Feedback Request - Cart Permissions (Test Server)

[Xsyon]

The Test Server is open for testing corrections to cart permissions.The cart update was rushed out and some of the settings were incorrect. Here is how everything should work:

Cart timers:
There are two cart timers, USE and SAFETY.

The USE timer is reset whenever the cart owner uses, opens or has the cart attached. In addition, when a character logs in, all carts owned by that character on tribe land are marked actively used.

The SAFETY timer is reset every game day if the cart is on tribal land, regardless of USE. This timer is also reset when the owner uses, opens or had the cart attached.

Cart states:
Based on USE carts can be
ACTIVE
INACTIVE = 18 game days (2 real days) without use
DESERTED = 405 game days (45 real days) without use

Based on SAFETY carts can be
SAFE
ABANDONED = 135 game days (15 real days) without use and not on safe tribal land

Cart permissions:

Based on USE
Tribal carts, not USED for INACTIVE days can be moved by the tribe leader.
Tribal carts, not USED for DESERTED days can be opened and contents taken by the tribe leader.

Tribal carts are defined as:
- Any carts on tribe land, regardless of owner.
- Carts on or off tribe land belonging to a tribe member.

Based on SAFETY

Carts not on SAFE land and not ACTIVE for ABANDONED days become abandoned.

Abandoned carts can be claimed by anyone.

Carts can only be traded by the cart owner.

Owner can destroy carts.


Currently, for testing only, the time values are set as follows:
INACTIVE = 18 game days
DESERTED = 72 game days
ABANDONED = 63 game days


If any of the above requires further clarification or if any of this appears to not be working as intended, please post. Also, suggestions to improve these settings are welcome.

Thanks!

[millsdo]

The pings were steady from my current location. The carts seem to be working as advertised. I really like the new time values. They are more acceptable. I hope you will keep the new time values. All inventories seemed good and the response times were good.

[MrDDT]

I want to post how I would say, I think this might clear things up. At least for me.


Cart states:
Based on USE carts can be
ACTIVE
INACTIVE = 18 game days (2 real days) without use
DESERTED = 405 game days (45 real days) without use

Based on SAFETY carts can be
SAFE
ABANDONED = 135 game days (15 real days) without use and not on safe tribal land


How USE and SAFE work together.

Active and Safe = Carts with less than 18 game days since used, on their own tribe lands.
Only owner can move, or access it.

Active and Unsafe = Carts with less than 18 game days since used, not on their own tribe lands.
Only owner can move, or access it.

Inactive and Safe = Carts with more than 18 game days since used, on their own tribe lands.
Can be moved by their own tribe leader, can not be looted.

Inactive and Unsafe = Carts with more than 18 game days since used, not on their own tribe lands.
Can be moved if on another tribal land by that tribe leader OR the owner of the cart tribal leader can move it even if on someone else's tribe land. Can not be looted.

Abandoned and Unsafe = Carts with more than than 135 game days since used, not on their own tribe lands.
Can be claimed by anyone giving them ownership of the cart.

Deserted and Safe = Carts with more than 405 game days since used, on their own tribe lands.
Can be moved by their own tribe leader, can be looted by their tribe leaders.
Note: That carts marked as "SAFE" will never go abandoned.


Please correct me if I'm wrong in my understanding.


One question with this, is why have the unsafe/safe timer? If it changes based on game day, to a yes or no status. Why have # of days it was unsafe? Might seem a little more confusing than it needs to be with 2 timers listed.

[Ragnar]

From reading your post Xsyon, am I correct in understanding that a tribe leader may never take ownership of a tribe member's cart on safe, tribe lands? They must either eject the inactive member or move the cart off tribe lands to enable it to become abandoned? Also, is it correct that a tribe leader can move any tribe member's cart anywhere in the world after it becomes inactive, even if off tribe lands? Just trying to understand the fine points and I can't test anything requiring more than 1 tribe member.

Thanks for the update and the hard work.

[Xsyon]

Please correct me if I'm wrong in my understanding.
It's all correct with one clarification:

Inactive and Unsafe
The tribe leader of the cart owner's tribe can move the cart regardless of location: on other tribe lands or on public land. Just making sure that's clear.


One question with this, is why have the unsafe/safe timer? Why have # of days it was unsafe?
The SAFETY timer is required for a cart to become abandoned. Abandonment is on a separate timer from the inactivity timer right now.

