Feedback Request 04/19/2013 - Big Economy Patch

[Xsyon]

Please post any issues with the Big Economy Patch here.

Please read the Patch Notes (http://www.xsyon.com/showthread.php/8059-Xsyon-Patch-Notes?p=97974&viewfull=1#post97974) for a full list of improvements with this patch.

Thanks!

Update 04/22/2013

I've patched out an update to address most reported issues. Please read the Patch Notes (http://www.xsyon.com/showthread.php/8059-Xsyon-Patch-Notes?p=98020&viewfull=1#post98020) for a list of changes.

I am still reviewing a few issues:

- Revenant armor lost bonuses. This should be fixed, but I haven't confirmed that it's fixed in all cases yet.

- Creature parts not correctly applying power variable. This has been possibly fixed, but I need to review and test this further.

- Bug with multiple containers getting stuck open. If you can still reproduce this, please email exact details to bugs (bugs@notorious-games.com) . I fixed the one reproducible situation, which involved opening a building repeatedly to cause the bug.

- Quality on scavenged items will be revised.

- Encumbrance. The current reported issues are a result of a bug fix. Players should not be able to exceed their encumbrance limit. I understand the issues however and we are going to revise the weights of objects to make more sense in context of the game rather than remove the bug fix.

- Building labels. Not all buildings can be labeled. This is not a new feature, I just included it in the patch notes to be clear as there were some changes to the labeling system.

- Other suggestions are also under consideration. Thanks!

Update 04/24/2013

The following fixes are being check on the Test Server. Once I get confirmation that these are fixed I will patch them to the Main Server.

- Power factor on animal parts and components crafted from animal parts displays in tool tip. There has always been a power factor on animal components that affect stat bonuses applied to final products (armor). The power factor is based on the age and power of the creature killed.

- Welmeti Deerbone Chestplate corrected to show 1 leather required.

- Trade totem shows the name of the seller correctly.

- Trade totem allied tab shows correct prices.

- Trade totem allied tab sorting buttons work now.

- Trade items show the base display name on labeled items.

- Master armor sets require 90 quality materials.

- Artisan armor sets require 75 quality materials.

- Crafted components quality can't exceed the quality of materials used. Final products (armor, weapons, tools) quality can.

[MrDDT]

Great patch, long awaited and I can't wait to get in there and check more out.

I will edit this post as I find feedback on the current system.

There is no Chalk Tool recipe for either Scrappers or Pioneers, which is odd because Chalk is only used in crafting tailored items and Scrappers gives a bonus to tailoring.


Trade totem listing rows are all messed up. The QL isn't listed where it should be everything is shifted.

Can't remove stumps if you didn't cut the tree.

Players are reporting they can't get supreme items from scavenging while having 100+ in the 2 stats and 100 skill. Havn't tested other gathering/sorting.
Edit: Gathering resources at max skill/stats and getting 100QL is too rare, slight increase maybe by 30%.

Trading items that cause people to be overweight needs to be put back into the game. It causes way to many issues to have it the current way where you can't trade overweight.
Not able to craft while overweight is a good thing. I like how many things were made lighter also, anyway we can get monies to weigh less?


All animals give the same amount of bonus. Normal animals give .75 bonus. Mutant give 1.00. Did you mean to nerf this more?
Also no matter the age of the animal they always give the same bonus. I reported this on the test server, is this going to be change? If not what's the point of fighting older animals? I offered a suggestion about getting more resources for larger animals, this would be good to do here.

Leather Tarp recipe is broken slot for thread, (says 0/0, and requires it to craft but doesnt use any up when crafted)

Tribe list bottom right icon, when you click it has no scroll bar.

[ryanargu]

I've noticed in the patch notes it says you can label buildings. Currently I am only able to label roofs and canopies, not doors, walls or most things in our tribe area.

[Sandman]

Tree Stumps can not be destroyed.

[OrlandoKev]

Not being able to trade when either of the 2 players involved in the trade are full encumbered makes things extremely difficult and severely impedes on normal game play. I cant even use the trade feature between my two characters to sort my cloth anymore, so basically situations like cloth sorting which is already extremely too difficult to deal with has now even got harder.

This now even negates the trade feature usage in majority of common trades in general, now to do common trades, basically have to unlock baskets / carts and say give me payment then get your stuff out of the basket after.

