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Mijost
05-04-2010, 10:38 AM
People keep talking about Open PvP being in the features from the start. But I have read http://www.xsyon.com/features and I can find nothing about it in there.

Is it a another hidden page like http://www.xsyon.com/controls or is it hidden only in the Forums. If its only in the Forums, I think it should be added to the main game page somewhere.

necoo
05-04-2010, 10:42 AM
the devs have clearly stated it several times in the forums... it may not be in the feature list however many features on the list would only be possible with an open pvp world, for example evil alignment... how can you be evil if you have to ask someone if you can kill them before you kill them.

Sarg
05-04-2010, 10:47 AM
Well, evil theoretically doesn't necessarily equate to murderer.

Though I'd certainly agree the devs have been up front enough about it that there's not really any doubt in this case. B)

Iron Maiden
05-04-2010, 10:48 AM
It's okay there's plenty of good tribes to choose from :) Griefers won't be a issue if you use a buddy system.

Mijost
05-04-2010, 11:13 AM
Guess my point is that is something that should not be buried in the forums, not everyone reads every forum topic before they pre-order. Along with player being able to be looted.

Guess, I'm a carebear at heart. I don't mind having zones of Open PvP, but have seen to many Open PvP games turned into gankfests. I'm not sure I would have signed up for the Prelude if I had known it was Open PvP. (To many flashbacks to running around in my undies in UO).

I never liked the idea of "Forced Grouping" either, and that is basically what you are talking about when you say hire someone to guard you while you gather.

As for Evil Alignment, I would think of things like stealing, poisoning the land, clearcutting, random terraforming peoples camps (griefing), and possibly damming rivers as being Evil.

Arcturus
05-04-2010, 11:23 AM
Mijost wrote:



As for Evil Alignment, I would think of things like stealing, poisoning the land, clearcutting, random terraforming peoples camps (griefing), and possibly damming rivers as being Evil.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that you can only terraform in your own tribe land.

Iron Maiden
05-04-2010, 11:29 AM
A while back i asked:

"1.Will cliffs be able to be made with terraforming? 2.If not will enemy's be able to walk right up a city that was build stragisticly to narrow the entry points of the city? 3. If a enemy walks into your town will they be able to ruin it by digging (once out)? I'd hate to see that sort of griefing, i hope only certain tribe members will be able build/edit things like that within the totem limits."


"1) You can make cliffs. We're testing the limits now, but impassible cliffs will definitely be possible.

2) You can limit entry points to a city. When we implement gates, tribe members can pass freely. Enemies can't.

3) No, only tribe members can terraform in a tribe's territory. We might limit it to only assigned tribe members (chosen by the leaders) (very likely that we'll do this.)"

Mijost
05-04-2010, 11:41 AM
What I am mainly trying to say here, is that whatever form of PvP (open, flagged, zoned, etc) is used in this game it should not be hidden in the forums. Needs to be stated (put an * (subject to change) if you like) on the game site.

Sarg
05-04-2010, 12:26 PM
Mijost wrote:



I never liked the idea of "Forced Grouping" either, and that is basically what you are talking about when you say hire someone to guard you while you gather.


I'm not that worried about "forced grouping" but the main issue with hiring guards is it's no fun for anyone. Sure they get a paycheck, but it means they stand around watching someone else gather for hours on end.

In what universe is that remotely interesting?

For the guard - Even grinding mobs that present no challenge to you is marginally more interesting than literally just standing around. Not to mention, your presence makes it highly unlikely that anything interesting will actually happen.

For the crafter - You have to go through the tedium of actually finding someone willing to act as guard for however long you plan to gather. Hope you're not looking to gather at an odd time zone, or your tribemates actually have something more fun to do - like watching the grass grow. You get nothing for this, in fact, it's going to cost you.

If "just bring guards" is the answer, then the devs need to have an NPC guard mechanism on the basis of fun-factor alone. Speaking as someone on the gatherer side of things, I have no problem paying for security (so long as security doesn't cost like 50% of the take), but I do have a problem asking other RL people to spend their precious gametime looking at my avatar's butt -- unless it's massively profitable for them. Guard for 2 hours, live on the take for 2 weeks type profit. Of course, that means the gatherer needs to be able to gather that sort of value in 2 hours, and that sounds economy-breaking to me.

