Suggestion: Raise the bar on crafting!

[Tesla]

I know the devs are working on a crafting revision update. Could be already things in the works to address concerns with the economy and "everyone can do everything" syndrome. I hear that Artisan and Master Schemes will be introduced for weapon and armor similar to the way tools currently work. I have a few thoughts on the subject.

Raise the max skill level to 120 for all crafts. Requirements for making Artisan items are at least 80 skill level in the craft and 80 in the primary stat for that craft as well as high quality materials and artisan tools. Requirements for making master items are at least 100 skill level and 100 in the primary stat as well as master material and tools.

The use of artisan and master tools should have the same requirements. Credit to Dang for suggesting this before.

Also, for artisan and master crafted items, there should be a customization factor, an additional material slot to add a custom variable. An example woud be using Tar to waterproof armor for a comfort buff. Could be anything to add customization. The ability to change the appearance of items would be nice too, color most of all. We all want something that not everyone else already has.

The point is to give high level crafters new and hard to accomplish goals and reward them with highly sought after crafted items.

[KeithStone]

What's the point of raising it to 120?

and

How does this solve the everyone can craft everything problem?

Even if you raise it to 120 everyone can still craft everything to 120...

[Tesla]

The point about raising the max skill level to 120 is to set a high end range for using Master Tools, a high end range for using Master armor and Master weapon schemes. Sure, it would fine to leave it as is. But there are many players already at 100 and new Artisan and Master schemes are being introduced. Maybe the new schemes will just pop into my inventory when I log on so i dont have to work for them. But, i dont want easy mode.

The customization factor i mentioned is what I see as helping with the "everyone can craft everything" issue.

[KeithStone]

it's setup so that you still gain recipes when you are at 100, you'll still have to work to get them.

The actual skill points you have doesn't really matter, 100 could still be the high end and make it so that once you hit 80 it takes a little longer to get to 100. The point of making it so that you could still get recipes after you hit 100 I'm sure was to make it so the skill system from 1-100 wouldn't have to be reworked.

Also, that solution doesn't really provide much customization if everyone can do the same customizations. Everyone would still be able to craft everything and everyone would be able to do the same custom crafts which isn't really making it any different than it is now where everyone can do everything.

In order to solve the everyone can craft everything problem would be to make crafts more dependent on your base stats. With low bast stats for crafting, your stuff should break really fast and not have as good protections/damage etc. It needs be that your stuff is so bad that nobody would want to trade for it. This would give real crafters more worth in the game.

[unclean666]

Tesla is right about some of what he is saying Keith I dont think you even know how most of crafting works but yes one of the things I have said in the past is to make main and sub (sub really is what im talking about) have a lot more of an effect on out come of produced items so if you really want to craft at high end you would need to focus a lot more...but that was an old idea.

What I would do is raise artisan and master tool levels to only be used in said craft if the person has 90 or 95 skill for artisan and 100 skill to use master tools. I think the skills now are set way to low as if you want to be a master crafter and use master tools you should infact be 100 in that skill.Thats just one thing and I think it helps in the everyone does everything at least at high end cause your not going to be able to have 100 or even 95 at all skills anymore but those tools would also need to have a lot more effect as far as bonus and effects that are soon to come as in speed dmg ect ect.

I would also make any artisan or master recipe at least for tools and weps (armor idk because there so many parts to them) have a limited number of uses.Like if I found a Master Viper axe recipe I wount need the artisan like you do tools now but I would learn it then can only craft 5 of them from that recipe and its gone and if I wanted to craft more master viper axes I need to find or trade for another recipe.I think this would help out a lot in there being so many of everything that and no one needs anything because all you need now is the one single recipe and you can bang them out all day.

Note to use the master viper recipe you need 100 weapon crafting skill.While i know this isent the end all to solve this problem I do think its a step in the right direction while not really restricting any players because these are not your normal axes or tools we are talking about.There MASTER items and if not treated like there something special then they never will be.

[KeithStone]

I would also make any artisan or master recipe at least for tools and weps (armor idk because there so many parts to them) have a limited number of uses.Like if I found a Master Viper axe recipe I wount need the artisan like you do tools now but I would learn it then can only craft 5 of them from that recipe and its gone and if I wanted to craft more master viper axes I need to find or trade for another recipe. I think this would help out a lot in there being so many of everything that and no one needs anything because all you need now is the one single recipe and you can bang them out all day.

Note to use the master viper recipe you need 100 weapon crafting skill.While i know this isent the end all to solve this problem I do think its a step in the right direction while not really restricting any players because these are not your normal axes or tools we are talking about.There MASTER items and if not treated like there something special then they never will be.

With what you are talking about the only thing with value will be the recipes, people are not going to want to trade for tools to make the high level recipes - they'll only want the recipes themselves.

Also, this whole thing with master and artisan recipes is a bad design for the fact that it makes all other armor/weapons/tools obsolete. There should be different armors/customizations for different playstyles rather than a set of "elite recipes" to make elite gear.

[unclean666]

I do not disagree with customization at all and like i said its not an end all to fixing crafting problem of items having value but it would help.But I disagree that recipes will be only thing that would have value (that is what its like now in game with artisan and master recipes btw).Yes recipes would still hold a lot of value (as they should) but if im not a weapon crafter for example and found a master I would infact be trading it for some high end weapons from someone who was.Same goes for tools if I was a tool crafter and needed a recipe im sure theres someone out there that has it that wouldent mind getting some high end tools for it.Why isent it like this now then? because you can still use the artisan and master stuff at pretty low levels and when you got it you got it for good.

