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Xsyon
01-30-2015, 07:12 PM
The Test Server is open the public with changes to the construction system ready for testing.

This thread is for reporting any technical problems encountered with these upcoming changes.

Here is a list of changes:

Placement and Movement
- Architecture system revised to allow for proper multi-story construction.
- Revised construction move panel allows for vertical movement.
- Construction move panel allows for turning snap to ground and floors on or off.
- Distance moved per click adjustable between 0.1 and 1.0 meters.
- Speed of construction ghost movement while holding down arrow buttons increased.
- Initial placement distance can be adjusted through the construction panel.
- Walls align with their center to floor edges for more flexible construction.
- Posts can be centered on the corners of Floor parts.
- Initial placement location can be adjusted by distance from player.
- Buildings and construction ghosts can be accessed from 16 meters away.

Terraforming
- Terraforming near building parts adjusted.
- Construction ghosts no longer block terraforming.
- Completed parts allow for nearby terraforming but prevent dirt touching the structure to be removed or lowered.
- Safety check prevents players from terraforming if they are not standing on ground.

Constraints
- Buildings can be placed partially sunken into the ground.
- Slope requirement for initial placement removed.
- Vertical limit for building based on skill level (currently 40 meters off ground at 100 skill).
- Buildings require proper support underneath them to be finalized.
- Dismantling blocked when causing invalid situations (floating building parts).
- Ramps and platforms can be built inside of Trusses.

Building Support Requirements
-Rooms (Individual buildings) support nothing
-Floors: support Rooms, Floors, Posts, Ramps, Platforms
-Walls: support Walls, Posts
-Roofs: support nothing, must be placed on the ground or a floor.
-Trusses: support Floors, Walls, Roofs, Trusses, Posts, Ramps, Platforms
-Posts: support Floors, Walls, Roofs, Trusses, Posts, Ramps, Platforms
-Ramps: support nothing
-Platforms: support Floors, Walls, Roofs, Trusses, Posts, Ramps, Platforms

Floors require a central support or all corner support.
Ramps and platforms require a central support and two corners or four corner support.
Posts require direct central support
All other parts require all corner support

Views
- Players see construction ghost outlines only for buildings belonging to their own tribe.
- Site ropes for construction projects in invalid positions show only for tribe members.
- Scaffold frames added as building part outlines while buildings are under construction.
- Construction ghost outlines placed in invalid locations render in red.
- Construction ghost outlines in valid locations that require building parts beneath to be completed first render in yellow.
- Construction ghost outlines ready to be finalized render in white / grey.

New Parts
- Construction Truss and Base Post parts added to support floors and multiple levels.
- Base Posts can be used to support a Roof or Truss to create interior spaces of any height.
- Cantilever Trusses added to allow for overhangs and spans such as balconies and bridges.\
- 8x8 Trusses added to allow for larger interior spaces without columns.

For testing only:
- All new parts auto-learned at 5 architecture skill.

Next Up
- Construction Movement panel improved
- Vertical limits may be increased up to 60 meters (15 stories).

Bejaymac
01-31-2015, 06:25 AM
Bug Report time

The Height gauge under move is always one unit off unless you move the item horizontally, not sure if X & Z are also off as they are harder to check.

Decided to actually build the frames to carry on building, only I get "invalid location" every time I do, the frame is on the ground with it's height matching my ground height.

EDIT
It's not just the frames that wont build, anything "attached" to the ground gives an "invalid location" when you try to build it.

Xsyon
02-01-2015, 11:34 AM
The Test Server has been restarted with the following changes:

- Banaya parts should all be auto-learned at 5 architecture skill to facilitate testing.
- Bug causing parts on the ground to not be completed corrected.

The current changes should be able to properly be tested now. Please report any bugs or problems with the above listed changes.

Thanks!

Xsyon
02-01-2015, 06:21 PM
The Height gauge under move is always one unit off unless you move the item horizontally, not sure if X & Z are also off as they are harder to check.


Are you comparing the height to the height listed in the terraforming panel?

Are you seeing a problem with building parts on the ground, or off the ground, or both?

I'm not seeing any discrepancy. The height of the building part is based on its bottom center 'origin'. Please post more information or a specific location where you are seeing a discrepancy.

Thanks!

Bejaymac
02-02-2015, 01:55 AM
The terraforming panel shows my ground surface to be 334.00, when I place a ghost and then open it's movement panel the height also shows as 334.00, but when I move the ghost up (or down) one unit (0.1 to 1.0) it still shows as 334.00.

An example is I have a frame and want to put a floor on top of it, I set the movement to 1.0 and click the up button once, the floor has now moved up 1 meter but still shows the height as 334.00 instead of 335.00. Click the up button again and it now shows 335.00, click it another two times and I can visually see the floor is at the right height, but the height is showing as 337.00, it's not until I move the floor NSEW on the horizontal that the height catches up and shows 338.00.

Dabent
02-03-2015, 05:44 AM
Built the frame now I try to build on top of it and nothing. Nothing happens, can't open project nothing. I just don't get it I guess. What is the point of the frame if we can not build on top of it. I am trying to build a floor on a frame (banaya). I want to build on a frame and then remove the frame so I have a bridge.
Also way way to much of a pain in the ass spending hours pulling grass for a test server. Hows about unlimited resources on test server so we can test for you?

Bejaymac
02-03-2015, 02:07 PM
Not sure what else was in the patch but it appears my height gauge is now registering the correct height.


Dabent I take it your standing under the frame trying to open the project on top of it, if that's the case then your not close enough to the "origin" to open the project, it appears to have a really small radius of operation from the "origin", roughly 3.5 meters, so if your feet aren't close enough it just wont open.
Oddly enough the cancel project has a much larger radius of operation.

Xsyon
02-04-2015, 01:46 AM
A few changes have been patched:

- Height display update corrected.
- Buildings and construction ghosts can be accessed from 16 meters away.
- Terraforming near building parts adjusted.
- Construction ghosts no longer block terraforming.
- Completed parts allow for nearby terraforming but prevent dirt touching the structure to be removed or lowered.
- Dismantling blocked when causing invalid situations (floating building parts).

Note: I'll see what I can think of for players to have more resources for building. One solution is to ask a Guide (a support ticket would work) to come to the test server and spawn materials that you need.

