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GuideRaguel
07-13-2012, 09:17 AM
Feedback Request: Abandonment Phase Patch
Hello Survivors!

We would love to hear your thoughts on the latest patch excluding creature AI.

What are your thoughts on the abandoned totems?
And give us your general thoughts on the overall patch.
The full patch notes can be found here...

http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthrea...ll=1#post96407

Thank you.

Riverspirit
07-13-2012, 06:24 PM
Well, there still seem to be no creatures around our zone. A couple of revs, that is about it. And now it doesn't really matter, since the gear is nerfed, since now there is not really any incentive to try to get better mats for better gear. I don't understand a cap of 25? Maybe 25 per stat, but 25 total? Maybe I am misunderstanding, but I don't see the reasoning here, since now it seems the goals I had yesterday don't mean anything. I can understand not wanting people to have 100+ stat gear, but 25? Don't you see this killing the little economy this game has? Just sayin...

Olokia
07-16-2012, 07:04 AM
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned but I picked up a discarded bin on the side of the road (not on tribal land) and then put it down on my land. Now I can't pick it up because it says "I don't have permission to do this". Also when I open it is says "Using tribal authority to access locked container". Surely this isn't right as I know have a bin that I can't move on my land.

Riverspirit
07-17-2012, 07:04 AM
The stats shown on my gear do not match the stats that are added when I put on my gear. I would like the gear to accurately reflect what gets added when I put it on. Also, if there is a cap for each item, is it posted some where? And is the overall cap posted some where? I am a high level crafter, and I would still like to be able to maximize the benefit from the items I make. Showing actual stats on my items would be helpful, instead of showing the old stat, but adding the diminished stat to my char when I put it on. Thanks!

Xsyon
07-17-2012, 10:01 AM
Hello Riverspirit,

The stat bonus revisons are in progress and will be corrected properly as soon as possible. I posted in our Update thread regarding these changes:

One important recent change that there have been questions about is the 'nerfing' of stat bonuses on armor. Currently the limits are set to a max of 25 point per stat due to armor bonuses. Individual armor parts also have per stat limits based on the type of part, with the larger parts providing higher stat bonuses. Older parts that exceed these limits currently display the previous bonuses. We are working to revise the old bonuses in a balanced way so that old armor parts retain their previous relative power.

Current Per Part Stat Limits:

torso 2.50 pelvis 2.50 calf 1.50 chest 3.00 elbow 1.00 foot 2.00 forearm 1.50 hand 2.00 head 2.00 knee 1.00 shoulder 1.00 thigh 1.50 upperarm 1.50 waist 1.00 neck 1.00
This is a necessary revision to balance things as they were originally intended and allow for additonal bonuses that will be gained from weapons and other sources. The relative effect of each stat will also be adjusted so that stats elevated beyond 100 are worthwhile.

In effect, we are revising the system so that it is within correct and manageable limits. The 'volume' was turned up to 11 and we are turning it back down to 10.

Xsyon
07-17-2012, 10:01 AM
Hello Olokia,

We will look into this issue tonight. One of our Guides will contact you if we need to check this exact bin.

Thanks!

MrDDT
07-17-2012, 11:28 AM
This armor issue here, gives me no will to play. Its causing the game to go backwards for economy. Why worry about wearing good armor when a person with 20 skill points and go kill a normal bear and get 90% of the effect?

Plus on top of that, the effect isnt even worth it. Oh yeah, I now can do +.02 more damage by having the BEST STR elbows in the game? I had to kill a 1400 HP mutant (which are not even in game any more) to get this. Sounds good to me. Because instead of doing 10.00 damage now, I will do 10.02 damage. EPIC. Totally worth it.

Riverspirit
07-17-2012, 12:09 PM
Hello Riverspirit,

The stat bonus revisons are in progress and will be corrected properly as soon as possible. I posted in our Update thread regarding these changes:

One important recent change that there have been questions about is the 'nerfing' of stat bonuses on armor. Currently the limits are set to a max of 25 point per stat due to armor bonuses. Individual armor parts also have per stat limits based on the type of part, with the larger parts providing higher stat bonuses. Older parts that exceed these limits currently display the previous bonuses. We are working to revise the old bonuses in a balanced way so that old armor parts retain their previous relative power.

Current Per Part Stat Limits:

torso 2.50 pelvis 2.50 calf 1.50 chest 3.00 elbow 1.00 foot 2.00 forearm 1.50 hand 2.00 head 2.00 knee 1.00 shoulder 1.00 thigh 1.50 upperarm 1.50 waist 1.00 neck 1.00
This is a necessary revision to balance things as they were originally intended and allow for additonal bonuses that will be gained from weapons and other sources. The relative effect of each stat will also be adjusted so that stats elevated beyond 100 are worthwhile.

In effect, we are revising the system so that it is within correct and manageable limits. The 'volume' was turned up to 11 and we are turning it back down to 10.

This is helpful, thank you. So it is 25 per stat? And each piece is per stat? So if I have 2 stats on an item I will see them both up to the limit? Thanks again.

Willowhawk
07-17-2012, 12:29 PM
Feedback Request: Abandonment Phase Patch
Hello Survivors!

We would love to hear your thoughts on the latest patch excluding creature AI.

What are your thoughts on the abandoned totems?

Since Raven Moon is so isolated we have no Revenants or creatures for that matter I'm not the best candidate to comment on creature strength etc, however I did run from our place in the lower south west all the way to 1022 in the northwest, and spent time running around up north. I found the Revenants fairly easy to evade if you keep energy up you can run and lose agro. They were not hard for me to kill but I understand they should get stronger in time so we'll see how that goes.

We have encountered some problems with new players coming into the game right in the mist of Revenants. Of course they are too hard for a new player to kill and I tried to get one returning player to our tribe which took us about 3 hours and a second player chose to re-roll and spawn at our tribe because he kept dying (Not just to Revenants but also animals so some of that is normal risk).