Cunk
05-04-2010, 01:17 PM
Mijost wrote:

What I am mainly trying to say here, is that whatever form of PvP (open, flagged, zoned, etc) is used in this game it should not be hidden in the forums. Needs to be stated (put an * (subject to change) if you like) on the game site.

I don't think anyone really knows how open PVP will work in this game once it's released. I get the feeling even the devs aren't completely sure of the all the mechanics required to produce the game they have in mind. It's going to be a tricky balancing act that will probably stretch out for many months at the least.

Siko
05-04-2010, 01:18 PM
I agree that the proposed pvp ruleset for the game should be available in the features list, or on the "About" page. However, I find it odd that someone who feels strongly one way or another about pvp restrictions would preorder without doing some research first. I guess so many MMOs are made in a way that allows you to avoid pvp completely if you don't like it that it's reasonable to assume that this is the default? "I like everything listed. If there's going to be pvp, I'll participate in it if I feel like it" -> *PRE-ORDER*.

Anyway, hope you don't end up regretting your decision. Whether or not an open-pvp ruleset works for the less pvp-minded people depends as much on the community as on pvp restrictions. I'm sure even Hello Kitty Island Online has griefers, but they do have to be more creative in such a game than in one where you are free to attack anyone. Fortunately, Xsyon has a features list that might attract a lot of people who would normally avoid games with open pvp. That in itself might be enough to give the game a virtual world vibe rathar than being a 24/7 deathmatch, but unfortunately there's no way to know that until a while after launch.

Jadzia
05-04-2010, 02:43 PM
Sarg wrote:

Mijost wrote:



I never liked the idea of "Forced Grouping" either, and that is basically what you are talking about when you say hire someone to guard you while you gather.


I'm not that worried about "forced grouping" but the main issue with hiring guards is it's no fun for anyone. Sure they get a paycheck, but it means they stand around watching someone else gather for hours on end.

In what universe is that remotely interesting?

For the guard - Even grinding mobs that present no challenge to you is marginally more interesting than literally just standing around. Not to mention, your presence makes it highly unlikely that anything interesting will actually happen.

For the crafter - You have to go through the tedium of actually finding someone willing to act as guard for however long you plan to gather. Hope you're not looking to gather at an odd time zone, or your tribemates actually have something more fun to do - like watching the grass grow. You get nothing for this, in fact, it's going to cost you.

If "just bring guards" is the answer, then the devs need to have an NPC guard mechanism on the basis of fun-factor alone. Speaking as someone on the gatherer side of things, I have no problem paying for security (so long as security doesn't cost like 50% of the take), but I do have a problem asking other RL people to spend their precious gametime looking at my avatar's butt -- unless it's massively profitable for them. Guard for 2 hours, live on the take for 2 weeks type profit. Of course, that means the gatherer needs to be able to gather that sort of value in 2 hours, and that sounds economy-breaking to me.
I so agree with all of this.

necoo
05-04-2010, 03:21 PM
Jadzia wrote:

Sarg wrote:

Mijost wrote:



I never liked the idea of "Forced Grouping" either, and that is basically what you are talking about when you say hire someone to guard you while you gather.


I'm not that worried about "forced grouping" but the main issue with hiring guards is it's no fun for anyone. Sure they get a paycheck, but it means they stand around watching someone else gather for hours on end.

In what universe is that remotely interesting?

For the guard - Even grinding mobs that present no challenge to you is marginally more interesting than literally just standing around. Not to mention, your presence makes it highly unlikely that anything interesting will actually happen.

For the crafter - You have to go through the tedium of actually finding someone willing to act as guard for however long you plan to gather. Hope you're not looking to gather at an odd time zone, or your tribemates actually have something more fun to do - like watching the grass grow. You get nothing for this, in fact, it's going to cost you.

If "just bring guards" is the answer, then the devs need to have an NPC guard mechanism on the basis of fun-factor alone. Speaking as someone on the gatherer side of things, I have no problem paying for security (so long as security doesn't cost like 50% of the take), but I do have a problem asking other RL people to spend their precious gametime looking at my avatar's butt -- unless it's massively profitable for them. Guard for 2 hours, live on the take for 2 weeks type profit. Of course, that means the gatherer needs to be able to gather that sort of value in 2 hours, and that sounds economy-breaking to me.
I so agree with all of this.

