A crafter/traders (positive) view of open PvP

First I want to give a little background on me.
I played 15+ MMORPGS and always craft and trade a lot in everyone. When I mean a lot it has been 8h+/day in some...

I played Warhammer Online and really enjoyed the PvP, it had a mening to it.

But I'm 90% crafter and trader and a 10% PvP person. Where PvP for me is kind of organised like attacking a castle in Warhammer Online, of a PvP map.

And...
I DO want open PvP in a game I play. Why?
I really like having that hair raising feeling when I'm gathering in dangerous places. Just knowing that I can in a second loose (hopefully) everything I have. Nothing can beat that good feeling.
Knowing that I'm untouchable makes me want to go and play a single player game instead.

Ok. If I ignore that it makes the game A LOT more fun for me. Why else do I want open PvP?

Easy. As a trader and crafter it sux so bad when everyone can get anything easy. No reason to trade with me, they just go out and get it them selfs. Crafters must NOT be able to get everything them self because if they do it's just a social single player game. It makes some items (raw material for crafters and in the end crafted items) rare by them selfs without the game making just drop X of a kind every day or so. I LOVE self regulated games.

If someone complain about it takes 10 person 1h to get just 1 item for a crafter, think about the value of that item! Ofc that item MUST be useful or very desirable in another way (unique looks and so on).

If a MMORPG makes me feel "Darn, no where safe and I need to go to the toilet NOW!" then I like it. I don't like when it is safe to leave a game unattended and nothing bad happens 100% of the time. Thats just plain boring.

But now the BAD BAD BAD BAD side of open PvP.
If the attacker have nothing to lose on attacking other players it will just turn to a gank feast instead of giving that thrill. First rule of a open PvP game with NO exceptions (no, never ever): Only one char per server
Otherwise people will just have a ganker char that get all the negative shit, and send all stuff to their main char.

I want a world where it takes me 15 min to get to a gathering place and takes me 30 min to get so full I must return home. Then I have the choice of gambling if I like so, to stay the whole duration and risk everything or go home early with less weight and risk less. That is I risk 60 min if I want to gamble, or 45 min if I only gather 50%. So for me that extra 15 min (33% more time) is worth 100% more material. Since I can get robbed a lot of the time and still gather more in the end. But it will sux more then I get robbed. :)

Runes of Magic have that BAD BAD BAD open PvP. People even gain bonus for ganking and the little negative goes away by it self with a little time (and multiple chars). So there you are ganked all the time. No fun at all.

PKing for me is attacking just for no reason except getting loot from someone (or just killing for fun). Killing (or killed by) someone my clan has a war with is PvP and fun, if I don't want to be at war I have to do something about it. :)

To sum it up: I never PK (I do PvP thou), but I love having PKers around to make my world dangerous as long as I don't get ganked every 5 min. PKed (attempts) a few times a day is ok for me, say once per 2-4h playeing. Then it makes my world dangerous, but don't make it unplayable.

But both PvP and PKing must be regulated so it keep the world dangerous but fun.

Personally I don't even like that the cities will be safe from attacks at the start, but I can understand the need for it.

Fallen Earth is a good game that got boring because of no open PvP. A game like FA and Xsyon need to feel dangerous, otherwise it wont feel like a post apocalypse game.

Oh, I remember. I do PK some times, if I see a bot I ALWAYS kill it! I HATE BOTS! Oh sorry, but I do hate em. ;)

And to end it all: This is MY view, yours will ofc differ and rightfully so.

I like your post Khenke

I very rarely pvp mainly a gatherer/trader.Played Eve and DF.Eve was more enjoyable due to it's market.

BTW I never will be any good at pvp as normally i'm dead before I decide what key I need to activate.:) :) :)

That was a great post i really enjoyed reading it. I feel exactly the same. I swear there is quite a few times I have played games and my kidneys have nearly exploded because I daren't move from my seat

Yes, nice post.

Don't forget that the gankers will have a hard time hiding in Xsyon so we can go after them and any tribes that support them if they become too bothersome. :)

OP provided us with an extremely argumentated cutting edge analysis of the truth.
http://www.funnyforumpics.com/forums...-Cool-Pope.jpg

OP knows his shit!