Getting killed within 3 minutes of entering the world however is a bit discouraging for new players, especially if they get caught in a death loop because a totem is close by and they have no idea even how to attack or where to run.

I wonder if a buffer zone around the new player spawn areas couldn't be created? This would also prevent any future grieving of brand new players. (not that this happens but the potential for it is there). Or at the least move the spawn site to a clear area that has some distance from any decaying totems. Just my thoughts on that, thanks. :)

Riverspirit
07-17-2012, 01:51 PM
Well, I understand the reasoning for wanting to even things out, but after a year and thousands of hours grinding my crafts, I should be able to create much better gear than a new player. Otherwise what benefit is there to crafting, or to playing long term?

I really think you need to stop taking things away from veteran players every time you decide to help new players. Even the new players need something to work toward. And veteran players should have an advantage, maybe not as much as before, but there should be some reward for playing this long.

This might sound like I am agreeing with DDT... but I will never admit to that. :cool:

And herds of crazed marmots? Really? LOL. And Willow is right about the newbie zones, it is nearly impossible to spawn at Tallac without dying right away. Give the poor noobs a chance to figure out what is going on.

Ok, I am done now. ;)

Xsyon
07-17-2012, 08:45 PM
So it is 25 per stat? And each piece is per stat? So if I have 2 stats on an
item I will see them both up to the limit?


Yes it is 25 per stat and the per piece limit is also per stat. This is in preparation for armor set revisions as Artisan and Master sets will allow for more materials that can provide stat bonuses. (Basic sets will use use 1 primary material, Artisan sets 2, Master sets 3)

Veteran crafters will still be able to craft better gear than new or mid range players as the relative effect of other variables (tools, skills, and stats) is being adjusted right now.

The armor limits were set now rather than later so that we could properly balance the power of creatures and revenants now for players as they will be once our crafting revisions are finalized. The ability of non veteran crafters to boost adult age materials to the bonus limit did get by us but this is being rectified immediately.

MrDDT
07-17-2012, 09:06 PM
Yes it is 25 per stat and the per piece limit is also per stat. This is in preparation for armor set revisions as Artisan and Master sets will allow for more materials that can provide stat bonuses. (Basic sets will use use 1 primary material, Artisan sets 2, Master sets 3)

Veteran crafters will still be able to craft better gear than new or mid range players as the relative effect of other variables (tools, skills, and stats) is being adjusted right now.

The armor limits were set now rather than later so that we could properly balance the power of creatures and revenants now for players as they will be once our crafting revisions are finalized. The ability of non veteran crafters to boost adult age materials to the bonus limit did get by us but this is being rectified immediately.


What is an extra .02 damage bonus per item going to do for anyone? This is what you want MAX on your items. Do you even care about an economy in this game? Have you tried playing your game at all to see what is able to be sold or traded?

Let me tell you, only 1 item is really sold or traded and its recipes. Because every noob can and will craft their own crap, which is easy to get.
This armor was the only thing causing people to drive for rare mats, and focusing their skills.

If you are balancing power off these lower armor version, yet going to some how put higher ones in later. Why even balance it now, when later higher ones will be in? Why didnt you just do it at the same time?

When we told you this on the test server nothing was done. Now its on live and new players are making the best stuff in game.

This is on top of the nerf and slap in the face vets had that spent 1000s of hours grinding skills, stats, and getting the rarest mats in the game. Trading other hard earned items for these rare mats only to have them worth crap now.

How about instead of nerfing the items that are working already in game fix the other issues with economy? Heck mutants are turned off right now what happened with that?

Xsyon
07-18-2012, 12:48 AM
Recently I have had the time to play the game. In addition we have better tools now to collect data. By playing and inspecting this data I became aware of the extreme imbalance created by overpowered armor, crafted primarily from legendary mutant parts. I played at times with 200 in stats such as strength, fortitude and agility and found it ridiculous. I do not consider armor parts with extreme bonuses to be a 'working' part of the game. Rather I saw it as a critical imbalance issue that needed to be addressed.

There was a huge gap between the vast majority of active players and a few handful of players that have overpowered armor sets, where there should be a more even distribution, with the high level veterans still at the top. Overpowered armor sets could be used to boost a new player or alt to the stat level of most veterans, and that is indeed a slap in the face of veterans who worked on skills and stats without the benefit of trapping and 'growing' a legendary creature.

The original basis for game balance, as designed years ago, was inspired by Dungeons and Dragons. A +5 weapon or set of armor, on a 20 point system was extremely powerful gear. These were bonuses to damage and armor only and not stats.

Xsyon is not intended to be gear focused like theme park or free to play games. A 25 point stat bonus from a set of armor as substantial. Sets adding 50 to 100 to a single stat was never intended and game functions are not balanced for these type of stats.

Respectfully, I disagree with your assessment. Overpowered armor sets are not the answer to the game's economy, nor are they a driving factor. These came about when we increased the bonuses on animal parts based on age and legendary strength. The game nor the economy picked up at that point. I will support this with some data.

Since launch over 150,000 crafted items have changed ownership from the crafter to another owner. Of these, roughly 400 were overpowered armor parts. Most of these were exchanges within a tribe between friendly players. Considering trades made to provide crafters with the materials for these overpowered sets, most were also between tribe members and not a force to drive the game economy.

Regarding the specific example of damage bonuses, these are based on strength. Prior to these changes the maximum full set of strength armor that I could piece together from the database would boost strength up to 70 points. Most overpowered sets fell into the range of +25 to +40. They are not being 'nerfed' considerably.

With the changes the limit is 25 points. A 25 point strength bonus provides an additional 25% to base damage (before damage is adjusted based on swing power and other factors).