Bejaymac
02-05-2015, 02:34 AM
In the discussion thread I mentioned an issue with frames and ramps, if you head over to my place in 904 you'll see the issue for yourself.

What you will see is log walls 3 high, but the middle row has a hole in it where a frame is located, that frame is the only way I could figure out for getting support for the ramp and floor above. The problem is that ramps don't act as support for anything above them, so even if we had a 2x4x4 frame I still wouldn't be able to place it over the ramp, as it would be red.


Sariel dropped off some building mats for me yesterday and about an hour later I started getting ghosts behaving strangely, two log walls stayed yellow despite everything under them being completed, then a short while later every ghost turned red.
I logged off and then back on as I was sure it was a sync issue between the client and server, sure enough once back on every ghost was the correct color and I was able to carry on building, but it started to happen again after a short while. This time instead of the colors changing to block me from building, they changed to allow me to build, and yes that does mean building free standing objects with no support under them.

Xsyon
02-05-2015, 09:14 AM
To Bejaymac:

Please give me an exact location to teleport to and I will check out your construction.

Regarding the change in states / colors: Do you recall what you were doing when this happened?

Did it happen while you were moving a structure?

Did it possibly happen while you crossed a zone boundary? (Zone boundaries are at 512, 512 as well as when a zone number changes)

When those two walls turned to yellow, did they stay yellow despite you continuing to move ghost projects, while other parts updated correctly?

Pwnuts
02-05-2015, 01:24 PM
you said treehouses will be possible. but with the frames trees cant be planted right in place.

so we can only build around a tree, not plant one on the place we builded? leafs annoy you if you try to build up there and move in your screen all the time. a possibility to plant a tree in the place you will need it ( as players did before ) would help


the terraforming thing cant be tested during winter season. i recognized i can use the roads skill close to architectures but i also can use the dig skill which have no effect. the ground is covered by snow so i cant see if streets work well.

Pwnuts
02-05-2015, 02:40 PM
about the frames. 2x10, 2x20 instead of only 4x4 frames would be a good thing too, to avoid having posts everywhere inside buildings. would also help to make decent bridges. ( sized was just an example )

or split frames into parts ( posts, platforms ) again and let the player decide the size, frame would require to have at least 4 posts at a certain size.

Bejaymac
02-06-2015, 05:38 AM
Zone 904 X 889 Z 152 will put you next to my totem.


I think the two yellow log walls might have been partially my fault, I started this construction off with a 2x4x4 ramp colliding with a frame with a floor on the frame, I built all three and then dismantled the frame as this was before you had added the blocking. A couple of server updates later and I decide to fully build that side, so I rebuilt the frame and I think that might have been what glitched that corner client side, as I didn't realize until later that a built frame could act as support for walls on top of it, so seeing them as yellow didn't register until after I had built the log walls under them.

The first color change when every ghost turned red happened just as I completed building a frame, the floor on top of it should have changed from yellow to gray, instead it and every other ghost turned red.

The second color change was when I was moving a floor into position, I created the project on the ground and the ghost was gray, moved it vertically and it changed to red, but once I started to move it horizontally into place it turned to gray, and that was despite it having nothing under it, even when I got it into place on top of a ghost frame it stayed gray instead of turning yellow.

Xsyon
02-20-2015, 06:30 PM
The Test Server is currently open with the most recent changes, however, we're not ready for public testing quite yet. I'm going to check some things with the Test Server data and with some direct assistance first.

Once the Test Server is ready for more testing, I will post here and make an announcement.

Willowhawk
02-22-2015, 07:44 PM
Once the Test Server is ready for more testing, I will post here and make an announcement.

I didn't read the forum before logging in to test, but the test server was live so I logged in.

Early in this thread you mention

For testing only:
- Only Banaya parts have been updated for testing. Please test only with Banaya parts.
- Banaya parts at auto-learned at 5 architecture skill.

When I logged in to test, the chat window named all the Banyana pieces we have "Auto learned", but there was also a "Gadu Frame" in that list. Unfortunately I decided to test it and though it did place a Gadu ghost frame, there is no right click menu. Now I can't move it or remove it either. I imagine that is because it isn't yet completed, but I thought I would mention it was on test in case it wasn't intended, and to warn others not to make that same mistake. It kills that area from testing since you can't move the frame.

Bejaymac
02-23-2015, 03:38 AM
That frame was auto learned by everyone right from the start of testing, it didn't work back then either. Never even thought to try it while I was on test over the weekend.

Xsyon
02-23-2015, 08:22 PM
The Test Server is open again for public testing!

I've updated the top post in this thread with the most current details on the revised construction system. I will be adding 8x8 and Cantilever Truss parts this week and that should complete this update! More parts, including fences, porches, 2x4 meter floors and bridge parts will be added in a subsequent update.

Please post any technical issues or problems encountered with these changes here. Please report any missing meshes or icons as well. If you reported an issue above and can still reproduce it, please report it again.

If you have any general, non technical concerns with this update please post in the Discussion (http://www.xsyon.com/showthread.php/9299-01-30-2015-Multi-Story-Building-Discussion) thread.

Notes:
- I was not able to reproduce the issue reported with all building ghosts turning red or white. I've revised many of the placement check functions, however, and there is also a final safety check when you attempt a final build command.

- I will be patching some changes straight to the test server while testing. Sometimes fixing one issue causes another to appear. If something seems to be a problem, please report it without assuming that it is intentional.

Thanks!

Pwnuts
02-23-2015, 10:58 PM
could you use a current backup from the pve server please? i'd like to test something else on the testserver.

Bejaymac
02-24-2015, 02:43 AM
Logged and relogged just in case it was a glitch, every single one of my carts have no wheels when they are not being used, they also have a double hull one slightly higher than the other, they also have no collision until you get too close in which case you are now inside the collision and have problems getting out again.
They look and appear to work correctly when being used, you just have to "drop" them when your on the move to avoid getting stuck inside it.

Mactavendish
02-24-2015, 05:34 AM
I can get in on laughingoak but there are problems with carts for me that has prevented me from even using the new parts.

First off the carts look like they are doubled up .. one stacked inside another. I tried to move one, but now I am trapped connected to the cart, I can drop it but cannot get out of the handles. moving it is looks all weird too and it has no wheels.