... is it really necessary to post if all you are going to say is "i so agree with all of this"... it seams kind of like a waste of time... is that how you get your 500+ posts

Jadzia
05-04-2010, 03:34 PM
necoo wrote:


... is it really necessary to post if all you are going to say is "i so agree with all of this"... it seams kind of like a waste of time... is that how you get your 500+ posts
I've seen a lot of posts like "This", "+1", "Agreed" and so on...its common to show if you agree. And I think I got the 500+ posts by fighting about PvP-non PvP issues :laugh:

Diocletian
05-04-2010, 03:41 PM
/sign

Nails
05-05-2010, 03:35 AM
This system works pretty well in eve, as when one or more players are mining at an asteroid belt, the escort players are killin the npc (pirates) that turn up which gives them something to do, am just guessing that you'll get wild bears etc wandering around for the escort to amuse themselves with.

At the end the resources collected are then split between all participants, I've not found any posts yet regarding wether resources are yours or the tribes but either way you'd still be gaining resources as the escort (either your personal share or from the tribe stores).

I'm a big fan on team play so if escorting some resource gatherers helps the tribe i'd be all for spending a few hours doing that.

kiwibird
05-05-2010, 04:09 AM
Jadzia wrote:
I so agree with all of this.Diocletian wrote:
/signnecoo wrote:
[Is] it really necessary to post if all you are going to say is "i so agree with all of this"... it seams kind of like a waste of time... is that how you get your 500+ postsAnd I thought I was meant to be anal! :laugh::laugh::laugh::cheer:

On a serious note in terms of this, it is the only way to find out support for something. Currently I haven't found a "poll" solution for the forum software, so it's not like we can get peoples feed back on that. Officially at least, while we use this system, its the only way to give support.

Other forum software's are being looked at in due time. Lets hope they at least get a solution in which allows for polls, bumps (without the need to post in the thread), ratings to increase support for the thread and many other features I'm sure I have forgotten.

Back to the OP, the features list has a combat section, the Features isn't a look at everything you can do in game, just a very rushed overview of the game contents.

I guess I fail to see why this is important. Overviews of the game never provide all the details so the features list is fine as it is, if you want more information you have the ability to seek it.

jessebfox
05-05-2010, 04:58 AM
The Open PVP (with consequences) is mentioned in the faq. I think it is an indication of what kind of game it will be that there are what 120+ (guessing) things listed in features, yet pvp is not mentioned in there. It is obviously a small part of the game design. It being open, in the beginning it will be a large part of some people's gameplay, though I suspect.

There are a lot of things we don't really know about the game and how it will end up. Wait and see thing.

TheMap
05-05-2010, 06:13 AM
Sarg wrote:

Mijost wrote:



I never liked the idea of "Forced Grouping" either, and that is basically what you are talking about when you say hire someone to guard you while you gather.


I'm not that worried about "forced grouping" but the main issue with hiring guards is it's no fun for anyone. Sure they get a paycheck, but it means they stand around watching someone else gather for hours on end.

In what universe is that remotely interesting?

For the guard - Even grinding mobs that present no challenge to you is marginally more interesting than literally just standing around. Not to mention, your presence makes it highly unlikely that anything interesting will actually happen.

For the crafter - You have to go through the tedium of actually finding someone willing to act as guard for however long you plan to gather. Hope you're not looking to gather at an odd time zone, or your tribemates actually have something more fun to do - like watching the grass grow. You get nothing for this, in fact, it's going to cost you.

If "just bring guards" is the answer, then the devs need to have an NPC guard mechanism on the basis of fun-factor alone. Speaking as someone on the gatherer side of things, I have no problem paying for security (so long as security doesn't cost like 50% of the take), but I do have a problem asking other RL people to spend their precious gametime looking at my avatar's butt -- unless it's massively profitable for them. Guard for 2 hours, live on the take for 2 weeks type profit. Of course, that means the gatherer needs to be able to gather that sort of value in 2 hours, and that sounds economy-breaking to me.