Consider a single armor part that provides the least stat bonus: shoulders.
Currently the limit is 1 stat point for a single stat.
A shoulder part with a bonus of 1 provides a base damage increase of .06 to a weapon with 6 points base damage.
This is a minor increase, but needs to be viewed in perspective.

Before this patch:

6600 shoulders in game have a strength bonus below 1
28 shoulders in game ranged from 1 to 2 strength bonus (0.06 to 0.12 damage bonus)
23 shoulders in game ranged from 2 to 3 strength bonus (0.12 to 0.18 damage bonus)
30 shoulders in game ranged from 3 to 4 strength bonus (0.18 to 0.24 damage bonus)
2 shoulders in game exceeded a bonus of 4 (slightly) (0.24+)

Applied to unarmed the current max bonus would indeed by increased by 0.02 damage.

This needs to be viewed in light that previously the max bonus was 0.08 damage, and only 2 shoulders in the entire game provided this type of bonus. In addition, shoulders have been 'nerfed' more than other armor parts, as the large armor parts provide higher bonuses than the smaller parts.

I do care about Xsyon extremely. I hope this is demonstrated by my constant dediction to Xsyon and my efforts to gather and respond to feedback such as this. We are doing our best with very limited resources to continously improve Xsyon, generate an in game economy and provide the game play that both our veterans an new players can enjoy.

Inconsistent feedback does not help our cause.

Your previous criticisms have included:
- There are no rare valuable resources in game.
- There is nothing worth trading in game. Everyone already has everything.
- No creatures are a challenge and can be killed even by a newbie using the proper tactics.

Your current statements that rare and hard earned resources were used to create the 'nerfed' armor sets directly contradicts these previous criticisms.

There is no 'slap in the face' to anyone intended.

I do wholeheartedly agree that new players should not be able to harvest and craft from creatures that provide bonuses matching max level creatures. This was a mistake that, as mentioned above, is being rectified as soon as possible.

In conclusion, these bonus reductions were necessary for stats to fall within a manageable scale. Gear should not be able to double the stats of already maxed character. If you feel that the effects of stat increases (speed or damage increase per point of increase for example) are inadequate, that is different feedback that we will consider.

Our current round of progess should finally address issues with resources and the economy while still respecting the power of veteran players.

MrDDT
07-18-2012, 02:57 AM
Let me start with 25 points of STR doesnt add 25% more base damage. It adds 12.5%.
25 Points is also cap of ALL the armor. Which means you would have to have a full set of this maxed out STR armor (which is from killing 1400HP Mutant bears which are NOT in the game anymore) to make. (Not right now because you say its bugged and right now its worse anyone with any skill can cap out making the best armor)

When you were listing the armors did you check to see how many ACTIVE players have 100 skill in either BC or Leathercrafting? Because your numbers are going to be really messed up considering few people have 100 in skills that are required to get high crafted armor. (Or were before this poorly testing and done patch)

You are asking players to trade for top $ on items that will yield them a .5% bonus to damage. Thats ZERO POINT FIVE. Or 1/2 of a percent in damage bonus. Even if you took just based 5 skill leather-crafting, and 5 skill skinning a baby bear you will get a .3 or so bonus to STR on the item, so the upgrade is soooo small. Going out and finding a legendary mutant bear that has max life then killing it all to upgrade an item from 0.3STR to 1.0STR which will give you a 0.35% bonus to damage over a total noobs armor? Come on.

Sounds like your plan isnt to balance but nerf vets so much they dont even care what they craft. I will tell you right now, +25 stat armor will not make anyone pay the amount it will be worth, heck you couldn't even sell the +80 stat armor, how are you going to sell one that's 1/3 effect? I've only sold 1 set of armor and they had to pay a LOT for it. (over 50,000 nails) Just to put it to you how hard and what its worth, I couldn't even wear these suits myself most of the time because we had to save them for the crafters, I ended up with -10ish stat armor from max because the crafters needed them first. Making 2 top end suits was near impossible, I don't even think we had 2 suits of fortitude.

On top of this, you are also changing armor so instead of specing your stats you are making it so everyone has +25 to 3 to 4 stats. So everyone will be wearing pretty much the same exact type of armor, with the same bonuses at the top end.
1) Because they stats are capped
2) Because there is no other choice



Your previous criticisms have included:
- There are no rare valuable resources in game.
- There is nothing worth trading in game. Everyone already has everything.
- No creatures are a challenge and can be killed even by a newbie using the proper tactics.

1) You removed the rare valuable resources in the game. Last I checked there is ZERO mutants. I checked today about 1 hour ago.
2) Nothing worth trading because there isnt anything anyone needs unless they are very new. I have all the recipes I need, I have all my skills trained up, and I have most of my stats so high its boring to train them up anymore. Others are starting to get to this point also. Resources are now only used for skilling after the armor nerf and before the armor nerf people didnt need armor much due to the lack of things to do with it. (Like PVP for a reason, AI was 100% broken, and it never decays)
3) Animals are harder now, so this is taken out of context. Back when I said it, I could kill them with 25 weapon skill, 30 life and a poor weapon, even harder animals like a shadowbear.



Prior to these changes the maximum full set of strength armor that I could piece together from the database would boost strength up to 70 points.

Yet I have already made pieces in game that add up to 87.34STR PRENERF.

I'm not sure how you got 70 STR but my armor isnt even using the highest skills NOR the best stat stuff. You could even get better using max mutant parts, and max skills and higher stats.



I'm missing the problem here, but hey you played so I guess you know. I guess I should just keep grinding my stats because clearly that's what you want. Who cares about armor and weapons, stats grind is the way to go.

New players getting costly gear that they can lose making them very strong, and able to compete near ungeared veteran's level? Yeah cant have that. Got to make it so new players have no chance at it, they have to grind up stats and skills for a year like a vet to get to that level.

