WhassUP, now?

[Mactavendish]

I have been gone awhile, and decided to check the forums after getting a pm from a tribemate.

What I read so far is same old same old.

So abandoned totems have not been removed yet, revanants are supposedly too hard, resources are still way to abundant, and the population has dropped a good bit more, which will lead to even more abandoned totems and rev's running around.

So, my question is this...

( disclaimer: I already know its my choice, and I am not trying to irritate or dissuade anyone from playing nor pointing ANY fingers at ANYONE. )

Question: Why would I want to play this game in it's current state?

I am very interested in comments.

[Willowhawk]

Because we miss you :D

[tomduril]

* lots of creatures (at least near our tribe)
* Protect the tribe against the revenants
* Help others and together clear the deserted tribelands from the revenants
* create quests for other players to take on (also gives you xp points)
* help me remove some baskets in the tribe area that keep me from building :)

AND .... we miss you :)

[unclean666]

You played the game? I thought you just built random stuff on a hill with no reasoning for it and stomped away twice........oh wait thats 80% of the game and all the devs focused on for a year instead of doing what a lot of us said would give the game meaning and some fun.....but they worked on crap that people like you wanted like more building crap......oh well we have more ROOFS AND POST!!!!

[Mactavendish]

unclean...

whereas I like building it has not been something I have ever asked for more of so please don't put words into my mouth that were never spoken by me.

You may want to blame players like me but my ideas have never been listened to by Jordi nor changed because of me.

I could not care less for safe zones, carts, or pvp.

( however I did want trees but that addition to the game did not drive anyone away. )

[unclean666]

I said people like you not you alone so its really the Devs who is to blame but when 98% of the game are people who build quit build quit and do nothing but complain when somethings hard or theres not a part they need to finish some worthless building and other vets in the game who would just say...YEAH that sounds cool and a good idea WE NEED THAT.WTF do you think the devs are going to do and if any of us that could careless about that crap said anything about it and wanted focus on fixing stuff like crafting,animals,pvp and just making it all mean something peole like you and other vets jumped in all the time like everything was fine with those things and never supported them getting fixed because A.you had no interest in those things and B.you just dident like the person or persons saying it.



Well here you go this is what happens when you pick a side instead of whats good for the game as a whole.

[Mactavendish]

Whatever.

I have always supported much of what you said but blame me if you like.

You are one of the few still here, and I don't have any real interest in debating with you, but have to say that I agree its the dev to blame.

Just put something in that fun and not tedious, and give it purpose and folks will play.

[GuideRaguel]

Hello Mactavendish,

I've read through your original post, and the posts within the thread, it seems that you are finding Xsyon or the features currently in-game to not have a 'Purpose' or meaning.

You also ask a question to the community...


Question: Why would I want to play this game in it's current state?

I would like to flip that question around back at you with a slight twist.

What changes or additions to Xsyon would you like to see added, for it to give meaning or purpose to it, in a way that will encourage you to come back a play?

We would be really interested to hear what you think.

Thank you.

[Hodo]

Raguel,

I like that question you asked him, so I will answer for myself.

I like Xsyon, but I do not like the "theme". While I enjoy the features and the overall concept, I do not feel it is quite worth the current subscription price. Not saying it should be free to play, but not 15USD a month. Thats a bit high when compared to the others in that price range and what they offer both graphically and in features, not to mention development.

I would like more depth and reasons to the economy, there currently isnt a really worth it.

There is no real PvP or reason behind it, without a real penalty to death even PvE isnt fun, there is no real risk vs reward.

While the game world is large, it is spotted with dead totems, and half finished terraform projects.

While I dont care if we have mounts anytime soon, it would be nice to have beasts of burden, farming, cooking, and a reason to do it besides staving off debuffs.

[GuideRaguel]

Raguel,

I like that question you asked him, so I will answer for myself.

I like Xsyon, but I do not like the "theme". While I enjoy the features and the overall concept, I do not feel it is quite worth the current subscription price. Not saying it should be free to play, but not 15USD a month. Thats a bit high when compared to the others in that price range and what they offer both graphically and in features, not to mention development.

I would like more depth and reasons to the economy, there currently isnt a really worth it.

There is no real PvP or reason behind it, without a real penalty to death even PvE isnt fun, there is no real risk vs reward.

While the game world is large, it is spotted with dead totems, and half finished terraform projects.

While I dont care if we have mounts anytime soon, it would be nice to have beasts of burden, farming, cooking, and a reason to do it besides staving off debuffs.

Hello Hodo,

While I understand your points here, I'm still not getting that key information as to what you as a player would like to see added, to enable the game in its current state to have 'meaning or purpose'.
Alot of players keep commenting that the game has no meaning, yet we don't see many players going into much detail about what they personally think would give it meaning.

