06/26/2015 - Feedback Request Building Use Abuse

[Xsyon]

Hello Xsyon Citizens!

This thread is intended for all general comments regarding potential abuse concerns with the upcoming building uses.

Concerns Include:
- Players spawning at a Welcome Station or Infirmary at a trapped location. This can be due to:
-- Inactive tribes
-- Tribes specifically creating traps with the new uses.

Possible Solutions:
- Stricter requirements on who can set Infirmaries or Welcome Stations. This prevents new players from using these features to cause grief. Established players (I believe) will be less likely to try to cause problems with these building uses.
-- Larger tribes only?
-- Only tribes that have existed for 3 months? 6 months? Or more?

- Placement limits. This would require a clear path from the building to off tribe land. This is trickier to code and may need to be simplified. For example:
-- Building must be on the ground.
-- Building must have a clear straight path to off tribe land.

- Buildings require Guide approval.

- Buildings are checked by Guides and building use privileges can be revoked if abused.

In general I prefer solutions that require less active monitoring and placement restrictions. I think allowing only more established and vested players to place these uses would alleviate the concerns.

These building uses go back to my original design and vision for Xsyon, where players would enter the world in active town locations with trade, quests and facilities available to them and where players would congregate.

Let's discuss and I am open to other solutions as well.

[MrDDT]

Request from guides and if a abused it's removed.
Meaning if guides set a building to "welcome station" and then later the tribe walls it up, and people are reporting getting stuck, then guides can remove it.

Another option is make it very costly to set infirmaries and welcome stations with 10 day upkeep (like current tribe bonuses), that way only active tribes will use them and good for economy.

I do not like the option where tribes have to have been around for X months or years, because then new clans or tribes will feel even further behind. Simply make it cost in game resources and any tribe can do it, but most tribes will not want to pay a lot of money only to have the building removed status and repay it again.

[wastelandstoic]

I like the idea of placement restrictions and both listed seem fine.

If you went with assigning the use privileges to established players (which I'm not opposed to) How would this be done? Especially if this was also a function of tribe rank privileges and assignable through the totem rank settings?

Would this then naturally mean only tribal leaders who are approved by Xsyon /guides?
And if the tribe leadership should change hands will the use privilege be lost until reapplied for or passed to the new leader(s) automatically?

Questions beget questions...



Another option is make it very costly to set infirmaries and welcome stations with 10 day upkeep (like current tribe bonuses), that way only active tribes will use them and good for economy.

Rather than a potential income source for tribes this would make both a money sink? How much use would they get that way?

Q b q...

[Bejaymac]

One simple one is the second a tribe goes from "0 days since activity" to "1 days since activity" they lose those building assignments.

[Casondrah]

I would rather not see the limits of who can place a welcome station be based on tribe size (ie only larger tribes) as that to me would prevent some of the small tribes from growing if they wish to.

I believe having it based off some sort of time factor with Guide monitoring would be a better option. I don't think they should require a Guide's approval, but the Guides could wander around periodically to various stations and ensure they're all in order and revoke any they find amiss.

Allow tribes that have been active for 3 months to assign a Welcome Station. From what I've observed, that would be a good time frame to see if they'll stay or get bored and leave the game, without making the wait too long. It would also give players something to strive for and time to build and prepare their tribe area as well if they're new to the game. Learning and figuring things out themselves before they're trying to help other new players too much wouldn't be the worst thing. And yes, the welcome stations should disappear if a tribe goes inactive....and very quickly. There'll be nothing worse than having ppl spawn into the game to a welcome station at an inactive tribe where no one logs in to help them/invite/etc. The day that a totem turns to "X days since activity" the welcome station should cease to function. And "X" should be very very low, maybe not 1 day, (well, honestly that may not be a bad choice) but say 1rl week or "63 days since activity" at the most. If a tribe member logs back into that tribe again in the future and resets their totem, they could always reassign their welcome center.

I'm sure we will be quick to alert the Guides of any problem welcome centers we find, and Guides should definitely be able to revoke the welcome center anywhere they find abuse or a problem....be that trapping newbs or whatever else ppl will come up with. A new player logging in to a welcome center where they're trapped is most likely gonna figure out how to call out to global or at least local and let us all know they're stuck.....

I don't think making it costly to place the welcome stations or infirmaries is a good option, it has the ability to turn what should be something helpful into a chore that eventually fewer and fewer will do. Especially the infirmaries, if that happens, only the larger tribes around the lake will keep them going and if I'm out near the mists scaving, for example, and get killed by a roaming band of Shadowbears, I don't want my only options for respawning to be lakeside. I want to spawn near where I was and get back to it or get my cart if I've brought one on my trip.

I love the ideas of the Welcome Centers and Infirmaries and am excited to see them and other building features implemented.

[MrDDT]

If there is no cost, and no guide approval then tribes will just change it without worry or cost back to whatever even though it locks people in or whatever.

If the money factor is the issue just simply have the max cost pre revive increased. Why is there even a limit on the max price for a revive?

Cas the whole point of being out the tine extreme areas and dying or living is that it will be harder, it makes no sense whatsoever to make them easy places to live.
If you do not want your only option to be there, then the price of a revive will be higher for tribes that live in harder to live areas. Remember prices are regulated by how hard it is to maintain the tribe and how much they are being used with competition in the area.