Anyways, my rant is done. Like I said this change is unwanted by me and any vet I know. It pretty much slapped us in the face on working hard to get what we got, it was the only drive in the game for me before just to do it even if the economy was broken. Now I see no reason to log in, my toon is getting nerfed non stop, crafting skills are worthless, and economy is dead. Any challenge is gone (mutants are still not even back in the game after what? 2 weeks?) There is no drive for a vet at higher skill levels to do anything, there is no large scale anything to do. You keep nerfing it.

Xsyon
07-18-2012, 03:43 AM
I think you misunderstand the goal of these changes in progress.

If the bonus damage based on strength is an issue it can be increased. It was never before brought up as an issue and seems to be an issue now only that I am reducing out of control unintended stats.

If there are issues with the top speed, damage, skill for the top level of stats, then it should be provided as feedback. This was part of our balancing that was done with the skills and stat updates.

Top level stuff will still be top level stuff. Top level players will still be required to get these materials and craft top level items. The difference that top level won't be +100 to a stat, it will +25 with the possibility of increasing other stats and powers as well.

Grind is not the way to go, but neither is having armor sets that eliminate the need for raising stats or throwing off the balance between mid range and advanced players.

tomduril
07-18-2012, 05:26 AM
Something in a total different direction ...

I noticed after an encounter with a Rev - which I fled because crafters with +Spirit armor should not fight revenants - I went home and was killed by 2 marmots ;)

However - did you notice that the loading time for the world went up?
The last time I died/got transported - it took my computer about 20-30 seconds to load the world.
This time it took 62 seconds ... I guess it has to do with the higher animal/revenant count?
Or probably my internet connection was just mixed up?

Did anyone else experience an increase of the loading time?

Wharmaster
07-18-2012, 10:47 AM
Something in a total different direction ...

I noticed after an encounter with a Rev - which I fled because crafters with +Spirit armor should not fight revenants - I went home and was killed by 2 marmots ;)

However - did you notice that the loading time for the world went up?
The last time I died/got transported - it took my computer about 20-30 seconds to load the world.
This time it took 62 seconds ... I guess it has to do with the higher animal/revenant count?
Or probably my internet connection was just mixed up?

Did anyone else experience an increase of the loading time?

Actually, mine seems to be shorter now. And no crashing while loading lately.

MrDDT
07-18-2012, 12:20 PM
The original basis for game balance, as designed years ago, was inspired by Dungeons and Dragons. A +5 weapon or set of armor, on a 20 point system was extremely powerful gear. These were bonuses to damage and armor only and not stats. Lets just talk about D&D because you like to say how strong +5 was and you think thats on a 20 point gear system was extremely powerful gear. (Which it was)

Right now you have players getting 90 STR max STR starting. Max starting in D&D was 18 STR.
Now here where it gets weird.
90 STR = 45% more damage
18 STR = +3 damage

Now adding +5 damage (from a weapon as you say in D&D) would yeild a 166% bonus to damage compared to STR.
Now in Xsyon you want to cap this bonus from armor (I know we talking about a weapon in D&D but you made the link) so 25% bonus. Where as before I thought it was balanced at 100% bonus.

You see where the effect of armor in Xsyon after your nerf isnt even as good as what you say you want to make it like in D&D?
25% bonus vs 166% bonus.
25%=Max Xsyon bonus
166%=Max D&D bonus (from a weapon as you were saying)

What I want, I dont care how you do it is gear to be more effective so people will want to skill up, and trade, and fight hard monsters to get the mats for it.
I dont see anyone wanting to fight all these 1400HP shadowbears, getting 100 in the leather/bone crafting which takes 1000s of hours just to see a 25% bonus. No one is going to trade for that.

If its just you not wanting to see them with high numbers. You need to UNLINK them from stats. Like D&D did. D&D doesnt give you a + to STR, it gives you a straight up + to damage and to hit.

My fear is that you will try to balance out the bonus from armor, and every time you do it is linked to base stats you start messing with the balancing of base stats.
Which again is why people will feel the need to grind out base stats because it will have more effect than armor. So new players who are behind a year in base stats will feel they need to grind out for a year to get on the same level as a vet.


Key thing to walk away from this post of what I want is, before armor gave around a 100% bonus. Now it does 25% bonus.
I want the effect of armor to be back to 100% even if you swap numbers to make them look smaller or whatever, the effect needs to be strong enough for people to want to craft it. Crafting it should be hard with rare mats like it was.

unclean666
07-18-2012, 01:13 PM
Ok Hunting and crafting is what i love to do in this game and idk about all these numbers and percents from this and that and was confused about what part of this was over powered but you can throw any stat number on whatever and I really dont care ive crafted and played games that based stats on high and low numbers.What really makes it matter and what i want to see is it have an great deal of effect in my toon from high end to low and thats the fun part i get from crafting is maybe i want to run a lil faster maybe a lil longer instead or come up with a good mix of effects from the stats that suit my playing style.With the changes/nerf I dont see any change from this that is going to make me want to put in the kind of effort it takes to get to that high end.As a matter of fact the drop in my energy use from my fort suit was so drastic theres no way in hell i would ever bother to make another one and why would I when its so small of effect you wouldent even notice if someone swapped suits on me when i wasent looking? I really dont care how this is done and i love the idea of the artisan and master suits but if i cant see the change and have fun mixing it up then its not fun at all and not worth the effort.


And dont get me wrong im not looking to be OP or have high stats so i can change suits and craft high end at all.My real goal be for nerf and after animals was fixed was to put my 100 plus for suit away and build a mixed stat suit that best fit my playing style and the effects from stats is what woul;d have made it matter and thats the part that was fun for me and was my goals in the game and as a crafter. After nerf theres nothing for me there because theres lil effect from it and no reason for me to even bother.


Know whats really OP the master and artisan tools ive been trying to get limits on for as long as they have been out.

Snakepit
07-18-2012, 01:34 PM
I think you misunderstand the goal of these changes in progress.

If the bonus damage based on strength is an issue it can be increased. It was never before brought up as an issue and seems to be an issue now only that I am reducing out of control unintended stats.

If there are issues with the top speed, damage, skill for the top level of stats, then it should be provided as feedback. This was part of our balancing that was done with the skills and stat updates.

Top level stuff will still be top level stuff. Top level players will still be required to get these materials and craft top level items. The difference that top level won't be +100 to a stat, it will +25 with the possibility of increasing other stats and powers as well.

Grind is not the way to go, but neither is having armor sets that eliminate the need for raising stats or throwing off the balance between mid range and advanced players.

Hello Xsyon and DDT,

Normale i do not write much on the forum but this time i feel i need to do it. I hope you understand what i write down because i need to translate a lot. fist of all i realy think you and your people are working very hard to make Xsyon the best game it can become. No doubts about it. On the other hand, DDT point out a lot of things that realy are a problem in xsyon. Most of what he is saying i agre. The difference between me and him is that i allways like to look at the bright side of live. ( DDT you can hit me if you want) Some times it is hard but also with the problems xyon have there will be a solution. The solution will not be reached by how you 2 (xsyon and DDT) are communicate. You 2 guys are telling your thoughts but i don't see a search for a solution of the problem.

I put in more information how i think about xsyon so perspective of you 2 stories become more clear.

- revenants is a good thing developers did. I love it. Maybe some better reward when we kill them.
- i don't like that gear will have the uperhand but the low bonus gear give at the moment don't make me happy. I allmost fight better without gear then with it. gear needs to give more. Why will i buy gear if it don't mater if i wear it. So i only train my skills because they give a bonus to a stat. When i have the bonus i probaly not built gear with my skills because the low bonus it give.
- there is no market. Only some people are trading or give there stuf away because they have no values. i think it will help when you look at your totem that you can see all market orders in the area of local. I think that will be 9 zone's
- we need more scarce materials that you can find on lets say 20 small places on the map. This way we will get more transport and trade. We will get something to fight for. I don't want to turn this game in a hardcore PVP game but some PVP will be welcome.
- we need totems that want fuel when ground is expand outside the basic tribe ground quantity. I don't like how the tribe ground quantity is dun now by player numbers in tribe. Maybe we can have a god in game for confidence. This god want sacrifice. Sacrifice can be given through a totem pole. God of confidence need materials like 2 altars, 5 wine cups, 2 animals heads, ????,??? to give 2 weeks of building ground upgrade or safe ground upgrade. The materials the god needs can be build like it works in game now but then you need this scarce materials that you can find on lets say 20 small places on the map. This way people start gather in 1 tribe to boost ground and protect there scarce materials on transport. There can be more gods in game for other boost.
-can we have some leaderships skills. A system that you can fight in a group. The guy that start the group give a boost to all players. This don't have to be much 1 or 2 stats point will do it. I expect by this way more people gather for a fight, hunt or crafting.

Ok this are some things that get through my mind hope it is valuable.

We all want a good game so lets work together players and developers. Positive criticism and developers that lissen to there player base. Many contradictory messages from noobs and professionail players we will get but try to filter what matters. Developers i love xsyon game and i hope to see it grow. Xsyon have so much new things i can't find in other games let it not be lost.

Snakepit ingame name

MrDDT
07-18-2012, 02:25 PM
Ok Hunting and crafting is what i love to do in this game and idk about all these numbers and percents from this and that and was confused about what part of this was over powered but you can throw any stat number on whatever and I really dont care ive crafted and played games that based stats on high and low numbers.What really makes it matter and what i want to see is it have an great deal of effect in my toon from high end to low and thats the fun part i get from crafting is maybe i want to run a lil faster maybe a lil longer instead or come up with a good mix of effects from the stats that suit my playing style.With the changes/nerf I dont see any change from this that is going to make me want to put in the kind of effort it takes to get to that high end.As a matter of fact the drop in my energy use from my fort suit was so drastic theres no way in hell i would ever bother to make another one and why would I when its so small of effect you wouldent even notice if someone swapped suits on me when i wasent looking? I really dont care how this is done and i love the idea of the artisan and master suits but if i cant see the change and have fun mixing it up then its not fun at all and not worth the effort.


And dont get me wrong im not looking to be OP or have high stats so i can change suits and craft high end at all.My real goal be for nerf and after animals was fixed was to put my 100 plus for suit away and build a mixed stat suit that best fit my playing style and the effects from stats is what woul;d have made it matter and thats the part that was fun for me and was my goals in the game and as a crafter. After nerf theres nothing for me there because theres lil effect from it and no reason for me to even bother.


Know whats really OP the master and artisan tools ive been trying to get limits on for as long as they have been out.

These 2 posts hit the nail right on the head for me.

Unclean to me is saying the effect needs to be worth the effort (at least that's how I read it) on top of that, he want's the effect to be worth while as a whole.
I fully agree with this. I dont care what you call the bonus on the gear the effect needs to be there.

Also the other point that Unclean is making which I fully agree with is that master and artisan tools are very powerful, they can take a 40 skill crafter and make him so strong they can make the highest QL in the game.

Now I would be ok with this bonus on Master/Artisan tools IF they were much harder to get, make, use and broke very fast. Meaning if these tools allowed you to craft 2 or 3 items and would break then people would have to really choose what to make with them and not use them for everything under the sun like they are worthless.
This is sorta another topic, but ties into the armor nerf.


