Feedback Request 03/11/2013 - Tribe Upkeep

Just tested and yep, it is ticking 1% every in game hour...for testing purposes only, I hope.

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Originally Posted by Drevar

Just tested and yep, it is ticking 1% every in game hour...for testing purposes only, I hope.

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Test is on a very rapid increase in game time for the regrowth of the terraforming/grass etc effects.

Based on my math it looks like 100 game days will empty out your resources in your totem. We know that 1 real day = 9.1 game days.

Just noticed on test that when I try to plow for farming it says my resource upkeep must be above 20%. Might want to add "Farming not available" under the rest of them in the resource upkeep window.

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Originally Posted by fatboy21007

my whole entire point here is the fact, people aren't going to pay a sub to grind resources just so they can build. and since this is going off buildings. Imagine a giant tower.... and wat decides how big a building really is? and yes 734 granite isn't that bad, but the fact if no one in the tribe wants skill decay nukeing skills cuz they gotta upkeep. Yea really crappy idea. I simply don't like this system, As yes if a tribe my size was fully active, sure they can do it, But lets face it here, that's impossible. so the few who do stay active have to spec into these skills just to keep there tribe useable. and ddt, I know u cant possibly be agreeing with the notion of Locking out terraforming, building on tribes. Upkeep should be 100% for nothing but bonus's perks to work towards. Not perks we should ALREADY get with are friggin totems. Just think, new player sets a totem down, to build etc, he has to do upkeep first, then do the building, and for each building he adds Upkeep rises. Wth, bad bad system as you are taking the only thing going for xsyon and killing peoples ability to do it. Now I ant got much built on my tribe cuz I knew 1 day this wat used to be *suggestion* might hit the game. Now that it has its nuts. This system doesn't encourage trade. It encourages uninstalls..lol Im all for a upkeep systems that benefits people feeding it. But I am 100% against any that takes away a tribes ability to function. Why not have terraforming bonus's, Building bonus's. Ie make a building with say Intel boosts, well if upkeeps paid you will have a crafting building that gives those bonus's. Etc. I think this is the type of system needed Bonus's to reward those who do the work , and choose which bonus they want for wat they are doing. Remember this is a sandbox, Or was, anymore this sandpit is getting more n more limiting and not making it much fun. So neither Remove skill decay or change upkeep to where it is purely for bonus's, This is a crap ton of skills ingame that everyone would love bonus;s on. hell even have add Quality to items that you craft if your bonus is 100% I see more benefits and more people willing to feed it just for that. but to feed it for the rite to keep building, terraforming, im sorry, Just no way in hell. Taking that way and making it a daily chore is not gaming, its clocking into work just to play. No matter if its small or large. Hell id hate to see wat ur bill is ddt..lol

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I agree with this for obvious reasons. As a large tribe with a lot of buildings, this is a complete game killer for us. $53,000.00 for Bonus upkeep so you can bet we won't be bothering with that. Goodbye Bonuses. 4313 Granite so goodbye to any future building. In good times our active roster is about 12-15 people and in low times about 5 or 6. This has cycle up and down for the past 9 months. As everyone knows the biggest problem with Xsyon is maintaining a good population. If there were thousands of people playing this totem concept would probably work just fine, however we have spent a year and a half trying to build an active community and alas Xsyon's current game model does not encourage people to join tribes, rather it encourages people to homestead.

It's already very difficult to get people in tribe because they can drop a totem and get more bonus as Leader than joining a tribe. Drop a totem and you can build your own place right off. Prior to free play any player you got in tribe expanded your tribe boundary. Now we invite, spend hours teaching, training, answering questions for 12 to 15 players just to get one that subs and might stay in tribe for a spell. We spend hours cleaning up all the left over baggage from the trial players who spend a few days to a week then quit. And the free to play doesn't seem to have increased the game population, it just made running a tribe more of a grind.

Now we will spend even more hours grinding just to continue something we have worked for a year and a half building and creating. I have been in business for many years and I learned a long time ago that you get much better results by rewarding hard work rather than punishment for the lack thereof. Most successful MMO's reward hard work with special items, abilities and status. This gives people an incentive to do the tough stuff and a feeling of accomplishment when they have succeeded. I can't recall any that use a punishment system for doing great stuff. That is how this feels. Build and create some incredible things and rather than reap the rewards for a great accomplishment, you have to pay. This is just one more nail in the coffin for large tribes and anyone who hopes to build a large tribe. I can say now without reservation, if this system goes in, we will move on to greener pastures.

Maybe it's just time for the large tribes to give up the fight. Heaven knows we have tried and I grow weary.

I don't think we need totem upkeep at all. I don't see anything wrong with the current economy. The game needs more content, not more grinding just to do what we already do now. Please stop taking away and give something to us. If you need a sink for dollars, fine, but give a reward for putting money in the totem. Granite? No way. This is a very bad idea.

My Idea for Totem upkeep:
-lower the ammount of granite for smaller tribes
give Bonuses for filling all three trees
Bonus for the Tribe:
- respawn for each full tree a animal (chicken or random) at the Totem each day
Now the hardest Skill Bonecrafting is a little easyer for Beginner and one of the best rewards

Since the construction upkeep is based on number of structures, I feel sorry for anyone who walled in their tribe with posts instead of regular walls....

Thanks for the comments so far, especially from those who provided data on time taken to gather resource amounts and presented suggestions for upkeep bonuses. That's the type of feedback I am looking for.

Please keep in mind, this is a system in progress and testing. The initial values were arbitrary until I could gather more data and information from you players.

Also, keep in mind that resources can and should be traded. Most of you are considering only grinding for upkeep resources. The goal is to give these resources that any player can gather additional value.

Consider this: currently in game there are over 25,000 schemes stockpiled, mostly by larger veteran tribes. One of the most frequent complaints to support is from new players that can't get their hands on these schemes. They have nothing of value to offer the veteran players with a surplus of schemes. With upkeep, now these new players can obtain something the veteran players value - time. Rather than grind for 100 currency, put some schemes up for sale. Rather than collect granite, purchase it from players with low upkeep costs. Trade totems will greatly facilitate these transactions.

With the current settings on the test server, the largest tribes in game will require 1000 upkeep over the course of 22 real days, that's a resource drain of 45 units per day, roughly the equivalent of building one mason wall per day. I think that's reasonable and my goal is to start with minimal costs and ramp up if needed.

Again, thank you for the suggestions and I will consider what additional bonuses are feasible.

I think its important to keep in mind that a large tribe does not actually mean lots of players. It means an accumulation of accounts over a long period of time. Speaking solely from my experience in Raven Moon this upkeep requirement will fall upon the same 2-4 people each day/week/month ect. This has the potential to add grind to grind to grind, taking time away from these players enjoyment of the game. It seems like bonuses (lots and varried) would be a better way to go rather than penalties through any upkeep system. The bottom line -if the upkeep requirements are nominal for a "large tribe" fine, if they become a hassle then I think we will see a stronger trend towards fewer if any larger tribes.

Xsyons point about resource trading is taken and hopefully that would be a plentiful and viable option..?

Thanks Xsyon, this will help economy.

I think getting 1k granite shouldnt be to hard. It takes me about 2 hours to gather granite for that. Every 22 days is very little time gathering granite.

I don't believe this will force trade for large tribes but it will be a start.

I still would like to see other bonuses using this upkeep system, and maybe even using other types of resources will give other types of bonus.