See the problem here is that you are assuming that you cant have gathering if you are a fighter. And in essence that is a BIG hindrance to everything you just said.

Mijost
05-05-2010, 08:19 AM
jessebfox Wrote:
The Open PVP (with consequences) is mentioned in the faq. I think it is an indication of what kind of game it will be that there are what 120+ (guessing) things listed in features, yet pvp is not mentioned in there. It is obviously a small part of the game design. It being open, in the beginning it will be a large part of some people's gameplay, though I suspect.

Actually, this is what I was missing. Somehow that page did not load right for me, all I got was the "Ask a Question" part and none of the numbers. Thanks for pointing it out to me.

Sarg
05-05-2010, 10:07 AM
TheMap wrote:


See the problem here is that you are assuming that you cant have gathering if you are a fighter. And in essence that is a BIG hindrance to everything you just said.

Forgive me if I'm being dense here, but how does that change anything? The guard could theoretically get some gathering done himself, but assuming resource locations/nodes are fairly limited, basically all you're doing is splitting the spoils instead of handing over coin as a paycheck.

I'll grant you, it's somewhat more engaging than standing around, but someone show me the line of PvP-specced players (and lets face it, we all know to win in PvP against a dedicated PvPer you have to be one yourself ... especially when they pick the battlefield and get the element of surprise) that are looking for an opportunity to go out and gather for a couple hours. People who enjoy PvP enough to be good enough at it to actually be a decent guard are generally not going to have a lot of interest in gathering. At best, it's a job they have to do to ensure a flow of resources to their tribe ... but it's not something they're going to consider fun.

Farmerbob
05-05-2010, 04:54 PM
Sarg wrote:

TheMap wrote:


See the problem here is that you are assuming that you cant have gathering if you are a fighter. And in essence that is a BIG hindrance to everything you just said.

Forgive me if I'm being dense here, but how does that change anything? The guard could theoretically get some gathering done himself, but assuming resource locations/nodes are fairly limited, basically all you're doing is splitting the spoils instead of handing over coin as a paycheck.

I'll grant you, it's somewhat more engaging than standing around, but someone show me the line of PvP-specced players (and lets face it, we all know to win in PvP against a dedicated PvPer you have to be one yourself ... especially when they pick the battlefield and get the element of surprise) that are looking for an opportunity to go out and gather for a couple hours. People who enjoy PvP enough to be good enough at it to actually be a decent guard are generally not going to have a lot of interest in gathering. At best, it's a job they have to do to ensure a flow of resources to their tribe ... but it's not something they're going to consider fun.

Because of the sandbox nature of the game, you will be able to, and presumeably want to place your village near, or even on top of, critical resources such as junkpiles. This by itself will simplify some safety/crafting issues. Nearby resources can be cleared of cover and prepped in such a way that crafters and guards can see approaching reds or unknowns from a distance, and have time to prepare to fight or flee.

When seondary totems are available to a town, you can place secondary totems and terraform around your stone/water/whatever resources and make it possible to actually defend these locations.

This assumes that jumping is nerfed, of course, currently terraformed slopes are defensively meaningless.

There are in fact some very good PVP players who actually enjoy crafting, and HOPEFULLY, PVP will be very stat dependent, and require at least some degree of crafting or gathering to effectively raise stats. Your PVP players may WANT to cut trees and split logs, mine rock, or terraform for the stats they gain from doing so.

*shrug* too early to tell really.

Zarma
05-05-2010, 07:50 PM
For some reason people feel inclined to assume that people who pvp want to do nothing but pvp, which isn't the truth. I like to pvp, but in Wurm I've still got a slew of crafting skills. Also, if the gatherers learned to fight, they would not need guards. I don't assume that anyone is actually going to hire some one to protect them when they go on their precious berry harvest, and I doubt that anyone looking at the consequences would bother attacking the player to obtain their precious berries. Guards are more an implement that is player driver. If you're going on a long journey with loads of goods, you might hire a team of guards, and the guards would be happy to go because they're being paid and there is a chance that they'll get some PvP/PvE. The traders will be happy to hire them because the price of getting the guard will probably be less then the total value of the goods they have.

