Skills and statuses.

[znaiika]

This is main reason I will not support nor play Xsyon:
If skills and statuses decay below 80.
It is painfull enough to have decay in the first place.
I can understand items decay and structure decay but I don't undestand skills and statuses decay at all.

[MrDDT]

Skills and stats dont decay unless you train up other ones really high.

You can have 4+ skills at 100 per pool, and you can have 7 stats at 100+. Its not like they decay just over time. They only decay if you are trying to push up too much other stuff up really high.

[znaiika]

How high is the boundry? I pushed tailor over 90 and my basketry went down even when I had 30.2 in basketry.
And some skills like firebuilding, masonry and wood working should be in architecture pool.

[Willowhawk]

If you use the "Plus" and "Lock" options on the skills you do not want to go down while you are grinding other skills they will not go down. I leave the "plus" on skills I want to keep but don't use very often, and the skills I use all the time stay up on their own from use.

By using "Minus" on skill you do not care about while using those skills will also preserve the other skills you want to keep. You will gain XP but not skill. Then you can spend the XP points where you want. However be careful not to leave the minus on skills with stats associated with other skills you want to raise because it too can have an undesirable effect on associated skills by lowering or preventing the associated stats from raising.

[Azzym]

Skills and stats dont decay unless you train up other ones really high.

You can have 4+ skills at 100 per pool, and you can have 7 stats at 100+. Its not like they decay just over time. They only decay if you are trying to push up too much other stuff up really high.

I have to object because I made a small mistake recently on my char Anon. I had scavenge at 72 and that skill was my highest skill in the pool. My second largest skill was resource at 60. I really had no third skill over 5. I dumped 35 points into logging and that gave me a few levels in logging (ofc) but at the cost of reducing scavenging by 8 levels.

The mistake was obviously not locking scavenge + resource before dumping the points....

[MrDDT]

Right, you could have locked it. That was my point.

Yes skill decay, but only if you are training 4+ really high, because you can always lock the ones you want to keep.

Sorry didnt say to lock them but thats what I was talking about.

[znaiika]

I would reather see something like this.
Be able to level all skills to 80 which will never go up or down, then place two skills on +/lock to reach 100, so when I use lock on two skills then I shouldn't be able to level another skill over 80, lets say I have tailor and toolcraft at 100, and I want to swith from tailor to leather, then I would have to remove +/lock from tailor and place it on leathercraft which will enable leather to level up to 100 while tailor to decay back to 80.
The only thing is left is to determent how many points/klicks from 1 to 80 and from 80 to 100, in my opinion that could be like so, from (1 to 80) should be 10,000 points/klicks and from (80 to 100) 10,000 points/klicks, also diference on status points at 80, 90 and 100.
This way you will never have more then two skills at 100 but also will keep you buisy leveling all skills to 80.

[MrDDT]

But you cant have all yoru skills at 80 and 2 at 100. Its not what is wanted.

You can have all your skills at 30 and 2 at 100.

[znaiika]

You said one can have 4+ per pool at 100.

[MrDDT]

Yep, but if you have 4 at 100, you cant have all at 30 + 4 at 100.

You could have 2 at 100, and the other 9 at 30.

But no way no how are you going to have 9 at 80, and 2 at 100.

[znaiika]

Wanted by who? or is it pushed for?
You see this is why I think current skill system is not going to keep players playing.
You're making classes which will work in large tribe if people are willing to stand in one place forever just leveling two skills, another tribe will do the same and you end up having same problem which is "trade", because you and other tribes will have everything they need inside their own tribe, so the real problem is going to be for solo players not being able to live their own style.

Who do you think you had most trade from in the past? is it large tribes? or homesteads? That is your diference.

[MrDDT]

Wanted by who? or is it pushed for?
You see this is why I think current skill system is not going to keep players playing.
You're making classes which will work in large tribe if people are willing to stand in one place forever just leveling two skills, another tribe will do the same and you end up having same problem which is "trade", because you and other tribes will have everything they need inside their own tribe, so the real problem is going to be for solo players not being able to live their own style.

Who do you think you had most trade from in the past? is it large tribes? or homesteads? That is your diference.



I would say by bulk large tribes, but if you count per trade, for sure small ones.

Also, there is nothing stopping a solo player for making anything they want, its just not going to be everything at top of the line. Tribes will want bulk resources more than 1 set of armor, they likely want 20 sets of armor.

Also, regional resources IMO should be more enforced to make this trade with tribes and solo players more pronounced.

[znaiika]

There is a problem for solo players, unable to do higher quality plus lack of progresion, I am not saying they have to make master/ supreem quality on all skills just high quality and only two to master. all you can do right now, is level-up two skills, then what else to do other then complain?
Regional resources would work on a small map (smaler then already is now) where people have to walk a short distance, but if xsyon is going to expend 9 times? then that is going to be a big problem, even now it is a long way of walk from one side to another in order to do any traiding.

And I am sure they will be able to provide 20 armor for them selves, since they will have everything they need.

I know you're trying to make PVP happen but this is not the way to do it, the only way is to agree on total destruction of loosing tribe, but it has to be with in your "players" power to set such setings.
Regional resources is not going to help PVP happen nor trade.

