Can you do a mega sale on Steam and get us some players?

[KeithStone]

Put the game on sale at $4.95 (I know, I know, but we need some players)

It's a catch 22 for the War server atm. In order for players to stay on the War server there needs to already be players on the War server. The only way to make this happen would be to get an influx of new players all at once to show some activity.

As it is right now, if any new player logs in and sees no activity they are most likely to logout.

If you can plan this sale and let us have a weeks notice we can get organized and be prepared for some mass tribe recruiting to help keep these people playing longer.

I also think with Xsyon being such a niche game, we would need periodic sales like this to help drive more players to the game.

You could use this as a test that would work like this:

1. Put the game on sale for 14 days, then after the 14 days are up watch the in game activity.
2. You're going to notice a big influx of activity, so the idea here is to see how long this lasts.
3. Once the sale ends, you're going to have some referral sales from the influx of new players referring their friends at the normal $30 fee to purchase the game.
3. At some point, the game will start to die down again as players start to leave.

Once you have this data, you can plan how long in between your sales should be. As an example: If you determine that the population in game starts to die down after 45 days, put the game on sale for a few days every 30 days. Over time as the population grows, the frequency of sales would become less and less. Each time you do a sale you should see that it takes a little longer each time for the population to start decreasing.

If you did it like this, we would always have a steady flow of incoming players to keep the game active.

[MrDDT]

I still do not think the issue is about price. Right now you can put it on sale and have people play the game but they won't stay after a few days or a week. What needs to happen is changes to the game to give people direction on play. The tutorial was a bust it really doesnt help people much because it's all written and it's like 120 pages long.

People need to log in and feel like they have a direction, whether they are forced in that direction or encouraged to do it through rewards/quests.
Forced would be like a tutorial where you have to do xyz before you can progress. Encouraged would be telling them about a reward for doing xyz but it's their choice, or a pop up quest saying you should do xyz.
Next would be direction on the game overall. What are people overall goals? Yes I know it's a sandbox "You can do anything" but dropping someone in a game and saying "You can do whatever you want" without a reason or drive to do something means they are likely going to log out unless they are one of the few self starters.
Getting food to live was a good start for a survival game. But past that there is nothing to encourage people to do something and surely not to be well skilled at it. Why have walls in your city? It looks cool? That's not enough for most people. Why build rooms? Why get your combat skills up when you can get all the resources you need off non mobs (food is the only true need). Why get better armor? Why have better weapons? Why have better tools?
These are things that drive people to keep playing, or stay logged in.
Yes of course you will have people that do these things on their own, but that is not common and with few people playing others likely will not stick around to drive themselves.

Price is currently not the issue. To me setting it to 5$ like that is only going to get the people currently playing to buy like 20 accounts each for the extra tribal area. Sure it's money for Xsyon but not extra players.

[KeithStone]

I still do not think the issue is about price. Right now you can put it on sale and have people play the game but they won't stay after a few days or a week. What needs to happen is changes to the game to give people direction on play. The tutorial was a bust it really doesnt help people much because it's all written and it's like 120 pages long.

People need to log in and feel like they have a direction, whether they are forced in that direction or encouraged to do it through rewards/quests.
Forced would be like a tutorial where you have to do xyz before you can progress. Encouraged would be telling them about a reward for doing xyz but it's their choice, or a pop up quest saying you should do xyz.
Next would be direction on the game overall. What are people overall goals? Yes I know it's a sandbox "You can do anything" but dropping someone in a game and saying "You can do whatever you want" without a reason or drive to do something means they are likely going to log out unless they are one of the few self starters.
Getting food to live was a good start for a survival game. But past that there is nothing to encourage people to do something and surely not to be well skilled at it. Why have walls in your city? It looks cool? That's not enough for most people. Why build rooms? Why get your combat skills up when you can get all the resources you need off non mobs (food is the only true need). Why get better armor? Why have better weapons? Why have better tools?
These are things that drive people to keep playing, or stay logged in.
Yes of course you will have people that do these things on their own, but that is not common and with few people playing others likely will not stick around to drive themselves.

