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Dune Edenbaum
05-09-2010, 11:41 AM
From what I've read in the site. Magic would be included into the game. However, from what I've seen magic doesn't seem to be in the game yet. is magic even going to actually be added for players to use? Or is it supposed to be added with the inclusion of religion?

Keno
05-09-2010, 12:05 PM
Hopefully its never added. We don't need it ruining another game like it did to DF.

Iron Maiden
05-09-2010, 12:13 PM
Keno wrote:

Hopefully its never added. We don't need it ruining another game like it did to DF.



Agreed, if any sort of magic is to be had i wouldn't want to see anything more than a heal here and there and mayb some Stam2HP/HP2Stam type of shit.

Focus on melee/archery imo :)

Largion
05-09-2010, 12:15 PM
Keno wrote:

Hopefully its never added. We don't need it ruining another game like it did to DF.

Magic does not have to be MM spam. It can be levitate, heal, cure, create food, polymorph, stonewall and tons of outher fun stuff.

Keno
05-09-2010, 12:19 PM
Largion wrote:

Keno wrote:

Hopefully its never added. We don't need it ruining another game like it did to DF.

Magic does not have to be MM spam. It can be levitate, heal, cure, create food, polymorph, stonewall and tons of outher fun stuff.
Utilities at most. Anyway, the melée combat still needs a lot of improvement, so let's take it a step at a time.

sicarius
05-09-2010, 12:33 PM
personally I would like to see it exclusively to religion, for buffs/healing and utilities. Like someone said DF was ruined for months by fireball spamming grinders.

Cautious small step implementation is the best way, and limited power. From what I can see this game is not build for magic and if magic isn't confined to a support role there could be major consequences.

Jadzia
05-09-2010, 12:47 PM
So far this is the only official information:

Xsyon wrote:

edaw22 wrote:


1. What forms of combat are there in prelude and in the future?
[i]
For example, we have seen that there is melee type combat, will there be Ranged including but not limited to; Bows and crossbows, Guns and magic? and will there be mounted combat?

Melee and ranged for the Prelude. In the future, other options are planned.


Xsyon wrote:

There is no magic in the Prelude. This is a planned evolution as the world expands.

Greawulfe
05-09-2010, 08:04 PM
[/quote]
Xsyon wrote:

There is no magic in the Prelude. This is a planned evolution as the world expands.[/quote]

Ah so there will be "discoverable" magic in the future? And I would expect to have some forms in all three alignments? A healer with high faith, a neutral levitation, or an evil corruption? Will magic be support only or evolve to compete with melee and ranged? Am I tired of typing in questions? Yes but the carrot has been dangled, I just hope I'm not the horse off by himself, holding a stick with a carrot hanging from it. :P

kiwibird
05-09-2010, 09:06 PM
Magic is planned for the game, in what form is not officially released yet. Wait and see what happens, I'm sure devs are listening, and if they aren't well it can be changed.

Chile
05-09-2010, 09:33 PM
Next someone will want orcs! WTF!

kiwibird
05-09-2010, 09:35 PM
Orcs are already in the game...duh...my avatar is a black 13yo boy who is so evil looking its worse than a bloody orc :P

Who's to say they aren't planned, who's to say we wont see unicorns, Werewolves and vampires. This isn't earth after all, and ideas had to come from some form of truth.

Shrimps
05-09-2010, 10:04 PM
Utility magic would be the most I'd put into the game, as it's been stated before, attack magic can easily ruin a game like it did DF.

necoo
05-09-2010, 10:20 PM
i for one would like destruction magic in this game... but any attack magic that would be put into this game you would also have to make sure that it could be deflected, blocked, redirected, countered, evaded etc... none of that "i summoned a meteor shower and ice storm that you can't get rid of" crap... those instant attacks and the ones that can't be avoided is what makes magic a spam fests

Hurk
05-10-2010, 01:53 AM
Must say I like the realism of the game and adding magic will ruin it most likely. 95% of MMOs seem to give into magic class and it always ends up hurting gameplay and realism.

Healing can be Syringes, pills, bandages, salves/ointments, etc without needing a 'magic class' to cast heal spells and crap. As for offensive magic, hopefully they don't add that either 'hey look fire shot from hands just by me thinking about it.. WHEEEEE!'

This game seems groundbreaking, hope they don't devolve into the standard crap I'm trying to get away from.

Greawulfe
05-10-2010, 08:20 AM
I have to agree with the "no attack magic" even though I always play a mage. But to say that no magic whatsoever would be a msitake also. So what types? Healing, stat boosts, corruptions and their removals, bleeds or drains, and the spells like levitate, lockpick etc. OP mages have ruined many a game but if balanced right it can be a 3 sided game.......melee, magic and ranged. If its not balanced its a one-sided game and won't grow and progress like you guys are saying. This game has tons of potential. I'll be at the Prelude with my bent stick and glowing palm. :P

Chile
05-10-2010, 12:30 PM
As soon as I see fatty toon with animal skin undies throwing a shuriken fireball at me I'm out (excludes turtles of fury).

Farmerbob
05-10-2010, 12:57 PM
Shamanic/Totemic magic would be awesome, if it can be kept from getting corrupted by Tolkein/D&D magic.

I would love Xsyon to be low Fantasy, not high fantasy. We already seem to be avoiding the dwarves, elves, trolls, and orcs, which is a good start :)

PANZERBUNNY
05-10-2010, 01:04 PM
Chile wrote:

Next someone will want orcs! WTF!

Magic has always been slotted for introduction later in the game.

newb it up more plz.

Alfred
05-10-2010, 01:16 PM
Welcome to Xsyon! WE GOTS TEH FIREBALLZ AND MAGICZ!!

http://www.freewebs.com/amka47/MU%20ONLINE.jpg

If we start getting fireswords of the bear +2, I'm out as well.

Largion
05-10-2010, 01:18 PM
I love when the weap is dubble the size of the char. :laugh:

PANZERBUNNY
05-10-2010, 01:20 PM
Alfred wrote:

Welcome to Xsyon! WE GOTS TEH FIREBALLZ AND MAGICZ!!

http://www.freewebs.com/amka47/MU%20ONLINE.jpg

If we start getting fireswords of the bear +2, I'm out as well.

Its one thing to give up on a game that changes from its path and includes aspects you dont enjoy.

Its another to go "I'm out of here if this is included", when it is known that it will eventually be put into the game.

Read up on the game you plan to play a bit more.

Alfred
05-10-2010, 01:23 PM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Alfred wrote:

Welcome to Xsyon! WE GOTS TEH FIREBALLZ AND MAGICZ!!

http://www.freewebs.com/amka47/MU%20ONLINE.jpg

If we start getting fireswords of the bear +2, I'm out as well.

Its one thing to give up on a game that changes from its path and includes aspects you dont enjoy.

Its another to go "I'm out of here if this is included", when it is known that it will eventually be put into the game.

Read up on the game you plan to play a bit more.
If the game truly was being designed to look like that, you wouldn't have any people here. :)

Jadzia
05-10-2010, 01:24 PM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Alfred wrote:

Welcome to Xsyon! WE GOTS TEH FIREBALLZ AND MAGICZ!!

If we start getting fireswords of the bear +2, I'm out as well.

Its one thing to give up on a game that changes from its path and includes aspects you dont enjoy.

Its another to go "I'm out of here if this is included", when it is known that it will eventually be put into the game.

Read up on the game you plan to play a bit more.
It is announced that we're gonna have fireswords ? I doubt that.

PANZERBUNNY
05-10-2010, 01:38 PM
Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Alfred wrote:

Welcome to Xsyon! WE GOTS TEH FIREBALLZ AND MAGICZ!!

If we start getting fireswords of the bear +2, I'm out as well.

Its one thing to give up on a game that changes from its path and includes aspects you dont enjoy.

Its another to go "I'm out of here if this is included", when it is known that it will eventually be put into the game.