Hello Xsyon and DDT,

Normale i do not write much on the forum but this time i feel i need to do it. I hope you understand what i write down because i need to translate a lot. fist of all i realy think you and your people are working very hard to make Xsyon the best game it can become. No doubts about it. On the other hand, DDT point out a lot of things that realy are a problem in xsyon. Most of what he is saying i agre. The difference between me and him is that i allways like to look at the bright side of live. ( DDT you can hit me if you want) Some times it is hard but also with the problems xyon have there will be a solution. The solution will not be reached by how you 2 (xsyon and DDT) are communicate. You 2 guys are telling your thoughts but i don't see a search for a solution of the problem.

I put in more information how i think about xsyon so perspective of you 2 stories become more clear.

- revenants is a good thing developers did. I love it. Maybe some better reward when we kill them.
- i don't like that gear will have the uperhand but the low bonus gear give at the moment don't make me happy. I allmost fight better without gear then with it. gear needs to give more. Why will i buy gear if it don't mater if i wear it. So i only train my skills because they give a bonus to a stat. When i have the bonus i probaly not built gear with my skills because the low bonus it give.
- there is no market. Only some people are trading or give there stuf away because they have no values. i think it will help when you look at your totem that you can see all market orders in the area of local. I think that will be 9 zone's
- we need more scarce materials that you can find on lets say 20 small places on the map. This way we will get more transport and trade. We will get something to fight for. I don't want to turn this game in a hardcore PVP game but some PVP will be welcome.
- we need totems that want fuel when ground is expand outside the basic tribe ground quantity. I don't like how the tribe ground quantity is dun now by player numbers in tribe. Maybe we can have a god in game for confidence. This god want sacrifice. Sacrifice can be given through a totem pole. God of confidence need materials like 2 altars, 5 wine cups, 2 animals heads, ????,??? to give 2 weeks of building ground upgrade or safe ground upgrade. The materials the god needs can be build like it works in game now but then you need this scarce materials that you can find on lets say 20 small places on the map. This way people start gather in 1 tribe to boost ground and protect there scarce materials on transport. There can be more gods in game for other boost.
-can we have some leaderships skills. A system that you can fight in a group. The guy that start the group give a boost to all players. This don't have to be much 1 or 2 stats point will do it. I expect by this way more people gather for a fight, hunt or crafting.

Ok this are some things that get through my mind hope it is valuable.

We all want a good game so lets work together players and developers. Positive criticism and developers that lissen to there player base. Many contradictory messages from noobs and professionail players we will get but try to filter what matters. Developers i love xsyon game and i hope to see it grow. Xsyon have so much new things i can't find in other games let it not be lost.

Snakepit ingame name


You English isnt that great, but I agree with what you are talking about, you made many great points here and even though English is my first language I have a hard time expressing what I am thinking. I believe you said it well and it expresses what I'm thinking. This gear in game needs to be worthwhile not worthless.
People shouldnt be giving away gear to just anyone like its nothing, it should be worth something both to the person giving it away, and the person getting it. Right now even the best gear is almost no worth and surely not worth the time to make it.



Another major thing this armor nerf did which I don't believe is truly seen yet by a lot of people is it evens all the stats out on players. Instead of specing into a play style they will spec for jack of all trades. This is something I really do not like. I like making choices for my playstyle which could be totally different than someone elses.

Let me give you an example.

Dang vs MrDDT (Both Combat Specs)
Dang (AKA Unclean's alt) doesnt like AGI armor or STR armor. He went 100% FORT. He believes not only is it the best for his play style, which is worry less about dodging, not worry so much about how much each hit is doing in damage, take a hit but give a hit. FORT allows for better HP, more energy which allows him to stay in battle longer taking hits but wearing down the target. He would also wear BONE armor for the extra resistance to damage but slower movement and uses more energy.
MrDDT (my Combat toon) doesnt like FORT, I ended up with a mix of AGI and STR armor. I believe it fit my play style to be faster in attacking, and do a little more damage because I tend not to be hit, and I have manage my energy better. I make my strikes and have to dodge attacks (manually) and rest for energy when I have to chance. I liked LEATHER armor due to being lighter so I saved energy, and was forced to dodge attacks more.

In the new system this choice will not be there.
Dang (who before likes fort) will now have a +25 FORT, +25 AGI, +25 STR armor suit.
MrDDT (who likes AGI mostly with a mix of STR) will now have +25 FORT, +25 AGI, +25 STR armor suit.

Completely different playstyle due to the type of armor they are using, based on what the player liked. Now everyone will be a clone using the same 3 or 4 stats for whatever they are doing. No more choosing a playstyle.

Xsyon
07-19-2012, 12:15 PM
What I'm getting from all this feedback is that the main issue is this:

An increase of 25 stat points is not significant enough for some (many?) players (at least in regards to some of the functions these stats affect such as damage increase).

It should be significant. If a 25 point gain is not worth gaining through a set of armor, it certainly isn't worth gaining through grinding in my opinion. Further balancing the effects gained per stat point, especially gained beyond 100 (with should be considered extraordinary stats) will happen in this current round of development.

MrDDT
07-19-2012, 12:49 PM
What I'm getting from all this feedback is that the main issue is this:

An increase of 25 stat points is not significant enough for some (many?) players (at least in regards to some of the functions these stats affect such as damage increase).

It should be significant. If a 25 point gain is not worth gaining through a set of armor, it certainly isn't worth gaining through grinding in my opinion. Further balancing the effects gained per stat point, especially gained beyond 100 (with should be considered extraordinary stats) will happen in this current round of development.

To gain 10 to 12 points of a stat it will take maybe 50 hours. (10 to 12 is the diff from very very common crafted STR suits to a +25 STR suit.)
To go from a common STR suit +12ish to a +25 STR suit you need to kill MAX level animals MUTANT versions (Currently not even in game FYI). This will take 100s of man hours, on top of the fact you need max skills.

Some vs many? Can we even say many at this point for anything? Do you think "many" like Revs? When I would say people love them but there is only a few dozen people playing.