Price is currently not the issue. To me setting it to 5$ like that is only going to get the people currently playing to buy like 20 accounts each for the extra tribal area. Sure it's money for Xsyon but not extra players.

Regardless of why you think players don't stay, we need players joining the game, playing and giving their feedback.

They are not going to come just because a few features are added or changed. You might get a few older players come back as changes are made and new features are added.

What it comes down to is this: We need a steady flow of players coming into the game or the few that do purchase right now just won't stay due to the extremely low population.

Also, more money = more money to hire devs, which gets more updates out sooner! I don't care how he get's it, if putting the game on sale means we can all buy 10 accounts to up our totem count who cares! It gives us a way to help fund the game!

[fuquashawn]

I don't play the PVP side so all I offer is opinion. However I feel this subject will assist both non-pvp as well as pvp servers. I don't believe lowering the cost will achieve much. This game has been out a good long while, only so many potential players left to grab. I have to agree with MrDTT on this one. At this point in the games life content will be the only real numbers boost. You say a "just few older players" KeithStone but that potential is numbered in the thousands. I do agree with your statement "more money = better gameplay" but with Xsyon making that leap of faith to Buy To Play the best solution for him would be anyone enjoying the game long term, simply assist him. On your accounts page is an option to extend totom time, on the homepage of this website is a donations button, If you are looking for another account simply buy it at full price. This is what will fund our game at the current status. It does not have to be half your paycheck, donate a dollar, two, three. If everyone helps small it would be a large difference. I'm not shooting blanks. I just bought an account the other night at full price, I have four I already don't need. I donated 20 bucks a few days ago, and I loaded my totem with time and honestly I don't even need it, i play daily. You enjoy the game? You sticking around awhile? Like to see this thing get off the ground? Donate. It's not about what you can get, it's about making this thing happen.

For anyone who read this post thinking about buying this game, It's a blast. The non-pvp server is growing steadily. There are groups on all hours just waiting to add to their ranks. Give it a try you won't regret it.

[xyberviri]

Well it is on sale for 25% off right now till the 12th.



Anyone here ever read "The Mythical Man Month" by Fred Brooks? It's a book on software engineering and project management, whose central theme is that "adding manpower to a late software project makes it later".


There are 3 key take away points which are:


It takes time for a new developer added to a project to become productive, this is known as Ramp up time. This requires diverting resources already working on the project, temporarily diminishing their productivity while the new workers are not yet contributing meaningfully.
Communication overhead increases as the number of people increase, everyone working on the same project needs to stay in sync with each other and that means spending time tring to figure out what everyone is working on.
Adding more people to a highly divisible task will decrease the over all duration of a task, ie picking corn from a field, but only up to the a point. ie Until the workers start getting in each others way. But some tasks can't be divided, you cant assign 9 women to birth a baby in 1 month.



Simply put hiring another developer wont speed up development today, maybe 16-24 months from today, but not today, not next week. That's not even counting the amount of work they are going to create just by touching stuff.


The problem is unless you have self motivated people, you can't have a sandbox with out some basic carrots(goals).


Today the carrot is: Hi welcome to Xsyon, a world where you can do anything, you just have to figure out what you want to do.


At a bare minimum:
In a traditional RPG there would be a NPC Guide on founders island that would do some typical "Hi there, do you know your name?" introduction. the NPC would explain that they were given a second chance so their memory of their former life was lost. Then the guide would assist the player in doing some basic survival techniques such as fishing foraging, cooking, gathering and some crafting. Then they would be sent on their way.


We dont have any of that and a lot of the types of players that don't need it are far and few. No one wants to read the tutorial because the text box is too small and its over 100 pages of clicking.


In a perfect world the player tribes would also have a "guide" working the welcome station so that the moment a new person showed up they would do the same thing. (instead of inviting them to a tribe and saying "great to have you, do what ever").

[Xsyon]

I've been following Steam guidelines and limits regarding sales. This week, I'm participating in Steam's Lunar New Year sale.

