05/16/2015 - Test Server - Trading Post Technical

[Xsyon]

Hello Xsyon Citizens!

The Test Server is open for finals tests on an upcoming feature: Trade with tribes beyond the mist.

This thread is for a technical discussion only so that I can set proper variables and wrap up this feature.

General feedback on the game economy and upcoming building uses will be requested in another thread.

Here is how it works:

1) Select a complete building (such as a tent or teepee) and choose Assign Use from the drop down menu.

2) Assign the Trading Post use to the building. This is similar to assigning the current Commissary use.

3) When a building is assigned as a Trading Post, you can see and select Trade as the top most selection from its use menu. Selecting Trade will open a panel similar to the Trade Totem Panel.

4) From the Trading Post panel, hit the Select Tribe button to choose a tribe to trade with. Choose one of 7 Mist Tribes to trade with.

5) On a regular schedule (currently once per game day), the Trading Post will be populated with schemes, patterns and blueprints from a currently select specific 'tribe' that you are trading with. (For example Bamati, Pioneer or Mason tribe). Prices will be in dollars and should match or exceed current going rates for similar items.

6) Some schemes will be available only through Trading Posts and at high prices. This should create a use for veteran players with hoarded dollar bills.

7) Unsold items will be cleared out on a regular basis (if they are unsold for one real week).

8) Homesteads will not be allowed to place a Trading Post. Tribes of Band size and above are allowed one Trading Post. Larger tribes will have their Trading Post updated with more items each update.

For testing only:

1) Unsold items are cleared out after 2 game days.

2) Trading Posts are limited to 20 items at a time. This may be the final limit as well, but I welcome your input on this.

3) The current prices for schemes are as follows:

Revised 05/20/2015

Armor: Normal $100 Artisan $250 Master $500
Tools: Normal $100 Artisan $250 Master $500
Weapons: Will be added after Weapons are revised.

Architecture Blueprints:
Floors, Walls, Posts: $1000
Rooms (Tents etc.) / Ramps / Platforms / 4x4 Trusses : $2000
Railings: $2500
Roofs / Gates / 8x8 Trusses / Beams: $5000
Smokehouse / 8x8 Roofs: $7500
Pioneer Canopy: $10000
New Rare Parts (16x16 Truss and Beams, 4x8 Cantilevers): $10000

Next up:

1) Final prices may be revised further based on feedback and research.

2) Final update times and variables may be revised based on feedback.

3) Tribe selections will be improved with nicer image buttons.

Please post feedback on the following:

1) Do you encounter any bugs or problems with the system as is?

2) Items for sale will include Tool Schemes, Armor Patterns and Architecture Blueprints. What do you think price ranges should be for schemes, patterns and blueprints?

3) How often do you think traders should 'visit' the trading posts? Currently this is set at once per game day (9 times per real day).

4) How many new items should the traders bring per round? This currently varies from 0 to 4 per game day with the upper limit based on tribe size. On an average real day a small tribe will get 4-5 new recipes while a larger tribe will gain 15-20. Does this seem right or would you like to see more or less recipes in circulation?

5) How much time do you think items should remain unsold in the Trading Post before being automatically removed? I am planning for items to expire after 1 real week. Is this good or should it be more or less?

6) Currently a Trading Post can hold 20 recipes for sale. Should I increase or decrease this number?

7) Currently the items for trade are randomly selected based on what is available for each Mist Tribe. Do you think this is ok, or would you like to see more of a predictable choice?

For example: Currently a Trading Post selects randomly from all available schemes for that selected Mist Tribe. I could have the selection choose one armor, one tool or weapon and one blueprint per round. I could further categorize the selection if needed (for example by armor type or architecture normal vs rare parts).

[Xsyon]

Regarding pricing:

The current prices are based on previous feedback and current and recent prices in game. Please keep your feedback in this thread limited to actual prices you'd like to see for each category.

If you wish to discuss reasons for prices and the general effects on the game economy, please do so in the Pricing Discussion Thread here (http://www.xsyon.com/showthread.php/9391-05-16-2015-Test-Server-Trading-Post-Price-Discussion?p=102748#post102748).

Prior posts were lost while I was in the middle of moving the posts to a new thread and players continued to post. I should have ensured both the old and new threads were locked while doing this. I've spent the past 30 minutes trying to recover the posts and I can't find them. I'm sorry about that. It's not a process that I've done very often.

I did read all the feedback and am taking it all into consideration. Unfortunately I can't respond to any specific points. If you feel something is worth further discussion or comments from me, please post it again in the Pricing Discussion Thread (http://www.xsyon.com/showthread.php/9391-05-16-2015-Test-Server-Trading-Post-Price-Discussion?p=102748#post102748).

A few things are worth pointing out:

1) Players will not be selecting specific schemes to be gained through the Trading Post. They can only influence the selection by selecting the Mist Tribe to trade with.

2) Remember that there is a 20 item limit on a Trading Post. If players don't buy the available schemes, they will sit there for one real week.

