Enough with the armchair programmers please.

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03-12-2011, 11:39 AM
mindtrigger

Enough with the armchair programmers please.

Unless some of you here are professional game programmers with MMO experience, please stop pretending you know what Notorious should be doing right now and just let them do their jobs. If turning on features or adding more load to the server would help them, THEY WOULD DO IT. Those of you who do not work on complex systems or programming code likely have little clue how to troubleshoot these problems correctly.

If you are all going to continue throwing a temper tantrum on the forums, at least admit that this is what you are doing. The people who want and need this game to work more than ANY of you are the game's developers. This is their livelihood. For you it is a GAME. Go outside, get some air and perspective and let them do their job.
03-12-2011, 11:42 AM
fatboy21007

congrats. your winner for complaining about the complainer whose board.
03-12-2011, 11:43 AM
d3m0nd0

I want them to keep posting! I find there QQ's entertaining. I mean i could spend money on a book, but theres far more drama on these forums. I'm lovin it.
03-12-2011, 11:46 AM
darkbladed

/totally agree OP

though half of them (not all) are trolls and it doesn't help to fight with them; it's what they want.
03-12-2011, 11:51 AM
rajaxone

Quote:

Originally Posted by d3m0nd0

I want them to keep posting! I find there QQ's entertaining. I mean i could spend money on a book, but theres far more drama on these forums. I'm lovin it.

agreed, this is what I paid 40 bucks for :D

I didn't know we get to play a game as well.
03-12-2011, 11:55 AM
Koll

Ditto with OP; Launch is on 15 MAR guys... patience my minions, patience...
03-12-2011, 12:00 PM
Shukano

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koll

Ditto with OP; Launch is on 15 MAR guys... patience my minions, patience...

Official launch, not pre-order launch. Doesn't help their cause much that they royally screwed up totem placement.
Doesn't bother me too much as I have to work tonight anyway but I had hoped to get a little play time in this weekend considering this is supposed to be our prelaunch.

But I understand why others are a bit peeved. I just hope they work it all out in time because if they can't get it together at latest by the 15th, I fear they'll lose alot of players....
03-12-2011, 12:24 PM
StarvingSteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by mindtrigger

Those of you who do not work on complex systems or programming code likely have little clue how to troubleshoot these problems correctly.

Exactly.
Everybody with experience in this field knows that the proper way to troubleshoot these problems is by launching the game after you made several unrelated and untested changes to it.
03-12-2011, 12:25 PM
Sirius

While I am sure your technical expertise is considerable, you have a serious problem with tunnel vision if you think the devs' technical concerns are the only relevant consideration at play here.

There's a reason engineers are infrequently entrusted with exclusive control over the business model of a company that's expected to bring in profits.
03-12-2011, 12:34 PM
Dirt

I am going to venture outside today, get my mind off the game. Yep, my mind has been on this game steady since i first logged in sometime last month. Thats the way i seem to do things, all or nothing. Gonna sit at the lake where the snow has melted back and have a few beers.
Right, i'll sit down there and think of the game, or at least stew on the pressure inside me to get on-line and accomplish something in my game world. This is what it comes down to for me, a nearly physical need to be progressing in-game, because real life just isnt as interesting. Books, t.v., scrabble , these things dont hold my attention for long. Gotta keep my mind occupied with the pseudo world some decent games provide. yep, sad but true. It also provides a fix other than drinking (which i can always get into.). So right on, to the lake i go, havent had a beer for a couple months, should be an alright day. Have a good one!
03-12-2011, 12:49 PM
Armand

Premature game launch ---> Bitch phase --> Defend the dev phase --> more bitching ---> more dev stroking --> people get bored, stop logging --> game faceplants or recoups

Seen it all before. There's no stopping it. Enjoy the ride.
03-12-2011, 12:55 PM
Sirius

I sense someone's about to get booted from Hopi, lol
03-12-2011, 01:19 PM
Armand

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius

I sense someone's about to get booted from Hopi, lol

Things might turn out great, and I hope they do. I'm here for better or worse regardless. Forty bucks isn't gonna break me.
03-12-2011, 01:35 PM
shadowlz

Whats even worse are the 'armchair' programmers that complain about people complaining and state the obvious like "I programed b4 and unreal skript iz rlly hrd. Jookys havving hrd time im suer" and then put that in EVERY topic that complains, putting them on about the same level of the people that constantly post topics complaining. Obviously hes having a hard time, if he wasn't the damn game would be done and ready durp.

Code:

While these_people == 'alive' stab stab stab
03-12-2011, 01:58 PM
mindtrigger

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius

While I am sure your technical expertise is considerable, you have a serious problem with tunnel vision if you think the devs' technical concerns are the only relevant consideration at play here.

There's a reason engineers are infrequently entrusted with exclusive control over the business model of a company that's expected to bring in profits.

I didn't say your concerns were irrelevant. I'm not any less irritated about the situation than anyone else, but I know bitching isn't going to fix it.

The shit's broken. Let them fix it so we can play.

Added after 6 minutes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirt

I am going to venture outside today, get my mind off the game. Yep, my mind has been on this game steady since i first logged in sometime last month. Thats the way i seem to do things, all or nothing. Gonna sit at the lake where the snow has melted back and have a few beers.
Right, i'll sit down there and think of the game, or at least stew on the pressure inside me to get on-line and accomplish something in my game world. This is what it comes down to for me, a nearly physical need to be progressing in-game, because real life just isnt as interesting. Books, t.v., scrabble , these things dont hold my attention for long. Gotta keep my mind occupied with the pseudo world some decent games provide. yep, sad but true. It also provides a fix other than drinking (which i can always get into.). So right on, to the lake i go, havent had a beer for a couple months, should be an alright day. Have a good one!