Regarding player retention: Regardless of what I implement, it's going to be tough. Most people just aren't going to play a game more than 10 hours (or less) these days, with so many choices and so many games regularly going on sale. I'm sure you've all seen players with hundreds even over a thousand games in their Steam library.

Current stats are decent with about 1/2 players playing more than 10 hours, 1/3 playing more than 20, 1/4 playing more than 40 and 1/10 becoming hard core players with a hundred to a few thousand hours in game.

Retention has improved over time but could and will be better as the game improves and more features are added. Of course I'll continue to do my best. I do keep things into perspective though. If 1/4 of players become long term players I'd be impressed.

Attracting more new players is key, I agree!

Through Steam I have a limited number of 'visibility rounds' I can use. These will be used with major upcoming updates and are the best next step to draw new traffic. Participating in Steam site wide sales is a mixed bag and they've been changing their system to better promote a variety of games during their site wide sales. The actual discount prices so far have been interesting as the price matters much less than the simple additional visibility during a sale.

[xyberviri]

The common problem everyone i know that has seen me play xsyon is they say "there's nothing to do".

Compared to mine craft at first you could just basically build some stuff and harvest resources. Much like Xsyon.

However unlike Xsyon, When the night comes in the zombies are out and about. They roam the land and attack the player.

This is where i think we miss out on opportunity to at least give players reason to band together.

We dont need zombies, Revenants are our zombies they should roam more than the high danger areas, we need something like that that seeks out the player and gives them reasons to build things like walls and doors.

We should have to perform offerings to ward off evil spirits(or summon in case of evil players).

If we had ceremonies that provided buffs and required weeks of work between multiple players that wanted the benefit it would give the players reason to do things. (benefits that include things like not dying, getting an illness or a curse on our tribes.)

[KeithStone]

However unlike Xsyon, When the night comes in the zombies are out and about. They roam the land and attack the player.

We dont need zombies, Revenants are our zombies they should roam more than the high danger areas, we need something like that that seeks out the player and gives them reasons to build things like walls and doors.

Let Revenants break grass/wood doors! :p

This would be a great start!

[KeithStone]

I don't play the PVP side so all I offer is opinion. However I feel this subject will assist both non-pvp as well as pvp servers. I don't believe lowering the cost will achieve much. This game has been out a good long while, only so many potential players left to grab. I have to agree with MrDTT on this one. At this point in the games life content will be the only real numbers boost. You say a "just few older players" KeithStone but that potential is numbered in the thousands. I do agree with your statement "more money = better gameplay" but with Xsyon making that leap of faith to Buy To Play the best solution for him would be anyone enjoying the game long term, simply assist him. On your accounts page is an option to extend totom time, on the homepage of this website is a donations button, If you are looking for another account simply buy it at full price. This is what will fund our game at the current status. It does not have to be half your paycheck, donate a dollar, two, three. If everyone helps small it would be a large difference. I'm not shooting blanks. I just bought an account the other night at full price, I have four I already don't need. I donated 20 bucks a few days ago, and I loaded my totem with time and honestly I don't even need it, i play daily. You enjoy the game? You sticking around awhile? Like to see this thing get off the ground? Donate. It's not about what you can get, it's about making this thing happen.

For anyone who read this post thinking about buying this game, It's a blast. The non-pvp server is growing steadily. There are groups on all hours just waiting to add to their ranks. Give it a try you won't regret it.

Xsyon has only reached thousands of players, the steam community is in the millions.

I understand it's a niche game, but I don't believe for a minute that this game has already been viewed by the majority.

My point wasn't really about getting more money for devs, my point was about getting new players to see/purchase the game and become long term players.

For any game to keep a healthy population you need a steady flow of players coming in. Now that the game is b2p, with a few sales we should be able to get new players to stick around.

[MrDDT]

KeithStone, it's about keeping people.

If you invite people to play and few people are playing, they will not stay long. If you invite people to play and they are not drawn in, they will not stay long.

