Attention Xyon, "cart griefing".

[znaiika]

We have a cart griefing, by placing cart at someones tribe and tribe leader can't move until timer runs-out, which can be reset just before it's deadline, I think tribe leader should be able to move/loot/change ownership/destroy/disassemble any cart that was left unintended after 30 minutes of real time, and one hour of real time outside tribe.

[MrDDT]

I think that is excessive. If someone is using this tactic you can call a guide to help.

I think it's unsafe to allow leaders that much control over other peoples stuff in tribe and Xsyon has been working toward making it so leaders have less control over other peoples stuff so people will feel safe in another tribe.

I think the changes to the carts are more than fine and still see no reason for a change.

[znaiika]

I think 30 minutes is enough time to do all the businesses and not leaving cart unintended.
Xsyon could also give an option for tribe leader to divide peace of land for it's citizens, then you wont have that kind of problem with safety.

[FiveHorse]

Znaiika I like the concept you suggested, however I'd suggest 1 week real time before a tribe leader could take action on a non-tribe cart. Things happen like a computer component fails and has to be repaired, a player or his/her family may be having some real situation to deal with, etc.

Also, unless there's a reason that I'm not seeing, I'd suggest that this be limited to tribe land only.

[znaiika]

1 week is still a good way to grief.
30 minutes is enough time to do things and log off with a cart if you don't have time to get back to your place.

[FiveHorse]

People who grief will always be around & will continue to find the means to grief no matter what is done to prevent it.

That being said, in my short time with Xsyon so far I have seen many more helpful and congenial players than griefers.

Such a short time of 30 minutes seems like it would have the potential to punish more good players than griefers.

This also could could lead to tribes locking their gates and greif a player by not giving him/her access to their cart that was left under legitimate circumstances...

[znaiika]

At least if there is a timer like 30 minutes people won't leave their carts around they would take their carts with them.
If I have to come to someone else tribe for whatever reason I won't leave my cart there.
You want your cart to be safe? don't leave it at someone else tribe, simple as that.

[FiveHorse]

Your replies seem less like a discussion & more like you're settled on the specificity of a 30 minute timer for the cart. Any extenuating circumstances seem irrelevant to you.

I have to say that a constructive discussion of your proposal is difficult at the least. Until you can address the problems and situations that have been brought forward in my replies....I think we're done here.

I cannot support your idea in the form you're proposing.

[MrDDT]

Let me explain another way that 30mins can be abused to grief people's carts.

If I leave my cart out in the world, it is currently protected for a short time (2 real days or 18 game days).
If there were a 30min timer. People could see a cart, drop a totem on it, wait 30mins and take the cart to another tribe to loot it once the other timer goes up to own it.

30mins is a very short and does not help with anything. If you are having a problem where a cart is in the way and you can't wait the 2 real days to move it. Then contact a guide.

[znaiika]

Like I said, people reset timer on a cart and leave it before timer runs out, and they can do that over and over because timer is way too long, 30 minutes would make them think twice not to leave their carts unintended.
The way I see it you don't need ten carts at one time to do anything, people loot decayed tribes they bring several carts over and leave them there, you drop totem on top. they come back and just keep on resetting timer, leaving carts behind.
Because it's a safest way to keep their loot, and they can take their loot whenever they want, no hurry.
You can ask Xsyon to make an option to rent/land one of your storage building for your citizens, so you don't have that problem with safety.

[MrDDT]

Renting was set to come into the game it's not there yet.

But I think it's silly that you think 2 real days is to short to have a cart in your way. If they reset the timer over and over, again simply contact a guide and report it.

Heck you could even block it up with your own carts and the person would lose their cart. You could even wall it in if you wanted.
30mins is much to fast and just crazy. One of your tribe members couldnt even go eat dinner and comeback and their cart could be taken/moved.

What you are talking about is a rare problem and it deals with griefing. There are many ways to grief even with a 30min timer. Griefing is not allowed and fitting the rules to stop all forms of griefing makes the game limited in many other ways.
This is also one of the reasons why PVE safeties allow more griefing than on the PVP.

Anyways, I think 30mins might as well be 0mins, which doesnt make sense. People living in other tribes need to have things that are safe from the tribe leaders.

[unclean666]

Sounds more like you want to loot someones carts then you want to prevent griefing.If it is not broke don't fix it.

[znaiika]

2 real days is way too long for carts that are left unintended.

[znaiika]

another copy

[GreenSpade]

I don't agree with this at all.

I feel that your using the word griefing too lightly and trying to scare us like ebola into voteing for a 30 min timer that no one wants since it is more likely to cause grief then leaving things the way they are.

Its really disheartening to see people give their opinions here and you shrug them off as if you know better and you've done the research to know that 30 mins is the exact perfect time to use.

Personally I feel the timers are fine on carts, in fact, I lose the majority of carts I leave outside of my tribe due to how effective it is. I feel your suggestion to have 30 mins would alow someone to drop a totem on any random cart, even one just barely outside of your tribe boarders, then drive it all the way home to their main tribe and lock it up in a room somewhere till they can fully loot it. Would be easy to do and would be more of a "grief" then what your suggesting by just leaving someones cart on someone else's land.

I think your so tunnel visioned on what you want and your not willing to listen to anyone else or even logical reason.

ddt brings up a good point too, pve alows for more griefing then pvp since players are not actually able to do anything about it, the only thing they can do is complain to a guide and hope they do something about someone cutting their trees or whatever else (as if editing the world in a open world game is a griefing problem, but people DO report stupid shit like even trees on pve cuz you can't do something about it yourself)

[znaiika]

Like I said, give tribe leader an option to give away/land or rent buildings or peace of land, and your safety issue is solved, but cart do need to have short timer so people won't leave carts all over place unintended.
You only need one cart with you all the time, you simply can't haul ten carts at one giving time.
People raid decayed tribes place ten carts and loot the whole place at once, since they can leave their carts for a long time and no one can loot their carts, they don't give anyone else a chance to loot, because they have tons of carts at disposal.
Now tell me, who is a grieffer now?
I am sure Xsyon can also add an option for tribe leader to grant permission to anyone to leave their cart in a tribe, add a timer so tribe leader won't cancel that permission ahead of time, could be one day, month or for a year at a time, this will grant all the safety a cart holder needed, but not in the open.
And if 30 minutes is too short? give it 1 real hour, for cart to be moved.

[GuideForcas]

The settings for carts, including timing, was thoroughly tested and player feedback was requested and weighed in final setting determination fully. There is virtually no way to set up any aspect of a game that can't be used by one player to upset another player in some way. A 30 minute timer is very unrealistic. It would mean carts would be lost during server maintenance and other issues of that nature.

There are many ways to protect your tribal lands already built into the game. The main ones that come quickly to mind are walls and gates. If you secure your tribe area, someone from outside your tribe can't get in to drop a cart and would be hard pressed to repeatedly get in to refresh it unless they dedicated that character to that one action by logging out in your tribe. If that is the case, we as Guides would gladly deal with the issue as that is obviously griefing and against the Terms of Service.

Carts are designed to be as safe a storage device for a player as possible while still being managed easily by tribe leaders. Changes were made to ensure a tribe leader could deal with carts left even by tribe members that have become inactive in a short time period.

The issues with control and parsing up of tribe land under various taskings, uses and timings is a very complex coding issue and one that, at this point, isn't on the horizon and really doesn't seem to be needed in Xsyon, yet.

If you are having an issue with someone griefing your tribe with a cart, please submit a trouble ticket and I will be more than happy to deal with the issue promptly.

That said, we do appreciate your input and the input of all our players and appreciate each of you for being a part of Xsyon. Please continue to express your opinions and suggestions for improving Xsyon. The staff does read the forums and take into account the concepts, suggestions and issues posted by the players.