I cannot test anything till this is solved :)

btw tried on two diff computers and the same thing

Bejaymac
02-24-2015, 07:13 AM
If you get "trapped" in the cart then you need to "use" it to attach it to you, then start to move and hit "C" to go into combat mode while still moving, this will drop the cart and you should have enough momentum to allow you to get clear.

Xsyon
02-24-2015, 07:37 AM
Ok, strange. I'll look into the carts issue right away. I was testing without using a cart.

The changes to the data files must have inadvertently affected the carts. Should be an easy change.

Mactavendish
02-24-2015, 10:50 AM
Thanks!

I really want to try out a couple idea and will be on there most of the evening if the car issue gets solved

Xsyon
02-24-2015, 12:31 PM
I've updated the data for carts and this patch should be ready for proper testing now.

Please alert me if anything else (like the carts) is off.

Thanks!

Bejaymac
02-24-2015, 12:42 PM
That's both carts and boulders (don't ask :P) working again, thanks for the quick fixes.

Mactavendish
02-24-2015, 01:06 PM
Yeppers! Really appreciate that fast turn around :)

Bejaymac
02-24-2015, 03:15 PM
Floors support each other, as a result you can create a "stepped" walkway in the air that has no visible sign of support, I've used it to create an "arched" walkway from one side of my tribe to the other.

This isn't a "bug" as such as they are getting support otherwise I wouldn't have been able to build them, but I thought I'd report it just in case it's not "working as intended".

Xsyon
02-24-2015, 03:35 PM
The arch you made from floors is fine. All parts are correctly supported, none of the parts are individually floating and the structure is technically sound (so it won't cause any collision or path-finding problems).

I could further limit constrain floors to require four corner support, but I think allowing the half cantilever works alright and allows for interesting structures like what you built.

Heimdall
02-24-2015, 09:21 PM
Corner floors stay red when supported at all corners by posts but can be placed on a single post under the middle of the long side/ the center of what the square floor would be.

Ghosts of items placed on stacked floors stay red.

Floors can only be placed on 2 2x4x2 platforms, not with 1 of them under the center, but can be placed with a 2x2x2 platform under the center.

Ghosts of all posts I tried, with the exception of the Mason Yakitil Post, stayed red when placed on unfinished floors 0.5 meters above the ground and on a finished floor placed on the ground.
After I raised 1 of the floors with it's supporting platform and the post on top of them the post became yellow. Even after I lowered them again to 0.5 meters the post placed on it was yellow and stayed like that when moved to another floor at the same height.
Other posts moved on the raised and lowered floor stayed red.
All posts could be placed on a raised and finished floor although with the actual placing of some, for example the Banaya Weskiim Post, while standing on the floor the Banaya 4x4 truss under the floor got in the way.

Xsyon
02-25-2015, 01:24 AM
I've restarted the Test Server with the following changes:

Corner floors should work properly supported by 3 corners. Corner floors can't be supported by a single central column.

The Banaya Cantilever truss has been patched and is ready for testing. It should be available to all as an auto-learned scheme.

Xsyon
02-25-2015, 01:28 AM
Corner floors stay red when supported at all corners by posts but can be placed on a single post under the middle of the long side/ the center of what the square floor would be.I've fixed and patch this. Please confirm if you can.


Ghosts of items placed on stacked floors stay red.I am unable to reproduce this. Were your stacked floors in 'ghost' form or completed? What items did you place on the stacked floors?


Floors can only be placed on 2 2x4x2 platforms, not with 1 of them under the center, but can be placed with a 2x2x2 platform under the center.I am also unable to reproduce this. I'm not having any problems placing floors on 2x4x2 platforms.


Ghosts of all posts I tried, with the exception of the Mason Yakitil Post, stayed red when placed on unfinished floors 0.5 meters above the ground and on a finished floor placed on the ground.

After I raised 1 of the floors with it's supporting platform and the post on top of them the post became yellow. Even after I lowered them again to 0.5 meters the post placed on it was yellow and stayed like that when moved to another floor at the same height.

Other posts moved on the raised and lowered floor stayed red.
All posts could be placed on a raised and finished floor although with the actual placing of some, for example the Banaya Weskiim Post, while standing on the floor the Banaya 4x4 truss under the floor got in the way.I also am unable to reproduce these issues.

Would you be able to set up these situations on the Test Server and give me a location to teleport to? I can then check these out personally to see what's going on.

Thanks very much for the tests!

Bejaymac
02-25-2015, 01:57 AM
8x8 trusses and 4x4 cantilevers are in, only the Banaya 4x4 cantilever is working so far as all you get with the others is the building frame and no ghost, so avoid using them as once placed you can't do anything with them.

@ Heimdall, that spinning "target" you see when you have something selected, a small area at the center of it is the items support point, so with floors (and other larger items) there is a large area of it that can't be supported with small items like posts.

Ninja'd, that's what I get for checking the new stuff instead of posting lol

Xsyon
02-25-2015, 02:23 AM
Hello Heimdall,

I logged into the Test Server, ported to your location, joined your tribe and checked out your structures.

The corner floor on 3 posts works now, though I had to slightly adjust the supporting columns (you will see).

The other situations also look correct now. Please check again and let me know if the same issues reappear.

Thanks!

Bejaymac
02-25-2015, 04:36 AM
Corner walls aren't supporting each other, I've tried it with several of the corner walls I know how to make, the one on the ground is gray, but those placed directly above remain red.

They also remain red when on top of a truss, tried placings walls, posts and those base posts under them but they still stay red.

Heimdall
02-25-2015, 05:08 PM
The only one of the problems I reported that am still seeing is with a Mason Stone Floor on top of 1 Banaya 2x4x2 platform but it does not happen every time. I have one setup at Zone:896 X:402 Z:435 where the floor stays red and one at X:388 Z:430 where the floor turned yellow.

Edit: Moving the red floor after re-logging solved the problem.

I also tried corner walls on top of each other and like Bejaymac reported, the top wall stays red.


Charon/ Tupux

Xsyon
02-25-2015, 06:09 PM
I'm working on corner walls right now as they need to be handled a bit differently than regular walls. I'll post when the next minor patch is ready for testing.

Thanks guys!

Heimdall
02-25-2015, 06:46 PM
It is not possible to place items on Low Limestone Walls, I tried with posts and walls.