We're looking for examples of current in-game features that you think do not have meaning and what you as a player would add/change to make that feature have the desired meaning that you are all craving for.

[MrDDT]

Ok, I could have sworn we have said this 100 times before.

Rare valued resources that offer rewards that are localized and contested. (Like a mine that gives Superior Iron +3 bonus vs +1 bonus).
Localized basic resources that are a risk vs reward. North has XYZ resources, South has ZYX resources. They would like to trade to do things.
Faster modes of travel.
A way to regen HP.
A way to regen stamina. (Making travel a lot more fun)
Armor and weapons that matter, NOT nerf them so they dont matter anymore. Last patch went backwards here. Spent 1000s of hours training up skills to make good armor (weapons are still the same no need for the best crafters) only to have it nerfed so that instead of a 1% to 10% bonus you getting a .3% to 1.5% bonus. Nothing to make me want to play train my skills up and fight over that gear or resources.
Give reasons for buildings. Right now they are ONLY for looks and storing items that have no real value because they are easy to get, and offer no real rewards.
Give people other than combat people a value in the game. Like farmers, or cooks.
Give people that are combat a value in the game, hunting has just been made worthless. Combat people now only offer protection from PVE (Zombies)
Long Term goals for tribes to work together or trade. Like Building bridges, rail system etc.

[Tesla]

Yes, rare valued resources that actually serve a purpose. Tar and Ash, Freeway Rails and Lamp Post Heads, Quartz are in game. But you can't do anything with them. Yes, I know Tar is used for the Pioneer Waterskin, but surely that was not the only planned use for it. It could be used for torches, waterproofing, roofing construction, lots of things to create value. If I could line the perimeter of my tribe with actual street lights using these lamp post heads, now they would become a valued rare resource. What about building bridges with Freeway Rails? Just a few examples of "rare" items already in game that should have purpose and value. I can make a list of items that currently have no purpose if it helps.

[joexxxz]

prokop lol why are you still here???

[tomduril]

Meaning to a *game* - is that not something rather contradictory? I mean why pd people play card games (just for fun - not for money ...). Why do people play Diablo III? Tell me the "meaning" of that game :)

I believe the main purpose of any entertainment (games are entertainment) is to make the audience/players feel something - have emotions.

Films do things like joy, laughing (comedy), reflection (documentary, drama), sadness (drama), fear (horror), love, passion (love stories), and so on.

So if entertainment is about emotions, then a game should focus on some basic emotions of players:
-) a sense of achievement (hard to balance newbees and vets)
-) a sense of community (i believe that works well in Xsyon)
-) a sense of greed ("valuable" stuff)
-) a sense of power (domination of others, beeing the "best)

So how do other games do that ?

-) a sense of power (ladder, ranking, some easy way to compare oneself with others, very rare "achievements" that separates players)
-) greed (very rare stuff that others want and you have it - as a player you are "rich")
-) achievements - hard challenges that if you manage to complete them gives you some "uniqueness"

A lot of "purpose" is created from competition - and competition needs some way of comparing results and so on ...

If I may suggest something in this line:
*) compare how many trees a tribe fell in one week/month/game play season - the "winning" tribe will get a season long buff on wood crafting (all members - only within the tribe area)
*) compare how many bears/coyote... a tribe killed in one week/month/game play season - the "winning" tribe will get a season long buff on leather crafting (all members - only within the tribe area)
*) compare the most "Kills" in PvP ... get a buff in weapons craft

That probably not what Jordy is focusing on - but competition and comparison between groups/individuals drive a lot of games - even simple things like "facebook games" are based on this very simple concept. And that kind of motivator is missing in Xsyon - you can "compare" the building structures - but there are no rules to that - and so the competition is without focus... Even the PvP events do not have a lasting meaning.

Achievments: hard to complete - make you distinct from others - have "meaning" for at least some (real life) weeks ... in Wow (and that is a game that does that quite well - 9 mio players and more) -> for at least some time it is "meaningful" to have the best gear and the newest achievements - until the next addon "resets" this mark and all players start from more or less the same level.

Is that something that makes sense?
Make "actions" comparable between tribes and individuals?
Have a Xsyon "ladder" that you can try to compete with somebody / some group on "known" rules?

Any comments on that?

[Hodo]

Hello Hodo,
We're looking for examples of current in-game features that you think do not have meaning and what you as a player would add/change to make that feature have the desired meaning that you are all craving for.

Everything that is listed below is what we have been screaming, yelling, and asking for, for a few months. Things have been sliding backwards for months, other than go out redesign a homestead, build a new tree house, or see how high I can pile dirt till I have a hut on top of a spike in the middle of nowhere. All have no real meaning. There are no rare resources, there are no real buffs to armor or weapons, there is no reason to get high skills or even average skills other than to say you did it. Sure in a few years junk piles may begin to vanish but not anytime soon. And then there is the problem of there still is no push for the economy. Why should I trade with people when I can do most everything I need for myself. Not saying it should be more "team" oriented but I should need to trade every so often, even if its for better food.