PvP may or may not be a large part of the game, and I believe that it'll be mostly decided by the player. If they want to pvp, they will probably find a way to pvp, and most likely with other people who want to pvp. It's obvious that the occasional noob might stumble a little too close to the green mist, and a crazy guy on a mutated bear comes charging out, but that just makes it worth while. It's supposed to be balance, to appeal to all varieties of players, and some people just want it all one way or all another, which just makes a game dull.

TheMap
05-06-2010, 08:22 AM
Sarg wrote:

TheMap wrote:


See the problem here is that you are assuming that you cant have gathering if you are a fighter. And in essence that is a BIG hindrance to everything you just said.

Forgive me if I'm being dense here, but how does that change anything? The guard could theoretically get some gathering done himself, but assuming resource locations/nodes are fairly limited, basically all you're doing is splitting the spoils instead of handing over coin as a paycheck.

I'll grant you, it's somewhat more engaging than standing around, but someone show me the line of PvP-specced players (and lets face it, we all know to win in PvP against a dedicated PvPer you have to be one yourself ... especially when they pick the battlefield and get the element of surprise) that are looking for an opportunity to go out and gather for a couple hours. People who enjoy PvP enough to be good enough at it to actually be a decent guard are generally not going to have a lot of interest in gathering. At best, it's a job they have to do to ensure a flow of resources to their tribe ... but it's not something they're going to consider fun.

The problem here is, unless you are handicapped and can only use one hand then you can DEFEND yourself. Everyone is allowed a fighting spec and a craft/gathering/action ability as well as anyone can pick up the 4 junk pile resources with no skill at all. EVERYONE gets fighting abilities. So you wont need a guard, turn around an defend yourself.

If this shit actually went down in real life, are you going to tell me you wouldn't have some kind of protection on yourself or a way to defend yourself while you are looking for materials? Of course you would. Learn to defend.

I have been playing MO for the past 3-4 months, even the most craft based guilds teach each other how to fight. Even the non-pk/gankers can defend themselves.

Everyone needs to stop crying like they cant do anything about getting attacked.

Sarg
05-06-2010, 09:13 AM
We're changing arguments from "just bring guards when gathering" to "become a PvPer", then?

That wasn't what I was debating and I don't see much point in doing so, as open-PvP is clearly an aspect of the game.

TheMap
05-06-2010, 09:28 AM
Sarg wrote:

We're changing arguments from "just bring guards when gathering" to "become a PvPer", then?

That wasn't what I was debating and I don't see much point in doing so, as open-PvP is clearly an aspect of the game.

You are asking for the option to hire NPC guards to protect you so you don't have to protect yourself. Do you know how silly this is? Because I can as a PVPer also hire these guards. So what is the point they just cancel each other out and it ends up me vs. you?

In the same sense, the tribe you are in will want to guard you if it means they benefit out of it. Armor/Weapons ect. This is what sandbox is all about. Figure it out, the tools and methods will be available.

Sarg
05-06-2010, 09:55 AM
Hold the phone there, my friend. I was responding to someone saying the devs didn't need to worry about a situation because gatherers should just hire guards.

My response started with "If 'just hire guards' is the answer" ... and is conditioned on not doing anything about the original issue.

And guards don't cancel each other out, guards allow the non-combatant a much better chance to escape in the fog of battle.

I have no problem asking the tribe to escort a particularly large or critical resource, but for day to day gathering? Not a chance.

Relandi
05-06-2010, 02:30 PM
A point I'd like to look at more, that seems to be glaringly overlooked.

The anti-open PvP crowd keeps using their main refrain as "I don't want to lose all my loot after hours of working"

Now, to my understanding, upon death a "good" character would only lose perhaps 1 item, out of their entire character (chosen, or at random, I dunno) - but how does losing 1 item, equate to losing your entire "day" of harvesting resources?

Clearly the PK can't pick up EVERYTHING on you - nor could he carry the large amounts you'd seemingly have on the ground, so why is this "omg I'm gunna lose entire days to PKs" mindset so common?

Or am I misunderstanding their loot mechanics?

Shit happens, count your losses and move on. A PK cannot be everywhere at once, you're bound to make several successful runs before being hit by a PK and losing that 1 item.