A ramp placed by Tupux stayed red when on a stacked, finished floor, moving it did not help. When I moved the ramp with Charon it turned grey.
After this I placed a ramp on the floors with Charon, it needed 1 click to turn grey. Trying again with Tupux produced more ramps and posts that stayed red.
After placing a ramp and 2 posts with Tupux, I relogged and 1 of the posts turned grey after moving it. Posts I now placed also turned grey after moving them.
I left 1 post and the ramp as they were, Zone:896 X:390 Z:455 Height:653.8


Charon/ Tupux

Dabent
02-26-2015, 04:59 AM
I can only get parts made on the ground to fit in. I tied a few different things (ramp, floor, truss) and no luck. I had to move to the ground and pull them up. Not a big deal just something I noticed.
Also having a hard time getting ramps in that don't give me a major trip point. When I try to raise them a click to fix them they turn red. 3 out of 4 have not gone in well.

Edit: Cant get things to work right on ground (dirt) on part of our land that is 2 meters difference from the rest of property.

Heimdall
02-26-2015, 08:12 AM
Cantilevers can be placed on posts or on a truss but not on walls. Like this it is not possible to build a column from trusses with walls around them, use 1 cantilever and continue the column, unless you place another cantilever on the other side.
Would it be possible to have walls support cantilevers and/ or have walls with cantilevers attached to them?

It seems to happen randomly that correctly placed items stay red and relogging fixes the problem most of the time, but sometimes another relog is needed.


Charon/ Tupux

Xsyon
02-26-2015, 09:16 AM
To Heimdall:

With the posts that are staying red for you, are they turning red:
- on initial placement?
- after you move them?
- after you move another part?

Do they turn the correct color after you re-log or after you re-log AND move or add a new part?

Every time you add or move a part it should 'refresh' all parts in your tribe area. I'm trying to determine if the 'refresh' function is not updating everything at times or if this is a matter of precision where I need to increase some parameters to further accommodate floating point math imprecision.

Thanks!

Xsyon
02-26-2015, 09:24 AM
To Dabent:

Please give me a location to check and see what you are doing. I'm not seeing any of the issues you mentioned.

Are you adjusting your movement units to 0.1 or are you using the default 0.2 units only?

Xsyon
02-26-2015, 09:31 AM
Regarding the Low Limestone Wall: I'll have to adjust this. It's a special case object that was the artist's mistake. It was kept in game because some players liked it.

Regarding placing trusses (like the cantilever trusses) on walls: Not for now. What you can do is use the base columns to support the cantilever on the other side of the wall. If this isn't clear, please let me know. I can build this quite easily and show you what I mean if needed.

I'll patch more changes today!

Heimdall
02-26-2015, 10:32 AM
It happens when placing them on the ground and then moving them on another part and also when I place them directly on another part. After re-logging I have to move items before they turn grey or yellow.
When it happens after placing an item directly on top of another item it will be red directly after placing. It will also stay red when I move it on another item, even when I can place items correctly on there.
I have seen this now with placing or moving posts, ramps and the cantilever on both finished and unfinished floors, platforms and on a truss.

Xsyon
02-26-2015, 12:03 PM
Hello Heimdall,

Are you moving items with 'snap' on or off?

The initial placement always occurs at the nearest 0.1 vertical unit from your player's ground position, so if an object is red until you move it, that's ok.

I just checked your constructions and saw many items in red when I logged in. Moving one item to 'refresh' construction set them all to the correct colors. Something is definitely strange and we'll see if my next patch makes a difference as I've adjusted the precision of the 'refresh' function.

Dabent
02-26-2015, 01:34 PM
To Dabent:

Please give me a location to check and see what you are doing. I'm not seeing any of the issues you mentioned.

Are you adjusting your movement units to 0.1 or are you using the default 0.2 units only?

If I build on my garden lvl I have to use snap (default 0.2) to get them in I have found. Same with jump build. My garden lvl is off of my build by 2 meters instead of 4. I keep snap turned off most of the time. But turning it on seems to resolve that issue.
I am in zone 782 X140 Z725

Heimdall
02-26-2015, 04:49 PM
I have snap off most of the time.
All the items that were red had already been moved by me as well. Moving 1 item after re-logging would usually make that item turn grey or yellow but none of the others.
Next time I get this problem I will try to use the snap option to see what happens.

Edit: I tried placing a post on a raised floor with snap off and even though it was at the same height I was on, it stayed red. Moving it with snap on solved the problem, the height of the post stayed the same.

Xsyon
02-26-2015, 06:21 PM
I've restarted the Test Server with the following changes:

1) Placement check slightly revised to better account for floating point match imprecision. This should help prevent the problem reported with building parts sometimes not showing the correct state and color. We'll see.

2) Corner wall placement checks corrected.

3) All 4x4 cantilever trusses including corners patched. These should be auto-learned at architecture skill 5 for testing.

4) All 8x8 trusses patched.

5) Default movement unit set to 0.1.

To Heimdall: If you continue having problems with the architecture parts not changing state and color correctly, please post. I will continue to check your area and try other changes until this is resolved.

To Dabent: If you have any problems fitting parts together, please try with the movement unit set to 0.1. Using snap is also a good choice to align parts on top of each other.

Some parts (especially columns) may appear to be on correctly on top of a surface but they are 0.1 units off. Columns in particular have a visible part that extends below the column's actual position and placement collision.

To everyone: Please continue to report any current issues with a location for me to check. This build contains all parts I plan to patch as part of the first big architecture update. More parts including longer cantilevers and 16x16 frames will be part of a second architecture patch.

Pwnuts
02-26-2015, 06:49 PM
not sure if you've seen my post on the other thread. there are a few things which might be changed. http://www.xsyon.com/showthread.php/9299-01-30-2015-Multi-Story-Building-Discussion?p=102065&viewfull=1#post102065

Heimdall
02-26-2015, 07:50 PM
Placing items on other items with the snap button off now works as does placing corner walls on top of each other.

When moving items the scaffolding does not move along with it or snaps to the edge of a floor and stays there.
The 8x8 trusses only produce a scaffolding.
Building the 8x8 corner trusses and the 4x4 corner cantilevers starts the building animation but nothing is placed.


Charon/ Tupux

thurgond
02-26-2015, 07:56 PM
Auto-learned the new parts but they are not complete. The new corner cantilevers have no icons and do not appear after placed. The new cantilevers and 8x8 trusses only have the construction frames, not the parts that will appear after completed. They may be selected but not right clicked to move, open or cancel.

Xsyon
02-26-2015, 09:20 PM
I've restarted the server and all parts should be patched out correctly now.

There are a few changes I will make tomorrow:
- Ghost buildings for new parts need correct grey textures.
- Some scaffolds will be improved (for example for cantilever parts).

These things are purely visual so they shouldn't affect testing.

The issue with scaffold outlines not moving should also be fixed now.

If any parts or icons are still not functioning, please post. Today's a bit hectic for me, so I'm trying to get these parts patched out and checked while juggling many other tasks.

Bejaymac
02-27-2015, 04:10 AM
Ramps are still causing problems, placing them inside a truss leaves you with a large beam stopping you from climbing the ramp, you have to jump to get over it, placing a ramp on a floor first gives you less of an obstruction, but it still catches you as you climb the ramp.

I was testing the base posts for building a stairwell with, you need six for each floor (one for each corner and two between the ramps) and it takes a bit of juggling to get them to work, as they collide with other items in unusual ways, almost as if their collision (or the other objects) was slightly offset.

When you updated all of the cantilevers I take it you rotated the initial placement, as all of the Banaya Cantilevers I had placed (built as well as ghosts) had been rotated 180 degrees.

Dabent
02-27-2015, 05:35 AM
Logged in this morning and all my cantilevers where facing 180 degrees from how I built them yesterday (grrrrr) finished and ghost ones. I also have 1 base post that was built by a guide that is in the way of me fixing said cantilevers. Also after a re-log it is the same.
I was trying to build an open in the middle 4-7 story building (ramps have trip issues 3rd floor and up) with a courtyard in the middle. So I had all of the cantilevers set so the legs would be up against the dirt wall and no have post out in the courtyard. If they have to point that way, legs to the inside, what is the point of them? the legs get in the way just like a truss would.
782 139x725

Xsyon
02-27-2015, 11:45 AM
I've patched out some updated files so that the textures the latest ghost parts are correct (grey) and to fix a few minor icon and mesh issues.

Regarding ramps within trusses: I'll see what I can do to adjust the player's ground / floor collision. It's not flexible enough right now and problems with thresholds, steps and ramps meeting up with floors have always been a problem. Ramps do work best with a floor under the base structure to align ramps with the top of floors instead of the bottom.

I could also create new stairwell parts that work better. The current ramps weren't really meant for building interior stairs, they were intended to be simple ramps that work with the platforms for thick walls you could walk on, etc.

Regarding a stairwell with 6 columns: Adding 2x4m floors will also resolve the specific situation you are talking about without the need for middle columns. (and these will be coming soon, either in this update or the next). Personally I've been building nice ramps that work well using a 8x8 frame on my local test server.

Regarding cantilevers: Yes, I rotated the meshes to make the system more consistent. That's just part of testing.

Regarding base posts: These are deliberately offset posts so that they can match up with trusses and roofs better. The best way to align them is by using the central scaffold post and then rotate your base post into the desire position.

To Dabent: I checked your location and I believe GuideUriel removed the post in question and you were able to rotate the cantilever trusses, correct? Everything looked fine at your location.

Xsyon
02-27-2015, 02:15 PM
Just a quick note:

I'm going to further adjust base post and possibly regular post (column) placement collision.

Heimdall
02-27-2015, 08:53 PM
Ghosts for the trusses and cantilevers don't change color when they are in the wrong position. They also don't get highlighted when I hover over them with the cursor while their scaffolding does get highlighted.


Charon/ Tupux

Xsyon
02-27-2015, 10:03 PM
To Heimdall:

That's strange, but let's check this again after my next update. I've made some optimizations and additional checks to the system that I'm currently testing on my local server. Once these are ready I will post here again.

Thanks!

Heimdall
02-28-2015, 08:31 AM
Roofs on platforms stay red and moving the roof with "Snap" selected makes it fall through the platforms.

Xsyon
02-28-2015, 04:45 PM
Regarding roofs (and trusses) on platforms: Since right now you should be able to move ramps and platforms inside roofs and trusses, snap will make the roofs or trusses fall through platforms and they won't be able to be properly supported. I will check and see if I can set up a special exception for this situation, allowing for snap and placement to work but allowing the builder to move trusses through platforms with the up and down arrows. I'll post after I figure out what can be done.

Xsyon
02-28-2015, 04:54 PM
The Test Server is open with the following changes:

- Project site scaffolds and ropes do not highlight or select (as they were just getting in the way). These are now purely visual.
- Names for some parts revised for more consistent names indicating the size in meters of the parts.
- Placement checking code improved. I removed a culling optimization that could have been setting parts to red when they shouldn't be.
- Base post collision and placement bounds adjusted.
- Built architecture shows the current position when selected, for tribe members only. This helps builders align building ghosts with existing parts.
- Placement code further optimized.

Next up:
- I will check on placing roofs and trusses on top of platforms but still allowing platforms to be placed inside these parts.
- I will check and adjust floor collision for situations such as a ramp inside a frame.
- I will set up roofs, floors and complete buildings to block rain from anything under these objects instead of just a set volume underneath.

This build includes some optimizations that have not been thoroughly tested. Please note any problems you still encounter with a location for me to check (even if they are reported above).

Also, please move at least one architecture part to 'refresh' all parts in your tribe before testing this build. An initial full refresh of parts is necessary with this update.

Thanks!

Xsyon
02-28-2015, 06:17 PM
Important Note:

Columns should not be tested at this point. I'm working on some optimizations and need to patch out my changes before columns can be properly tested again. This includes base posts.

Thanks!

Xsyon
02-28-2015, 07:57 PM
Ok, I've patched a new build and columns are ready to test!

Heimdall
03-01-2015, 10:04 PM
All colors now update without the need to move something to refresh the area.

Both Lunawyn and LaughingOak can't log into the test server anymore, I can't log in my account on Lunawyn's pc either. On my own pc I can still log in but I get severe (graphics?) lag and, probably caused by the lag, trying to move items most of the time results in them moving several clicks and sometimes I get the message items can't move beyond tribal grounds.

Corner walls can't be placed on posts while posts can be placed on corner walls.

The shadow of the Mason Base Post has the model of the Gelenkun post.
The Gadu base post only shows the scaffolding.
The Banaya and the scrapper Base Posts show only one half of the post which rotates so it keeps facing the camera.
I placed the base posts around Zone:896 X:386 Z:424

Not sure if this is intended but the game sees the front corners of the Bamati Pointed Teepee half a meter in front of the base and the cones of the scaffolding. There is a piece higher up in the front of the teepee that sticks out that far.

Trusses and cantilevers still don't change color or are too dark to see the difference.

Posts and collisions have been mentioned several times so I'm sorry if this is double:
Posts can be moved through a floor but floors not through a post. As the posts can be embedded in a wall that often means having to move the wall and everything that might be blocking it as well to get a floor in place.
Having a way to select a base post that's in a wall would be very helpfull anyway.

Charon/ Tupux

Bejaymac
03-02-2015, 01:38 AM
Need to make ghosts visible to everyone again.
There's a long dead tribe near my place and it's mostly ghosts after someone removed some of the building materials and left the rest. I cannot select any of them to remove them, which means the terraforming will remain, and I will end up having to call in a guide to clear the site.

Xsyon
03-02-2015, 05:14 PM
The Test Sever is up with the following changes:

1) Mason Base Post ghost fixed.
2) Gadu Base Post ghost fixed.
3) Banaya and Scrapper Base Ghost meshes fixed.

4) Posts should be able to move through floors and floors should be able to move through posts for placement purposes.

5) The dismantle check has been revised with the following changes:
- Parts that can't support other parts (ramps, rooms and roofs) can be dismantled as long as no object is blocking the dismantle (such as a dropped bin).
- Dismantle should not be affected by embedded columns or similar touching parts that are not actually supported by the part being dismantled.

6) Construction ghosts are visible again to all players. This is temporary. For the second building update I'm planning the following:
- When a tribe is abandoned, all building projects in ghost form will be removed.
- When a player dismantles a project on public land the ghost project will be visible. After 1 game day, this project will be removed. This will allow players to dismantle and retrieve materials, but they will have to do so quickly.
- Ghost projects on private tribe land will not be visible to non tribe members.

Notes on other issues mentioned:

Posts can be moved through walls for ease of building. In some cases you can place a post entirely within a wall while doing this. I can't revise the selection code to allow players to select a column inside a wall like this. It's a tricky situation but I think it's best to allow freedom of movement for posts right now.

I will check on placing corner walls on posts.

I will check on the Bamati Pointed Teepee. The scaffolding for this part hasn't been changed.

I've tested situations with ramps inside trusses and I'm not having any problems walking up the ramps to an upper floor, either with the ramps at the truss level or with ramps on top of a floor. If you have problems walking up a ramp within a truss, please give me a location to check.

I'm not having any issues connecting to the Test Server and neither are the Guides who are around helping me today. There may have been temporary connectivity issues for some players.

Regarding trusses and cantilevers not changing colors, please give me a location to check or post a screenshot. All parts should be changing colors correctly. I checked your tribe area and everything looked ok to me. I noticed the tribe area has a lot of shade, so it may have been too dark to notice.

Next up:

Please continue to mention any issues or problems that still exist. I think this update is ready enough for a first public update. A second update will include further improvements and a lot of new building parts!

Xsyon
03-03-2015, 12:32 PM
The Test Server has been restarted with the following changes:

- Corner walls adjusted so they can properly be supported by posts.
- Construction movement panel organized with a clear 'handle' area to move the panel and an information box on the right side.
- Selected building ghosts display their status (Valid, Invalid or Pending) in the top text display for the selected part.

Dabent
03-04-2015, 06:06 AM
"Regarding trusses and cantilevers not changing colors, please give me a location to check or post a screenshot. All parts should be changing colors correctly. I checked your tribe area and everything looked ok to me. I noticed the tribe area has a lot of shade, so it may have been too dark to notice."

Zone 782 139x725
Here is a picture of the green, red, grey and black items. The grey and black are able to be built. The black ones and red ones are hard to tell apart at night or when looking at from different angles.

http://i60.tinypic.com/29mvha9.jpg

Heimdall
03-04-2015, 03:32 PM
Sorry, I forgot to take the screenshots earlier, thank you Dabent for reminding me :)
GuideUriel said you were already working on this but I'll post a screenshot with coördinates just in case.

On the right of the picture there are a Mason 4x4 Truss and corner truss for color comparison, these seem to be the only items of the trusses and cantilevers that show the right color for me. On the left are a Pioneer Corner Truss 4x4 that should be yellow and a Bamati Cantilever that should be grey.
Position is Zone:896 X:389 Z:431

There is a Banaya 4x4 Truss on the right that looks like it has too many boards. You can walk through the extra boards.

The Corner cantilevers have no scaffolding.

Edit: the first uploaded picture was resized which makes it hard to see, I hope the picture I post now is better.

Dabent
03-04-2015, 07:38 PM
I will try to post a better picture this time. Here is 3 8x8 frames on top of each other with the top one above the 2nd one to show it should be red but it is black. They are all black as a mater of fact. My ramps and floors will turn green but seems that frames and cantilevers like to be black. Walls ramps etc will turn RED when placed wrong so I know it is not the lighting.


482
483
484

Xsyon
03-04-2015, 09:46 PM
I've patched out updated files with new scaffolds for the regular and corner cantilever parts and I replaced the Banaya Truss 4x4 with the correct mesh (The other mesh was a future mesh I was testing. It will be a separate part in the future.).

Regarding the frames rendering in black:

I've checked out the locations in the screenshots and the colors are all correct for me. In the screenshots it's too difficult for me to tell if the meshes are dark grey or colored but rendering very dark. I have a few questions to help me try to figure this out:

1) If you log out and back in at these locations, do the parts still render 'black'?

2) If yes, is it always the same parts rendering black? (For example the left trusses in the left screenshot from Heimdall's post.

3) Do these parts render black during any time of day?

4) When you select the parts, are they showing their correct status in the selection text (Invalid, Valid or Pending)?

5) Please try turning on / off different graphic settings, such as shadows or HDR rendering. Do these have any effect?

It doesn't seem that there are any critical issues in the way of this patch, so I will review a few things tomorrow then this patch should be ready to go early Friday morning during the regular maintenance time!

Heimdall
03-04-2015, 10:50 PM
1 to 4: All yes
5: I tried with everything highest and on and most low and off but will test a few more options tomorrow.


Charon/ Tupux

Dabent
03-05-2015, 06:29 AM
1.yes
2.yes trusses cantilevers. Can not find anything else effected.
3.yes
4.yes
5. Has no effect on this issue. Tried few options, reboot, nothing changes.

It is much better since you added the "Valid, Invalid, pending" option. But when trying to look from far to see if is going to work, not so much. Have to click on each piece to see if it is valid, invalid or pending. Looking forward to the next patch.

Xsyon
03-05-2015, 08:44 AM
Ok, can you try this:

Take the Pioneer Corner Truss 4x4 that should be yellow and a Bamati Cantilever that should be grey that are in the screenshot above at Zone:896 X:389 Z:431.

Rotate the parts, do they stay black or do they change color to the correct color?

Move the corner truss to the ground, do it stay black or does it change color?

Move the parts to the right of the parts that are rendering correctly. Do they stay black or do they change to the correct color?

Here is a screenshot of what I see when I log in to that location. I turned off shadows with all other rendering settings at the default settings. Could you do the same (all shadows off, during the daylight hours)? Thanks!



485

Heimdall
03-05-2015, 09:15 AM
They stay black when I rotate them and when I turn off the shadows.
This screenshot is taken during daylight and with shadows off, after I moved and rotated the items.

I think tuesday, I saw you place a corner cantilever that looked good to me. I tried all corner cantilevers today and they all are black when I place them.

Bejaymac
03-05-2015, 10:01 AM
Just checked all 8x8 trusses and corner trusses, they all render black, more over none of them highlight when you put your mouse over them.

Of the 4x4 truss and corner truss, the Bamati and Pioneer render black and can't be highlighted, the rest work.

Same problem with all of the cantilevers, even when you move them off the ground they can't be highlighted.

They were all working as I used many of them last weekend, so something has changed since then to affect them.

Mactavendish
03-05-2015, 10:07 AM
I am seeing the same issue as Heimdall.

Also we both have really bad lag and cant hardly move at times.

It runs from 150 to well over 800 for me .. and has to get below 100 for the parts to move or be used correctly

Im in the USA in arizona and Heimdall is in the netherlands

Xsyon
03-05-2015, 10:45 AM
Ok, I need to run some errands today. I will post later when I can spend time on the Test Server so that hopefully several of us can be online at the same time.

All building parts are rendering correctly for me and I'm connecting through the launcher so there shouldn't be any difference in what we're seeing.

Regarding the lag: The Test Server doesn't have the best ping to most players. Also, I'm going to patch out some optimizations today that may help.

Xsyon
03-05-2015, 12:06 PM
I've restarted the Test Server with some changes and optimizations to how building part states are refreshed. These changes are going straight to the Test Server where I will test as well. If you find any problems with buildings not being set to the correct state, please post here.

Please let me know if you are getting less lag (or the same) with this minor update.

If you are still seeing parts render in 'black' please post the following information:

- Are these parts in valid, invalid or pending locations? Are you getting 'black' parts in all locations?
- Location for me to check.
- If you log off and back in, are the parts that render black still rendering black when you first log in?

Please try deleting Meshes.xsip from the Xsyon/Data directory and patching again through the launcher. This will make sure that we are loading the exact same mesh files. There are times when I patch small changes that the files don't patch for some players until I make bigger changes. Deleting the entire xsip file makes sure you have the latest data.

- Are meshes still rendering in black after doing this?

Thanks!

Heimdall
03-05-2015, 01:17 PM
Lag is much less now and after deleting the Meshes.xsip file all the parts render correctly.

Dabent
03-05-2015, 01:21 PM
Deleting the Meshes.xsip and re-patching seems to have fixed all issues that I can see for now. Everything looks A-OK!! :)

Bejaymac
03-05-2015, 01:38 PM
Lag isn't usually an issue for me on test, my ping is usually 45 so I'm almost right next door.

Confirmed on the parts working again for me too.

Heimdall
03-05-2015, 02:47 PM
It looks like walls can not be moved with their center line on the edge of a floor anymore. Instead the center stays 10 cm from the edge making it hard to place walls on trusses with floors on them.

Bejaymac
03-05-2015, 02:54 PM
To add to what Heimdall has posted it also means walls can no longer slide between two floors.


EDIT
Just wrapped an 8x8 truss in walls, the scaffolding poles all line up showing that hasn't changed, I can still slide a wall inside at the 4 meter mark.

4x4 trusses however seem to be a little big as I can't wrap one of them in walls and have the scaffolding poles line up, same thing with floors.

Xsyon
03-05-2015, 04:48 PM
Ok, I will check on the 4x4 trusses and walls. I keep making adjustments back and forth to accommodate for the different combinations of parts and how players want them to align.

I'll post when I've patched another small update.

I'm glad that deleting Meshes.xsip took care of the rendering issues. I knew something strange was going on since I couldn't reproduce the problem.

Xsyon
03-05-2015, 05:59 PM
I've updated the wall placement bounds and everything looks fine to me on the Test Server now.

Please confirm that walls, floors and 4x4 trusses now fit correctly with each other.

I hope that's it!

Thanks!

Heimdall
03-05-2015, 06:36 PM
I can't find any problems with the walls anymore.


Edit: just a very small issue. Most of the 8x8 roofs have a double space in their name, between "roof" and "8x8"

Bejaymac
03-06-2015, 03:28 PM
The ghosts of 2x4x2 ramps are missing their scaffolding and pegs, only have the three so I don't know if it's all of them or not.

chojinuk
03-07-2015, 03:27 AM
The Test Sever is up with the following changes:


- When a tribe is abandoned, all building projects in ghost form will be removed.




Xyson is there going to be a way to move the Totem without abandoning your Tribe ?

very occasionally it becomes neccesary to the move the totem.

I recently moved mine because when I re-spawned back at my camp i was trapped.

Thanks

Sark

Xsyon
03-08-2015, 03:38 AM
Xyson is there going to be a way to move the Totem without abandoning your Tribe ?

very occasionally it becomes neccesary to the move the totem. I recently moved mine because when I re-spawned back at my camp i was trapped.

Thanks

Sark

Not for this coming update. I've had this on my suggestion list for a while, but it's not an easy thing to add. My list is getting shorter at least. Once I'm done with the creature changes that are in progress I'll get back to the suggestion list and see what issues I can deal with then.

Xsyon
03-08-2015, 03:44 AM
The Test Server has been updated with a few minor changes for tomorrow's patch.

- New architecture schemes set to correct skill requirements. The Gadu versions of the new parts will be auto-learned so that veteran players can get building right away with this new system.

- Blueprints for all new parts added to the scavenging tables.

- Rotate 180 degrees button added to the construction movement panel. I think this minor change is a great addition. You can now flip walls 180 degrees in place.

- Height limit off the ground (which is based on architecture skill) displays in the construction movement panel.

- Scaffolds for 2x4x2 ramps correctly display.

- Minor revisions to truss placement meshes to prevent in air truss supports.

- Extra spaces removed from 8x8 roof names.

That should do it for this coming update!

Heimdall
03-08-2015, 09:19 AM
I do see the new rotate 180 degrees button and height limit, the 2x4x2 ramps have scaffolding and the new schemes show correct levels.
But I still know all of the new schemes, not just the Gadu's and there still are extra spaces in the roof names.

Maybe it is because I had some problems logging in, first I got a small patch that stopped downloading for a few minutes before finishing the download and then I crashed when trying to log in. On the next attempt to log in, only 1 minute later, I got a larger patch.

Pwnuts
03-08-2015, 09:32 AM
this causes if you start the client while you are on loadingscreen, its a bug of the patchclient. if you start xsyon more than once just wait till the entire game is loaded and your charackter is visible. then you can start the patcher another time. if you start it while you load the world you will crash and a patch wich doesnt do anyting about 57mb will be there.

Xsyon
03-08-2015, 09:49 AM
But I still know all of the new schemes, not just the Gadu's
This is correct. You won't unlearn any schemes you already learned on the Test Server. When this is patched to the Main Servers, you should auto-learn only the Gadu schemes.


and there still are extra spaces in the roof names.
Is this on buildings or ghosts already placed, newly placed buildings and ghosts or schemes in your construction panel? If it's only with buildings already in the world, that's fine. I didn't update those.

Heimdall
03-08-2015, 09:59 AM
The double spaces are in the construction panel, not in the placed items.

8x8 trusses no longer have support for floors and walls in their center making it necessary to use a post there.
On a 4x4 truss floors are yellow when placed completely or half on the truss but red when placed 3/4 on it.

Bejaymac
03-08-2015, 01:31 PM
8x8's have no support for anything other than themselves, was able to drop a 4x4 truss inside one where I couldn't before.

floors on 4x4 trusses need to have their pegs line up with the scaffolding to get full support, move the floor 0.3 to 1.2 from that position and the floors turn red.

2x2x4 platforms have green scaffolding

180 button only appears when you click on it, not sure if it's tied into the fact the buttons no longer have a underlaying background.

EDIT Just tried to dual log and got hit with a big patch for the interface, the move interface now shows the 180 button as well as the underlaying background.

Xsyon
03-08-2015, 04:52 PM
I'm restarting the Test Server again with another very minor patch.

The double spaces in the 8x8 roof scheme names should be gone now. I had fixed this for new object names but not for the schemes listed in your construction panel.

Trusses should support floors and walls like before while still not allowing for truss posts to be floating in the air.

You should not be able to drop a 4x4 truss inside a 8x8 truss now.

Regarding green scaffolds: This might be a patch error. Please delete Meshes.xsip to make sure the correct files are fully updated. When I patch very minor changes sometimes the patcher does not update the xsip files correctly until there is a bigger change.

These are minor optimizations I'm making and I'm patching straight to the Test Server where I'm checking things directly. If you notice any other issues, please let me know. If the optimizations cause issues, they can easily be reverted.

Heimdall
03-08-2015, 05:59 PM
Floors and walls work now on trusses while truss posts no longer can float in the air but I now have some locations where trusses and cantilevers stay red and show "Position Invalid" on the ground while floors and platforms are grey in the same places. Also the trusses and cantilevers show the wrong X position.
Replacing the trusses and cantilevers does not help but moving them to another position will make them turn grey. Moving them back they turn red again, I tried both with and without "Snap Below" selected.
Examples of these items are at: Zone:896 X:515 Z:438 - X515 Z:446 - X:512 Z:476
The position shown when selecting the last listed item is X:0 Z:476

Also, when moving items around, they sometimes get unselected.

Edit: at position X:488 Z:512 is a truss that shows 0 for the Z position and is red while on the ground.

Xsyon
03-08-2015, 06:51 PM
Hello Heimdall,

I'm checking that location and I see that the trusses in question are right on a zone boundary (there is a zone boundary every 512 meters).

That's also why the X value seems incorrect. Actual zones are 512x512 meters but for player orientation and the map, zones are 1024x1024 meters (which was the original zone size).

About projects deselecting while moving them, do you think this happened while crossing the 512 meter zone boundary line?

I'll check out these zone boundary issues and post again when I've patched another small update.

Thanks!

Heimdall
03-08-2015, 06:58 PM
The deselecting could very well have happened while crossing that line.

Xsyon
03-08-2015, 07:58 PM
I've patched a few minor changes for building projects moving across a zone boundary.

- The X and Z display should show matching the map using 1024 meter zones instead of the 512 meter actual zones.
- Projects on the ground spanning a zone boundary should update correctly.

I see there is an issue with projects deselecting when being moved across a zone boundary. This is trickier to fix since the object actually is removed and recreated in the new zone. I'll work on fixing this but likely not until after this patch is made public.

If there are any further minor issues, please keep reporting them. This update will still go out early tomorrow morning but I will keep fixing any problems reported.

Thanks!

Heimdall
03-08-2015, 08:12 PM
After moving the items they changed to the correct color.

Edit: I just noticed the X position shown is still wrong at the top of the screen, the moving panel shows the right coördinates.


Charon/ Tupux

Xsyon
03-08-2015, 09:12 PM
I've patched another quick build to convert the position display on selected architecture parts to the 1024 zone grid.

Thanks!

Heimdall
03-08-2015, 10:45 PM
That works now too.
Success with going live, it's a great update!