Ok, I could have sworn we have said this 100 times before.

Rare valued resources that offer rewards that are localized and contested. (Like a mine that gives Superior Iron +3 bonus vs +1 bonus).
Localized basic resources that are a risk vs reward. North has XYZ resources, South has ZYX resources. They would like to trade to do things.
Faster modes of travel.
A way to regen HP.
A way to regen stamina. (Making travel a lot more fun)
Armor and weapons that matter, NOT nerf them so they dont matter anymore. Last patch went backwards here. Spent 1000s of hours training up skills to make good armor (weapons are still the same no need for the best crafters) only to have it nerfed so that instead of a 1% to 10% bonus you getting a .3% to 1.5% bonus. Nothing to make me want to play train my skills up and fight over that gear or resources.
Give reasons for buildings. Right now they are ONLY for looks and storing items that have no real value because they are easy to get, and offer no real rewards.
Give people other than combat people a value in the game. Like farmers, or cooks.
Give people that are combat a value in the game, hunting has just been made worthless. Combat people now only offer protection from PVE (Zombies)
Long Term goals for tribes to work together or trade. Like Building bridges, rail system etc.

[znaiika]

What happened? are remnents dose not make you happy? isen't that what you always wanted?
No wonder what players wanted aren't always the right decisions.
And it is not a surprise people don't want to play such tedious game.

[Hodo]

What happened? are remnents dose not make you happy? isen't that what you always wanted?
No wonder what players wanted aren't always the right decisions.
And it is not a surprise people don't want to play such tedious game.

I dont recall ever saying the Revnants or "zombies" would ever make me happy. Of all the things I wanted that was really low on the totem pole. I know for me personnally I wanted ranged combat, two handed weapons, cooking, animal training (mounts and for carts), and farming. Then I wouldnt mind a canoe or a kayak to get across the lake, but no need for big boats.

Instead I am now playing another half finished game with worse graphics that offers me more of what I am looking for right now. I unsubbed from Xsyon because I will only pay for one game at a time, and I did the math, pay for Star Quest Online - 9.99 a month vs 14.99 a month. I will keep an eye on Xsyon, but I am not paying for it anymore.

[Mactavendish]

Tomduril said it better than I could... But let me add a couple things.

1. Give me a client that will actually work on my computer.

I can download from either eu or us patch server, do all the normal tricks, login and try and play my toon...

and it always just hangs at loading world.

2. Life in this game is meant to be hard, but some things should not be as tedious.

Building and crafting in real life are MUCH easier and less tedious than here.

Maybe make it so its easy to make 100 axe blades but take time to sharpen each one for use. Lower the weight of all these base resources or limit the number you can find to 1 or 2

[znaiika]

@ tomduril.
-) a sense of achievement "but not so tedious"
-) a sense of community
-) a sense of greed "not a good idea"
-) a sense of power "that depends on play style.
-) a sense of safety. "not forced PVP"
-) a sense of self king. "can do all things without the need of dependence"

[MrDDT]

@ tomduril.
-) a sense of achievement "but not so tedious"
-) a sense of community
-) a sense of greed "not a good idea"
-) a sense of power "that depends on play style.
-) a sense of safety. "not forced PVP"
-) a sense of self king. "can do all things without the need of dependence"


You are playing the wrong game. Try A Tale in the Desert.

[znaiika]

[/B]


You are playing the wrong game. Try A Tale in the Desert.

Still a skeptic? Soon you'll have to play this "" A Tale in the Desert "" your self, just watch.

[Wharmaster]

Of all the things I wanted that was really low on the totem pole. I know for me personnally I wanted ranged combat, two handed weapons, cooking, animal training (mounts and for carts), and farming. Then I wouldnt mind a canoe or a kayak to get across the lake, but no need for big boats.

A-freakin'-men. These are the things I've been hoping and praying to the gaming gods for, and instead I get...zombies. /sigh

[Mactavendish]

Zombies were actually a draw for me, but I would settle now for being able to completely login and enjoy building and crafting without un-needed tedium.

( it's really weird too... hangs on loading world and I have played before on this computer and the same video card. )

[Dakeen]

[/B]


You are playing the wrong game. Try A Tale in the Desert.

Maybe you are? How bout you STFU an go play something else since all you can do is bitch in this one?

[tomduril]

That is quite unfair against MrDDT - he probably cares too much for the game, and that's why he sometimes gets frustrated ...

He is not always "bitching", most of the time he is very constructive (or destructive) ... depends really.