I wish this forum had a rep system and I had some rep just so I could give it all to the OP :)

All but the last part is perfect - my opinion doesn't, in fact, differ from yours. Why? Because your post is logic, not opinion :D Some people simply cannot have any fun while they perceive a threat (those people who say, "fight or flight? What does that first option stand for?"). Most of us homo sapiens, however, like to get high on this chemical our adrenal glands produce called adrenaline, which puts any other drug to shame. Doubt and challenge are what make life worth living. Those who don't have challenge in their life - either because they're too afraid to enter any situation with serious challenge or because their lifestyle simply precludes challenge (the over-protected, the super-rich who are relegated to figureheads rather than running their family's business themselves, etc) usually substitute for the lack of adrenaline with some other thrilling chemical - caffeine, alky, cocaine, meth, whatever. If you don't believe a game can provide adrenaline, then you haven't played an exciting game :P

Basically the risk is what makes it fun. Its such an over-used statement because it's true and obvious to most everyone. The reward is cheap and worthless when you didn't risk anything to get it - even more so in a mmo world where it IS literally worthless in real world terms.

And you're right, too. Open PVP and looting will make items more valuable - people will be needing to replace what was looted, supply lines will get raided, good resource spots will be fought over and thereby rendered unproductive from time to time, etc and so on. In addition to that it opens up tons of new positions for the players - guards, bounty hunters, law enforcement, thieves, raiders, mercenaries (blue tribes hiring red tribes to take care of blue competition will and rightfully should be a major thing), detectives (with localized cash and even localized items/styles once the game world expands to new servers/areas, this could become a lot more than just greasing the palms of a few red mercs or thugs for hire to find out who gave them their orders - there are all kinds of things beyond that too, like what kind of resources certain tribes use, which could give you hints and clues in detective work involved with blue-on-blue crimes by proxy), etc and so on, lots and lots of things.

I think you'll find that lots of people agree with you, the main differences of opinion will be on how PK should be managed to keep it from becoming rampant while still leaving the players at risk when they are careless and giving people who want to take the risks of PK lifestyle a worthy gameplay experience. I think that just allowing the "dedicated" early adapters to create their towns and societies under the safe zone rules at first will go a long way. Instead of people just being dumped into a pk haven there will be whole systems of governance and protection set up before you're ever truly always at risk. The main people who will disagree with you are those who just ask for what is blatantly convenient to their play style without thinking about how it will affect gameplay and long-term viability. I guess there are some people who genuinely can get satisfaction from rewards without risk, but its far from the norm in a species which automatically receives such potent chemical stimulation for winning out against danger.

Anyway sorry for the wall of text its just nice when you see a non-pvp player who understands that open pvp and pk helps THEM too, if they're smart. The only people it really HURTS in the long run are the macroers (another large source of people complaining about open pvp, those who want to just turn on a bot and have it get them to top level can't do so when any PKer is going to kill them on sight, even if they usually wouldn't bother that person) and the incredibly dumb folks who don't learn from their first few slaughters not to go into the areas where PKs hang out.

Reefer wrote:

Quote:

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I wish this forum had a rep system and I had some rep just so I could give it all to the OP :)

All but the last part is perfect - my opinion doesn't, in fact, differ from yours. Why? Because your post is logic, not opinion :D Some people simply cannot have any fun while they perceive a threat (those people who say, "fight or flight? What does that first option stand for?"). Most of us homo sapiens, however, like to get high on this chemical our adrenal glands produce called adrenaline, which puts any other drug to shame. Doubt and challenge are what make life worth living. Those who don't have challenge in their life - either because they're too afraid to enter any situation with serious challenge or because their lifestyle simply precludes challenge (the over-protected, the super-rich who are relegated to figureheads rather than running their family's business themselves, etc) usually substitute for the lack of adrenaline with some other thrilling chemical - caffeine, alky, cocaine, meth, whatever. If you don't believe a game can provide adrenaline, then you haven't played an exciting game :P

Basically the risk is what makes it fun. Its such an over-used statement because it's true and obvious to most everyone. The reward is cheap and worthless when you didn't risk anything to get it - even more so in a mmo world where it IS literally worthless in real world terms.

And you're right, too. Open PVP and looting will make items more valuable - people will be needing to replace what was looted, supply lines will get raided, good resource spots will be fought over and thereby rendered unproductive from time to time, etc and so on. In addition to that it opens up tons of new positions for the players - guards, bounty hunters, law enforcement, thieves, raiders, mercenaries (blue tribes hiring red tribes to take care of blue competition will and rightfully should be a major thing), detectives (with localized cash and even localized items/styles once the game world expands to new servers/areas, this could become a lot more than just greasing the palms of a few red mercs or thugs for hire to find out who gave them their orders - there are all kinds of things beyond that too, like what kind of resources certain tribes use, which could give you hints and clues in detective work involved with blue-on-blue crimes by proxy), etc and so on, lots and lots of things.