This means that if tribes want more of a selection or are not getting schemes they want, they will need to buy the current schemes at current prices or hope that other players do so (by encouraging other players to visit their Trading Post). That will leave empty spots in the Trading Post for more schemes to arrive.

3) Schemes for sale are randomly selected and there may be game days where no new schemes are added. It's unlikely that that multiple copies of the same scheme will be for sale over the course of a week.

[Xsyon]

Prices have been further revised (See prices in the first post)

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Basically I raised prices for patterns and schemes based on feedback. I think the rest are fine. If you have any further feedback on these prices, please post desired prices in this thread. For more in depth discussion on prices and the game economy, please post in the Price Discussion thread here (http://www.xsyon.com/showthread.php/9391-05-16-2015-Test-Server-Trading-Post-Price-Discussion)

Prices should be high in general as the Trading Post is not meant to replace regular trade, but rather provide a sink for players that have extra cash and willing to spend more for items they want and can't find through regular trade.

It's also a method to introduce items (such as the new rare architecture blueprints) for high end players. I'm considering other high price items in the near future, for example a token that adds a stat adjustment.

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I've also slightly adjusted the system so that with each update tribes now get a chance to add one armor pattern, one tool or container scheme and one blueprint. The chance is increased based on tribe size. This revision should supply more of a balance and guarantee that blueprints are added daily.

[Mactavendish]

One thing I noticed was that if you pick a tribe say the Mason tribe, I would be expecting blueprints from that tribe.

However, on test even though I had picked MASON tribe the blueprint was gadu. Yes, it was a rare one, but why have tribe selection if the blueprint is still just random? It makes picking a tribe pointless.

[Pwnuts]

canopy and scrapper smoke house should be more since they are the currently rare and wanted recipes. ramps and platforms had no value in the past, they should be lowered.

seriously, all the support recipes should be way lower. doesnt matter if they are new or not. vet player wont have problems to buy them, new players wont know the diffrence in new-old. why would a new player have to pay 7,5k $ for a project which is hidden behind his walls after all, only to have a chance to build multiple stories? thats a low use, no optical effect and a lot of money.


It's also a method to introduce items (such as the new rare architecture blueprints) for high end players.

if you think new recipes should be more valuable because of this, simply dont add them to the mist trader for the next 6 month. but dont put stuff which is not worth the price please...

[Whorlok]

canopy and scrapper smoke house should be more since they are the currently rare and wanted recipes. ramps and platforms had no value in the past, they should be lowered.

seriously, all the support recipes should be way lower. doesnt matter if they are new or not. vet player wont have problems to buy them, new players wont know the diffrence in new-old. why would a new player have to pay 7,5k $ for a project which is hidden behind his walls after all, only to have a chance to build multiple stories? thats a low use, no optical effect and a lot of money.



if you think new recipes should be more valuable because of this, simply dont add them to the mist trader for the next 6 month. but dont put stuff which is not worth the price please...

i think ist ok and not 6 months later!
if you scavenging 1 hour you have 1000 dollar

[Pwnuts]

please creat a new charackter, scav 1 hour and try to get 1k dollars, lol!

[Whorlok]

please creat a new charackter, scav 1 hour and try to get 1k dollars, lol!

ok..true
new char is pullshit..,)

[Whorlok]

please creat a new charackter, scav 1 hour and try to get 1k dollars, lol!

ok..true
new char is pullshit in scavening..,)

[Xsyon]

I've slightly adjusted prices as follows:

Canopy and Smokehouse prices increased.
Ramps, Platforms and basic Trusses slightly decreased.

Again, Trading Post prices should be high and are not meant for new players. The Trading Post is meant as a money sink for players that have the extra cash and want something special or something they can't buy at the time from other players.

The very large trusses and beams should be special and limited parts. Even though they get covered up, they allow for long spans and large interior spaces. These should be desired parts for experienced builders and are best used in large tribe areas. They are not basic parts for new architects.

Regarding ramps and platforms, in game data shows that they have been selling for higher prices than floors, walls and posts, so I will keep them higher in Trading Posts as well.

Note: These prices haven't yet been patched to the Test Server but will be part of the update.

Looks like this update is ready to go for tomorrow morning! I'll wait and see to make sure no last minute issues are reported.

Thanks for the input!

[thurgond]

canopy and scrapper smoke house should be more since they are the currently rare and wanted recipes. ramps and platforms had no value in the past, they should be lowered.

I don't see the value on smoke house and most canopy schemes. The Pioneer Canopy BP seems rare and desired but the others are not. I generally throw in a smoke house or scrapper picnic canopy BP in on BP trades since they have no demand and are so common.

[Pwnuts]

Again, Trading Post prices should be high and are not meant for new players. The Trading Post is meant as a money sink for players that have the extra cash and want something special or something they can't buy at the time from other players.


But most many ppl will use your prices as a new standart, so it effect not only old players who have spare dollars.


Picnic Canopy: $10000
gadu/pioneer too?

[Xsyon]

Sorry, I wrote it incorrectly. It's the Pioneer Canopy that has the high price. I corrected that on the first post just now.

Thanks!