So what seems to you as "bitching" is in reality "careing too much" - probably the same as with your parents/friend/husband/wife when they are bitching :P

---------------------------
BTW @English-natives ... is there a "gender-correct" word for "husband/wife" ?
So that it is gender neutral and also includes "same gender partners"? German: "Lebensbegleiter" (meaning "life sharer" which is sort of neutral and can mean any gender)

[MrDDT]

Maybe you are? How bout you STFU an go play something else since all you can do is bitch in this one?

I'm not the one asking for removal of PVP, and skills.

If you notice I try to stay within lines of the game of what I want. Either improving on Xsyon's ideas.
If you would please display where I've posted things that are completely out of line of Xsyon's core ideas? Like say removing all safe zones.

[Willowhawk]

BTW @English-natives ... is there a "gender-correct" word for "husband/wife" ?
So that it is gender neutral and also includes "same gender partners"? German: "Lebensbegleiter" (meaning "life sharer" which is sort of neutral and can mean any gender)

"Spouse" is common for (Husband/Wife) either genders. Life partner can also be used for either gender or same gender :)

[Dakeen]

MrDDT makes some good points about the game but there is no reason to be so snide towards other peoples ideas.

Instead of the now generic "Go play Game X" try saying something along the lines of "That is not within the developers core ideas". Easy.

[MrDDT]

MrDDT makes some good points about the game but there is no reason to be so snide towards other peoples ideas.

Instead of the now generic "Go play Game X" try saying something along the lines of "That is not within the developers core ideas". Easy.

I have said that. Many times do this guy. You should go read those threads. If anything I was the nice one in them.

[Hodo]

MrDDT makes some good points about the game but there is no reason to be so snide towards other peoples ideas.

Instead of the now generic "Go play Game X" try saying something along the lines of "That is not within the developers core ideas". Easy.

We started nice with Znaiika, then we got short, now its just down right hostile, because he refuses to listen. He only wants one thing, WoW. Everything must be like WoW or close to WoW, with some sandbox elements. Just no PvP. So he just wants WoW or ATID.

Sorry but I am with DDT on this, dont come in half cocked with none of the information jumping down his throat because you have a paladin complex and must be the saving hero.

[Dakeen]

I too was frustrated that is all. I do apologize MrDDT. I got told to go play Wow for asking if there was a way to sell stuff in a different game moments before posting that. Also wow was mentioned to me several times in the last week for other stupid stuff.

[znaiika]

We started nice with Znaiika, then we got short, now its just down right hostile, because he refuses to listen. He only wants one thing, WoW.

Or you refuse to accept that this game is dying because of lack of population due to harsh rules and tedious grind.
All I was asking is to add pve server along side, so we have more people playing, if you don't want any changes to a current server toward safer environment, you can call this server pvp, and change it to whatever you please.
And you are the once who escalate the heat.
And, in fact, I never played WoW for it's toon based environment, never liked it.

[unclean666]

This game has pvp?....hum i dident know that.

[znaiika]

This game has pvp?....hum i dident know that.

Why do you think is that?

[joexxxz]

@znaiika
he was sarcastic, i think :)

[znaiika]

@znaiika
he was sarcastic, i think :)

It seems like /cheers.

[Hodo]

Or you refuse to accept that this game is dying because of lack of population due to harsh rules and tedious grind.
All I was asking is to add pve server along side, so we have more people playing, if you don't want any changes to a current server toward safer environment, you can call this server pvp, and change it to whatever you please.
And you are the once who escalate the heat.
And, in fact, I never played WoW for it's toon based environment, never liked it.

Harsh rules? What harsh rules? There are NO RULES! Asside from the ussual, no hacking, exploiting or cheating. Hell if I wanted to totem camp someone I could if they left their totem lands. Nothing keeps me from doing it. If I wanted to drag a shadow bear through your totem to get you off your totem I could. Seriously kid go play something else instead of bitching about this game.

[znaiika]

Harsh rules? What harsh rules? There are NO RULES! Asside from the ussual, no hacking, exploiting or cheating. Hell if I wanted to totem camp someone I could if they left their totem lands. Nothing keeps me from doing it. If I wanted to drag a shadow bear through your totem to get you off your totem I could. Seriously kid go play something else instead of bitching about this game.

Do you even think what you write? seams that you are a kid so far and you just proved your pvp needs.
Forced pvp, death penalty, limited skill achievements, full loot, can't leave baskets outside safe zones, I can go on and on and on. I know your response to this, so, no need for that.
What could be fun game? is transformed in to tedious grind and harsh rules.
So far these improvements are meant to scare people off.
How many players still left playing?
How many new players came and left?
Your and ddts agenda didn't work so far and is proven useless.
Maybe its time for you to go play something else instead.