There 'could' be one timer, but it opens up the possibility of this situation:
A player is inactive for 15 days with his cart on tribe land. The tribe leader moves the cart off tribe land and drops it so that it becomes unsafe. The cart instantly becomes unsafe, thus abandoned.


am I correct in understanding that a tribe leader may never take ownership of a tribe member's cart on safe, tribe lands? They must either eject the inactive member or move the cart off tribe lands to enable it to become abandoned?
Yes.


Also, is it correct that a tribe leader can move any tribe member's cart anywhere in the world after it becomes inactive, even if off tribe lands?
Yes.

I could allow a tribe leader to claim a cart entirely when it reaches the Deserted state, since at that point all the contents could be used. I would need to set up an additional command for this because the tribe leader could still choose at that point to just move the cart around without claiming it. Additional feedback on this situation is welcome.

[MrDDT]

The SAFETY timer is required for a cart to become abandoned. Abandonment is on a separate timer from the inactivity timer right now.

There 'could' be one timer, but it opens up the possibility of this situation:
A player is inactive for 15 days with his cart on tribe land. The tribe leader moves the cart off tribe land and drops it so that it becomes unsafe. The cart instantly becomes unsafe, thus abandoned.

I could allow a tribe leader to claim a cart entirely when it reaches the Deserted state, since at that point all the contents could be used. I would need to set up an additional command for this because the tribe leader could still choose at that point to just move the cart around without claiming it. Additional feedback on this situation is welcome.




So for a cart to become abandoned, both the use timer AND the safe timer must be over 135 game day? So in theory you could have a cart with 10 days last used, and 1000 days since last safe?

I believe the issue with the tribe leader moving it off tribe lands is going to be an issue either way. Even if just to claim the cart. I would rather see it easier to understand than worry about likely a very rare case. Really the bigger worry I would see is with players in a tribe logging back in to not be able to find their carts after 18 game days (2 real days). As a tribe leader you could simply just move their cart where the tribe member can't find it and it will be yours in a slightly longer time. (Still less than 45 days, as you could move it off tribe lands so 2 days + 15 days = 17 real days) vs 15 real days. Not a major issue IMO.

I don't think tribe leaders need to claim carts like that. If they want the cart, they can kick the player or move it off tribe lands. They can already get all the items.

[Ragnar]

Thank you for the clarification. As to the tribe leader claiming the cart when it reaches the Deserted state, if the tribe leader can use it, it makes sense to just let him assume ownership at that point. Then he could trade it to tribe members that are actually active and the cart would be an asset to the game instead of just sitting around. Gaining the ownership allows more options with the carts so it seems allowing the tribe leader to gain ownership of deserted carts without the extra step of moving it to unsafe lands seems appropriate to me. To have a tribe leader using a 20 slot cart that is owned by a player that has not logged in for like2 years just seems a bit odd. Also, if the tribe leader doesn't claim the cart, won't it stay in the Deserted state forever unless moved to an non-safe area since the owner has left game and isn't logging in to refresh it and the using of the cart by the tribe leader doesn't constitute use or refreshing?

Even though it is slightly confusing, I like the thought that went into this setup and the effort to take into effect as many various situations as possible. Nice work in my opinion.

[MrDDT]

Even though it is slightly confusing, I like the thought that went into this setup and the effort to take into effect as many various situations as possible. Nice work in my opinion.

Yes, I think these changes to carts is much welcomed.

[Xsyon]

So for a cart to become abandoned, both the use timer AND the safe timer must be over 135 game day? So in theory you could have a cart with 10 days last used, and 1000 days since last safe?

For abandonment, only the safe timer is actually checked. In theory the timers could be different with the safe timer less than the use timer. In actuality only the use timer can be greater than the safe timer, I believe. I will have to think about every possible situation.

One timer may be possible. I need to consider all possibilities again. The two timers were added at first because we're tracking two different states. However, with the changes made since this was first implemented, tracking safety as just an on / off switch might work. I'll think about it more.

[MrDDT]

Yeah, I don't think you can have a safe timer bigger than the last used timer.

Only 2 ways to reset use timer, and both would cause the safe timer to be reset also.
Logging in with a cart on your tribe lands.
Using the cart.


I did notice that opening the cart as the owner did not reset the "last used" or the "Last safe" timers. Only attaching to the cart itself.

[MrDDT]

Another idea I had was that allow non tribe members to drop carts inside other tribal areas.

If tribe leaders can move them in 2 real days, I don't see how this will be much of a problem for people now in days. Before without the current options we have now with this new patch, I can see not allowing non tribe members to drop/use carts on your tribe lands.

Do you think we can change it to allow non tribe members to use their own carts (attach and deattach) from carts on other tribal areas? I know this is also an issue of people getting stuck in other tribe areas and needing to use /unstuck or calling guides.