03/08/2016 - Feedback Request Cash

[Xsyon]

The Test Server currently is partially updated with a future change to consolidate cash currency (dollar bills) and attach them to your player instead of having cash as an item stored in packs.
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Current Test: (Edited: 03-14-2016)

- Cash is added to the player owning the container holding the cash. Your cash total can be checked on your Pack Panel.

- Cash stacks are NOT currently removed and remain in your containers. This was done so players can better judge what cash total they expect to have.

- Cash stacks should display the current 'owner'. If there is no technical owner the cash stack should display 'Property of Nobody'. If the technical owner is a deleted character, the cash stack should display 'Property of Not Found'. The current owner is NOT being used to assign cash to players but I turned this on to make better sense of the previous test that did assign cash to the technical owner.

My questions to players:

- Is your current cash total what it should be? (based on cash in containers that you own)

- Does this system make better sense or should cash be assigned to the technical owner (as in the first test)?

- Would you like to see your cash total displayed somewhere else? (It will also show in the Trade Panel / Trade Totem Panel when I'm done with this).

Thanks!

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Previous Test: (Not currently on the Test Server)

- All current cash items have been removed from packs and bins.
- Cash amounts have been assigned to the player marked as the 'owner' for each stack of bills.
- Stacks of cash without an 'owner' have been assigned to the 'owner' of the container holding the stack.
- Your cash total now shows up in the title bar of your Packs Panel.

[Ooloo]

Ok...so...

The apocalypse is in essence over and we are starting over. like what happened in the past is still so today...nails are still as good as cash. We scavenge the scrap piles and find all kinds off goodies but they have to be stored for future use.

Now...like I've stated a few times in the past...after an apocalypse there will be many types of people trying to rebuild...some...don't like to work and sweat but will kill and steal to get what they want.

If I kill someone in game and loot his body...will the cash be there for me to take? and if I find an abandoned camp will the cash be there for me to loot? In essence you have removed an item that makes looting a camp or or killing someone viable.

Im sorry but as nice as we would like the future to be after an event like this...there will still be evil people...unless of course this is just another way for the game to become all PVE ( Note: I like pvp but I am not good at it). full loot should remain full loot so if Im carrying all my cash it should be lootable. I can see why this might be done since its done in almost all other games.

Other than that, from what I saw is that your coding is working as intended...Bins have been cleared, I have a cash amount assigned to me which also looks correct for what I had on PVE. I cant check the cash without an owner since I do not know of someone that had cash but left the game and deleted their char.

[wastelandstoic]

I have only looked briefly at test but I can say unequivocally that the cash amount for my character is MUCH lower than it should be yet all locations where cash was stored are cleared out. If you keep the same code when this goes live I will make sure to put all cash on my character but I'm still not sure that would ensure that it gets transferred correctly?

Also, Ooloo makes good points. Effectively after this change cash will only be obtainable scavenged or though trade/sales and never again as abandoned loot. And, I agree, that's a bit of a let down.

On an aside, when I log into test my game window is very small and changing it to the highest setting still does not fill my screen. I'm not sure what's going on there..?

[thurgond]

The amount of cash seems about right, but not as much as it would have been if I had been warned to move cash out of bins i don't own.

Not sure of the rational for this change. It would solve the problem of not having enough cash on hand if you are half way across the map from home, but make a stash of cash available to other tribe members impossible.

The screen resolution and volume settings were reset by this update, but I was able to successfully reset them.

[chojinuk]

If the amount of cash you're seeing is less then it should be.....

it MAY be because of this line that jordi said..

"- Cash amounts have been assigned to the player marked as the 'owner' for each stack of bills."

Currently we cant see any info or names on who OWNS a stack of bills, that info was removed or hidden.

If like many people who find cash in baskets and then place it in another basket, does that mean
its still owned by the player whose name is on the stack, even though we cant see the name ?

SO Does this mean before you implement this change, just to be safe we should use the trade
window to get our names on these stacks of bills just incase they are in a bin that hasnt got our
name on and its a stack of cash we found in a bin and will still have the original owners name on ?

Confused ? i know i am

sark

[wastelandstoic]

If the amount of cash you're seeing is less then it should be.....

it MAY be because of this line that jordi said..

"- Cash amounts have been assigned to the player marked as the 'owner' for each stack of bills."

Currently we cant see any info or names on who OWNS a stack of bills, that info was removed or hidden.

If like many people who find cash in baskets and then place it in another basket, does that mean
its still owned by the player whose name is on the stack, even though we cant see the name ?

SO Does this mean before you implement this change, just to be safe we should use the trade
window to get our names on these stacks of bills just incase they are in a bin that hasnt got our
name on and its a stack of cash we found in a bin and will still have the original owners name on ?

Confused ? i know i am

sark



This has high potential to be the culprit. If 'owner' can't be seen by a player but is still assigned to the cash then

"- Stacks of cash without an 'owner' have been assigned to the 'owner' of the container holding the stack."

is not occurring. Most all of my dollar bill have no name on them but are in baskets that I own...