We have increased energy consumption when encumbered and over encumbered, which makes alot of sense that way, i think blocking trades and crafting due to encumbrance is going "too far" and makes parts of game play "overly difficult" now.

The bug regarding max containers open still exists and once you get it you have to relog to clear it ( if you have 4 containers open and try to open another you get "max containers message" and now can only open 3 after that until you relog, if you get the message again before relogging, then you are limited to opening 2 containers before getting message etc)

Regarding the need for sorting feature for recipes/cloth etc, going to toss out a possible "quick fix" idea that might be able to utilize existing coding, something to the affect of allowing the use of the trade feature with a basket or something to that affect so when using, everything "traded" to the basket would be sorted as its added to the basket? remember this is just a possible "quick fix" idea. Special large baskets for recipes, maybe even cloth would be helpful as well.

21 different types of cloth thread, string, twine and the different ropes is a bit much now, would be nice to have a check box on craft window to be able to make the base products without stats for grinding purposes which is 99% of their usage anyways. Not even sure the two different types of ropes even have a use for stats anyways, so 21 different types of both now? Might make coming up with rope for construction projects quite hell once the "pre patch stock" runs runs out of game in future.

Archery showed up on my combat skills listing after patch.

Carrots are found foraging and scavenging.

You can only see what tribe a player is in "IF" you add them to your friends/foe list, it would be alot better if you could see what tribe a player is in simply by mousing over them or clicking on them.

[Cakesmith]

Hello, and jeah i love the patch and all new features :D

i had some from the alredy postet problems too, like the problem that i cant trade full encumbered and the maximum containers open thing. And Trade totem i messed up

And i wonder about suede that i cant make scraps from suede only from leather.
bigger problem is that i make fur scraps that i cant stack (maybe even other lether i have it already deletet sry:)

small animal guts are missing for thread i cant kill somuch big animals like i need.
That would make that only old player can make usefull crafts and the new player grind till they become mental issues and quit
but i love the pegs :cool:

[GuideMihr]

Thank you all the feedback so far.

We'll do our best as always :)

[unclean666]

leather bevel is listed as leather slicer in tool crafting but is listed as leather bevel in leather crafting recipes and tool comes out leather bevel when the tool is crafted.This can get confusing.

and as stated above or in bug report rev gear no longer have stats and no matter the age mutant bones come out to 1.00 etc.
I was told there a hidden type effect after you craft with them but i think that would be a real pain to try and keep up with what animals was old and younger etc.

other then that I love the patch.

[ryanargu]

This now even negates the trade feature usage in majority of common trades in general, now to do common trades, basically have to unlock baskets / carts and say give me payment then get your stuff out of the basket after.


We had an issue with this today while crafting some carts. Anesia had to remove most of the items she was carrying in order to not get the 'over encumbered' message when creating the cover for a cart. Anesia has 61 str, a lot for a crafter. Anyone with low strength may find crafting a cart impossible or at the very least frustrating.

This can get very tedious even with playing with a friend. So really this feature is negative on group play and trading.

Minor bug in Bonecraft: One of the mats for Welmeti Deerbone Chestplate requires 0/0 leather.

[MrDDT]

There is something weird with permissions on doors. I set them to Friends/Family/Tribe and tribe can't open it. I set it to Family/Tribe and tribe CAN open it. I set it to Friends/Family/Tribe/Ally and tribe CAN open it.

[MrDDT]

Doors are fixed on test.
On test bonuses are now applying, however, the math for crafting is still off.
Also all the animal leather is still set at a lower bonus than before. You have not gave us enough info to figure out what the plan is to do here. Did you mean to lower the bonus? Is the age bonus hidding?
How is the crafting bonus working because its not giving us a 1.5x bonus for primary slot, and secondary is not giving 1x, and etc etc.

Live server issues:
Trade totem is not listing who is selling all items (I think has to do with if you own the item or not)
Trade totem cost is wrong on ally window when selling stacked items. I think its doing the math wrong. IE Selling 5000 nails for 2$ each. But it lists 5000#, cost 50000000, /unit 10000

[MrDDT]

Feedback on the trade totems on live server.

Ally sales can not be sorted.
I would like to request a search by item name box much like recipe list both sales list AND ally sales. (Ally sales has a LOT of items for sale)

Distance is a good idea. But I would at least like the zone number of the items being sold.