It's all stats should have equal effect. Meaning they should be wanted equally. Damage is a highly valued stat to combat players however to a scavenger its next to worthless. While to a scavenger CHA is highly valued and STR isnt valued much at all.

Also some stats have double bonuses.

STR, AGI, FORT have the most double bonus. (Both crafting, combat and everyday play) while stats like INT are next to worthless outside of crafting/gathering.

My question is what's wrong with having very high stats if you sacrifice other stats? If stats were balanced correctly (with each other not in the # of stat you could have) then getting a high focus stat shouldn't be a problem.
Why would you want to punish people for following a focus? Heck if anything you should reward players that focus.

What you are doing with your "effect over 100" is you are forcing everyone to have all the same stats. Players will now instead of focusing they will have the max bonus of mix of stats. So everyone will be clones because its stupid to focus due to the loss of effect.



Dang vs MrDDT (Both Combat Specs)
Dang (AKA Unclean's alt) doesnt like AGI armor or STR armor. He went 100% FORT. He believes not only is it the best for his play style, which is worry less about dodging, not worry so much about how much each hit is doing in damage, take a hit but give a hit. FORT allows for better HP, more energy which allows him to stay in battle longer taking hits but wearing down the target. He would also wear BONE armor for the extra resistance to damage but slower movement and uses more energy.
MrDDT (my Combat toon) doesnt like FORT, I ended up with a mix of AGI and STR armor. I believe it fit my play style to be faster in attacking, and do a little more damage because I tend not to be hit, and I have manage my energy better. I make my strikes and have to dodge attacks (manually) and rest for energy when I have to chance. I liked LEATHER armor due to being lighter so I saved energy, and was forced to dodge attacks more.

In the new system this choice will not be there.
Dang (who before likes fort) will now have a +25 FORT, +25 AGI, +25 STR armor suit.
MrDDT (who likes AGI mostly with a mix of STR) will now have +25 FORT, +25 AGI, +25 STR armor suit.

If your version makes it so these to builds are equal in effect but both are different in how they want to play I'm fine. Problem I see is what you are doing is removing choice and playstyle for "balanced" stats and skills to what you think people want or should be.

Balance the effect of EACH point, not a bell curve or something. Then let players build their toons and play how they want.

From what I'm reading here is you want to make it so that each +1 STR over 100 = .75 STR then maybe each +1 STR over 120 = .50 STR
So what you will do is just force people to have all the stats because it will give the best effect.

Xsyon
07-19-2012, 01:20 PM
I'm sorry, but you are making some incorrect assumptions.

A set of +25 in 3 stats won't be possible. Master sets will allow for more materials, thus more stat bonuses, but secondary and tertiary materials won't apply the same bonus as your primary material. My response about the stat limits above were to clarify with Riverspirit limits are currently in game.

Sets that are currently +12 will also be properly scaled when the crafting revisions are done. There is no intention to simply 'nerf' the top armor sets without balancing the rest. It's just more complicated to do so and will be done with a coming patch.

It will be much better to comment on the crafting and set revisions in game when they are ready.

MrDDT
07-19-2012, 01:40 PM
I'm sorry, but you are making some incorrect assumptions.

A set of +25 in 3 stats won't be possible. Master sets will allow for more materials, thus more stat bonuses, but secondary and tertiary materials won't apply the same bonus as your primary material. My response about the stat limits above were to clarify with Riverspirit limits are currently in game.

Sets that are currently +12 will also be properly scaled when the crafting revisions are done. There is no intention to simply 'nerf' the top armor sets without balancing the rest. It's just more complicated to do so and will be done with a coming patch.

It will be much better to comment on the crafting and set revisions in game when they are ready.


Ok, I guess we will just have to wait for them to be in game broken to comment on them. Like the 8 months of AI being broken, the months and months of no mutants we have now. Sounds like a great plan.

No need to try to figure it out before you break it more.


So back the stuff that's in game. We now have a broken crafting system that is nerfed so hard its pointless to make crafted armor. Noobs can make equal armor as a skilled crafter. Great work.

taediumvitae
07-19-2012, 04:10 PM
I totally agree with what DDT said in this thread.



Before this patch:

6600 shoulders in game have a strength bonus below 1
28 shoulders in game ranged from 1 to 2 strength bonus (0.06 to 0.12 damage bonus)
23 shoulders in game ranged from 2 to 3 strength bonus (0.12 to 0.18 damage bonus)
30 shoulders in game ranged from 3 to 4 strength bonus (0.18 to 0.24 damage bonus)
2 shoulders in game exceeded a bonus of 4 (slightly) (0.24+)

First of most of the shoulders that are ingame are just grind items, I have a few baskets of those myself, I made them from the worst possible materials just to grind my skill)

I never had a need to craft a STR suit and I haven't killed many mutated bear. (deers mostly in my parts), but it was easy (if You had 95+ hunting and leathercraft) to make +5 to single stat Shoulders (+2 fur, +3 leather - thats from old mutated parts).
+70 STR suit (bone armor with 6 leather parts) & another +10 if You used titanium elements. So +80 STR suit.
After one of the patches mutated animal parts gave up to +4 most , +6 leather/round bones.
So in theory it was possible to make +10 shoulders. (+150 STR suit MAXed pimped out titanium)

After days of hunting and searching for mutated animals I managed to make +7.59 FORT shoulder pads. (+97 FORT set)

Having good armor really made a difference back then and there was always room for improvement. It was almost impossible to get the best mats.

Now You have made regular animals harder to kill then mutants ever was (Thats good imo), but the reward (+25 to stat from legendary mutants) is hmm... not worth an effort.
Like DDT said its much easier to grind +25 in a stat than it is to get mats to craft the best suit (that You can loose). I do not even mention the skills needed to craft it.