Damn brother, life is incredible. If anything I use these games like I would previously have used TV; as a good reason to sit on my ass in between everything else I need to do or enjoy doing. Down time.

My only regret in this life is that I will die eventually, and I won't have even a fraction of the time I would need to spend time on all the things I am interested in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armand

Premature game launch ---> Bitch phase --> Defend the dev phase --> more bitching ---> more dev stroking --> people get bored, stop logging --> game faceplants or recoups

Seen it all before. There's no stopping it. Enjoy the ride.

Agreed.

Yeah, they messed up. It's done, so people need to decide if they can accept that and live on, or just leave. Anything else is counterproductive at this stage.

Added after 5 minutes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowlz

Whats even worse are the 'armchair' programmers that complain about people complaining and state the obvious like "I programed b4 and unreal skript iz rlly hrd. Jookys havving hrd time im suer" and then put that in EVERY topic that complains, putting them on about the same level of the people that constantly post topics complaining. Obviously hes having a hard time, if he wasn't the damn game would be done and ready durp.

Code:

While these_people == 'alive' stab stab stab

Yeah, I'll overlook my ongoing career in tech and programming if it will help your fantasy along. If you are going to make a post that attempts to make yourself sound superior in some way, at least put some effort into it.

--

If you ask my what my complaint is, it's that the devs haven't come out and said "We deeply apologize; we screwed the pooch on this and here is what we are doing to fix it". As others have mentioned here, during launch/development problems is the last time you want cut back on communicating with your community. People are a lot more understanding of situations like this when you own up to your mistakes, and keep them informed on the corrections you are making.
03-12-2011, 02:05 PM
Sirius

Pontificate much?
03-12-2011, 02:07 PM
mindtrigger

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius

Pontificate much?

Rage over a video game much?
03-12-2011, 02:12 PM
Sirius

Distort and exaggerate facts to suit your preferred conclusion much? My comments regarding the game have been quite rational and level-headed.
03-12-2011, 02:12 PM
shadowlz

Quote:

Originally Posted by mindtrigger

If you are going to make a post that attempts to make yourself sound superior in some way, at least put some effort into it.

Pot, meet kettel.
03-12-2011, 02:13 PM
Marcolo

On a side note ...

It is interesting to me that the standard development methodologies and processes are being questioned more and more, to make room for "indy" development. I think we are seeing the start of a shift from the traditional to less measurable methods of software development (at least in the gaming industry).

Essentially, it is opening up opportunities for companies to be paid to "crowd source" the debugging and testing processes of development.
03-12-2011, 02:55 PM
mgilbrtsn

Well, I was a lead programmer for WoW, Rift, Vanguard, EVE, SWG, and a host of other ones..... So my advice is to ......... Wait, I signed non competitive documents. Sorry!
03-12-2011, 06:04 PM
BigCountry

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgilbrtsn

Well, I was a lead programmer for WoW, Rift, Vanguard, EVE, SWG, and a host of other ones..... So my advice is to ......... Wait, I signed non competitive documents. Sorry!

lol!

Yeah, It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out something is fundamentally broken within this game at the moment. You do not need any programming experience to come to that conclusion. Only an active login.

The only thing keeping us all around is we are all mmorpg addicts..
lol
:(
03-12-2011, 07:28 PM
Ethaven

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCountry

lol!

Yeah, It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out something is fundamentally broken within this game at the moment. You do not need any programming experience to come to that conclusion. Only an active login.

The only thing keeping us all around is we are all mmorpg addicts..
lol
:(

/sign and agree

Kinda bummed I didn't get to play tonight. I'm really hoping the huge mistakes stop here. I'd really like to see this game get up off the ground. I might buy 2-3 more accounts before I quit, just to help them along if things keep going this way. I want to see them create a really sound game and make something at least 50k people can enjoy. However, time flies by quicker for me if I'm actually playing a game instead of just watching it stutter along. =P

To summarize: I support the game, and I'm not quitting, just saying, if I do - I WILL NOT be demanding a refund.
03-12-2011, 09:40 PM
blackzilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armand

Premature game launch ---> Bitch phase --> Defend the dev phase --> more bitching ---> more dev stroking --> people get bored, stop logging --> game faceplants or recoups

Seen it all before. There's no stopping it. Enjoy the ride.

True story ^^^
03-12-2011, 11:00 PM
ifireallymust

You no like my grocery store analogy, OP? I thought it was scintillating myself, a truly riveting, yet insightful read. Other than that, though, I'm pretty much in agreement with you.
03-13-2011, 01:35 AM
Zerlargal

Quote:

Originally Posted by mindtrigger

If you ask my what my complaint is, it's that the devs haven't come out and said "We deeply apologize; we screwed the pooch on this and here is what we are doing to fix it". As others have mentioned here, during launch/development problems is the last time you want cut back on communicating with your community. People are a lot more understanding of situations like this when you own up to your mistakes, and keep them informed on the corrections you are making.

Let me refer you to this for a response from Jooky himself.
03-13-2011, 03:45 AM
Risk

Aye...again not a fan boy...bitched at the Jookster tons of times about Craft....freakin out at him atm...but his crew is workin gangbusters atm...do I want to get my toon started yes...hell yess...buggin me out I cant...but there's a reason...IMO theres never an 'after beta' with MMOGs...gimme one MMOG thats just dandy with thier shit and ill agree...successful....
Add onto this that this company is completely private..atm...really....ya want another cookie cutter?
03-13-2011, 05:25 AM
Zsolo

Well said.