[MrDDT]

Do you even think what you write? seams that you are a kid so far and you just proved your pvp needs.
Forced pvp, death penalty, limited skill achievements, full loot, can't leave baskets outside safe zones, I can go on and on and on. I know your response to this, so, no need for that.
What could be fun game? is transformed in to tedious grind and harsh rules.
So far these improvements are meant to scare people off.
How many players still left playing?
How many new players came and left?
Your and ddts agenda didn't work so far and is proven useless.
Maybe its time for you to go play something else instead.

Dont blame this on me, the people left before I even started playing.

You act like these changes is what scared people off, it was because these changes were not there in the first place is why people left. On top of the crashing and lag. These were promised at the start of the game, they were not there.

I understand where you are coming from, you want a game where you can do whatever you want and no one can do anything about it. They have a game like that, its called A tale in the desert. Go check it out.

[Hodo]

I understand where you are coming from, you want a game where you can do whatever you want and no one can do anything about it. They have a game like that, its called A tale in the desert. Go check it out.


This.

5char

[Willowhawk]

Do you even think what you write? seams that you are a kid so far and you just proved your pvp needs.
Forced pvp, death penalty, limited skill achievements, full loot, can't leave baskets outside safe zones, I can go on and on and on.
Do you even think what YOU write!

Death penalty? All MMO's except crafting games have death penalties of some type or another. Limited Skills? Almost all MMO's limit the amount of skills any one player can achieve to create an supply and demand economy.

Can''t leave baskets? Really?? You can't leave ANYTHING in all mmo's I have played except Irth (another sandbox) and people could take anything left out in the open.

As far as people leaving? At release there were thousands of players who left with in a couple months. Not because of PVP but because of performance issues and lack of content. No cooking, no taming, no range weapons etc. All of those people understood they were signing up for a PVP oriented game and DID NOT leave because they got into game and discovered it was PVP. I don't agree with DDT on many issues, but on this one he is correct and once again all you are doing is trying to prove an invalid point.

[Mactavendish]

So again, I see that things have not changed all that much.

Glad that a few more new folks are playing, and that there is still progress being made regardless of it fitting my personal likes or not.

Totem decay needs to happen.

I am not sure I can play the game with my current video card, so may not be able to try.

I did swap video cards to get logged in for a bit and saw that the area we have is mostly abandoned by everyone, and way too many revs roaming.

crafting is still as tedious and gathering resources solo is not fun when you get jumped by 4 revs from a single man totem before you can even reach the junk piles. if we had a healthy population it may have been fun, but as of now it makes the game too tedious and frustrating to enjoy.

That too needs to change.

All the comments about who is to blame, who did or did not support whatever idea is all moot as nobody has suggested anything that brought the players back nor have the devs moved in a direction that encouraged previous players to return.

Looks like I will need to continue to watch from the side until this becomes something to enjoy.

[znaiika]

Do you even think what YOU write!

Death penalty? All MMO's except crafting games have death penalties of some type or another. Limited Skills? Almost all MMO's limit the amount of skills any one player can achieve to create an supply and demand economy.

Can''t leave baskets? Really?? You can't leave ANYTHING in all mmo's I have played except Irth (another sandbox) and people could take anything left out in the open.

As far as people leaving? At release there were thousands of players who left with in a couple months. Not because of PVP but because of performance issues and lack of content. No cooking, no taming, no range weapons etc. All of those people understood they were signing up for a PVP oriented game and DID NOT leave because they got into game and discovered it was PVP. I don't agree with DDT on many issues, but on this one he is correct and once again all you are doing is trying to prove an invalid point.

Not all MMOs have death penalties, and if other have? those are only temporary and only affect attributes, which are restored back to normal with countdown timer.
Can't leave anything? is because those are not sandbox games, instead you have all stored in vaults, and all your progress is saved.
They implemented many of those things, why people aren't coming back?
If my point is invalid, then why Xsyon is loosing population even more?
Totem removal was ddts idea, he tolled to notify people about it trough email and people are going to come back, Why people did not came back?
Death penalty was ddts idea, did not brought people back in game either.
Making tedious skill grind was ddts idea, and also failed to bring people back.
Should I name other ddts ideas? like revenants, accessible baskets, etc, etc.

[unclean666]

Starting to reach a little there......getting old as well.

[MrDDT]

Not all MMOs have death penalties, and if other have? those are only temporary and only affect attributes, which are restored back to normal with countdown timer.
Can't leave anything? is because those are not sandbox games, instead you have all stored in vaults, and all your progress is saved.
They implemented many of those things, why people aren't coming back?
If my point is invalid, then why Xsyon is loosing population even more?
Totem removal was ddts idea, he tolled to notify people about it trough email and people are going to come back, Why people did not came back?
Death penalty was ddts idea, did not brought people back in game either.
Making tedious skill grind was ddts idea, and also failed to bring people back.
Should I name other ddts ideas? like revenants, accessible baskets, etc, etc.