If both of those needs are not met you will not keep people. So yes you can get a good amount of people by dropping price AKA sale and advertising the game. But without something to draw them into the game they will not stay long.
The key should be fix should start with keeping people drawn into the game so when you do a sale it doesn't go to waste. I believe until that happens you should not waste the sale prices and cut your profits of the people that are able to try it at full price. Cutting the price to the level you are talking about you would need to add 6 people for every 1 that would have normally bought it at full price. On top of that you are unlikely to see those people come back to the game once they checked it out, only a small % do this. So you are also leaving a bad taste for people that might be a long term player if the game were improved the FIRST time they tried it.

I'm down with doing sales (really I would rather just do events that get people to see the game as an option, changing the price IMO has little to no effect, but doing a sale is an event which gets people to look at the game). But until the game is able to keep people playing more than 10 hours, you are likely not going to see much benefit from that sale price.

[xyberviri]

Another thing is these threads, Players that dont see activity in both the steam and xsyon forums are going to think no one is playing.

I know people are reading these and "*nod nod* eh maybe ill post later"

[rosedrake]

my two cents: im a fan of this genre and i just bought xsyon a few days ago, and i love it. i wouldve loved to join much earlier, but i havent heard a peep of the game - i found it after googling for two days. it was mentioned in a thread in wurm forums.

so i think what xsyon really needs is more exposure. the current price is more than worth this game.

[Hero]

Needs a build up, its not gettin new players its keeping them, i see many new players start and either dissapear into the trees never to log on again or join a tribe an few days/weeks later *smoke* gone.

Some kind of relaunch with a build up an a few extra features (the pet one for example) to build up a pop explosion upon re release, a pvp server wipe at same time would be nice/helpful to (all map all characters).

[xyberviri]

Needs a build up......Some kind of relaunch with a build up an a few extra features (the pet one for example) to build up a pop explosion upon re release, a pvp server wipe at same time would be nice/helpful to (all map all characters).


The only way were going to get a build up is if the game has an expansion of features and a partial name change.

Like how wow and eve add features on that bring a new sub title.

[Ooloo]

I'll throw my 2 cents in and make it a nickel....

First off Xsyon has replied...he has limited ways he cam atm work with Steam. So...NO Mega sale here...

Second, I agree with DDT's point if a mega sale were put up that most of the current players would buy the game multiple times just to be able to have a large Tribe area as a solo player.

and Third... I tried at least 7 different searches within Steam using key words that the game was about...Not once did Xsyon come up in the search...This is where he needs to be looking at working with steam. If only 1% of people even see it as a game on steam then that's all he will get is 1%

[xyberviri]

and Third... I tried at least 7 different searches within Steam using key words that the game was about...Not once did Xsyon come up in the search...This is where he needs to be looking at working with steam. If only 1% of people even see it as a game on steam then that's all he will get is 1%

Because people dont tag Xsyon with "Open world" or "Sandbox" or "PvP" or "MMORPG"

Popular user-defined tags for this product:
"Early Access" "Massively Multiplayer" "RPG" "Indie"

[dyneol]

I tried pretty hard to get warm with this game a few years back. What made me not stay for too long was a pretty bad combat system. This might have changed and I probably should check it out again after so many years.

However, the reason why I logged in is to point out that having lines like this one on the site doesn't help your cause:
Notice: Undefined index: JPG Support in /home/notorio1/public_html/gallery/libraries/general.init.php on line 100
I'm checking the page every now and then to see whats new and this error has been there for a real long time. Honestly, I first thought this project is dead since the site doesn't even seem to be maintained anymore.

Just my 3 cents.

[Hero]

Price is currently not the issue. To me setting it to 5$ like that is only going to get the people currently playing to buy like 20 accounts each for the extra tribal area. Sure it's money for Xsyon but not extra players.

True that ^^
Also the huge tribes set up with many people and buckets of land and stocked resources really stifles new traders, tribes and people starting out crafting for any trade purpose and they just end up getting told to get tonnes of grass or woodcutting and logging until they burn out and leave.