[MrDDT]

Regional resources has nothing to do with PVP happening, it has to do with trade.

Why do you need to make high QL in everything PLUS 2 Supremes as a solo player?

Why do you think you are limited to 2 skills? I already said you could have 9 at 30, and 2 at master, or 4 at 100.
At the very least thats 4 skills, or you can consider it 11. On top of that, its 4 per pool, so you are talking about more like 16 (18 really) skills.


The 20 armors currently yes, they sorta do, however, maybe your tribe hunts more than they do? Maybe they have 3x the woodworkers and you have 3x the hunters. So you trade hunted goods for their wood goods.

But yes, that is a problem which is why regional resources is so good, because it promotes trade more.


I also agree with you about regonial resources on a smaller map works better, however, they plan on having faster modes of travel. Like mounts, faster carts, energy regen skills and items, and even magic.
So with a larger map, comes faster ways to move items.

Also once players build roadways, and maybe even a system like a rail system, trading will be much better as will travel.

[znaiika]

There are diferent amount of skills in each pool, so some pools have way too many skills and others have just two skills per pool, which is not helping.
I hope they don't do decay to stats that way.
I hope you are correct on regional resources, I have a doubt about it, but we will have to wait and see it happen.
When they have better transporting systems maybe that will help but not now.
And all things that could be made has to be made not found.

I think xsyon should be a total sandbox game without any restrictions on leveling skills and where people can find resources, that should be up to players how they want to trade, resources should be everywere and players should be able to level all skills and stats, or call this game free roam class based game, it's not a sandbox.
Sandbox game is you can do everything your self or with group of friends or everyone together to create an empire.
People should be able to choose how they want to play solo or not without restrictions.

[MrDDT]

If a pool only has 2 skills, then you have no issue with maxing both of those skills. So why is that a problem for you?

[znaiika]

Other pools is the problem.
By the way, why sandbox game has restrictions on what people can or can't do? isn't that should be up to players to deside how they want play?
As far as I understand it suposed to be like sandbox where you are given the whole world and tools and let you do whatever you want with that world, you wouldn't know where resources could be found, all resources should be random.
Sure enough Xsyon is not sandbox game anymore, it is another themepark game.

[MrDDT]

You allow everyone to have all the skills or all the resources, you limit other parts of sandbox, like trade and exploring, even a sense of community.
Large projects if they are easy to do, or done in a second or 2, limit other parts of the sandbox MMO. Like where you get a group of people together to accomplish a goal.

Nothing about Xsyon is theme-park in anyway, so say what you will its just not true.

What do you mean "other pool is the problem" if there is only 2 skills in a pool then you can get both of them to 100, without it effecting anything else.

If you talking about other large skill pools, well yeah, you are limited to 4 skills at 100 and no other skills or all the skills around avg level, or some other mix. But no you cant have all the skills in the game maxed out.

[znaiika]

"You allow everyone to have all the skills or all the resources, you limit other parts of sandbox, like trade and exploring, even a sense of community."

That is exactly the opposite, if you let people to farm certain spots you limit the exploring and then trading which explorers could of found and traded in for something else.

"Large projects if they are easy to do, or done in a second or 2, limit other parts of the sandbox MMO. Like where you get a group of people together to accomplish a goal."

Large projects like building a city is imposible by homestead because of a small land, that is why who want to build large city they group together to accomplish that goal or gather a group of people to kill bears or tough revs.
So there are things that needs grouping, solo players need something to do as well, at the moment solo players are limited, in a sence of progression.

[MrDDT]

"You allow everyone to have all the skills or all the resources, you limit other parts of sandbox, like trade and exploring, even a sense of community."

That is exactly the opposite, if you let people to farm certain spots you limit the exploring and then trading which explorers could of found and traded in for something else.

"Large projects if they are easy to do, or done in a second or 2, limit other parts of the sandbox MMO. Like where you get a group of people together to accomplish a goal."

Large projects like building a city is imposible by homestead because of a small land, that is why who want to build large city they group together to accomplish that goal or gather a group of people to kill bears or tough revs.
So there are things that needs grouping, solo players need something to do as well, at the moment solo players are limited, in a sence of progression.


Everyone is allow to farm any spot, that has nothing to do with limiting skills, nor making resources regonial. It just makes it so if you want say granite, you would have to travel to the north side of the map to get it. While Limestone would be in the South. People in the north can still farm the limestone or granite, but they are most likely to trade their granite for the south's limestone. Or maybe even just choose to not use limestone.

Exploring has no effect from limited skills or regional resources, if you believe it does, please explain why.
If anything it has a larger effect to want to explore to find different types of resources.

How do you plan to allow 1 person to control any size area they want for these projects if they dont limit it in some way?
You talk about how people that want to do large projects will group together, that's what I said.
Solo players have a lot to do in this game, as much if not more than large groups. Because solo players can train so many skills, they dont need very many people in their tribes nor trade much to do anything, even for the best stuff.

Can you explain why you think they are limited in progression? Other than you cant have 100 in all skills and make all the best stuff, only some of it?