I would like to have a reason to play the game.
Right not, with crafting nerfed there is none.

Dakeen
07-20-2012, 02:00 AM
Even though this is suppose to be about abandonment.... I know you guys are going to REALLY crap on me for this but... Honestly it was to much. When someone told me you could just make a suit and make the best weapons in the game with starting 30 dex and 40 in weapon craft I was like ok... what is the point of raising anything but leather and bone craft? More schemes thats it. So I would never become the master toolcrafter of the north because you just slip on a some armor and your golden. Yes your right. I don't know shit, I am a noob, but from over here it sounds like you all just got too used to it. Personally I would LOVE some armor that boosted stats up 25. It's like hearing a multimillionaire say he can't live on 100k a year when your only making 30k =S

MrDDT
07-20-2012, 02:33 AM
Even though this is suppose to be about abandonment.... I know you guys are going to REALLY crap on me for this but... Honestly it was to much. When someone told me you could just make a suit and make the best weapons in the game with starting 30 dex and 40 in weapon craft I was like ok... what is the point of raising anything but leather and bone craft? More schemes thats it. So I would never become the master toolcrafter of the north because you just slip on a some armor and your golden. Yes your right. I don't know shit, I am a noob, but from over here it sounds like you all just got too used to it. Personally I would LOVE some armor that boosted stats up 25. It's like hearing a multimillionaire say he can't live on 100k a year when your only making 30k =S


I think you are a bit confused.

You willing to put in about 2000 man hours to make a suit of armor that boosts you 25STR when you can spend 5 hours and make one that does 12STR?
I guess having that +13STR for 1995 man hours is worth it to some, but I dont see it being traded.

unclean666
07-20-2012, 04:45 PM
Ok last post and ill let it go.

This did not start when you boosted mutant and animal parts with age.We where making suits of all animal kinds way before that with 70 80 and i think we where up to 90 by the time that patch came so idk why all of a sudden its a extreme problem.But I can kind of see why it shouldent be that high because one of the things I did use armor bonus for was to go from craft to craft with really high stats in almost everything.After the stats and skill patch they did get even bigger numbers but i thought you all knew this and I was worried that after the stat and skill patch it would still let everyone do all and be all at high end.

But all that aside the changes from that patch never really was going to change much anyway because you dident fix Artisan and Master tools from being so OP after ive been telling you all what they can do for as long as you patched them in.....I said it even on test server and was pretty much told im a high level crafter and to get lost we know what where doing in so many words.

If you think those tools not having some kind of limit like 95 in said skill for ART and 100 skill for master then you made a big misstake because I used to trade a lot before they came a long because very few could make supreme stuff because there stats wasent set for that craft like mine was even after i would try and teach them what all had to be done there stats just wouldent let them pull it off.After the tool patch within a few days of people getting those tool recipes trade was dead and i mean DEAD.....besides art and master recipes of course.

A lot of the same can still be done today even with stat and skill change thats a lot of the reason trade dident pick up.Sure you might you might build your toon to be a master bonecrafter or leather but a lot of stuff that could have been needed by others creating trade in the game was ruined by tools because you could still use them without good stats and far from 100 skill to make a lot of supreme mats needed by crafters in almost every craft like leather straps,wood handles,cloth straps ect ect and that made your craft still not needed by other players in the game. Example of Art and master tools op...Back before Stat and skill change Unclean was not setup or skilled in bonecraft so 50ish Str 62 Bonecraft skill and the right mats and master tools was crafting supreme bone armor with no problems and ive heard even worse skill and stats getting supreme.

With all these changes you have and are doing tools will still keep it unbalanced and ive done everything I can to get you all to fix it and ive been ignored and put off everytime and thats not a slap in the face to a crafter who has wanted nothing but balance?

You say you dont want this game to be like other Theme Park Games thats gear based but Xsyon imo even with very high gear is nothing like theme park gear.This is player made gear and all the time and work done to make it should have a big pay off and be worth something in the game I mean if the gear isent worth something what did you plan to hold value?Like i said though player made gear WE made the awesome gear we use and thats what I love about the crafting in this game.As for theme park games as you said you dident want it to be like players dont even use the gear made from almost all those games they use gear from boss and mob drops thats way better then what most those games have that the player can craft in the games crafting and thats why there crafting sys sucks because its useless gear that no one wants.

All and all fix tools and please dont make the crafting like theme park games....useless.

Added after 8 Hours 53 minutes:

Added after 6 minutes:

Bins inside of tents and storage type building are still locked with permissions and you cant loot them.Opening the tent ect works fine you just cant touch the bins this isent how it should work is it?

Dakeen
07-20-2012, 06:26 PM
On topic: All the revenants in 1018 and 1019 (anywhere near Hightop Keep) that had gotten big have shrunk down and gotten really fat. Infact all of revanants i have seen lately are both fat andd short, not an exageration literally 99% or more of them are fat and none are taller than me(I think im like 170). I'm guessing they are randomized in appearance or something but I think you got a quirk in there some where. They all seemed to change over night sometime the weekend of release. First day we had one that was alot taller than any character after some of us had fought ti several times, it was alot scarier then.. now they are all little fat blobs lol.

Hodo
07-20-2012, 10:03 PM
First I would like to say.

MrDDT, your D&D math is wrong.

18 Strength does not equal +3 damage, its +4.

But I see where you and Xsyon are trying to go. I think honestly Xsyon is trying to do something and its not done yet, so your seeing part of the picture, which seems like a nerf right now. But when combined with other factors later it may make it a bit more balanced then the way you see it currently.

Give it time.

On the topic of the Revnants.

I have found they are pretty bland. Most I have run into have between 100-175HP. Few of them are really a challenge even for my horrible Club skill of 39.0. I dont think they should hit harder, but fight a bit smarter. If I am attacking one, the others in sight shouldnt stand there and watch.