I can name 100s of MMO's that have exp loss on death. This loss isnt gained back after a timer.
I also can name a lot that drop full loot.
I can name a lot that damage gear on death, that will not come back after a timer.
I can name many that have a $ cost on death.

You can store your items in a vault and all your progress is saved when you do anything.

Many of those things implemented have bugs, and are still not the content, dont forget its a package deal. Try making a cake and you dont have oil, eggs, sugar, water, or flour. Then try making a cake and add oil, and flour but no water, sugar, or eggs. The cake will still be crappy.

Xsyon isnt losing more population, if you read correctly they have more people now than last month. (I would say mostly due to totem decay and Revs). However, again see the cake talk.

Totem removal was NOT my idea haha, you should check my idea here. http://www.xsyon.com/forum/project.php?issueid=1230
Again this is only PART of the fix to bringing the game up to speed on things. Its like adding decay on items. Its not going to cause everyone to come flocking back, its a start of a fix to the problem.

Death Penalty was my idea? First there is no death penalty unless its a player killing you then its a 30s looting issue. Which neither were my idea.

This grinding of skills is NOT my idea. I can link you to my ideas, Ive said over 3 years ago that the grind was NOT fun, too boring and NOT the way to do it. My idea is a lot like Roma Victors. You use devices that you dont have to attend, you build more devices if you want to craft more. Devices take a long time to build, take lots of resources to build. Its not the # of actions its more of a time thing. Freeing up people to play, not "grind".

Rev's were not my idea either. Please list ANY of idea of mine. I will tell you one of my ideas. Carts, that was an idea I've pushed for and I think has had a great impact on the game. I also think they should be better off.
Skill pools was sorta my idea but Xsyon himself is the one that first talked about it years ago. I just pushed for it so everyone isnt everything at master level. Again I think it's helped people focus on crafting.

These things are small parts to a whole. You cant make a cake with just 1 or 2 items, you need many things.

[znaiika]

@ MrDDT.
I am a patient man I can wait and see about that cake of yours.
I bet this game is going to die if they keep on the same tracks, or make a complete turn around and save the day, just like you said about that cake, if Xsyon is going to develop around those few that are left trying to please them? it's going to die-out, they need to bring in to focus a much bigger picture and evolve around all kind of play-styles.

[Willowhawk]

I bet this game is going to die if they keep on the same tracks

You saying "Xsyon is dying" doesn't make it so. The numbers say you are wrong. As of now Raven Moon has been recruiting more players than we have in the past 15 months. And I am seeing more new names in chat all the time.

There is tons of content still waiting to be released before the game is truly complete and as more of that content comes in more people will play. It is still in line with Jordis original vision and I doubt he will be changing his vision to suit only you.

Games with NPC's and questing systems are designed to be PVE even if they add PVP elements. Sanbox games like Xsyon are designed with the intent that players make the game. Therefore it is the "players against players" that give the game meaning and gives players a purpose. If you take that away what have you got?

Your vision! A crafting game with no purpose and baskets scattered all over the world.
A tale in the desert.

[MrDDT]

@ MrDDT.
I am a patient man I can wait and see about that cake of yours.
I bet this game is going to die if they keep on the same tracks, or make a complete turn around and save the day, just like you said about that cake, if Xsyon is going to develop around those few that are left trying to please them? it's going to die-out, they need to bring in to focus a much bigger picture and evolve around all kind of play-styles.


First of the few people left playing (yes I say few, even if its more than the last 3 or so months, having 20 to 100 people in an MMO is still few to me) are mostly NON combat. Very few of them are focused on PVP or even combat at all.

Xsyon has 1 thing working in it right now (sure some minor bugs) that is building.
AI is still boring and messed up, there is no real challenge or reward for players. Mutants have been removed for who knows what reason. PVP has no objective and isnt rewarding at all. Tribes have nothing to do on a large scale (outside of building).

For Xsyon (in my opinion of course) to turn around, it needs to do something more than building SIM.
Here are a few things I think it should work towards.

I) Economy based world, where rare items are traded, crafting is worthwhile, it advances (much like A tale in the desert)
II) PVP needs to have a focus, contested areas, death punishments, and rewards for a victor.
III) PVE needs to be more tier based. Meaning you start off near the lake with very easy non aggressive monsters that offer little reward, and work your way out to the mist where there are strong holds and fortress of zombies, vampires, huge mutant animals etc that yield great rewards that takes groups of well geared players to kill.

Few minor things needing worked on.