Okie
05-06-2010, 02:33 PM
Just stay in the safezone I dont want you going crazy when I gank ya and you go shoot up a mall or something.

Spitfire5
05-06-2010, 02:36 PM
Okie wrote:

Just stay in the safezone I dont want you going crazy when I gank ya and you go shoot up a mall or something.


This

Jadzia
05-06-2010, 02:59 PM
Relandi wrote:

A point I'd like to look at more, that seems to be glaringly overlooked.

The anti-open PvP crowd keeps using their main refrain as "I don't want to lose all my loot after hours of working"

Now, to my understanding, upon death a "good" character would only lose perhaps 1 item, out of their entire character (chosen, or at random, I dunno) - but how does losing 1 item, equate to losing your entire "day" of harvesting resources?

Clearly the PK can't pick up EVERYTHING on you - nor could he carry the large amounts you'd seemingly have on the ground, so why is this "omg I'm gunna lose entire days to PKs" mindset so common?

Or am I misunderstanding their loot mechanics?

Shit happens, count your losses and move on. A PK cannot be everywhere at once, you're bound to make several successful runs before being hit by a PK and losing that 1 item.
Yes, I think you misunderstood it. As far as I know an evil character can full loot anyone he killed. There will be a weight limit for the stuffs 1 person can carry, and a loot timer too. So probably full loot depends on how heavy stuffs the victim had, how fast the PKer can click, and the number of the PKers. More PKer can carry more and they can loot faster.

Siko
05-06-2010, 03:32 PM
Relandi wrote:

The anti-open PvP crowd keeps using their main refrain as "I don't want to lose all my loot after hours of working"
I haven't seen the "I don't want to lose all my loot after hours of working" argument all that much. In my opinion, what it comes down to for most players, is that they don't want to be forced into wasting time on something they don't want to do. That goes for all players, not just the "anti open PvP crowd". A PK doesn't want to waste time chasing players who can get away 99% of the time no matter what they do. A crafter doesn't want to spend 99% of their time taking measures to avoid being killed by bored PKs. If a player finds they spend most of their time in the game doing something they don't enjoy, he will move on to another game.

The problem is that without pvp restrictions, those that are mainly interested in non-pvp activities are at the mercy of others when it comes to enjoying the game. This is fine in a game like Darkfall or Shadowbane where open pvp is among the main selling points of the game. In Xsyon, open pvp isn't even important enough to be listed as a main feature of the game, so it would be a shame if the group of players who are mainly playing the game for open pvp (PKs in particular) are free to impose their playstyle on others, effectively chasing off most of those who are just interested in all the other features that (according to the features list) are a more important part of the game.

Just for the record, I'm not opposed to open pvp. I enjoy warfare in sandbox games a lot, and being able to attack, or be attacked anyone at any time is a kind of freedom that I'd miss if it was taken out. I want the penalties for being a murderer to be harsh enough that only those that are exceptionally good at it can get away with it for long, though. Being killed repeatedly by gangs of bored PKs who have nothing to lose by doing so is a waste of my time, regardless of whether I get looted or not.

Relandi
05-06-2010, 04:08 PM
Siko wrote:

I haven't seen the "I don't want to lose all my loot after hours of working" argument all that much.

It is most certainly there, though I may be blurring my memory between these forums and the cesspit that is MMORPG.com - it's at the foundation of most of their fears of open PvP.

Spawn campers/over the top griefers are a special breed of PKers (I dunno if I'd even call them Player Killers) and should be dealt with as such, by both "good" and "evil" players. As they drive away the players for the PKs to kill, as well they give PKs a bad name.

Perhaps because it's always been the norm for me to craft/harvest and PvP since UO, that I don't find open PvP a hindrance, but rather a blessing.

Jadzia wrote:

Yes, I think you misunderstood it. As far as I know an evil character can full loot anyone he killed. There will be a weight limit for the stuffs 1 person can carry, and a loot timer too. So probably full loot depends on how heavy stuffs the victim had, how fast the PKer can click, and the number of the PKers. More PKer can carry more and they can loot faster.

Mind letting me know where you gleaned that little tidbit of information? I can't for the life of me see anything to confirm full loot for anyone.