[Tesla]

Keith, you mention there should be different customizations for different playstyles. Well, I am saying the same thing. I really dont care how we get there, it doesnt have to be my customization idea. And you said earlier that crafts should be more dependent on base stats, similar to the idea in the original post about the stat requirement.

I agree with Dang for the most part. Raising the requirements for making Master items and using Master Tools. Limited use Master recipes sounds like a good improvement too.

My idea for the new high end skill range of 100-120 may not be the appropriate solution. I am just trying to think of possible ways to stimulate the economy with new crafting revisions on the way. Scarcity and rarity are powerful factors for a good economy. We dont have this now. For sure, rare and USEFUL resources would help. Master crafters should have the abilty to produce items that are in high demand because of their rarity and customizations. To be a Master crafter, you should have to focus on that craft and the associated stats. That means most of the other things you do, may be mediocre at best.

[MrDDT]

I see no reason to raise the bar on crafting, it serves no purpose. (Im sure people are going to say well you dont want to grind anymore because you are already all 100s which isnt the point it wouldnt take me long to do anything)

Why not just change the effects the 1 to 100 has to act like 1 to 120?

Next is mats is where you would need to raise the bar to get the effects you are talking about and QL level of crafted items. With a limited 100 cap in skills and mats going up to 120, it would make it so the people over spec'd (meaning using good tools and good stats and good skills) would be able to make higher than 100 (AKA Supreme). Right now there is no reason for me to have 125 in primary and secondary stats and 100 skill to make say wood handles at supreme. Why? Because I can do it at 80 skill and 75 stats. If they raise the bar on mats/crafted items this would allow the people that spec for high end stuff to get higher end stuff without having to change the skill system at all.

Dang's idea on limited number of uses for master/artisan recipes. However this would make scav stronger (which its already powerful).

[Tesla]

Thank you for your reply DDT, but you must have missed my most recent statement on the topic just above your post.

"My idea for the new high end skill range of 100-120 may not be the appropriate solution. I am just trying to think of possible ways to stimulate the economy with new crafting revisions on the way."

[MrDDT]

Thank you for your reply DDT, but you must have missed my most recent statement on the topic just above your post.

"My idea for the new high end skill range of 100-120 may not be the appropriate solution. I am just trying to think of possible ways to stimulate the economy with new crafting revisions on the way."

Read it, and figured I would reply why its a bad idea still and comment on the other stuff. You did say "may not be the appropriate" as if it was still an option thus I commented on it.

I also wanted to point out another reason not to have 120 skill is that it would make items of less value as crafters would need lower QL mats to make the best gear in the game. Much as the problem we have now with tools.

[Tesla]

I only posted here because when i first had the idea in global, folks asked me to post it in the forums. Sigh....I really don't care anymore at this point how it is done. But with the upcoming crafting update, I thought this would be the time to at least express the importance of economy once again.

If I ever post an idea again or choose to respond to any other suggestions, I will make sure it is foolproof and meets the highest expectations or suffer the inevitable wrath.

[unclean666]

Ty for posting Tesla its good to hear other peoples thoughts and ideas.No one is really right or wrong in these kind of things because there just ideas and options and good or bad I wish more people would post theres.But at the end of the day i think a lot of times a lot of agree on the basics of what its about but a lot of times it turnes into whos right whos wrong and the focus on the subject is lost.

[Limuria]

Pay no mind to any self appointed experts around here Tesla :rolleyes: Your opinions and ideas are just as relevant as anyone's. Alas I have come to the same conclusion as you and its not worth my time attempting to discuss the game on these forums. I gave up forum fighting in my early 20's

[MrDDT]

I only posted here because when i first had the idea in global, folks asked me to post it in the forums. Sigh....I really don't care anymore at this point how it is done. But with the upcoming crafting update, I thought this would be the time to at least express the importance of economy once again.

If I ever post an idea again or choose to respond to any other suggestions, I will make sure it is foolproof and meets the highest expectations or suffer the inevitable wrath.

I'm not quite sure why you getting upset about it. You had an idea, you posted it on the forums, turns out its likely not really the idea to fix one of the issues. I have these ideas all the time I talk to my friends on voice chat about it and they see things from another side I didnt think of or work out issues that cause it not to work.

Sometimes there are side effects to good idea that make those ideas not work, if you can fix the side effects the idea can be great again still. I was trying to give you another perspective on your idea why I believe (which I'm not always right) it wont be a good idea plus I through in there a tweak to the idea to maybe help it along.

I wish more people would post their ideas (even if they are not good ones) to allow others to give their thoughts on it.


Its like my totem idea taking resources. People started pointing out how it would make it more like a grind, so I had to toss in changes to fix the grind issue, then people started saying how they had issues with new players getting starting resources, so I had to do a change to add that in, at the end of the day an "ok" idea turned into a "great idea".

[GuideHael]

We don't want anyone turning away from the forum for any reason. Any input you give even with constructive criticism is always welcome. All suggestions/feedback/tweaks/additions get looked at and considered, granted not everything will make it in game but you all help things along and grow with your posts. Thanks for all the encouraging posts you all made and keep the suggestions coming.