strong. they got like 80 HP, more than I do :(
LOL, must be the green mist :p We saw a ragdoll with 130hp!

wamfab
07-27-2012, 08:53 AM
When the totem is gone, when will the revenants go away?
I put a totem on a old camp and still revenants are there, all of them.
Thought they will move on if somebody placed a totem on a deserted camp?

I heard some say that you must kill them first and then they will not come back....nice for new players who want to get a good place.

Willowhawk
07-27-2012, 10:08 AM
When the totem is gone, when will the revenants go away?
I put a totem on a old camp and still revenants are there, all of them.
Thought they will move on if somebody placed a totem on a deserted camp?

I heard some say that you must kill them first and then they will not come back....nice for new players who want to get a good place.

After the totem decays and a new totem is set the Revenants are suppose to move on. We did this last night. We cleared the Revenants but I won't know until after work tonight if they are actually gone. I will post results then or if I find out before tonight.

To the OP:

I went out last night to help clear some Revenants and to attempt to clear some animals as well that have been menacing this guy. What I found was the Revenants are fairly easy because you can run out of their range if you get in trouble. The problems I encountered was the packs of feral cats and some other small creatures. The creatures and especially the cats in this particular area have taken over. (which is actually fun and would be realistic IF these creatures had no natural predators) That is where I see the problem, these cats would be coyote food in real life. I was attacked by 168 hp cats which would be fine except there was 8 or 10 at a time from mid 50s hps to 160s.

On top of these there was some very large bears 300+ hps and the largest being 450hps, a couple Coyotes in the low 200s to 300s, several Deer some in the 300hps range, a couple giant racoons and I was attacked by two large Labs. All of these a stones throw distance from each other along with the Revenants around his tribe LOL. Now as fun as this was it's a bit unrealistic. I have no idea what the fix is other than we are going out Saturday as a hunting party to try and thin these down a bit since if there were more people this would likely not be a problem but just saying.

Another problem and a possible bug was the Pine Martins. I was attacked by two Pine Martins while fighting Revenants. Both of these Pine Martins had clear or empty health bars. This could have been a graphics bug on my end but the real problem was when I couldn't determine their health I decided to sprint away. I still had about 75% energy and ran for a very long time but the Pine Martin stayed on me the entire way and never let up. This is the first creatures I have not been able to outpace.

wamfab
07-27-2012, 11:29 AM
I placed the totem yesterday some 24 hours ago.
They are still there, im ingame right now.

48 hours further, they are still there.

Willowhawk
07-28-2012, 10:21 AM
I placed the totem yesterday some 24 hours ago.
They are still there, im ingame right now.

48 hours further, they are still there.
Sorry Wamfab, my internet went down yesterday and I still can't connect at the house so never got in game. Have you cleared all the Revenants since placing the Totem?

wamfab
07-28-2012, 10:36 AM
No, but i spoke to Deacon ingame, he will test that out.
It would also be nice if one of the guides give some clarity.....hint.....hint

Xsyon
07-28-2012, 11:06 AM
Hello Wamfab,

The revenants need to be killed to get rid of them. If they try to respawn on claimed land, they will find a new 'home'. I hope that helps and thanks for your feedback. I will consider setting it so that claiming land will make them find a new home without being killed, but the idea was that it would be a challege to claim these old lands and that new players would call on the aid of veterans.

wamfab
07-28-2012, 11:12 AM
Hello Wamfab,

The revenants need to be killed to get rid of them. If they try to respawn on claimed land, they will find a new 'home'. I hope that helps and thanks for your feedback. I will consider setting it so that claiming land will make them find a new home without being killed, but the idea was that it would be a challege to claim these old lands and that new players would call on the aid of veterans.

Hello,

Thanks for the answer.
The land is full whit old camps and its not fun for a new player to get around even.
Also the nice spots are all not reachable for new players whitout older players with fighting exp.
Is the playerbase so big and everywhere to do this?
I realy hope you set this first round on the setting you consider or even let them go away after a week or so.