JCatano
05-06-2010, 04:14 PM
Right here, Relandi:

http://www.xsyon.com/forums/28-features/232-conflict-death-consequences-and-decisions

Relandi
05-06-2010, 04:14 PM
JCatano wrote:

Right here, Relandi:

http://www.xsyon.com/forums/28-features/232-conflict-death-consequences-and-decisions

Wow, I've read over that thread like 10 times (well, his post, not the thread) and managed to miss that.. Goooooooooooooo team!

Thanks. (It was the post earlier in this thread that said "carrying capacity" that made it stand out this time, lol)

EDIT: Ahh, I see what I was confusing it with - when you get into tribal warfare, the diplomacy can make it so you it's only partial looting, but that's not PKing, and thus off-topic .. but yeah.

Jadzia
05-06-2010, 04:15 PM
Siko wrote:


The problem is that without pvp restrictions, those that are mainly interested in non-pvp activities are at the mercy of others when it comes to enjoying the game.
True, thats the main problem, not looting.

@Relandi
JCatano already gave you the link, and somewhere Xsyon posted about the loot timer (I'm not sure if in that thread or in another one).

Relandi
05-06-2010, 04:19 PM
Jadzia wrote:

@Relandi
JCatano already gave you the link, and somewhere Xsyon posted about the loot timer (I'm not sure if in that thread or in another one).

Had already posted and responded to him prior to your edit, but thanks.

Which also begs the question - if there is a carrying capacity that is even relatively realistic, this is pretty much the same as my above mentioned partial looting, just at their discretion.

So long as Xsyon doesn't add an onscreen trash can ala DF to delete items instantly, then my above post stands true at it's core, they cannot be everywhere at once, and if you can't notice a group of several people approaching you, perhaps you deserved to get caught that time?

Siko wrote:

In Xsyon, open pvp isn't even important enough to be listed as a main feature of the game

I think that is a rather odd step in logic to me.

Jooky cared enough to make an entire post on the subject, as well in the features the tracking of "karma" "good" "evil" etc actions IS mentioned - that is open PvP in a nutshell, why would someone track those if you can't even commit "evil" acts?

Jadzia
05-06-2010, 06:11 PM
Relandi wrote:


Which also begs the question - if there is a carrying capacity that is even relatively realistic, this is pretty much the same as my above mentioned partial looting, just at their discretion.

So long as Xsyon doesn't add an onscreen trash can ala DF to delete items instantly, then my above post stands true at it's core, they cannot be everywhere at once, and if you can't notice a group of several people approaching you, perhaps you deserved to get caught that time?

If you read Siko's post, he points out the main problem very well. Noone has ever complained about looting on this forum.


Siko wrote:

In Xsyon, open pvp isn't even important enough to be listed as a main feature of the game

I think that is a rather odd step in logic to me.

Jooky cared enough to make an entire post on the subject, as well in the features the tracking of "karma" "good" "evil" etc actions IS mentioned - that is open PvP in a nutshell, why would someone track those if you can't even commit "evil" acts?
Its not such an odd step in logic at all. When I first found this game, there was no FAQ, no posts from Xsyon, only the feature list and the about page. Still, the preorder link was alive, encouraging people to buy the game. And not only open PvP, but PvP itself wasn't mentioned at all. And open PvP with full loot is a game breaker for a lot of people, if that is something which cannot be avoided in the game then yes, it should be mentioned on the feature page. The logic says its not the focus of the game, its something that noone has to worry about.

In another thread you said to jesseblox: "Also to state PvP will not be a focus of the game is purely arrogance on your part."
This again only shows that you are lacking knowledge about the game, he wasn't arrogant, simply quoted Virtus.

Relandi
05-06-2010, 07:36 PM
Jadzia wrote:

In another thread you said to jesseblox: "Also to state PvP will not be a focus of the game is purely arrogance on your part."
This again only shows that you are lacking knowledge about the game, he wasn't arrogant, simply quoted Virtus.

Open PvP is a core part of the game.

Virtus has never once stated (that I've read) that PvP won't be a focus - he's said it might be a lesser part, but a lesser part is still a focus..(and that lesser part comment was actually Virtus speaking about PKing, not PvP, two seperate entities) - however, that isn't even relevant to what I am discussing. You enjoy misdirecting comments and jump in at "opportune times", but don't exactly say much on key with what I am talking about.