I think remove the cap on revive prices and make the infirmeries cost to set a building to that a good amount. Then if a guide says it's locking people in they can warn the tribe, then after a while they can remove the setting. Then it would cost to reset it.

Remember this would be a 1 time fee if a tribe were to keep active and it from locking people up. So tribes that have a good one would easy make money.

[Whorlok]

Concerns Include:
- Players spawning at a Welcome Station or Infirmary at a trapped location. This can be due to:
-- Inactive tribes
-- Tribes specifically creating traps with the new uses.

Possible Solutions:
- Stricter requirements on who can set Infirmaries or Welcome Stations. This prevents new players from using these features to cause grief. Established players (I believe) will be less likely to try to cause problems with these building uses.
-- Larger tribes only?
-- Only tribes that have existed for 3 months? 6 months? Or more?

-WELCOME Stations if a tribe is active for 3 Month

-INFIRMARIES: same as UPKEEP on Tribe totem! But you must put in 1000 Potatoes (the Patient in those infirmaries Need Food for healing....not Money ..;) )! if the timer is at end then ist inactive.Same as the UPKEEP on tribe totem! And the farming Job have anything to do

[Whorlok]

INFIRMARIES: If Player must fill those infirmaries with 1000 potatoes...ist many work and not each lonely Player would/can fill this! and for a fast travel it is then to high cost.
But for this work (1000 potatoes) i think the radius must be then 2000

[Whorlok]

INFIRMARIES what is on the testserver is good so:
-for a respawn it cost 0-100 Dollar
- and Radius 2000 m

but improve this with my idea to UPKEEP with 1000 Potatoes or other food

[Casondrah]

I didn't mean costly to assign the use in my post, bad miss-type on my part! I was referring to upkeep costs for the host tribe to keep any welcome center or infirmary active... if that was implemented, making upkeep costs high would turn it into a chore most would let go after a while.

I live in high danger area, I can see the mists from my tribal land...The locals wander thru and sometimes stay far longer than they're welcome, but that's how I choose to play. I like it that way, it keeps me on my toes. It is tougher to live out near the mists and definitely not something everyone wants or can handle. I wasn't really thinking personally here, rather, looking at the bigger picture and realistically at how some ppl play. Living in extreme isn't easy nor should it be. But adding the costs of gathering enough resources to keep something going that is for other players, not themselves...eh...maybe not something I would expect many to do. If upkeep costs were implemented and set high, I see a lot of those buildings being removed after the 'new and shiny' period wears off...and there goes the convenience. It's not a matter of easy, but of convenience, which I would think is the main point of them in the first place. Running across the map to scav or hunt with your friends or whatever you're running far from home to do is easy enough, albeit time-consuming, but it sure would be convenient to not have to the second time if I don't want to and am willing to pay for that convenience.

I never said I didn't intend to pay to revive nearby, that's to be expected. And yes, I expect to pay more to revive out near the mists or more remote areas. If I don't like it...I can revive at home. My choice. But the (possibly) high costs should be on me as the reviving party, not on the person who's been kind enough to set up a place for me to recover.

Sorry for the mis-speak in my last post... It's been a long week. ;)

[thurgond]

I see Welcome Centers as the most troublesome since they may give a bad impression to brand new players. For Welcome Centers - tribe at least 2 months old, must have an active subscriber or the Welcome Center goes inactive, must be approved by a guide.

Infirmaries are less troublesome since trapped players can die again quickly if they don't eat and drink. Set by tribes at least one month old, able to be removed by guides.

I don't see how tying to script a clear path off tribe land would be worth the effort of coding.

[Xsyon]

The Test Server is up with revisions. Here's what I've decided on and set up so far.

Guides now have a panel that allows them to easily check on and teleport to any tribe totems, welcome stations or infirmaries.

Guides can revoke welcome station and infirmary privileges if needed. These apply to the tribe itself and not a specific building. Reinstating these privileges will require a Guide.

If a tribe's privilege is revoked, the tribe member will see a message on their building to contact a Guide with a button linking directly to the help desk.

If this is abused, I will try the following:

- Requiring a tribe to exist for 1-2 weeks (for infirmaries) before allowing an active infirmary.
- Turning off infirmary and welcome station privileges by default and requiring Guide approval. This would be the last recourse.

Infirmaries have been updated (with the notes on the Infirmary Thread (http://www.xsyon.com/showthread.php/9409-06-22-2015-Feedback-Request-Infirmary-(Test-Server)) updated as well).

[Kross]

Sounds good but what about inactive tribes? At what point are we going to turn them off? 30 real days of inactivity would be my recommendation.

I also would limit this feature to only tribes in low and medium danger zones. Hard and extreme should remain hard and extreme.

[Xsyon]

Sounds good but what about inactive tribes? At what point are we going to turn them off? 30 real days of inactivity would be my recommendation.

Right now Infirmaries turn off after 7 real days and Welcome Stations turn off after 3 real days. Both become active again if a tribe member logs in. Active subscriptions don't automatically update these functions so players will need to actually be active and logging in.