[MrDDT]

I don't see the value on smoke house and most canopy schemes. The Pioneer Canopy BP seems rare and desired but the others are not. I generally throw in a smoke house or scrapper picnic canopy BP in on BP trades since they have no demand and are so common.

I made my reply to your post in the price topic. Here

http://www.xsyon.com/showthread.php/9391-05-16-2015-Test-Server-Trading-Post-Price-Discussion

[Bejaymac]

How many tribes in game are big enough to create a trade post?

How many of their "leaders" are active enough to change the trade tribe regularly ?

How many are "easy" to get to ?

How many will actually allow you onto their tribe land to use the trade post ?

Now for me in 904 that makes the VR as my closest as I don't think "Just for Fun" is active, even as the "crow flies" that's quite a journey, and a wasted journey if there's nothing there worth buying.

So for me this like the other "building assignments" are a complete waste of R&D time and money.

So I'm going to make a suggestion, only have one trade post in game, and stick it on Founders, and set it to only generate random blueprints.

At the same time create an area around it where players can drop their trade totems, but you will have to link a tribes trade totems together, other wise they will end up just as empty and useless as every other trade center in game.

[Mactavendish]

Bejay, wouldn't that just continue the same problem we have now of players not interacting together?

The idea as I understand it is to use the trade posts as a way to draw people to your tribe to interact with, and to help more "accomplished" players get access to hard to get schemes/patterns/blueprints.

It is not designed for new players, so putting it on founder's would defeat it's purpose.

To be completely honest, people won't use these unless that are LOOKING for something specific.
So, let's say YOU are looking for the scrappers 4x8 cantilever. You know that Pawnee has scrappers selected.
You can check if its up with anyone you know from that tribe and come on across the lake to get it.

As to your comment on a "wasted journey", even hermits need to explore once and awhile. ;P

[Pwnuts]

I prefer the idea of bejaymac as well. founders would be a place where ppl need to go, this way they still come together, even better with only one totem, since they would come together at the same place, not only a very few in each place.

i like the random point! i think its better to get a suprise than let ppl choose what they want on the totem. with just one totem everybody have the chance for the same random stuff. if there are a bunch of totems, ppl would need to spend a lot of time every day to visit all tribe, only to make sure they wont miss any good deals. founders is close to me, true, but thats not my point. i wouldnt mind to make a trade totem on misery island. also a good reason for ppl to get the swimming skill up by the time, for those who dont have yet.

Also the access would be gained anytime. i could put a TT inside a builing and lock it to keep ppl away from the deal, on founders this wont happen. a few maybe not big tribes but "tribes (20+ members) homesteader with a whole bunch of accounds, and we do have at least 3 active solo player with a tribe on the pve server, could abuse this system this way too.

related to xsyon other post, i also like the idea to put only recipes for now. maybe add some coloured sport shirts and stuff in the future. if we could get master armor pieces on TT it would remove the sense of raising a armor crafting skill, same for weapons. or put armors only without any stats. many ppl are looking for scrapper carts, i'm asked if i gone sell some of mine a lot of times. maybe some scrapper cars would be a good thing too, but we should keep some items only as eventreward, for those who join events only for the reason that its rewarded, what most ppl do.

[MrDDT]

Making founders the place to go would be silly IMO. It would remove so much of what the game has to offer.

[thurgond]

Why anyone would want to visit the wretched hive of scum and villainy that is Founders Isle escapes me.

I plan to set up a trade post outside my walls right on the road on both Peace and War. I won't change the chosen mist tribe on War often, but it will still be there for anyone to use.

One question I would like Jordi to answer is why the mist tribes will not be selling cart BP's. A prospective wainwright needs a missing scheme much more than an architect, tool crafter or armor crafter.

[Xsyon]

How many tribes in game are big enough to create a trade post?
Around 50 right now. When players are allowed both a homestead and a tribe membership, I expect very few players will opt to be without a membership in a tribe large enough to have a Trading Post.


How many of their "leaders" are active enough to change the trade tribe regularly ?
Any tribe member can select the Mist Tribe to trade with, so the leader's presence won't be required.


How many are "easy" to get to ? How many will actually allow you onto their tribe land to use the trade post ?It's hard for me to say or predict. I have spoken to some tribe leaders that intend to make their trading post (and soon trade center) a welcome player for non tribe members by creating centers that can be accessed and used by anyone.


I plan to set up a trade post outside my walls right on the road on both Peace and War. I won't change the chosen mist tribe on War often, but it will still be there for anyone to use. Great! This is what other tribes have told me as well. I think many players want to create active centers and share their buildings with others.


One question I would like Jordi to answer is why the mist tribes will not be selling cart BP's.I'll add them to the list.

This a minor feature right now and as I've stated before, is primarily intended as a cash sink for the players that can afford it. With more building uses in place, I hope and expect active town centers to finally work (especially when these are the primary starting locations for new players).

About creating a trade center on Founder's, this goes against one of the main goals of Xsyon. Founder's was created because not enough features were in game yet and as a location for events. Tribes should eventually create centers of trade and activity and with more building uses they should be able to do so!