Whether PvP is minor or major really doesn't matter as OPEN PvP is a core mechanic that is built into the entire combat system. This includes tribal warfare which IS a major part of the game (quoted on features), as well as random PvP, and PKing.

If not, we would have PvP zones and battlegrounds, such as you've hinted at in the past. We do not, and will not.

A feature does not have to be "major" to be a core - if you removed open PvP, the current Xsyon would cease to exist.

Why you want to change focus to trivialities, I dunno, so I'm going to graciously allow you to continue in monologue if you'd wish.

TL;DR - Jooky has already stated PvP will be open, whether it's major, minor, purple, yellow, is all trivial and beside the point.

Jadzia
05-06-2010, 07:50 PM
Relandi wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

In another thread you said to jesseblox: "Also to state PvP will not be a focus of the game is purely arrogance on your part."
This again only shows that you are lacking knowledge about the game, he wasn't arrogant, simply quoted Virtus.

Open PvP is a core part of the game.

Virtus has never once stated (that I've read) that PvP won't be a focus - he's said it might be a lesser part, but a lesser part is still a focus..(and that lesser part comment was actually Virtus speaking about PKing, not PvP, two seperate entities) - however, that isn't even relevant to what I am discussing. You enjoy misdirecting comments and jump in at "opportune times", but don't exactly say much on key with what I am talking about.

Whether PvP is minor or major, OPEN PvP is a core mechanic that is built into the entire combat system, this includes tribal warfare which IS a major part of the game (quoted on features).

If not, we would have PvP zones and battlegrounds, such as you've hinted at in the past. We do not, and will not.

A feature does not have to be "major" to be a core - if you removed open PvP, the current Xsyon would cease to exist.
My intention with my comment wasn't to misdirect the thread, I tried to point out that you often judge people's posts while you are not aware of the setting of the game. Open PvP is obviously a core mechanic, noone denied that, but not the focus, as Virtus did say so.


Virtus wrote:

This game, while it has PVP, is not PVP focused.
If you think its something I wrote, lol, search for the sentence on the forum.

Relandi
05-06-2010, 08:01 PM
While I said I'd allow you to finish in monologue, since you indirectly called me out here, I will reply in the mentality of showing just how you twist words.

I said PvP will not be a focus - you're trying to turn around by saying "NO IT'S NOT THE FOCUS" - I know it's not the focus, but it is a focus, and one that makes the game what it is.

My only intention is to show that open PvP is a core mechanic, as you've agreed, this conversation seemingly has no point.

Whether PvP is a (or THE, as you put it) focus is really relative to the person speaking, and won't ever come to a resolution when two people see differently. So unless you're just looking to argue, again, I see no point in this.

kiwibird
05-06-2010, 08:06 PM
This thread still continuing? Where is my key? Darn it Virtus I want my key back!

If the thread is pointless as we seemingly are starting to realise, why do we continue to run around the mulberry bush like little children trying to catch a weasel? I don't think we can catch it 'cos the weasel always goes pop!

Okie
05-06-2010, 08:16 PM
kiwibird wrote:

This thread still continuing? Where is my key? Darn it Virtus I want my key back!

If the thread is pointless as we seemingly are starting to realise, why do we continue to run around the mulberry bush like little children trying to catch a weasel? I don't think we can catch it 'cos the weasel always goes pop!

If the weasel was in a open pvp game i would just shoot it, tea bag it , and loot it.

Shirk
05-06-2010, 08:19 PM
kiwibird wrote:

If the thread is pointless as we seemingly are starting to realise, why do we continue to run around the mulberry bush like little children trying to catch a weasel? I don't think we can catch it 'cos the weasel always goes pop!

<"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzXI_ApY4dY">

JCatano
05-06-2010, 09:28 PM
PvP will be my focus.

What are you going to say about that?

(Correct. Nothing.)

Okie
05-06-2010, 10:34 PM
JCatano wrote:

PvP will be my focus.

What are you going to say about that?

(Correct. Nothing.)

Yay some1 i wont have to chase :pinch: