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View Full Version : Feedback Request 04/29/2014: Tutorial (Public Servers)



Xsyon
04-29-2014, 12:32 PM
The Tutorial Screens are now on the Public Servers!

The Tutorial Screens pop up when you enter the game. For the coming patch this will appear by default only for new characters. The Tutorial Screens can be be accessed at any time from the Help Icon and will be a useful reference for players old and new.

The current Tutorial Screens are intended to give new players a basic introduction to Xsyon. I plan to continue to add information over time.

I welcome any feedback on what you would like to see in these screens in the future.

In addition, the coming patch includes many minor improvements:

Interface
Permissions and locks combined into one panel for objects that use both.
Permissions / locks icon added to your equipped pack and pouch panels.
Revised handles on gauges.
Creature life and energy bars changed to red and green.
Added messages to eating and drinking to indicate if you are still hungry, still thirsty or over satiated.
Map Panel displays if your current tribe territory is your Home location or an Allied tribe location.
Stat Adjustment Panel displays the number of adjustments you have left.
Interface Panels save their open / closed state when you exit the game. This does not apply to crafting or construction panels.

Campfires
Campfires require fuel (firewood) to stay lit. Firewood quality determines how long the fire stays lit.
Campfires provide a 'hearth' buff which increases Life and Energy regeneration.
Campfires without fuel show as a simple ring of rocks.
Campfires properly light nearby buildings and objects.
Campfires visually improved.

Character
You can now open and close packs and pouches while resting or sleeping.
Unused combat skills removed from the skill list.

New Players
New players start with Flint and Firewood in their inventory.
New players start with an axe, knife, fishing rod and shovel in their inventory, regardless of skills chosen.
Schemes adjusted to allow new players to craft a basic set of grass armor and all necessary tools.

Foraging
Foraging tables temporarily revised to remove inedible plants. Foraging will be further revised with the Farming and Cooking systems.

Energy, Hunger and Thirst
Energy used by actions decreased.
Energy and life gain revised. Normal gain rates increased.
Gain rates affected more by hunger and thirst levels.
Buffs display for low and high hunger and thirst levels.
Hunger and Thirst should be kept at 50% for optimal energy levels.
Hunger and Thirst gauges range in color from red to green or blue. Red indicates that you need more food or water or have consumed too much.

Trade Totem
Warning messages regarding items becoming property of the tribe leader after 400 game days and expiring after 800 game days displayed when sale is placed.
Refresh button added to the Trade Totem Panel allowing owners to reset the date sold for all their items for sale and uncollected sold items.

Graphics
Construction Ghosts do not cast shadows.

Bug Fixes
Incorrect power on hunted creature parts fixed.
Mackinaw Trout weight reduced and made stackable and edible.

millsdo
04-29-2014, 12:36 PM
Great patch here. Really. Outstanding. I tested the campfires and they look and work great! I like the addition of things that make life in Xsyon easier. The eating and drinking seem to work as advertised here.

Keep up the great work!

MrDDT
04-29-2014, 03:13 PM
Sounds like some good stuff. I can't wait to test it.

RosenBlod
04-30-2014, 12:49 AM
I've been checking out the various features (apart from regeneration, I don't grind or hunt as inactive). Must say I like what I see :)

Campfire fuel indicator showing remaining hours of fire is currently showing "1 / 4 387 hours left". Each firewood I've added seems to add something like 40 hours (had been adding a few more as the fire burned down to 1 / 4).

I'd like to know when this may be implemented, since I have points in some of the removed combat skills for HP, which I'd like to decay elsewhere before then.

wastelandstoic
04-30-2014, 05:15 AM
"Unused combat skills removed from the skill list."

I have a 90 in polearm for hit point purposes and possibly some points in another unused weapon skill. Will I lose the hit points associated with this skill when they are removed? Also, will my progression in the skill be saved even though the skill is removed from the list?

Hopefully not/ hopefully so. Thanks.

Xsyon
04-30-2014, 10:09 AM
I'm planning to patch this out tonight (early morning tomorrow technically).

HP will decrease for a few characters as the unused combat skills will not be loaded or counted. The combat skills and your points will be saved in the database for the future.

MrDDT
04-30-2014, 10:40 AM
So far so good.

Any chance we can get campfires to increase HP regen more, and food / water to increase regen more?

Currently takes me about 3 mins to go from 1hp to max HP using 50% food, 50% thirst, and next to a campfire.

Moving or doing any action your HP ever regens.
Low thrist/hunger not near a campfire takes me close to 10mins to regen my HP from 1 to max.

I would also like to see increase range on the campfires.

I also believe campfires last to long based on the wood source. 40 to 50 hours for 1 piece of firewood is a very long time.

I would also like to see quality of the firewood larger effect the duration of the campfire, it seems to have little effect.

In the tutorial it talks about "Legendary" items. I've never seen these in game, is there a plan to have a new tier of items in the game? How do we get this? Can you tell us more about what this means?

The Peace server vs the War server seems to be updated with different patches, I'm not sure what the deal is with that, is this something planned to not update the War server anymore? It's missing some of the newer changes that the Peace server has.

Can we lower the weight of flint slightly? Currently it will bog people down a good bit for something most people will want to carry around.

Foraged food seems to give very very very little hunger when eating this, is this because cooking/food is coming out that will replace it? Or do you expect us to just use fish as the main food source?

thurgond
04-30-2014, 02:37 PM
Love the fires-require-firewood change. Wouldn't want to shorten the duration of a fire shortened. It would add realism, but would also add an unnecessary chore.

There is one bugged fire on the edge of my land (Zone 781 65.8/759.4). The fire appears as burning and shows Fuel 0 / 4 Ready to Light. It gives light but not the regen buff.

Do the permissions on fires mean anything? They show Private Use : Locked on tribe land and just Private Use off tribe land. I can add fuel and light fires belonging to others on my tribe land, but I am tribe leader. Off tribe land I could do anything to another person's fire, but not sure what a regular tribe member could do to a fire on tribe land.

It is easy to go from hungry/thirsty to over full. One drink from a water skin took me from barely thirsty to barely bloated. I know increasing the amount drinking directly from a stream reduced thirst, but this amount may need to be reduced some now.

Glorp
04-30-2014, 04:01 PM
mO.Om.....

Peeks out from under his rock...sort of disgruntled...

Most of what i have seen is ok and all sounds fine except for the unused combat skills being removed and the points we have in them saved and stored...till when....next year or the year after?...why not re-imburse those points so we can use them now on what they can be used on...sure...DDT has a bagillion green points so he don have a chip on his shoulder but the rest of us...oh wait...that means you want us to be pulling scav piles and grinding tailoring left and right to get green points, ahh i see. I was one of the few of a handfull who actually did the actions to get the green points and never abused the system intended. well i guess scav piles wil regen then with the terrain regen patch? Tired of seeing all these spreadsheeters trying to beat the system so they can be OP in 2 weeks then they too still quit playing. sorry but this just don settle with me.

going back under my rock...maybe if i grind Moss ill be OP next time i log in

Glorp

Glorp
04-30-2014, 04:14 PM
mO.Om

Oops...sorry let me add and clarify.

Yes i did use green points in Polearms which are not in game to help me out with stats so i didnt have to grind for weeks or pull scav cloth and sort to do tailoring quick like most of the weaklings.. I have worked honestly in game to get what i have in the way i thought it was envisioned. nothing i can do to stop the others from doing it that way. I just feel if you are going to remove something that we worked hard to get points for , we should get the points back to spend elsewhere.

Xsyon
04-30-2014, 07:54 PM
Thanks for all the feedback and findings so far. Regarding the various requests:

Need further feedback:


Any chance we can get campfires to increase HP regen more, and food / water to increase regen more?
Currently takes me about 3 mins to go from 1hp to max HP using 50% food, 50% thirst, and next to a campfire.Correct, that is the standing regeneration rate. Sitting should take about 2 minutes and sleeping should take a little over 1 minute.

What rates are you desiring or expecting? (I welcome answers from anyone on this). This is one aspect of the game where what I want and enjoy in a game is at odds with what players request. I enjoyed hp management in table top AD&D (that I played), where your full hp lasted through various encounters modified by the occasional healing spell or potion. I'd like to eventually get that feeling in Xsyon.

I realize that players come from games where hp are easily restored after each battle, or constantly replenished in the middle of battle a la Diablo. I don't like those systems. I don't find them immersive, and it's one reason why I created Xsyon.

At this point I just need to get patches out so I'm willing to adjust to what players want. I think 1 minute for a full health bar is plenty fast. What is the expectation? 30 seconds? Less?


I would also like to see increase range on the campfires.What range are you looking for?


I also believe campfires last to long based on the wood source. 40 to 50 hours for 1 piece of firewood is a very long time.To make sure this is clear, the timer is in game hours, so a fully stocked quality fire should go out in one real day.


I would also like to see quality of the firewood larger effect the duration of the campfire, it seems to have little effect.The range is from 15 to 55 game hours. I could adjust this slightly, but again, what are your (and other players) expectations?

Will be updated for the patch:

In the tutorial it talks about "Legendary" items. I've never seen these in game, is there a plan to have a new tier of items in the game? How do we get this? Can you tell us more about what this means?Yes, new tiers of items will be added. For now I am going to remove this from the Tutorial Screens.


The Peace server vs the War server seems to be updated with different patches, I'm not sure what the deal is with that, is this something planned to not update the War server anymore? It's missing some of the newer changes that the Peace server has.Both servers will be updated, of course. It's possible that one data file was not patched to both servers when the Peace server was launched. There have been no updates to either server since then.


Can we lower the weight of flint slightly?Yes. No problem. I will reduce the weight of all rocks.


Foraged food seems to give very very very little hunger when eating this, is this because cooking/food is coming out that will replace it?Yes. Cooked food will be the main source of quelling hunger.


There is one bugged fire on the edge of my land (Zone 781 65.8/759.4). The fire appears as burning and shows Fuel 0 / 4 Ready to Light. It gives light but not the regen buff.Thanks for pointing this out. Some old fires might still have lights attached to them in the database. I will clear these out when I patch the update.


Do the permissions on fires mean anything?Tribe mates should be able to use fires on tribe lands and anyone can manipulate fires off tribe lands. I'll turn off the permissions text for fires since you can't set permissions right now.


It is easy to go from hungry/thirsty to over full. One drink from a water skin took me from barely thirsty to barely bloated. I know increasing the amount drinking directly from a stream reduced thirst, but this amount may need to be reduced some now.Yes. I will reduce the amount per drink from a water skin.

Regarding combat skill points. For now the points will be saved in the database. I will think of a way to reimburse skill points but for now it's not worth while to delay this patch and the farming and cooking systems which have been delayed for far too long already.

Regarding grinding for skill points: I am aware that players use the current system to grind xp. My real intentions are for players to use the Quest system and hunting for experience rather than grind. I will increase the experience gained from both of those systems with a future patch.

Thanks for the feedback!

thurgond
04-30-2014, 11:03 PM
Yes. No problem. I will reduce the weight of all rocks.


I think the point about flint is that people will want to carry flint around with them at all times. Sometimes obsidian, chalk, crystal and feldspar might be carried a long ways back to camp, although this isn't a regular thing and seldom will large quantities be found in one trip. I think it would be good to reduce the weight of these special rocks.

Reducing the weight of standard rocks that make bricks would tend to reduce the value of carts and tribe sites close to rock sources. Right now granite, limestone and basalt rocks are slightly heavier than the equivalent brick which is good.

wastelandstoic
05-01-2014, 05:35 AM
[QUOTE=Xsyon;100546]Regarding combat skill points. For now the points will be saved in the database. I will think of a way to reimburse skill points but for now it's not worth while to delay this patch and the farming and cooking systems which have been delayed for far too long already.[QUOTE]

No arument here and I really hope there will be some kind of reimbursement in the not to distant future. There is nothing more dishearting than an improvement patch that rolls back on a considerable amount of time spent improving your character. (90 Polearms = 450 Experience points = 14 HP's = quite a bit of time.)

As far as regeneration rates go I think they are ok. A slight increase might allow a single hunter to keep up with the faster regeneration of many of the larger/mutant creatures which would be nice. This is also assuming cooking will add good buffs and eventually healing to temporarily improve regen times.

MrDDT
05-01-2014, 07:17 AM
Thanks for all the feedback and findings so far. Regarding the various requests:

Need further feedback:

Correct, that is the standing regeneration rate. Sitting should take about 2 minutes and sleeping should take a little over 1 minute.

Standing for me at 50% hunger, 50% thirst, next to a campfire is about 7 mins from 1 HP to max HP.
Sleeping for me at 50% hunger, 50% thirst, next to a campfire (Currently the fastest way to regen HP) is about 3mins from 1HP to max HP.

I think 1min while next to a campfire and optimal hunger and thirst is good. The key to me is the campfire should greatly increase the HP regen, making up 75% of the regen rate. This will make it something people want to do more often for HP regen.

I think I figured out the problem, campfire buff is not giving increase regen.




What rates are you desiring or expecting? (I welcome answers from anyone on this). This is one aspect of the game where what I want and enjoy in a game is at odds with what players request. I enjoyed hp management in table top AD&D (that I played), where your full hp lasted through various encounters modified by the occasional healing spell or potion. I'd like to eventually get that feeling in Xsyon.

I agree, I like the idea of AD&D but had many forms of healing, the best being magical. Currently Xsyon has the slowest (and easiest) form which is just waiting X amount of time.
If you were to add more healing options, like potions, special food that increased regen, skills that increased regen rate, bandages, magical, etc. Then I could understand for the current speed or even slowing it down.




What range are you looking for?

Only another meter or 2, because right now you almost have to be burning yourself in the fire to get the buff.


To make sure this is clear, the timer is in game hours, so a fully stocked quality fire should go out in one real day.

The range is from 15 to 55 game hours. I could adjust this slightly, but again, what are your (and other players) expectations?

If they should only last 1 real day (220 game hours) then I guess that's fine but some reason mine is up to over 900 game hours on this fire. Maybe a bug here.

15 to 55 game hours seems fine, seemed like everything I used then was giving it on the higher end, very hard for me to get lower QL firewood I guess.



Yes. No problem. I will reduce the weight of all rocks.

I'm not sure this is a good idea, I'm not sure that would effect things. I just mostly wanted flint to be lowered as people will likely be carrying it around more often.




Regarding grinding for skill points: I am aware that players use the current system to grind xp. My real intentions are for players to use the Quest system and hunting for experience rather than grind. I will increase the experience gained from both of those systems with a future patch.


Glad to hear this, I also hope we watch out for exploits to this system.


I also noticed a slight issue on the recent uses on the stats.
Not all actions have the same effects on stats, so seeing the uses can be a bit confusing.

Say I'm doing combat skills 1000x attacks using them. My STR/DEX/FOR (using an axe) will show
+4000 uses for STR
+1000 uses for FOR
+1000 uses for DEX

But those uses would not equal the recent uses of say 1000 crafting actions of doing bricks.
Even though bricks would display
+2000 FOR
+1000 CHA

The effect from them on stats is more than you would get out of the 4000 uses on STR from combat, due to the weighted effected of combat vs crafting.

Xsyon
05-01-2014, 02:32 PM
The Test Server is up with the following changes:

- Campfire hearth buff should be working correctly now.
- Campfire range is 5 meters (should fill a Bannaya Chief Tent).
- Flint, Obsidian, Quartz weight reduced.
- Campfire fuel fixed. It was expiring too quickly allowing campfires to be overstocked.*
- Drinking from a water skin adds 25% to thirst instead of 50%
- Display of locks / permissions on campfires removed.

*You may need to create a new campfire or stock a depleted one to test this. For the patch I will deplete all current campfires so that they need to be stocked to avoid any strange issues with old data on the campfire entities that does not match the new system.

MrDDT
05-01-2014, 03:42 PM
Thanks for the update, I will test it out soon as I can.

I love the changes/fixes, in text.

Glorp
05-01-2014, 07:39 PM
mO.Om....

Out from under my campfire rock to help finish test.

the removal of points/weapons that are not in game did not affect me as much as i thought it would.
Campfires work well as stated.
if you dont eat or drink now then you will be waiting a long time to regen.
if you eat and drink...at least 50% then regen has been increased and way increased by a campfire. maybe too much imo.

Id say Go with patch and i appologise if my earlier posts sounded aggressive.

Glorp

Xsyon
05-02-2014, 02:45 AM
The update has been patched to both Public Servers. Please continue to report any issues with the new changes here.

Thanks!

GreenSpade
05-02-2014, 03:40 PM
Just looking over the "Thirst" and "Hunger" bars and figured I'd put my input in.

I feel as if when I look at a bar that says Thirst, I'm not thinking about the max amount of water I could store in his gut, but rather how Thirsty he actually feels. So for me to see a bar at 75% being the "perfect spot", it makes me think "well my guy is still minorly thirsty, he should prob drink a bit more" Maybe a rename of this could be in order? Like Hydration? You can over-hydrate yourself by over-drinking, no problems that make sense.

I'm also looking at the buffs and noticing that you have clearly marked debuffs for what happens when your low on food or water and you have clearly marked debuffs for when you over eat or drink.. Should there not be a buff that shows you are well fed and what that means?

I mean the point of this is to make this more newb friendly so your not just getting randomly debuffed and your clueless to figure out how right? I mean thats the point of the icon, so people realize whats going on, but shouldnt it also go both ways? Since right now it "looks" like the only reason to keep eating or drinking properly is to "keep off" a debuff, rather then gain a buff of actually eating properly (like should be the reason to do it right?)

Just my two cents.

I like the fires, the rock ring looks alot nicer then the past ones and the fire itself is a nice update :)


mO.Om

Oops...sorry let me add and clarify.

Yes i did use green points in Polearms which are not in game to help me out with stats so i didnt have to grind for weeks or pull scav cloth and sort to do tailoring quick like most of the weaklings.. I have worked honestly in game to get what i have in the way i thought it was envisioned. nothing i can do to stop the others from doing it that way. I just feel if you are going to remove something that we worked hard to get points for , we should get the points back to spend elsewhere.

I think alot of us pumped green points into polearms and other skills to gain the stats they where worth, so I've gota agree with glorp here in saying if your going to remove that we should at least get our green points back, or be able to passively grandfather those stats to keep them , as in the skill/stats are still there but you just cant see/add to them anymore (if at all possible)

GreenSpade
05-02-2014, 03:56 PM
I think bandages for health healing could work out really well as a usable item. Could toss it in with tailoring or make a new skill class with it like a medicine man class or something, where you could take different herbs with mortar and pestle and make different healing pastes or oils that you could use in combination with clothe (maybe tailoring) bandages or strips of clothe and gases to combine with these pastes into something like a oversized band-aid for full limb use, or smaller minor ones for lower level people to use, for less regain. Could have like a crafting motion while using it so you cant spam it in combat, maybe have it so if you try to craft it and get hit, your interupted or something.

Riverspirit
05-02-2014, 09:48 PM
I think that being hungry or thirsty for 25% of your bar and being stuffed and too much drink for 25% of your bar is excessive. I think they should both be 10%.

GreenSpade
05-04-2014, 06:56 PM
I agree, i think 25% is too high as well, I think something in the 10-15 range would be good.

MrDDT
05-05-2014, 08:08 AM
I would rather see it a sliding scale. So 50% mark would be 200%, regen, 0%/100% would be 50% regen. Each movement is 3% change.