Read up on the game you plan to play a bit more.
It is announced that we're gonna have fireswords ? I doubt that.

Oh, I'm sure we're going to see things of that nature. Your doubt is baseless.
Spells that enchance your melee weapon are a given.

Largion
05-10-2010, 01:41 PM
Just look what they did with UO gear. :(

Alfred
05-10-2010, 02:18 PM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Alfred wrote:

Welcome to Xsyon! WE GOTS TEH FIREBALLZ AND MAGICZ!!

If we start getting fireswords of the bear +2, I'm out as well.

Its one thing to give up on a game that changes from its path and includes aspects you dont enjoy.

Its another to go "I'm out of here if this is included", when it is known that it will eventually be put into the game.

Read up on the game you plan to play a bit more.
It is announced that we're gonna have fireswords ? I doubt that.

Oh, I'm sure we're going to see things of that nature. Your doubt is baseless.
Spells that enchance your melee weapon are a given.
When it comes to Xsyon knowledge and lore, you are talking to the most well-informed person on the forums. If you're looking for someone to have a "base" for their claims, you've found her. If we're looking for baseless opinions, I'm looking at yours. I have to give it to you though; sure, you have failed to bring up any arguments to back up our claim, but you honestly explain your opinion is based on belief.

It's not that big a deal, but this game is going to be about social interaction and as much realism as fun permits - flaming swords and magic missiles is way over the top. If you disagree, I suggest switching to World of Warcraft.

Chile
05-10-2010, 04:00 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oWAb5NVALw

The cape and hood look good on you panzerbunny.

Spitfire5
05-10-2010, 04:01 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ekugPKqFw

Owned

Sarg
05-10-2010, 04:45 PM
Alfred wrote:


It's not that big a deal, but this game is going to be about social interaction and as much realism as fun permits - flaming swords and magic missiles is way over the top. If you disagree, I suggest switching to World of Warcraft.

No reason why arcana can't be social. There's plenty of potential in rituals, circles, group enchantments, city blessings and the like. Of course, that doesn't fit terribly well with direct damage type spells as they can't scale very far and not be insta-win. The concept of a deity taking a city under his/her wing is one of the oldest tricks in the book, and often led to a great deal of strife. Religion in general is one of the top historical reasons for killing each other.

ChildOfXsyon
05-10-2010, 04:49 PM
It might be interesting to see magic used to effect crafting/gathering or building. Maybe to aid in speeding up the process, or increase productivity.

Diocletian
05-10-2010, 05:00 PM
Well, don't be surprised if the gods take an interest in our mortal conflicts.

PANZERBUNNY
05-10-2010, 07:00 PM
Alfred wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Alfred wrote:

Welcome to Xsyon! WE GOTS TEH FIREBALLZ AND MAGICZ!!

If we start getting fireswords of the bear +2, I'm out as well.

Its one thing to give up on a game that changes from its path and includes aspects you dont enjoy.

Its another to go "I'm out of here if this is included", when it is known that it will eventually be put into the game.

Read up on the game you plan to play a bit more.
It is announced that we're gonna have fireswords ? I doubt that.

Oh, I'm sure we're going to see things of that nature. Your doubt is baseless.
Spells that enchance your melee weapon are a given.
When it comes to Xsyon knowledge and lore, you are talking to the most well-informed person on the forums. If you're looking for someone to have a "base" for their claims, you've found her. If we're looking for baseless opinions, I'm looking at yours. I have to give it to you though; sure, you have failed to bring up any arguments to back up our claim, but you honestly explain your opinion is based on belief.

It's not that big a deal, but this game is going to be about social interaction and as much realism as fun permits - flaming swords and magic missiles is way over the top. If you disagree, I suggest switching to World of Warcraft.

Show me an mmo with magic that doesn't have offensive uses and I'll bow in defeat.

If xsyon wishes to be "different" for that reason alone, I question the judgement of such a call.

I have trouble believing that magic will simply be introduced to speed up my "food pot" while making meals.

And by social interaction, do you mean burying an axe in your enemies head? We'll see magic that will assist in that.

Chile
05-10-2010, 07:43 PM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Alfred wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Alfred wrote:

Welcome to Xsyon! WE GOTS TEH FIREBALLZ AND MAGICZ!!

If we start getting fireswords of the bear +2, I'm out as well.

Its one thing to give up on a game that changes from its path and includes aspects you dont enjoy.

Its another to go "I'm out of here if this is included", when it is known that it will eventually be put into the game.

Read up on the game you plan to play a bit more.
It is announced that we're gonna have fireswords ? I doubt that.

Oh, I'm sure we're going to see things of that nature. Your doubt is baseless.
Spells that enchance your melee weapon are a given.
When it comes to Xsyon knowledge and lore, you are talking to the most well-informed person on the forums. If you're looking for someone to have a "base" for their claims, you've found her. If we're looking for baseless opinions, I'm looking at yours. I have to give it to you though; sure, you have failed to bring up any arguments to back up our claim, but you honestly explain your opinion is based on belief.

It's not that big a deal, but this game is going to be about social interaction and as much realism as fun permits - flaming swords and magic missiles is way over the top. If you disagree, I suggest switching to World of Warcraft.

Show me an mmo with magic that doesn't have offensive uses and I'll bow in defeat.

If xsyon wishes to be "different" for that reason alone, I question the judgement of such a call.

I have trouble believing that magic will simply be introduced to speed up my "food pot" while making meals.

And by social interaction, do you mean burying an axe in your enemies head? We'll see magic that will assist in that.

I could see the use of supernatural type stuff used in conjuncture with religion spirits or gods but not fireballs, lightning from finger tips or magic missiles.

w0rm
05-11-2010, 02:57 AM
Magic? Why not, just not make it powerful in PvP.

Shrimps
05-11-2010, 03:21 AM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Alfred wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Alfred wrote:

Welcome to Xsyon! WE GOTS TEH FIREBALLZ AND MAGICZ!!

If we start getting fireswords of the bear +2, I'm out as well.

Its one thing to give up on a game that changes from its path and includes aspects you dont enjoy.

Its another to go "I'm out of here if this is included", when it is known that it will eventually be put into the game.

Read up on the game you plan to play a bit more.
It is announced that we're gonna have fireswords ? I doubt that.

Oh, I'm sure we're going to see things of that nature. Your doubt is baseless.
Spells that enchance your melee weapon are a given.
When it comes to Xsyon knowledge and lore, you are talking to the most well-informed person on the forums. If you're looking for someone to have a "base" for their claims, you've found her. If we're looking for baseless opinions, I'm looking at yours. I have to give it to you though; sure, you have failed to bring up any arguments to back up our claim, but you honestly explain your opinion is based on belief.

It's not that big a deal, but this game is going to be about social interaction and as much realism as fun permits - flaming swords and magic missiles is way over the top. If you disagree, I suggest switching to World of Warcraft.

Show me an mmo with magic that doesn't have offensive uses and I'll bow in defeat.

If xsyon wishes to be "different" for that reason alone, I question the judgement of such a call.

I have trouble believing that magic will simply be introduced to speed up my "food pot" while making meals.

And by social interaction, do you mean burying an axe in your enemies head? We'll see magic that will assist in that.



First off I apologize for quoting all that, but trying to wittle it down would make my head hurt more than yours does trying to read it.

Also, I very much doubt that magic will be in the game just because it's listed that way, if the community doesn't want it then I doubt they'd add it.

I do have to agree though, if it comes down to some dude with a wooden penis in his hands throwing firey balls at me, I'm probably gone. Sorry if I don't subscribe to the whole nuclear fallout causes your hands to spew fire, agenda.

Darkfall tried that and...yeah, not so good.

Okie
05-11-2010, 03:58 AM
Shrimps wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Alfred wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

Alfred wrote:

Welcome to Xsyon! WE GOTS TEH FIREBALLZ AND MAGICZ!!

If we start getting fireswords of the bear +2, I'm out as well.

Its one thing to give up on a game that changes from its path and includes aspects you dont enjoy.

Its another to go "I'm out of here if this is included", when it is known that it will eventually be put into the game.

Read up on the game you plan to play a bit more.
It is announced that we're gonna have fireswords ? I doubt that.

Oh, I'm sure we're going to see things of that nature. Your doubt is baseless.
Spells that enchance your melee weapon are a given.
When it comes to Xsyon knowledge and lore, you are talking to the most well-informed person on the forums. If you're looking for someone to have a "base" for their claims, you've found her. If we're looking for baseless opinions, I'm looking at yours. I have to give it to you though; sure, you have failed to bring up any arguments to back up our claim, but you honestly explain your opinion is based on belief.

It's not that big a deal, but this game is going to be about social interaction and as much realism as fun permits - flaming swords and magic missiles is way over the top. If you disagree, I suggest switching to World of Warcraft.

Show me an mmo with magic that doesn't have offensive uses and I'll bow in defeat.

If xsyon wishes to be "different" for that reason alone, I question the judgement of such a call.

I have trouble believing that magic will simply be introduced to speed up my "food pot" while making meals.

And by social interaction, do you mean burying an axe in your enemies head? We'll see magic that will assist in that.



First off I apologize for quoting all that, but trying to wittle it down would make my head hurt more than yours does trying to read it.

Also, I very much doubt that magic will be in the game just because it's listed that way, if the community doesn't want it then I doubt they'd add it.

I do have to agree though, if it comes down to some dude with a wooden penis in his hands throwing firey balls at me, I'm probably gone. Sorry if I don't subscribe to the whole nuclear fallout causes your hands to spew fire, agenda.

Darkfall tried that and...yeah, not so good.

I do not apologize for quoting this and down with wooden penis fireballs

PANZERBUNNY
05-11-2010, 06:11 AM
From what I read on magic it seemed in the same vein as shadowrun. ie. The old gods of world awaken. However they choose to represent them.

The world isn't solely going to be populated by mutants and wasteland raiders. We're going to see supernatual features in the game and I dont see why magic is "teh g@y", and that acceptable.

Frankly, I would find darkfall boring if it was just melee/archery. You're saying that running up close to your target and circling each other quickly while spamming the melee button is okay, but jump casting or offensive magic is lame? 0_o. Right.

The diversity of combat is what will keep people interested in that feature. How its done does matter, but to say "if I see fireballs I'm tucking my tail between my legs and going back to hello kitty", is shortsighted and silly.

ChildOfXsyon
05-11-2010, 07:10 AM
I'm all for them implementing magic and religion. Personally I like diversity in games, but the combat and other aspects need to be balanced. If any of the mechanics of the game are off balanced they will crash the game like a spin top, which was made off balanced. Compared to the perfectly balanced top that keeps spinning.

Alfred
05-11-2010, 07:20 AM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:

From what I read on magic it seemed in the same vein as shadowrun. ie. The old gods of world awaken. However they choose to represent them.

The world isn't solely going to be populated by mutants and wasteland raiders. We're going to see supernatual features in the game and I dont see why magic is "teh g@y", and that acceptable.

Frankly, I would find darkfall boring if it was just melee/archery. You're saying that running up close to your target and circling each other quickly while spamming the melee button is okay, but jump casting or offensive magic is lame? 0_o. Right.

The diversity of combat is what will keep people interested in that feature. How its done does matter, but to say "if I see fireballs I'm tucking my tail between my legs and going back to hello kitty", is shortsighted and silly.
You, sir, are either an irl-wizard or look like this:
http://www.guildbot.com/gfx/wow01/wowkid.jpg

Darkfall is a supreme example of why magic fails in a game designed to appeal to smart people with an organizational sense of tactics. The giant ball (called magic missile) spam never made any sense and I fail to see how anybody could see otherwise.

In a game like Xsyon, you are invited to try out interesting social schemes in tems of tribes, economy, politics, cultivisation etc. Magic spam is just not part of that kind of mature planning.

http://onlinetoplist.com/img/save/muonline4.jpg
I R PANZERBUNNY AND I WANTZ TEH GAME 2 LOOK LEET LIEK DIS!

Largion
05-11-2010, 07:31 AM
Alfred wrote:

PANZERBUNNY wrote:

From what I read on magic it seemed in the same vein as shadowrun. ie. The old gods of world awaken. However they choose to represent them.

The world isn't solely going to be populated by mutants and wasteland raiders. We're going to see supernatual features in the game and I dont see why magic is "teh g@y", and that acceptable.

Frankly, I would find darkfall boring if it was just melee/archery. You're saying that running up close to your target and circling each other quickly while spamming the melee button is okay, but jump casting or offensive magic is lame? 0_o. Right.

The diversity of combat is what will keep people interested in that feature. How its done does matter, but to say "if I see fireballs I'm tucking my tail between my legs and going back to hello kitty", is shortsighted and silly.
You, sir, are either an irl-wizard or look like this:
http://www.guildbot.com/gfx/wow01/wowkid.jpg



his cloak of Invisibility is broken!

http://blog.newsarama.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10087/WowNeedle.jpg

Chile
05-11-2010, 09:37 AM
PANZERBUNNY wrote:

From what I read on magic it seemed in the same vein as shadowrun. ie. The old gods of world awaken. However they choose to represent them.

The world isn't solely going to be populated by mutants and wasteland raiders. We're going to see supernatual features in the game and I dont see why magic is "teh g@y", and that acceptable.

Frankly, I would find darkfall boring if it was just melee/archery. You're saying that running up close to your target and circling each other quickly while spamming the melee button is okay, but jump casting or offensive magic is lame? 0_o. Right.

The diversity of combat is what will keep people interested in that feature. How its done does matter, but to say "if I see fireballs I'm tucking my tail between my legs and going back to hello kitty", is shortsighted and silly.

If magic is used in some form in the future, supernatural or mythology it will be a small portion and the minority in game. How do I know this? Just read the story then read the 'About, Features and FAQ pages and you will see little mention of it except in one paragraph at the beginning, 'socery'. If it was going to be the majority or equal to non-magical combat, you would see it strewn throughout those pages and repeated in text.

When I first read the site, the about and features page, magic did not even enter my mind as a major feature nor did it stand out, of course this does not mean it won't be in game at some point in some form but it won't look like the magic in D&D, WOW, Guild Wars, etc. (so no shuriken fireballs or magic wands)

Sarg
05-11-2010, 09:41 AM
Either that, or the intention is for magic to be discovered over time as more "old god" influence seeps in, starting with trivial cantrips and growing into significantly more powerful incantations and rituals down the road. We just don't know.

Alfred
05-11-2010, 09:51 AM
Sarg wrote:

Either that, or the intention is for magic to be discovered over time as more "old god" influence seeps in, starting with trivial cantrips and growing into significantly more powerful incantations and rituals down the road. We just don't know.
AND DEN HAEV GIANT FIREBOLLZ!! YAAAAAAY!!!!!

http://www.live-roleplaying.co.uk/live/action/roleplaying/images/larp-dymwan-1.jpg
MASTOR-SAGE SARG GIVES US HOPE!!!

Derek
05-11-2010, 10:05 AM
What's the difference between a bullet and a fire bolt spell? What's the difference between an AOE rain of fire spell and an RPG? It all comes down to how much damage ranged will do compared to melee and also how effective AOE will be in combat.

It doesn't matter if you call it a spell, or a grenade. If the AOE is too effective in combat, it allows for less aiming, and therefore, less skill. This just needs to be balanced.

Honestly, would you really care if the game allowed mages when you can have heavy assault machine guns and RPG's?

It all comes down to balance and rewarding higher skilled players with the victory.

Alfred
05-11-2010, 10:14 AM
Derek wrote:

What's the difference between a bullet and a fire bolt spell? What's the difference between an AOE rain of fire spell and an RPG? It all comes down to how much damage ranged will do compared to melee and also how effective AOE will be in combat.

It doesn't matter if you call it a spell, or a grenade. If the AOE is too effective in combat, it allows for less aiming, and therefore, less skill. This just needs to be balanced.

Honestly, would you really care if the game allowed mages when you can have heavy assault machine guns and RPG's?

It all comes down to balance and rewarding higher skilled players with the victory.
I'll tell you what's the diffrence. Bullets exist - fireballs don't. Grenades exist - "rain of fire spell" doesn't. Arrows exist, FIRESWORD OF MUGLURK +22 doesn't! It is a product of a very simply and (nowadays) childish imagination.

Sure, we can accept some deviancy from reality as long as it serves the purpose. The purpose, as I have stated earlier, is about complex social interaction (economy, politics, diplomacy, infrastructure etc). Fireballs and giant swords are simple distractions on the way to the road of mature gameplay.

ChildOfXsyon
05-11-2010, 10:16 AM
They should introduce a 'Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch'! Kills an enemy in a single blast.

Kitsume
05-11-2010, 10:23 AM
I would prefer to see more of a Native American or ritualistic/shamanistic types of magic. Something that uses ceremonies, fetishes and charms.

I don't remember where Jooky or Virtus posted it, but I seem to remember something about the magic sources would be based on the area the game is based in. There is actually a rich mosaic of items in Native American mythologies, I don't think an MMO has attempted using this as an inspiration before. The single player game 'Prey' made a good attempt to mix in NA beliefs, though I think the Sci-Fi elements ended up overwhelming the story.

Largion
05-11-2010, 10:31 AM
Kitsume wrote:

I would prefer to see more of a Native American or ritualistic/shamanistic types of magic. Something that uses ceremonies, fetishes and charms.

I don't remember where Jooky or Virtus posted it, but I seem to remember something about the magic sources would be based on the area the game is based in. There is actually a rich mosaic of items in Native American mythologies, I don't think an MMO has attempted using this as an inspiration before. The single player game 'Prey' made a good attempt to mix in NA beliefs, though I think the Sci-Fi elements ended up overwhelming the story.

I have no ide what Native American magic is. :(

ChildOfXsyon
05-11-2010, 10:35 AM
How about some voodoo? It doesn't have to be as over the top as Hollywood portrays it and it could tie into the whole afterlife/prema-death.

Derek
05-11-2010, 10:43 AM
Alfred wrote:


I'll tell you what's the diffrence. Bullets exist - fireballs don't. Grenades exist - "rain of fire spell" doesn't. Arrows exist, FIRESWORD OF MUGLURK +22 doesn't! It is a product of a very simply and (nowadays) childish imagination.

Sure, we can accept some deviancy from reality as long as it serves the purpose. The purpose, as I have stated earlier, is about complex social interaction (economy, politics, diplomacy, infrastructure etc). Fireballs and giant swords are simple distractions on the way to the road of mature gameplay.

Ok... So are mutants also childish? Because they will most definitely be in-game. And what if these mutants have special mutant abilities (could be considered magic). Would you put those in the same category?

Alfred
05-11-2010, 10:50 AM
Derek wrote:

Alfred wrote:


I'll tell you what's the diffrence. Bullets exist - fireballs don't. Grenades exist - "rain of fire spell" doesn't. Arrows exist, FIRESWORD OF MUGLURK +22 doesn't! It is a product of a very simply and (nowadays) childish imagination.

Sure, we can accept some deviancy from reality as long as it serves the purpose. The purpose, as I have stated earlier, is about complex social interaction (economy, politics, diplomacy, infrastructure etc). Fireballs and giant swords are simple distractions on the way to the road of mature gameplay.

Ok... So are mutants also childish? Because they will most definitely be in-game. And what if these mutants have special mutant abilities (could be considered magic). Would you put those in the same category?
Nuclear radiation does cause gene mutation (which most lickely would have killed off most of the living things) and it's a forgivable stretch for the imagination to assume some could have survived and given birth to disformed offsprings. Them having magic powers is a diffrent question whatsoever.

Chile
05-11-2010, 10:54 AM
Alfred wrote:

Derek wrote:

What's the difference between a bullet and a fire bolt spell? What's the difference between an AOE rain of fire spell and an RPG? It all comes down to how much damage ranged will do compared to melee and also how effective AOE will be in combat.

It doesn't matter if you call it a spell, or a grenade. If the AOE is too effective in combat, it allows for less aiming, and therefore, less skill. This just needs to be balanced.

Honestly, would you really care if the game allowed mages when you can have heavy assault machine guns and RPG's?

It all comes down to balance and rewarding higher skilled players with the victory.
I'll tell you what's the diffrence. Bullets exist - fireballs don't. Grenades exist - "rain of fire spell" doesn't. Arrows exist, FIRESWORD OF MUGLURK +22 doesn't! It is a product of a very simply and (nowadays) childish imagination.

Sure, we can accept some deviancy from reality as long as it serves the purpose. The purpose, as I have stated earlier, is about complex social interaction (economy, politics, diplomacy, infrastructure etc). Fireballs and giant swords are simple distractions on the way to the road of mature gameplay.

You mean there is no such thing as Fireword of Muglurk +22? *sniff*

Derek
05-11-2010, 10:59 AM
Alfred wrote:


Nuclear radiation does cause gene mutation (which most lickely would have killed off most of the living things) and it's a forgivable stretch for the imagination to assume some could have survived and given birth to disformed offsprings. Them having magic powers is a diffrent question whatsoever.

Magic is just a term for that which cannot be explained. I believe the main issues people are worried about are:

(1) Does it fit with the lore?

(2) How does its effectiveness compare to other forms of ranged/melee damage?

The answer to #1 is yes because it is stated in the lore that there will be some form of magic (once discovered). Here is a direct quote from the home page:


A world that once existed only in the realm of mythology, legend and imagination has become concrete and very real. You have forgotten the past and are welcomed by a new primitive future.

With the disruption of the planet, ancient gods awake to once again exert their powers over the earth. The lords of nature have revived the wastelands, eradicating and subverting the remnants of modern technology. Creatures of mutation and mythology now populate the land. The ways of swords and sorcery have replaced the path of science and progress.


If the answer to #2 is that it will be very effective, especially AOE magic, then we have a problem. Everyone will become mages no matter how difficult they make the grind and it will be less skilled/varied combat mechanics.

Alfred
05-11-2010, 11:03 AM
Derek, you completely missed the point.

Derek
05-11-2010, 11:18 AM
Alfred wrote:

Derek, you completely missed the point.

I'm trying to get to the essence of what the community is really worried about with magic and clearly stated what I think those issues are.

Forgive me, but I'm not really sure what your point is other than you don't like the FIRESWORD OF MUGLURK because it's childish and doesn't exist. Mutants don't exist either, nor do many things mentioned in the lore.

If you want absolute realism, there's always Battleground Europe WWII.

Alfred
05-11-2010, 11:22 AM
Derek wrote:

Alfred wrote:

Derek, you completely missed the point.

I'm trying to get to the essence of what the community is really worried about with magic and clearly stated what I think those issues are.

Forgive me, but I'm not really sure what your point is other than you don't like the FIRESWORD OF MUGLURK because it's childish and doesn't exist. Mutants don't exist either, nor do many things mentioned in the lore.

If you want absolute realism, there's always Battleground Europe WWII.

As I have stated before: Sure, we can accept some deviancy from reality as long as it serves the purpose. The purpose, as I have stated earlier, is about complex social interaction (economy, politics, diplomacy, infrastructure etc). Fireballs and giant swords are simple distractions on the way to the road of mature gameplay.

Otherwise, it truly is unnecessary.

Derek
05-11-2010, 11:26 AM
Alfred wrote:

Derek wrote:

Alfred wrote:

Derek, you completely missed the point.

I'm trying to get to the essence of what the community is really worried about with magic and clearly stated what I think those issues are.

Forgive me, but I'm not really sure what your point is other than you don't like the FIRESWORD OF MUGLURK because it's childish and doesn't exist. Mutants don't exist either, nor do many things mentioned in the lore.

If you want absolute realism, there's always Battleground Europe WWII.

As I have stated before: Sure, we can accept some deviancy from reality as long as it serves the purpose. The purpose, as I have stated earlier, is about complex social interaction (economy, politics, diplomacy, infrastructure etc). Fireballs and giant swords are simple distractions on the way to the road of mature gameplay.

Otherwise, it truly is unnecessary.

Please explain how magic and complex social interaction (economy, politics, diplomacy, infrastructure etc) are mutually exclusive.

Alfred
05-11-2010, 11:37 AM
Derek wrote:

Alfred wrote:

Derek wrote:

Alfred wrote:

Derek, you completely missed the point.

I'm trying to get to the essence of what the community is really worried about with magic and clearly stated what I think those issues are.

Forgive me, but I'm not really sure what your point is other than you don't like the FIRESWORD OF MUGLURK because it's childish and doesn't exist. Mutants don't exist either, nor do many things mentioned in the lore.

If you want absolute realism, there's always Battleground Europe WWII.

As I have stated before: Sure, we can accept some deviancy from reality as long as it serves the purpose. The purpose, as I have stated earlier, is about complex social interaction (economy, politics, diplomacy, infrastructure etc). Fireballs and giant swords are simple distractions on the way to the road of mature gameplay.

Otherwise, it truly is unnecessary.

Please explain how magic and complex social interaction (economy, politics, diplomacy, infrastructure etc) are mutually exclusive.
It definitely depends on the sort of magic we're talking about. I'm talking about fireballs. Chain-lightning and supa-leet effects you get when hitting something. These make a game look Korean and far from mature. Get my drift?

Derek
05-11-2010, 11:52 AM
OK, I will stop playing devils advocate now ;) because I think I know what you are trying to get at. You don't want to see big oversized fire swords, fairies, and orcs with fireballs shooting out of their arse because it makes for a less mature game setting.

I completely agree. My point is that some of the worries about magic are unfounded where people are saying they will drop the game if they see any form of it introduced.

You're argument, I think, is more of art direction, and rest assured, I believe the art team is shooting for more realistic graphics than what is mentioned above. You could start a thread in the Dev section and ask Draug to comment on it.

What I'm trying to get across is that there will be some form of magic implemented. I don't think it's going to be the traditional MMO magic but something more in line with the gritty apocalypse setting.

Alfred
05-11-2010, 12:28 PM
Derek wrote:

OK, I will stop playing devils advocate now ;) because I think I know what you are trying to get at. You don't want to see big oversized fire swords, fairies, and orcs with fireballs shooting out of their arse because it makes for a less mature game setting.

I completely agree. My point is that some of the worries about magic are unfounded where people are saying they will drop the game if they see any form of it introduced.

You're argument, I think, is more of art direction, and rest assured, I believe the art team is shooting for more realistic graphics than what is mentioned above. You could start a thread in the Dev section and ask Draug to comment on it.

What I'm trying to get across is that there will be some form of magic implemented. I don't think it's going to be the traditional MMO magic but something more in line with the gritty apocalypse setting.
Sounds quite formidable. Magic can be implemented in any ways. As long as it's mature and not too visual, it may be tolerated!

Chile
05-11-2010, 01:31 PM
Alfred wrote:

Derek wrote:

OK, I will stop playing devils advocate now ;) because I think I know what you are trying to get at. You don't want to see big oversized fire swords, fairies, and orcs with fireballs shooting out of their arse because it makes for a less mature game setting.

I completely agree. My point is that some of the worries about magic are unfounded where people are saying they will drop the game if they see any form of it introduced.

You're argument, I think, is more of art direction, and rest assured, I believe the art team is shooting for more realistic graphics than what is mentioned above. You could start a thread in the Dev section and ask Draug to comment on it.

What I'm trying to get across is that there will be some form of magic implemented. I don't think it's going to be the traditional MMO magic but something more in line with the gritty apocalypse setting.
Sounds quite formidable. Magic can be implemented in any ways. As long as it's mature and not too visual, it may be tolerated!

Agreed! Must be mature and fit within the game without becoming the wizards apprentice playground. Shurikens will not be tolerated!

YakCast
05-11-2010, 02:03 PM
Every MMO needs magic or technology in it, or else it will get boring. In this case magic fits perfectly. Shaman's would fit in into this setting. Being able to cast buffs, heals, and summon a pet, etc.

Shrimps
05-11-2010, 02:10 PM
I never said I'd drop the game if any magic was introduced, I said I probably would if I saw wooden penis wielding, giant ball throwing old guys runnning around in a toga. (you wonder why people think magic is gay?)

Native Americans , or as most call them down south, indians, have a much different cobcept of magic than what most think.

As long as everyone is running around screaming Falcon Punch and throwing giant balls of doom out of nowhere then that's fine.

As for the mention of sorcery, it's mentioned once I believe and only in a single word. Sorcery back in the medieval days mostly consisted of throwing chemicals into the fire to scare villagers and looking creepy in a robe. Not so much of the stuff you see in games.

YakCast
05-11-2010, 02:18 PM
Shrimps wrote:

I never said I'd drop the game if any magic was introduced, I said I probably would if I saw wooden penis wielding, giant ball throwing old guys runnning around in a toga. (you wonder why people think magic is gay?)

Native Americans , or as most call them down south, indians, have a much different cobcept of magic than what most think.

As long as everyone is running around screaming Falcon Punch and throwing giant balls of doom out of nowhere then that's fine.

As for the mention of sorcery, it's mentioned once I believe and only in a single word. Sorcery back in the medieval days mostly consisted of throwing chemicals into the fire to scare villagers and looking creepy in a robe. Not so much of the stuff you see in games.

You are basically assuming that the developers don't know what they are doing and don't know how to make magic fit into their game. I have never ever played a MMO where the magic didn't fit the game. Before you call me on this, I want a very specific example. Also, you may want to run spell check next time. :)

Alfred
05-11-2010, 02:33 PM
YakCast wrote:

Shrimps wrote:

I never said I'd drop the game if any magic was introduced, I said I probably would if I saw wooden penis wielding, giant ball throwing old guys runnning around in a toga. (you wonder why people think magic is gay?)

Native Americans , or as most call them down south, indians, have a much different cobcept of magic than what most think.

As long as everyone is running around screaming Falcon Punch and throwing giant balls of doom out of nowhere then that's fine.

As for the mention of sorcery, it's mentioned once I believe and only in a single word. Sorcery back in the medieval days mostly consisted of throwing chemicals into the fire to scare villagers and looking creepy in a robe. Not so much of the stuff you see in games.

You are basically assuming that the developers don't know what they are doing and don't know how to make magic fit into their game. I have never ever played a MMO where the magic didn't fit the game. Before you call me on this, I want a very specific example. Also, you may want to run spell check next time. :)
There's no need for hostility. He is setting restrictions to our liberal thoughts. Some truly are ready for the game to go beyond that.

Also, if you knew what he did to the Great White Crab, you wouldn't be so anxious about offending him!

Chile
05-11-2010, 04:08 PM
Someone offended the Mantis Shrimp? That's like flicking a booger at an angry snarling rabid bear on bad crack!

Shrimps
05-11-2010, 05:09 PM
YakCast wrote:

Shrimps wrote:

I never said I'd drop the game if any magic was introduced, I said I probably would if I saw wooden penis wielding, giant ball throwing old guys runnning around in a toga. (you wonder why people think magic is gay?)

Native Americans , or as most call them down south, indians, have a much different cobcept of magic than what most think.

As long as everyone is running around screaming Falcon Punch and throwing giant balls of doom out of nowhere then that's fine.

As for the mention of sorcery, it's mentioned once I believe and only in a single word. Sorcery back in the medieval days mostly consisted of throwing chemicals into the fire to scare villagers and looking creepy in a robe. Not so much of the stuff you see in games.

You are basically assuming that the developers don't know what they are doing and don't know how to make magic fit into their game. I have never ever played a MMO where the magic didn't fit the game. Before you call me on this, I want a very specific example. Also, you may want to run spell check next time. :)

I'm not assuming anything, there are no assumptions in my post. I simply stated an opinion. Followed by my reasoning.

I apologize that my spelling wasn't perfect, but the fact that you have no other comment to make, but to point out my spelling tells me you have no argument.

I do believe that the traditional magic seen in MMO's would not fit into the lore or gameplay, however as it has been suggested, the shamanistic rituals used by the tahoe region Native Americans would be an interesting route.

sicarius
05-11-2010, 05:49 PM
Shrimps wrote:

YakCast wrote:

Shrimps wrote:

I never said I'd drop the game if any magic was introduced, I said I probably would if I saw wooden penis wielding, giant ball throwing old guys runnning around in a toga. (you wonder why people think magic is gay?)

Native Americans , or as most call them down south, indians, have a much different cobcept of magic than what most think.

As long as everyone is running around screaming Falcon Punch and throwing giant balls of doom out of nowhere then that's fine.

As for the mention of sorcery, it's mentioned once I believe and only in a single word. Sorcery back in the medieval days mostly consisted of throwing chemicals into the fire to scare villagers and looking creepy in a robe. Not so much of the stuff you see in games.

You are basically assuming that the developers don't know what they are doing and don't know how to make magic fit into their game. I have never ever played a MMO where the magic didn't fit the game. Before you call me on this, I want a very specific example. Also, you may want to run spell check next time. :)

I'm not assuming anything, there are no assumptions in my post. I simply stated an opinion. Followed by my reasoning.

I apologize that my spelling wasn't perfect, but the fact that you have no other comment to make, but to point out my spelling tells me you have no argument.

I do believe that the traditional magic seen in MMO's would not fit into the lore or gameplay, however as it has been suggested, the shamanistic rituals used by the tahoe region Native Americans would be an interesting route.

He just won the argument.

YakCast
05-11-2010, 07:12 PM
sicarius wrote:

Shrimps wrote:

YakCast wrote:

Shrimps wrote:

I never said I'd drop the game if any magic was introduced, I said I probably would if I saw wooden penis wielding, giant ball throwing old guys runnning around in a toga. (you wonder why people think magic is gay?)

Native Americans , or as most call them down south, indians, have a much different cobcept of magic than what most think.

As long as everyone is running around screaming Falcon Punch and throwing giant balls of doom out of nowhere then that's fine.

As for the mention of sorcery, it's mentioned once I believe and only in a single word. Sorcery back in the medieval days mostly consisted of throwing chemicals into the fire to scare villagers and looking creepy in a robe. Not so much of the stuff you see in games.

You are basically assuming that the developers don't know what they are doing and don't know how to make magic fit into their game. I have never ever played a MMO where the magic didn't fit the game. Before you call me on this, I want a very specific example. Also, you may want to run spell check next time. :)

I'm not assuming anything, there are no assumptions in my post. I simply stated an opinion. Followed by my reasoning.

I apologize that my spelling wasn't perfect, but the fact that you have no other comment to make, but to point out my spelling tells me you have no argument.

I do believe that the traditional magic seen in MMO's would not fit into the lore or gameplay, however as it has been suggested, the shamanistic rituals used by the tahoe region Native Americans would be an interesting route.

He just won the argument.

Thank you that proves my point. Saying things with out logic or anything to back it up will always make you lose a good debate. Believe me I was far from being hostel. I was simply making my point! Until we see what their magic system it, there is no point in judging sure. Sure we can speculate but make sure we going down the lines of a plausible magic system. I love magic and technology, reminds me of the days of Final Fantasy!

Virtus
05-11-2010, 09:01 PM
cut the crap, back on topic...

i'm going to be running out of corners to put ppl in soon :S

Gunz
05-11-2010, 09:14 PM
Virtus wrote:

cut the crap, back on topic...

i'm going to be running out of cornoer to put ppl in soon :S
choose me and sicarius, prease mastah!

preaes.
prease.
:P

Greawulfe
05-11-2010, 11:22 PM
Cmon guys I read the intro. Technology is gone, and we were blown back into the stone age lol. Sword and sorcery, ancient gods, that sort of thing. Whatever magic the devs let in has to be in context with the basic intro. The lords of nature remind me of the Indians worshipping the sun, moon, mother earth, rain, fire etc. Realistically you cant make a burning sword but they used fire to make their sword harder and hold an edge better. They worshipped the sun and rain to make their harvests more plentiful. Magic shouldnt be a primary weapon, it should enhance everything.
Heals are another touchy area. Should a good priest with high faith be allowed to group heal? what about HOT's. I would rather see healing be an individual thing with one big heal thats slow and easily interrupted, one small instant heal, potions and bandages. A fight would go like this. With 165 hit points, right away hit a potion for a small HOT of 5 every 2 seconds for 5 pulses, total of 25 health, somewhere in the middle hit a bandage for a small heal of 20, hit a small instaheal of 20 to stay above half health, and when its over hit a big, slow heal for 100 for a total of 165. Make the cooldowns such that you get one of each every 3 minutes or so, and cant rely on them to win. Better gear and skills should make the biggest difference. Again the "magic" only enhances everything. A sword from the lava pit, armor from an elders anvil, potions from some cave dwelling lunatic, well you get the idea. Anyways thats my opinion, time for me to head back into my cave and burn some sage. :P

JetJon
05-12-2010, 06:19 AM
the magic i would expect will be much of the Norse/Celtic/druid kind. more shaman/ritualistic, fireballs and the such are not a favorite of the devs, look for subtle influences that provide a slight advantage.

YakCast
05-12-2010, 07:37 AM
Greawulfe wrote:

Cmon guys I read the intro. Technology is gone, and we were blown back into the stone age lol. Sword and sorcery, ancient gods, that sort of thing. Whatever magic the devs let in has to be in context with the basic intro. The lords of nature remind me of the Indians worshipping the sun, moon, mother earth, rain, fire etc. Realistically you cant make a burning sword but they used fire to make their sword harder and hold an edge better. They worshipped the sun and rain to make their harvests more plentiful. Magic shouldnt be a primary weapon, it should enhance everything.
Heals are another touchy area. Should a good priest with high faith be allowed to group heal? what about HOT's. I would rather see healing be an individual thing with one big heal thats slow and easily interrupted, one small instant heal, potions and bandages. A fight would go like this. With 165 hit points, right away hit a potion for a small HOT of 5 every 2 seconds for 5 pulses, total of 25 health, somewhere in the middle hit a bandage for a small heal of 20, hit a small instaheal of 20 to stay above half health, and when its over hit a big, slow heal for 100 for a total of 165. Make the cooldowns such that you get one of each every 3 minutes or so, and cant rely on them to win. Better gear and skills should make the biggest difference. Again the "magic" only enhances everything. A sword from the lava pit, armor from an elders anvil, potions from some cave dwelling lunatic, well you get the idea. Anyways thats my opinion, time for me to head back into my cave and burn some sage. :P

I love it! That's what I am talking about would be sweet! Great example of what could be in this game.

sicarius
05-12-2010, 07:40 AM
JetJon wrote:

the magic i would expect will be much of the Norse/Celtic/druid kind. more shaman/ritualistic, fireballs and the such are not a favorite of the devs, look for subtle influences that provide a slight advantage.

exactly, magic in the WOW or Warhammer or even DFO way would really put a damper on the feel of the game. Ritualistic/shamanistic magic would add alot of possibilities and tying it into religion would be awsome.

Greawulfe
05-12-2010, 11:29 AM
JetJon wrote:

the magic i would expect will be much of the Norse/Celtic/druid kind. more shaman/ritualistic, fireballs and the such are not a favorite of the devs, look for subtle influences that provide a slight advantage.

I would hope that several different schools would surface in the aftermath of total destruction. Greek mythology, Nordic/Celt influence, Mayan/Inca rituals, etc. The big question is how to introduce them and in what alignment. This would probable never fly ingame but I would like to see individual spells, something no one else can do, a discoverable, single use scroll that cannot be taught or traded to another player, have hundreds of different scrolls for each school so that no two casters are alike. It wouldnt affect gameplay that much because magic would be supportive only but would really open the game up in terms of variety. It would also make for a more dynamic, player driven economy and encourage grouping/tribes.

Virtus
05-12-2010, 11:31 AM
@Greawulfe:

Jooky has stated somewhere deep in hte threads that religions/beliefs will be introduced when new regions. Right now its Nevada or it will be native american like beliefs. If china became a region then chinese beliefs would be visible.

Hurk
05-12-2010, 01:50 PM
My god I listen to people say 'technology is gone' and suddenly magic appears as though that were a sound argument.

WHERE DOES MAGIC FIT INTO A FUTURISTIC GAME? ALL 'MAGIC' CONCEPTS SUCH AS AREA EFFECT, DOTS, DIRECT DAMAGE CAN ALL BE HANDLED WITH CONCEPTUALLY FITTING TECHNOLOGY SUCH AS GRENADES, POISON, ETC.

Why do players come to a game which has a different concept and want to make it just like the same pile of crap they are escaping in the first place? Yes, I have played many magic classes and have enjoyed them, but lets give a game with a different concept than your standard D&D/WoW MMO a fighting chance to show that players can have fun in some other genre.

I could live with Rituals and chants that give slight boosts before battle or something, but more than that will kill for me what I like about the game.

Chile
05-12-2010, 01:51 PM
Hurk wrote:

My god I listen to people say 'technology is gone' and suddenly magic appears as though that were a sound argument.

WHERE DOES MAGIC FIT INTO A FUTURISTIC GAME? ALL 'MAGIC' CONCEPTS SUCH AS AREA EFFECT, DOTS, DIRECT DAMAGE CAN ALL BE HANDLED WITH CONCEPTUALLY FITTING TECHNOLOGY SUCH AS GRENADES, POISON, ETC.

Why do players come to a game which has a different concept and want to make it just like the same pile of crap they are escaping in the first place? Yes, I have played many magic classes and have enjoyed them, but lets give a game with a different concept than your standard D&D/WoW MMO a fighting chance to show that players can have fun in some other genre.

I could live with Rituals and chants that give slight boosts before battle or something, but more than that will kill for me what I like about the game.

++1

Veldern
05-12-2010, 01:52 PM
They didn't bring it. The devs said in the beginning (Or at least for the last few months...) it was going to be in.

Jadzia
05-12-2010, 02:03 PM
Hurk wrote:

My god I listen to people say 'technology is gone' and suddenly magic appears as though that were a sound argument.

WHERE DOES MAGIC FIT INTO A FUTURISTIC GAME? ALL 'MAGIC' CONCEPTS SUCH AS AREA EFFECT, DOTS, DIRECT DAMAGE CAN ALL BE HANDLED WITH CONCEPTUALLY FITTING TECHNOLOGY SUCH AS GRENADES, POISON, ETC.

Why do players come to a game which has a different concept and want to make it just like the same pile of crap they are escaping in the first place? Yes, I have played many magic classes and have enjoyed them, but lets give a game with a different concept than your standard D&D/WoW MMO a fighting chance to show that players can have fun in some other genre.

I could live with Rituals and chants that give slight boosts before battle or something, but more than that will kill for me what I like about the game.
I have no idea why someone comes to post about a game when he is not willing to read even the homepage.


Modern technology has consumed itself. War has ravaged the planet, opening a rift to another reality. The survivors of the grisly destruction rise from the ashes of ruin to encounter a world that has changed. A world that once existed only in the realm of mythology, legend and imagination has become concrete and very real. You have forgotten the past and are welcomed by a new primitive future.

With the disruption of the planet, ancient gods awake to once again exert their powers over the earth. The lords of nature have revived the wastelands, eradicating and subverting the remnants of modern technology. Creatures of mutation and mythology now populate the land. The ways of swords and sorcery have replaced the path of science and progress.

See ? This is the homepage of Xsyon, you are the one who comes here with a different concept.

A personal note: I hate magic, and never played a magic character in any game.

Alfred
05-12-2010, 02:16 PM
Hurk's words are loyal to his heart! Even though there hardly will be a mainstream of modern weapons, magic (as we are used to know it) isn't welcome in this game.

There might be diffrent degrees on what's acceptable, of course, but as stated a million times before, if we see a single fire-ball, half the community is gone.

Jadzia
05-12-2010, 02:22 PM
Alfred wrote:

Hurk's words are loyal to his heart! Even though there hardly will be a mainstream of modern weapons, magic (as we are used to know it) isn't welcome in this game.

There might be diffrent degrees on what's acceptable, of course, but as stated a million times before, if we see a single fire-ball, half the community is gone.
Deep inside I really hope that the devs will never introduce magic in any form in the game...but if they will, I won't complain, since it was planned from the beginning. But this question "WHERE DOES MAGIC FIT INTO A FUTURISTIC GAME?" is really pointless, when it is explained on the homepage, lol. And bashing people who did nothing but read the planned features...grr.

Shrimps
05-12-2010, 03:07 PM
I don't know how anyone else see's it but to me the front page says nothing about any type of "magic" being in game.

All I get from the description is that humanity has reverted it's beliefs and understanding to an equal point of medieval times, where people "believed" there was magic and monsters.

Of course there wasn't a bunch of old guys throwing magic around back then, and merlin was nothing more than an inventor and an early chemist who knew what chemicals would make smoke and which would make fire.

Any person with a high school education in chemistry would seem like a god to peple back then.

As for the "Old gods", civilizations used to worship the sun, the trees, the birds, cats, dogs, crocodiles, basically anything and everything. Native Americans used to worship their ancestors also I believe.

So the statement of the old gods re appearing could mean nothing more than people started to worship grasshoppers.

Virtus
05-12-2010, 04:04 PM
Shrimps wrote:


So the statement of the old gods re appearing could mean nothing more than people started to worship grasshoppers.

or maybe it could mean so much more..... :blink:

but yeah, there will be a form of magic at some point

necoo
05-12-2010, 04:12 PM
Shrimps wrote:

I don't know how anyone else see's it but to me the front page says nothing about any type of "magic" being in game.

All I get from the description is that humanity has reverted it's beliefs and understanding to an equal point of medieval times, where people "believed" there was magic and monsters.

Of course there wasn't a bunch of old guys throwing magic around back then, and merlin was nothing more than an inventor and an early chemist who knew what chemicals would make smoke and which would make fire.

Any person with a high school education in chemistry would seem like a god to peple back then.

As for the "Old gods", civilizations used to worship the sun, the trees, the birds, cats, dogs, crocodiles, basically anything and everything. Native Americans used to worship their ancestors also I believe.

So the statement of the old gods re appearing could mean nothing more than people started to worship grasshoppers.

The ways of swords and sorcery have replaced the path of science and progress.


... what the hell is sorcery if not magic... how the hell can you not see that magic will exist in this game eventually

JCatano
05-12-2010, 04:53 PM
Virtus wrote:
but yeah, there will be a form of magic at some point

Well, just about every other MMO has it... No reason to be different, eh?

I really hope it's very low-key. While the site does say there is sorcery, I don't think many people want to play a post-apo MMO with spells flying all around.

It will be quite a turn-off for me if there is going to be "normal" magic like other games. I don't understand why 99% of the MMO developers out there are so infatuated with magic.

Virtus
05-12-2010, 05:57 PM
as stated above i think it will be subtle magic, not giant epeen fire rain

Hurk
05-12-2010, 07:59 PM
Jadzia wrote:

The ways of swords and sorcery have replaced the path of science and progress[/color].
See ? This is the homepage of Xsyon, you are the one who comes here with a different concept.

Again, its up for interpretation. 'Sorcery' of old was the result of alchemy and science which dumbfounded the layman. Hopefully if they feel the need to put this type of stuff in the game they can avoid the typical 'magic' of other MMOs.

Anyhow, I am done discussing this, just wanted to put my 2 cents in and hopefully avoid this game becoming what most of us are trying to escape.

Chile
05-12-2010, 10:02 PM
Shhhhhhhhhhuriken! http://www.xsyon.com/images/fbfiles/images/magic.jpg

JetJon
05-13-2010, 04:41 AM
for those who played the game which shall not be named, i expect this to look and feel much the same. to include the effects of magic.

so yes, even after it is implemented, there will probbably be some debate as to its actual effect, no one will see a fireball there will be no suber buff spells. think siplifying hard tasks, getting better odds of good gear, better odds of a good strike. but think like 10-20% boost, nothing more.

Alfred
05-13-2010, 06:23 AM
JetJon wrote:

for those who played the game which shall not be named, i expect this to look and feel much the same. to include the effects of magic.

http://www.guildbot.com/gfx/wow01/wowkid.jpg

hay thar, i r teh magic knite-wizord JETJON! i r holdin NOT NAMED GAYM!!!!

Veldern
05-13-2010, 11:13 AM
Alfred wrote:

hay thar, i r teh magic knite-wizord JETJON! i r holdin NOT NAMED GAYM!!!! So... run out of arguments then?

Alfred
05-13-2010, 11:39 AM
Veldern wrote:

Alfred wrote:

hay thar, i r teh magic knite-wizord JETJON! i r holdin NOT NAMED GAYM!!!! So... run out of arguments then?
It's just that they have been stated far too many times to be repeated. He obviously didn't ready any, so I'll be playing by his rules.

Diarmue
05-19-2010, 01:03 PM
Hurk wrote:


Again, its up for interpretation. 'Sorcery' of old was the result of alchemy and science which dumbfounded the layman.

How is it up for interpretation when applied to Xyson, not the real world? This is Jordi's game. His vision. The game he has wanted to create for a long time. These are his visions. Why compare him to devs of other companies. A friend and myself sat down years ago, EQ/DAOC days and laid out plans for a game if we ever had the time and money. Guess what, the game had magic. Where we copying all those other devs years ago? No, we came up with our system that happened to include magic because we liked it.

As Jadzia has kindly pointed out the home page contains all this information. This is not a sci-fi post-apoc world. This is an alternate reality where the apocalypse(the four horsemen included) is currently under way and gods have returned, magic along with them. If this isn't the game you want, then look elsewhere don't expect it to change.

tldr version - This is Jordi's game, his vision, and the homepage clearly states science has been replaced with "magic" in an alternate reality.

Chile
05-19-2010, 02:05 PM
Diarmue wrote:

Hurk wrote:


Again, its up for interpretation. 'Sorcery' of old was the result of alchemy and science which dumbfounded the layman.

How is it up for interpretation when applied to Xyson, not the real world? This is Jordi's game. His vision. The game he has wanted to create for a long time. These are his visions. Why compare him to devs of other companies. A friend and myself sat down years ago, EQ/DAOC days and laid out plans for a game if we ever had the time and money. Guess what, the game had magic. Where we copying all those other devs years ago? No, we came up with our system that happened to include magic because we liked it.

As Jadzia has kindly pointed out the home page contains all this information. This is not a sci-fi post-apoc world. This is an alternate reality where the apocalypse(the four horsemen included) is currently under way and gods have returned, magic along with them. If this isn't the game you want, then look elsewhere don't expect it to change.

tldr version - This is Jordi's game, his vision, and the homepage clearly states science has been replaced with "magic" in an alternate reality.

You are right. Sorcery replaces science. This is Jordi's game and he can do what he wants to. This said one needs to look at the wording, the about page, the features page and the FAQ. If this was going to have as much sorcery (magic) as lets say WOW, GW or Aion it would be sprawled with terms all throughout the website let alone screen shots showing it. Why? Because it would have let those magic mage lovers know this is a game for them and would be advertised as such.

Yes, there will be sorcery or some form of it. It will not most likely turn into a magic mage battle fest like the games I mentioned above. It will be in game but be subtle and flow with the world and surroundings. You will see more knives, blades, axes, polearms, spears, clubs, bows, x-bows and types of guns through history than you will see anything resembling fireballs and word powers. I could be wrong but going off what is shown now and written, it is closer to what I have said than what you or other have said.

Jordi of course can do what he wants to and change or add what he wants to. I don't presume to know what his plans are but to limited the usage of the word magic to sorcery and then not see the word ever again throughout the site, makes me think he is being careful not to give away all ideas or is being careful not to make it sound to magic-ee. You just have to read the context within the content to see what the majority of this game will have, and it's not in one sentence within on paragraph. We will have to wait and see.

Modru Kinslayer
05-19-2010, 05:14 PM
I'd like magic, but simple magic. Two specific spells come to mind: Conjure Beer, Conjure Bacon. Add a sword, bow, arrows, and a spiffy loincloth, and I'm good.

IakXastur
05-19-2010, 08:39 PM
For me, if I want magic, and I'm referencing a book with a lot of magic, I want to be like the one character in Harry Dresden Books, in one particular fight. I want to be like Injun Joe (yes, that is the name of the character) when he fights the skin walker in Proven Guilty. Just the ability to morph shapes, into a large variety. heck, I wouldn't care if it didn't give any extra abilities, I would like it as fluff. Only thing I would say, if the creatures are non-fighting, they would act as a type of camouflage, hiding your characters name, and untargeting someone that is targeting you. That's the primary magic I want.

Others that I would like, and now I'm referencing several different things for a point of reference. Faerie Fire, Spirit of the Wolf (since, to the best of my knowledge, we can only run at this point), and, well actually, that's all I can think of right now at least for named spells. I more want utility spells instead of outright DD, and DOT spells. Maybe later on in the game, once more items have become unlocked, I would like to see a couple NPC mind control abilities, even if it makes an aggressive NPC become a lit more passive, can't remember the name of the EQ spell that did that....

stanleyxd
05-20-2010, 06:07 PM
loladin

GQO

Hurk
05-21-2010, 08:32 AM
Diarmue wrote:

Hurk wrote:


Again, its up for interpretation. 'Sorcery' of old was the result of alchemy and science which dumbfounded the layman.

How is it up for interpretation when applied to Xyson, not the real world? This is Jordi's game. His vision. The game he has wanted to create for a long time. These are his visions. Why compare him to devs of other companies. A friend and myself sat down years ago, EQ/DAOC days and laid out plans for a game if we ever had the time and money. Guess what, the game had magic. Where we copying all those other devs years ago? No, we came up with our system that happened to include magic because we liked it.

As Jadzia has kindly pointed out the home page contains all this information. This is not a sci-fi post-apoc world. This is an alternate reality where the apocalypse(the four horsemen included) is currently under way and gods have returned, magic along with them. If this isn't the game you want, then look elsewhere don't expect it to change.

tldr version - This is Jordi's game, his vision, and the homepage clearly states science has been replaced with "magic" in an alternate reality.

Well done! You really should work for a Political Party the way you twist my argument as being opposed to the Devs at the same time licking their arses and then reinterpreting everything so that it comes in line with your personal vision while digressing that it is the 'founder's' vision.

Well done indeed.

Oh, anyone believing a word of Diarmue's garbage can go back and re-read my posts then decide for yourself.