You can craft while resting.

Crafting master items still doesnt require master mats unless its in toolcrafting. It was happening before this patch but even worse now when you consider the new master recipes.

[MrDDT]

To encourage trade I think you should remove the weight of currency or at least cut it in 1/2. For me personally it doesn't weight a lot with over 100STR. But some players feel it more than others based on their STR and carrying it could be a hard task.

Trade Totem issue. Items are being displayed that have a label with the new label name which can be very confusing and even able to scam players. Can we make it so once an item is placed on the trade totem it's default label is replaced? E.g. Trappers Handcart, could be renamed to Masters Trappers Handcart, and people would think its a 20 slot cart instead of a 5 slot cart.

[MrDDT]

Update 04/24/2013

The following fixes are being check on the Test Server. Once I get confirmation that these are fixed I will patch them to the Main Server.

- Power factor on animal parts and components crafted from animal parts displays in tool tip. There has always been a power factor on animal components that affect stat bonuses applied to final products (armor). The power factor is based on the age and power of the creature killed.

- Welmeti Deerbone Chestplate corrected to show 1 leather required.

- Trade totem shows the name of the seller correctly.

- Trade totem allied tab shows correct prices.

- Trade totem allied tab sorting buttons work now.

- Trade items show the base display name on labeled items.

- Master armor sets require 90 quality materials.

- Artisan armor sets require 75 quality materials.

- Crafted components quality can't exceed the quality of materials used. Final products (armor, weapons, tools) quality can.

Power Factor is working on parts and crafting. However, I hate this system more and more I use it. Sorting items in this game is already hard enough. Adding a 3rd/4th factor makes it 10x worse. I posted my idea before about animals age effecting how much mats you get from them. I still think this would be the best way to handle, and simply change the bonus on animals if you want to increase the bonus. Which currently you have it capped out at 1.00 bonus x 1.00 power factor from what I can see. Which is 1.00 bonus max.

Side note LEATHER is used way more than bones (its used in ALL bonecrafting and ALL leathercrafting in many slots) and only yields 1 or less leather per animal. Giving a large amount of extra bones per animal compared to animal leather. This shouldn't be this way doesn't make sense and the way the mats are set up harder to play. You have to kill over 20 bears to make a leather armor suit out of bear. Pretty sure that doesn't make sense.

Trade totem issues.
Everything you posted about trade totems is currently working as posted.

On allied tab trade totems when you click an item it doesn't give you a description of the item when you click on it.

Master and Artisan carts have not been change to require higher level of mats like tools/armor.

Planting on tribe land permissions is not working. Anyone can plant on any tribe even if they are not member's of that tribe.

[MrDDT]

Unable to trade unless you have a bin/basket/pack on your back slot. Even if you have slots open in your pouches.
Even trading a cart requires a bin/basket/pack on your back slot.

[Nezdar]

Is woodcraft intentionally nerfed? Everything in woodcraft is a component so having max skill and tools is now pointless since the item crafted is capped at the QL of the raw material. Possible forestry was also nerfed because tree QL is now lower even though our logging has increased 8 points since the patch.

Can you please explain how Foraging -> Forestry -> Logging -> Woodcraft (2 actions for most components) should play out since the QL can only go down and not be raised with higher skills, stats, and tools?

[ryanargu]

Totem upkeep for currency is too low. At this rate, currency won't be used at all to trade as nails have a much higher sink rate.
The problem is, trade totems only accept currency, making trade totems almost pointless for trading goods in the near future.

The totem bonus for going above 80% is nice, but I feel no scarcity of currency and thus no or little value for currency or the need to trade items for currency.

The upkeep for currency above 80% should decay quickly and be more in cost. It should encourage(almost force) players to trade and interact with other players.. and if they don't, they lose the bonus(not game breaking for these individuals).

I read that you're currently focusing on making a good economy in-game, the backbone of a good economy is demand for currency. Give me and others a bigger reason to trade our goods for currency.


Minor bug:
Marmot small bones only stack up to 20, where other small bones stack to 100.

[MrDDT]

I agree I have the largest tribe using 10k$ per 11 real days, and I don't feel the sink myself.