I think you'll find that lots of people agree with you, the main differences of opinion will be on how PK should be managed to keep it from becoming rampant while still leaving the players at risk when they are careless and giving people who want to take the risks of PK lifestyle a worthy gameplay experience. I think that just allowing the "dedicated" early adapters to create their towns and societies under the safe zone rules at first will go a long way. Instead of people just being dumped into a pk haven there will be whole systems of governance and protection set up before you're ever truly always at risk. The main people who will disagree with you are those who just ask for what is blatantly convenient to their play style without thinking about how it will affect gameplay and long-term viability. I guess there are some people who genuinely can get satisfaction from rewards without risk, but its far from the norm in a species which automatically receives such potent chemical stimulation for winning out against danger.

Anyway sorry for the wall of text its just nice when you see a non-pvp player who understands that open pvp and pk helps THEM too, if they're smart. The only people it really HURTS in the long run are the macroers (another large source of people complaining about open pvp, those who want to just turn on a bot and have it get them to top level can't do so when any PKer is going to kill them on sight, even if they usually wouldn't bother that person) and the incredibly dumb folks who don't learn from their first few slaughters not to go into the areas where PKs hang out.

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For the love of god m8!

Stop making walls and just say I agree and maby the part that I put in fat text. The rest was just fillout text.

http://www.feministe.us/blog/wp-cont...LL_OF_TEXT.jpg

I surrender this time and just agree with you, Reefer.

You'll probably become a novelist in the future.

100 % PVP. But here is a catch. Give tribe members a 10 % in defense, in their village only. So anyones dare to attack u in your village, will know that u have a defense bonus. :)

+nods+
Very true, very logical, and joe's addition too.
Beeing a crafter mostly too, I absolutely share the thoughts about the necessity of the risk.
Thank you very much Khenke, Reefer, Joe for the so called walls, good content is allowed to take it's time to read.

I do have some pressing concerns about this game. First off player actions are going to be very hard to restrict in relations to pvp around cities :( Any PKer with 1/2 a brain would just sit in front of a city folow a gatherer out of the city let him colect till he is full and fat then just chase him down and kill him while he is slow. And crafters wont be able to build much without resources.

Not true Nick2279, The only way you will be able to hide well in this game is to use your hide skill. But any one who wants to build up there perception skill will still be able to see them.

Also I would think that most tribes will be making camp close to as much resources as they can.

To the OP this was a B) post, That is if your still around.

Umn i think hiding in this game is ridiculosly easy. just teraform yourself a hill with a hole in it. sit in the hole and using 3rd person view you can see out of it. even if the resorces are close a pker with light armor and skill in running/sprinting can probably catch up to a heavy/loaded scavenger.

But yes i agree it is fun. I remember in EVE online i would scan down wrecks in lvl 5 missions in 0.0 space for salvaging :) awesome way to make money. Can make like 10-25mil a day. but flyung around in a go-fast destroyer with salvagers and cargo expansions. Its so fun flying with no guns and no armour.

So if I was gathering some wood and i see some guy running at me swinging and i pull out my knife and stab him first does that make me the pker? lol

Well ehhh sure i supose but in my opinion sum1 with say a 24 inch machete would do better in a fight then sum1 with a knife.

joexxxz wrote:

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100 % PVP. But here is a catch. Give tribe members a 10 % in defense, in their village only. So anyones dare to attack u in your village, will know that u have a defense bonus. :)

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Defense always has an advantage...In reality anyway not sure bout the game...

myeadon wrote:

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So if I was gathering some wood and i see some guy running at me swinging and i pull out my knife and stab him first does that make me the pker? lol

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More then likely not. Chances are that anyone attacking you will be evil, if you are good you will not get neg rep for attack an evil person.

What i wish to know is how realisticly can a crafter (or any non combat related class) defend themselves from sum1 with the intent to kill them.



Random Picture but i think its kinda epic :) Enjoy

http://www.xsyon.com/images/fbfiles/images/bear.jpg

Don't know about how well a non combat related class will be able to defend themselves from sum1 with the intent to kill them.

But as far as that just teraform yourself a hill with a hole in it. Will not work! When the game goes live you will only be able to teraform in side your tribe area, And only(if I have this right) if tribe leader(or who ever) gives you the right to.

:( lol dang that sux was kinda lokin forward to some kinds of teraform war sieges :) 1 side trying to teraform a ramp another trying to either teraform the ramp down or make their walls higher :) oh well it was a fun idea i was playing around with in my head. your way makes much more sense then mine. :0 but i still think it would be hilarious to teraform sum1s vilage upon a montain while they are gone.