I) Travel times, Energy regen, Respawn times, Healing regen. Basic time wasted doing nothing (not playing but watching a bar or bored)
II) Comfort and a reason to wear clothing and build housing. Rested states, buffs etc.
III) Better way to trade, current trading system (totems and right click/trade) is not useful, hard to use, buggy and not working in other ways. Good idea with the totem but it needs a HUGE overhaul on the GUI for it and how easy it is to use. It should drag and drop items and easy to put what you want for trade or not. Other tribes should see it in the game from their totems (or any totem) and see where to get it at, then got that totem and "buy" it.
IV) Items weigh way to much, its causing major issues with basic play.
V) Resources are way to easy to get top end resources. Most resources should be junk/poor/low/mod QL with very very little being VHQ/Master/Supreme. Right now I can gather resources and I ALWAYS get 90+ QL. Its inflating the market for these high end resources.
VI) I would stop adding "NEW" content and fix what we have then move on. Too many bugs and balancing issues are just getting left behind.

[znaiika]

@ MrDDT.
It is a good start.
On the loot part, instead of looting player items, I'd rather see system with random rare loot, which will encourage more people to pvp for those things, which will be available through pvp only, without a fear of loosing their own gear, and pve should have own loot tables, so at the end of the day, everyone wins and feel happy.

[Hodo]

@ MrDDT.
It is a good start.
On the loot part, instead of looting player items, I'd rather see system with random rare loot, which will encourage more people to pvp for those things, which will be available through pvp only, without a fear of loosing their own gear, and pve should have own loot tables, so at the end of the day, everyone wins and feel happy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD6j_7bgrtA

And well you can figure the rest out.

[MrDDT]

@ MrDDT.
It is a good start.
On the loot part, instead of looting player items, I'd rather see system with random rare loot, which will encourage more people to pvp for those things, which will be available through pvp only, without a fear of loosing their own gear, and pve should have own loot tables, so at the end of the day, everyone wins and feel happy.


I understand you dont want PVP, and you are afraid to lose your items. But just think people have overcome that fear because items are just that items. You earned them once you and earn them again. This isnt WOW where items take years to get with a lucky loot roll after killing an epic boss. Items here are mostly easy to replace, and if you cant easy replace them use a lower item until you can.

If you have items that you are afraid to lose, then dont use those items in times when you might lose them.

You know you cant please every one right?
Lets just use your "everyone wins and feels happy".

What if you have playerA who doesnt like to lose items on PVP deaths.
What if you have playerB who doesnt care about losing items on PVP deaths.
What if you have playerC who only cares about taking playerA or playerB's items on the win.

You cant please all 3 of those players.
playerA 's ideas are causing issues with economy
playerB 's ideas shows an issue with the economy
playerC 's ideas are causing issues with playerA's gameplay.

That is just a very limited break down for you. I can go more in-depth but I see no real reason too.

Just FYI PVE already has a loot table.
PVP has full loot.

I would rather see a system with less random rare loot that is contested. I see no reason to have "random" loot.
The looting of the other players in PVP is very common, why you loot in a sandbox game is to cause a resource drain on the enemy forcing them to back off, or expend more resources to keep fighting. If there were no loss of items in PVP, you would need larger losses in other way else everyone would be killing everyone and no one would care if they died or not.

[joexxxz]

An idea. Xsyon mentioned that there is going to be tribes beyond the green mist that we can trade with???
Any ideas how is that going to work??

I think instead of progress bar, we need a certain timer on crafting.
For example: Let say making a grass twine.
Right now it takes about 3 seconds to do it.
What if we had this:
Player A is a noob. For player A it takes 25 seconds to do a twine, but without a "progress bar", instead the player can stop, or continue the craft at his/her own will. Once the player A acquire a shop, he/she now can produce the twine at 10 seconds.
When the player A down the road upgrades a shop, now he/she can produce a twine at 3 seconds.

Instead of the grind, make the items longer to produce to get the same results.
I like some what how is done in EVE, or in Perpetuum

[znaiika]

DDT?
The reason why I am representing this idea is because with a fool loot in a group fight a noob could loot your gear and you are going to end-up fighting naked or brake off a fight to get new gear, it's not a professional pvp, and you can't keep an extra gear on you to put it on.
I understand your concern about an economy, there is another way to keep it going like loosing integrity of that gear each time it is hit " depends on which part of that gear is hit, vest, gloves, helmet, etc, etc ", plus consumables which you need to have on you in order to fight effectively, weapons get dull.
Gear could have normal wear and combat wear and so dose weapons.
I would not recommend death penalty on items because of weight problem, rather on some xp just so there is a penalty.