I would like to see maybe a way to get a larger bonus (instead of 15% a 25%) for 2x the cost. Also I think increasing the base cost of the bonus would be nice on homestead totems so people can't just jump around getting the bonus. Maybe make it a minimum cost of 1000$ per 11 days + 100$ per person.
This is a bonus like DangerTwig says, not game breaking, and it will help the use of currency. I think currently the only reason currency is being used now is because 4 of the larger trading tribes have agreed to back it.

[OrlandoKev]

Max Container Bug seems to be fixed, thank you. I would like to request a higher max container count if possible, when you have cart and tent open, you are limited to one basket open in each (4 total plus backpack i believe is current max, but since cart and tent also count as "one" each) it would be nice if maybe we could have a max of 6 instead of 4)

Macinaw Fish - cant eat them, they dont stack, long time "assumed bug"

Stats on pre-existing rev gear is fixed, thank you

Search feature (like we have on craft windows) for trade totem would be extremely helpful

I may not agree with the encumberance limitation on crafting (since we have energy consumption to limit u already) but am slowly adjusting to it with minimal cursing ;-), however can you please solve the encumberance limitation in regarding to trading, common trades have become a very big hassle.

Solution for sorting PLEASE, and no encumberance limitation when trying to do it. Optional feature so we can control not mixing high materials, but can do so with with all the grind materials with is the majority.

Stack sizes on most wood products was increased, wood posts and wood sheets were maybe overlooked? they still stack at 20

[Sandman]

Lamp Posts do not stack, I know this is a game breaker hehe but just saying.

[Nezdar]

Metal rods still only stack to 20, most similar items now stack higher.

[MrDDT]

Unable to sort, craft, or scavenge "Metal Rings" used in a lot of the leather-crafting.

Grass has SPI bonus on it, but its not transferring to grass thread. Messes up the usefulness of grass armor.

You are still able to get master recipes without having artisan or basic recipes. I also believe learning recipes is way to fast from grinding. In leathercrafting I've learned over 200 master recipes.

Catgut Thread does not work as a "thread" for crafting, only works in crafts that require "catgut thread"

[Nezdar]

When crafting, after an item is crafted, the selection box resets to the top of the list. This seems unnecessary and I would prefer to continue to see the item I am crafting stay on the screen and highlighted in green.

This only occurs when you do not type in the search box.

[Nezdar]

When crafting leather scraps you can only craft five at a time but they are a stackable item.

[MrDDT]

People are sometimes invisible again.

[unclean666]

Human bones have no bonus or power still....that means no one will use any of them still.

It would be cool IMO to see randomized stats and power on these when found.

[MrDDT]

I'm looking at the math on the crafting and I don't think its working right. It doesnt look like the first slot is giving a 1.5x bonus.

[MrDDT]

Not only are bonuses messed up not adding correctly, making a master bone chest is going to take 15+ guts to make.

I think someone is out to lunch if its going to take 15 animals to get 1 chest armor. We are not talking about a suit but 1 thing slot of armor with a MAX bonus of 3.75.

Also expect us to match up the power, quality and type on these guts? This is crazy.

80+ guts required for a suit of bone armor master. That's over 80 animals of the same type/power to make a suit of master. With it all having to be 90+QL.
Good luck with that. Hit me back when this is changed.

[MrDDT]

While in combat using a hot key that opens a crafting window puts you in search of that crafting window, you can't do anything because you have no mouse because you in combat mode and cant get out of combat mode.

[ryanargu]

I'd have to agree with DDT here, 15 guts for 1 piece is asking for way too much. It'll be a huge struggle for even the most adept players of the game.


I'd also like to add that i spent a long time grinding leathercraft to 100.0.
I have 101 str, 87 perc and i was using high quality tools and materials for a total of 2.5 stat points in agility from a full set of south camp gear.

I would much rather spend that time grinding skills that directly give me agil instead, and I probably would have got about same amount of agil as a permanent bonus in that time.

Either way, I think the bonuses on gear are too demanding for what you get out, I don't feel rewarded for my efforts.

[MrDDT]

With the change to animals being only a max of 1 bonus to a stat (instead of the +2 and even +3 we had before) metal/cloth is much easier to get and provides the best bonus as there is no power factor to worry about.

Why was this changed to make animal parts which are likely the most rare and hardest to get in quality and time made to be the worst bonus?

[Nezdar]

Suede scraps require leather to make. Suede can't be used.