[znaiika]

You know well we are not talking about limestone nor granit, there will be more important resources which are going to be most important then anything else, so that will make one tribe controling it and set imposible prices, like some people do it right now.
If it is random? then that forces to look for and then trade, no one should ever be able to farm resources in cirtain spots, in order to make trade happen.
What will makes Xsyon a themepark game?
locolized resources, limiting skills, this is what themepark games do, in themepark games you know where to go to farm for things you need, or they would have professions/classes, people should be free to choose to master all skills in a sandbox games, no limits to what they can do, some people would take time and master all skills while others would just pick some to master, like combat, not everyone will master everything, if you are reasonable at trading? you will alwas have people trading with you, because there would be more sence to trade, without spending to much time to level-up skills, if you are not reasonable? then you force people to level their skill, because that would be more easy to do than spending tons of time paying for an item they need.
Trading is all about how reasonable you are, not by leveling all skills.

How solo players are limited in progression?
By limiting skills they can master, when I master my two skills then what should I do? one thing is left is to quit playing nothing would be left to do anymore.

[MrDDT]

Why do you keep saying 2 skills, when I already told you its 4 per pool which is over 16 skills.
No one is limiting skills you can master, only how many you can master. Its a slight difference, but its important.

You are right I'm not talking about ONLY granite or limestone, I'm talking about all or even most resources.
Why would you think that tribes can control these resources? Just like now tribes can control a small amount of a resource (I have my tribe on a large junk pile but there is 1000s of junk piles in the world). So these tribes wouldnt be able to strong arm people into buying their resources, thus not able to set impossible prices, if you dont like a price. Simply go to the area (not 1 tribe area worth) and farm it, Im talking about spreading this over like 3 or even 10 zones, not like 1 little spot on the map. Which is why I said "north" which is 1/2 of the map, and "south" which is the other 1/2 of the map.

Localized resources is surely not theme park. Its actually something that deals with more of a sandbox game, but could apply to either.
There are no professions or classes in Xsyon, you can skill anything and mix and match any skills you want. UO which is a major sandbox game, you couldn't master every skill, which I think is a good thing. Granted you did have 5 chars per account.

I believe I am reasonable in trading, have you tried trading in Xsyon? Ive not seen you post anything for trade. Ive traded likely more than any other player in Xsyon.

Having people work for an item or trade, doesnt mean they wont level up a skill, what it does is promotes people to do what they like and trade for things they dont.

Like say you like hunting, and I like making armor. Well you trade me leather and bones from your hunting, and I give you high QL armor. Win win.
You do what you like (Hunting) and I do what I like (armor crafting).

Then you mix this even more with, hunters need weapons and food, and other things to hunt, while armor crafters need other things like scaven items, tools and wood resources.
You start to mix in other professions and people all do what they like.

[znaiika]

We are not talking about junk piles, in time there wouldn't be any items which could be created to be found on junk piles, you would only find scrap metals on junk piles, but more valuable metals are going to be in diferent spots, that those spots are going to be controlled and farmed, those should be random.

If I am a hunter and I come to you to trade? what would be the price of an armor and a weapon knowing that an armor and a weapon has a decay, would that trade be worth trading? or that would lead to master armor and weapon skills on my own?
If you say win win, that would depends on the situation and may not worth trading.
When I am trading, I am always looking to have some kind of an income on top of my things that I trade for, plus for my time spent.

Sandbox is where you have full freedom to do what you want with one character, if you have to make another character? then it is not a sandbox anymore it is themepark.

[MrDDT]

We are not talking about junk piles, in time there wouldn't be any items which could be created to be found on junk piles, you would only find scrap metals on junk piles, but more valuable metals are going to be in diferent spots, that those spots are going to be controlled and farmed, those should be random.

If I am a hunter and I come to you to trade? what would be the price of an armor and a weapon knowing that an armor and a weapon has a decay, would that trade be worth trading? or that would lead to master armor and weapon skills on my own?
If you say win win, that would depends on the situation and may not worth trading.
When I am trading, I am always looking to have some kind of an income on top of my things that I trade for, plus for my time spent.

Sandbox is where you have full freedom to do what you want with one character, if you have to make another character? then it is not a sandbox anymore it is themepark.


I'm talking junk piles, rocks, trees, fish, grass, scav recipes, scav items, animals, etc.
The rare stuff you are talking about isnt even in game, and if it were I would expect it to be like Chalk. Rare, sorta random, and limited areas, but not areas that are easy to control.

The price is barter system, so you would have to tell me what you are trading, the QL etc, and what type of armor you would want.
I think when people are trading they are both looking to get their worth out of it and maybe even ahead. However, you need to find the right seller and buyer.

Sandbox, is what you say, but I cant think of any sandbox that doesnt limit you in some way. Can you name one where you can do anything you want? Not even Wurm Online allows this.
Themepark has a lot more to do with being pushed into roles, or following a story/quest line to do things in game. Sandbox to me is the tools and freedom to make your own story.

[znaiika]

That is why Xsyon should change from "The ultimate sandbox MMORPG" to themepark/hybrid, or stick-up to it's name, and let players shape the world and have full freedom to do it.
Those other games are not sandbox, more like hybrids.