[Ooloo]

After reading the latest posts I logged onto the Pve server which I only do to refresh my char there...I looked at my dollars and compared to what was on test and I was 300K short on test ( I know I said it looked like the correct amount in my first post but srry...I don't play Pve so I was wrong )...even tho the other dollars were in a backpack with my name on it...it was not accounted for...On Pvp this would have been devastating because I have over 1 mil that is in a backpack with my name on it but yet not directly acquired by me yet in my possession. (looted)

[Xsyon]

Thanks for the feedback!

I'll try another run with a different strategy. Instead of using the current 'owner' as a priority, cash will first be assigned to the owner of the current container holding that cash. I will also leave the actual cash in game with the next test so that it's easier to calculate how much cash you think should be assigned to your character. I will also set up cash so that you can see the current official owner for each stack.

This is not a change that will be implemented on the Main Servers right away but it's been on my list for a very long time so I've started taking the initial steps to get this working properly.

There are several reasons I want to implement the system of having cash attached to players rather than as a separate inventory item.

1) This system is common to MMOs and familiar to players.

2) This is the system I originally intended to have in game. The current system was put in place as players requested that actual currency used would be up to players. This hasn't worked out well and a single currency is best for all systems and building functions to work properly.

3) It will facilitate future systems such as the planned real estate system where cash could be automatically withdrawn from a player's account.

4) It could be used to protect a player's stash of cash from theft (on the War Server). This could make cash more valuable as it would be the only item that couldn't be looted. Then again it could be used to implement a 'pick pocketing' skill (which was part of my original design) that would only access cash.

Regarding looting cash from abandoned tribes: Yes, this would no longer be possible. I don't think the current system has been beneficial for the game. What's happened is that a few players have most of the in game cash and many have next to nothing. This imbalance is one of the issues affecting trade using cash as the currency.

[xyberviri]

because I have over 1 mil that is in a backpack with my name on it but yet not directly acquired by me yet in my possession. (looted)

Clearly some of us really benefited by playing the game of attrition :rolleyes:

[Xsyon]

The Test Server is now open with a different method of adding cash to players.

I've set up the following:

- Cash is added to the player owning the container holding the cash. Your cash total can be checked on your Pack Panel.

- Cash stacks are NOT currently removed and remain in your containers. This was done so players can better judge what cash total they expect to have.

- Cash stacks should display the current 'owner'. If there is no technical owner the cash stack should display 'Property of Nobody'. If the technical owner is a deleted character, the cash stack should display 'Property of Not Found'. The current owner is NOT being used to assign cash to players but I turned this on to make better sense of the previous test that did assign cash to the technical owner.

My questions to players:

- Is your current cash total what it should be? (based on cash in containers that you own)

- Does this system make better sense or should cash be assigned to the technical owner (as in the first test)?

Thanks!

[wastelandstoic]

This system is better hands down. My cash total looks spot on from adding all the random bins up. Please let us know if you decide not to use this method as I'll trade/ launder my cash to get my name on it if needs be although that would be a pain.

[Xsyon]

Thanks. The current system is what I'll end up using unless problems are reported.

[ferglong]

Just logged onto test server and my cash amount is bang on.

[Mithrilas]

I have 6225 cash, but it is showing 0 cash, no matter what bin, basket, or pouch I put it in.

[Xsyon]

Hello Mithrilas,

Was your 6225 cash in one container or several containers? Are you the owner of all the containers, or are the containers owned by another player or players?

Note: Moving cash around won't update or change anything on the Test Server. The cash was calculated by a script that runs once. It's best to leave any cash that you think should be assigned to you but isn't in its original container in case I need to check it.

Thanks!

[Ladyxsyon]

I'm at a frustration level with the upgrades of this game, so many time you swear and promise us to get ranged combat and animals set right for pathing, yet you come up with these crazy ideas no one has asked for nor wants, why cant you just give us what you have promised for years now, why cant we have better cooking and farming and the rest of the things your ppl who pay you for the game wants, you claim its player driven that is BS SIR, you always have an excuse, stop with them and start focusing on your PROMISES, until then I quit

[Oldtimer]

It would seem to me that it would be beneficial to the game to have a "suggested retail worth" for items. This would let someone know how much one dollar is worth in the game. If someone is charging one dollar for a chisel lets say and another person is charging 200 dollars for a like chisel, then this is very confusing for purchasers. Same goes for blueprints, nails or any other item. This would not stop someone from charging 100 thousand dollars for a blueprint, but would instead let people know how much items are worth and let people know how much their dollars are actually worth.

Having a pickpocketing skill would discourage people from coming into physical contact with other people and would further degrade the sense of community that Xsyon currently has. People can pickpocket you in real life of course, but it is near impossible without being caught, and there are actually police who can apprehend the pickpockets. Since there are no police in Xsyon, people will avoid contact with anyone they do not know, for fear of being pickpocketed for all of their cash. I don't think creating more "loners" is what was originally intended for Xsyon, and this so called pickpocketing skill will surely send Xsyon down that road. Making friends will be near impossible, since you would then not know if your new friend is acutally a good pickpocket. Please do not implement this feature.

Whether you have your own bank as having a container with your cash, or whether all of it is in a personal account, or whether all the cash is actually on your person, well, I don't have any opinion. Any of these methods are fine by me.

Josaph

[MrDDT]

I like the idea of the cash system. It will help trade a lot.
Pickpocking to me seems like a really bad idea, because unless you can remove some of the money off your person it seems like really anti social.
I disagree with Oldtimer on the suggested retail worth. Let players set the value, people will see someone charging 100$ for an item and others charging for 1$ and let the market set it straight. There has to be reasons for the 100$ one else people would never buy it. It's easy to see the value of items, simply goto a trade totem (where most items should be bought anyways) and you can see the values of items from all over the world right there. Who's suggestion are you going to use anyways? Does someone need to go through and figure out the value of each item and on top of that you have curves for value at higher end quality. How are you going to figure that out? Because a 100QL item could be worth 1000x more than a 80QL one. I say just let the market figure it out for you on this one. If people price too high, then people won't buy it. If it's too low, then people will buy it out. It's the great thing about trade.
Now on a dev side of that, if items are easy to come buy and are flooding the market so much, then might need to see why it's so easy, also on the other hand rare items might be too rare items that are millions likely are not how the dev's want that item to be that rare/demanded. One area that's seen little real economy wise is the trade side of items. How rare something is vs it's demand. Items like nails need to be common because they are on high demand and use while other items are common but never get used.

[KeithStone]

Cash should be an item that is not tied to your character until you get it safely back to your totem and deposit it.

Much like putting your money in a real bank, this would allow players to still get the thrill of killing players for their cash out in the wild before they can get it safely to the bank.

[zymmie]

Whose idea was this cash thing change? Really? Does this really need to be fixed or changed?? Seriously, cash is an issue now?? What about combat fixes? What about the lag issues? I had to move my tribe out to an extreme area just to get away from the lag brought about by the tribes that are building these monstrous buildings. These issues have been in game since I first started a few years ago. We have been waiting patiently. I fell in love with this game but I'm about ready to delete it from my computer. I have multiple accounts and was going to add more in support, but I'm done. I wont support this game financially any longer. I'm beyond frustrated!

[Bejaymac]

While my cash is correct I'm not a fan of this idea, very little of the cash I've had in game has come from scavenging, the majority of it has come from dead tribes and the odd abandoned cart.

I see DDT is going on about trade again, face it bud you're never going to rule the marketplace in Xsyon, purely because there isn't one to rule over. I'm in 904 which might skew results a bit, but I have a couple of 5 slot carts on my totem for $50, I have a pile of newbie weapons I've taken from revs (shovels, axes and knifes) for $1 each, yet despite them being on there for a few months now nobody has bought anything. Why should they when they can make everything themselves with some patience and a lot of grinding.

[xyberviri]

The problem is there isn't any way to generate cash at the moment other than just scavenging, honestly at the rate its going to take me to find 5k to buy that recipe i could have just unlocked it.

On the other side the amount of stuff im going to have to gather for you to want to buy it is not worth the time its going to take me to trek it half way cross the map to sell it to you.

Not to mention i can't see your quests from anywhere else, Quest totems are like the store side of the market. Ideally people should be able to say i want X for Y, most of the time that should be "I want X, offering Y money"

But again there is a problem in that i have no where to sell stuff to get money to offer to other players or to purchase stuff for my self. So this leads back to gathering everything we need ourselves and not being able to really trade.

[MrDDT]

Because the economy is not a focus. I used to offer money to people all the time. When you had power house traders that have tons of money and low on items, they in turn sell for a profit. So out lying totems and tribes would sell to the traders at a lower rate than normal but in bulk. This is exactly how my tribe worked. I would buy massive amounts of items not because I could sell every item I bought but because it would give me a huge stockpile of everything.

I do not want to derail this tread anymore so I'm going to stop my reply about it here.

I really like the cash option of no weight and able to be carried around easy. It will help a lot.

[Pwnuts]

I've add my current feedback + some technical issues about the testserver to a ticket.


I'm at a frustration level with the upgrades of this game, so many time you swear and promise us to get ranged combat and animals set right for pathing, yet you come up with these crazy ideas no one has asked for nor wants, why cant you just give us what you have promised for years now, why cant we have better cooking and farming and the rest of the things your ppl who pay you for the game wants, you claim its player driven that is BS SIR, you always have an excuse, stop with them and start focusing on your PROMISES, until then I quit

this was suggested and requested over years, and for sure its a nice step forward to carry money for trading on PvP server, or even without any weight on both servers. be patient and wait. non of the stuff you wrote will push any of the upcoming features further or change prioritys.

[Xsyon]

Thanks for all the input so far.

I'm going to lock this thread for now as the current Test Server build is not set up with the cash consolidation test. I'll re-open the thread when I run this test again. For now, it seems that my latest set up worked best for players.

Thanks again!