FOr more players most game inc Entropia and LoL used google adwords, you get $75 free to start an see if it works out, it has to be worth a try right ?

[Hodo]

Here is my take, from an old player who recently came back to try it out again with a few friends.

PvP is non-existent on the PVP server. And even then the fighting is often rough and clunky compared to other PVP sandbox games.

The graphics are pretty bad, which will drive away other players, but most will overlook this.

The last thing is the grind. While not as bad as Wurm Online but it is worse than most others. The lack of options in character weapon and armor choices is also kind of a boon.

There are other things that hurt, like the fact that the development has been pretty stagnant looking. The last update was what 3 or 4 months ago on the forums.

There are also features that have been promised since day one, and they still are not in game or even close. Spears, archery, or anything ranged for that matter.

[MrDDT]

I don't think the grind is an issue IF the rest of the game were working.

Combat?
Healing?
Monsters?
Contested things?
Ranged combat?
Buildings for a reason?
Fixing issues of lag / desync etc etc.

The problem comes with lacking in many ways. The grind is not a major issue as most sandbox games are like this grind (only not allowing every skill being maxxed out)

I agree fully that the game is stale and nothing new being put in. The last major change was to building which pretty much fixed an issue and didn't really add anything new. Yes we have a few extra building parts but still lacking reasons to play. When are there going to be something to defend vs? or a reason to fight? give us a good reason to train up the skills.

When these game was released you had 1000s of players fighting and play even with the lag and roll backs. They left not because of just the poor coding of release but also there was no sieges, there were no contested areas, combat is lacking with skills, no healing etc etc. I can go on and on.
He has moved the game to a building game with a grind. If he is making it this way, he should make actions a lot faster and remove the grind.

[znaiika]

Get rid of attribute and skill decay or offer additional attribute and skill locks for a small monthly fee. This will help keep players playing and not get frustrate by the decay system.

[Ooloo]

O.O

Znaiika....I remember old posts from you on this and yes most would agree this would be nice but there was a reason for it being the way it is. if he did this then it would be Hello Kitty construction world where no one would make a tribe together. They could all solo and be tops at everything...that is not what the game is about...its about sharing/trading....groups of people...community.

And if I member correct ...you were really the only one that continues to try to get this changed.

Leave it how it is so there is need to associate with others...a need for a market...a need for wanting to be needed.

Decay happens in RL so it is here too.

Mookie

[znaiika]

Before decay system people traded a lot more then now, and not all people had patience to grind all skills to max. So what dcay system proved? just scared people away, is all.

[MrDDT]

Before decay system people traded a lot more then now, and not all people had patience to grind all skills to max. So what dcay system proved? just scared people away, is all.

Using this logic, before he fixed the server roll backs and server crashing there were 1000s of people playing. After they were fixed you have less than 100. Clearly bring back server roll backs and server crashes.

[znaiika]

People didn't quit because of crashes or rollbacks, people quit because of different reasons, one of few reasons is decay system, just saying.

[Hodo]

People didn't quit because of crashes or rollbacks, people quit because of different reasons, one of few reasons is decay system, just saying.

I left initially because of boredom. Every day there were less and less people, and when my guild quit, I stayed on for a few weeks then left myself.

[MrDDT]

People didn't quit because of crashes or rollbacks, people quit because of different reasons, one of few reasons is decay system, just saying.

You didn't even play at the time when there were crashes and rollbacks how can you say people didn't quit because of it?

Funny is I didn't say they quit because of it, so why would you think that? Next I was trying to use your crazy logic to say they quit because they REMOVED the crashing and rollbacks and people must have wanted them because after they were fixed people were quitting.

I'm sure there are people that quit because of whatever xyz reason anyone can give. But most people left because of major issues with the game of those major issues crashing and rollbacks were why many people left at the start, then after that I would say most people left because Xsyon did not update the game as he said he was.

We are 7 years into the game and we still do not have ranged combat as he said we would have and were "ready".

[Hodo]

I am just going out on a limb here and going to say the sale didnt go so well. While there are more people playing, they are not staying. So it isnt helping the game much.