Also, creates only one suede crap (I mean scrap) instead of 4 like other leather type scraps.

[MrDDT]

The recipes for each craft now is pretty much not using anything from other crafts. One good thing about the crafting system was that many mats were used cross crafting. "Leather" was used in bone crafting, "Cloth Straps" was used in bone crafting and leather.

I would like to see more cross crafting mats. Like how you did leather from scraps uses catgut. I think more can be done to help increase trade through cross crafting but not force it in all of the crafting parts or suits.

[unclean666]

When you kill an animal or person in the water they sink to the bottom and cant be looted or carved.

Not all the older mats are showing the power on them like leather,scraps and guts etc.

Bonecraft takes WAY to many guts to make a master suit around 86 give or take.....that is an extreme amount to make one suit.
The increased amount of bones needed for main slots and to make components was enough as you still need the increased amount in quality and power level to make a good suit.This pretty much kills bonecrafting for me because theres no way I can get that many high end guts with power quality and mostly same type of animal to make a suit.....let alone to make them to sell to other players.I have had people asking when I could make them a new suit and as it is right now it will be ready in about a year.

[Sandman]

Dirt will not stack while inside a cart, says can not discard here. EX:I have three stacks of dirt already inside a cart bin, one stack is 4 another is 2 and another is 10 and I am unable to combine them together into one stack.

[MrDDT]

Container bug when you die with containers open, it doesn't think they were ever closed. So say I had 2 open when I died. It will think I always have 2 open and give me the msg when I try to open 3 containers. Relogging fixes the issue.

[tomduril]

Dirt will not stack while inside a cart, says can not discard here. EX:I have three stacks of dirt already inside a cart bin, one stack is 4 another is 2 and another is 10 and I am unable to combine them together into one stack.

That bug has been present since the start of the carts.

A work around:
Put the bin with the dirt on your back and then move the whole bin to the cart.
You can not put the dirt directly into the bins in a cart.
Combining/Splitting dirt stacks: take the bin from the cart to your back do it there and then move back the bin to the cart ...

[MrDDT]

In Basketry the new Master Grass armors have new resources with them (Sap, Needles, Leaves) none of these have stats on them.

They should have stats else they are pretty much worthless to craft anything in grass other than looks, which you can get at a lower set.
Also grass is not carrying over the stats which makes it even worse.

[OrlandoKev]

Marmot Small Bones still stacking to 20, while all the other small bones have had stack size increased to 500

[ryanargu]

You need a bag on your back to even trade a cart.

[MrDDT]

Dying while a bin/cart/building is open locks that open and makes it so 1 of your 4 max is open but not open on your screen.

[GuideMihr]

Hello,

Yes that issue is on the bug list

Thanks

[Sandman]

I am having a problem dragging items out of the tents/carts onto the ground since the server crashed. I used to be able to a few hours ago now I can not.

[Sandman]

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[MrDDT]

Sandman I think you should start a new thread if you want to talk about concepts like that.

I think the game is working great like that. Trade and economy is more active due to this reason even with the lower population.

[OrlandoKev]

Idea -

On crafting screen, let us load tools and materials then let us mouse over the icon of the item to be crafted to see final results if we were to craft if (stats and quality) this would allow us people who choose to play with out spread sheets to be able to change around tools/mats, our stat gear etc to see how it would affect the outcome of the proposed craft.

[OrlandoKev]

Artisan Truckee Kneepad material list, shows 0/0 for plastic junk slot, changing quantity to craft does not correct his, stays at 0

[Xsyon]

Idea -

On crafting screen, let us load tools and materials then let us mouse over the icon of the item to be crafted to see final results if we were to craft if (stats and quality) this would allow us people who choose to play with out spread sheets to be able to change around tools/mats, our stat gear etc to see how it would affect the outcome of the proposed craft.

This is a good idea and will see how feasible it is do this on the client side (the information required isn't stored on the client side but could be gather with a 'request' for information). I will see.

[MrDDT]

After last mini patch, I am unable to craft without a bin on my back (even though I have room in pouches and them on)

[Snakepit]

I think its better to have one type of currentcy. This way the currentcy get value and its more clear for all players. I do know there more types of currentcy in RL but i expect that one currentcy will give trade a push in the right direction. People can still trade good for goods if they don't use currentcy.