[Hodo]

DDT?
The reason why I am representing this idea is because with a fool loot in a group fight a noob could loot your gear and you are going to end-up fighting naked or brake off a fight to get new gear, it's not a professional pvp, and you can't keep an extra gear on you to put it on.
I understand your concern about an economy, there is another way to keep it going like loosing integrity of that gear each time it is hit " depends on which part of that gear is hit, vest, gloves, helmet, etc, etc ", plus consumables which you need to have on you in order to fight effectively, weapons get dull.
Gear could have normal wear and combat wear and so dose weapons.
I would not recommend death penalty on items because of weight problem, rather on some xp just so there is a penalty.

In professional PvP, there is no respawning. You are dead, till the match is over.

I know professional PvPers, they play other games, much like we have suggested you do. I thought you left to go play CS:S? I guess they didnt change the game to fit your whims either so you came back here to cry more.

[MrDDT]

DDT?
The reason why I am representing this idea is because with a fool loot in a group fight a noob could loot your gear and you are going to end-up fighting naked or brake off a fight to get new gear, it's not a professional pvp, and you can't keep an extra gear on you to put it on.
I understand your concern about an economy, there is another way to keep it going like loosing integrity of that gear each time it is hit " depends on which part of that gear is hit, vest, gloves, helmet, etc, etc ", plus consumables which you need to have on you in order to fight effectively, weapons get dull.
Gear could have normal wear and combat wear and so dose weapons.
I would not recommend death penalty on items because of weight problem, rather on some xp just so there is a penalty.


Reason why I don't like XP being the penalty is because then players are forced to keep regrinding skills. I know you don't like that, I dont like that, other players don't like that. So permanent loss of skills is not an option. (Even Xsyon himself said its not an option)

About a noob could loot your gear. How is a noob going to loot your gear? If you die, you should consider your gear gone.
Carrying a second set? You wouldnt need to carry a second set you would need to have a second set wherever you respawn (Your totem AKA your house). Your respawn point is a 100% safe area. If you want to craft new items you were missing or take your time gearing up you could do that. You should also run back out to the fight and try looting your gear. Another then is maybe your teammates looted some extra gear for you.

About the decay on weapons, armor etc. I agree they should have then they sorta already do but it needs to be more balanced in my opinion.

In Darkfall they have full loot drop on death. Which allows teammates to get your gear if you die or protect it. It also causes players who did die on the battle field to think twice about coming out with full gear and just death zerging.
Plus dont forget that the attackers have to win enough to be able to get that loot off the grave AND get it back to a safe location.

Your "noob" looting your gear doesnt apply here.

[znaiika]

About a noob could loot your gear. How is a noob going to loot your gear? If you die, you should consider your gear gone.
Carrying a second set? You wouldnt need to carry a second set you would need to have a second set wherever you respawn (Your totem AKA your house). Your respawn point is a 100% safe area. If you want to craft new items you were missing or take your time gearing up you could do that. You should also run back out to the fight and try looting your gear. Another then is maybe your teammates looted some extra gear for you.


How dose that help pvp? if you have to go across the map to recover your gear? why even bother with pvp? make a whole world pve.
Noob can loot after other players kill you.

If you loose just a small portion of xp it's not a big deal, I am sure you could handle that loss, you even agreed on loosing status that takes much longer to recover then xps.
What is the difference between grinding for gear or for skills? to grind for gear is going to take much longer then for xps.
Unless the only way to pvp is going to be naked fights.
Seams you do want this game to die-out because there is no point of pvp and is boring to grind everyday for food and gear.

[MrDDT]

How dose that help pvp? if you have to go across the map to recover your gear? why even bother with pvp? make a whole world pve.
Noob can loot after other players kill you.

If you loose just a small portion of xp it's not a big deal, I am sure you could handle that loss, you even agreed on loosing status that takes much longer to recover then xps.
What is the difference between grinding for gear or for skills? to grind for gear is going to take much longer then for xps.
Seams you do want this game to die-out because there is no point of pvp and is boring to grind everyday for food and gear.


Why would i want this game to die out? Its already has few people playing it. I want this game to be great.

Who says you have to go across the map? Maybe you died 10 feet outside your totem area. Either way if you lose your gear in a death, its gone make more, trade for more, or go get it.

Losing just 1 skill point can take much longer and more resources than any stack of gear. If you only cause a small amount to be loss then it only effects very very little amount of people. Simple concept dont bring anything you cant afford to lose. Played games like EVE online, Darkfall, Wurm Online. They have the same concept. You learn that gear isnt that big of a deal, and if you have something you cant afford to lose dont take it to places you are likely to die.
Gear in Xsyon is very easy to replace to a common level. Yes there is some rare gear (impossible gear now to make due to mutants being gone) to make, but the effect of gear is very minor. You can replace it to near 100% in a very short amount of time. Resources are very very easy to get.

Have you got any crafting, resources or combat skills to 100 yet? Not talking about running or something really easy.