Broken Mechanic? Tar?

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03-23-2011, 07:58 AM
ac1dtrip

Broken Mechanic? Tar?

Decided to start my own thread on this topic since it was off topic in another thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kajones

If you want some PvP, try moving your totem off of that Tar so people actually have a chance to get at it. It's the only draw to your area there is and you've got it locked down inside a homestead.

Sittin' at the top of that peak on the southern lake island, bitchin about nothing to do, and you have one of the biggest draws in the game sealed up. Go figure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1dtrip

I've noticed this also. Totem on tar makes it inaccessible to all others in the game and I'm not talking hard to get I'm talking litteraly the game will not let you grab the Tar. This seems very game breaking. So atm we have one tribe that has access to an item no one else can have just by having their totem in the right place at the right time. I'm sure there may be other places with tar but it's very rare and so far seems to be the only item you litteraly cannot pick up unless you are in the tribe that placed the totem or there is no totem around. If I'm mistaken or there is another thread on this please do direct me that way. Thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jadzia

As far as I know tar has no use for now. How knows, when they open up new lands there might be a lot of tar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1dtrip

Or tar is used to make fire arrows or other weapons only these special tribes can have. Either way doesn't seem balanced or fair the way it is now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfmoonstrike

Balanced, fair? Sorry but if they are the only ones to do it then yeah that sucks but thats how goes. Figure out a way to beat them despite the advantage, if this ever comes true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1dtrip

Except with current game mechanics even when tribes are able to be attacked they can choose to be attacked. Also this tar seems to be in a safe zone so attacking them anyhow is impossible. Only strategy is straight up joining their guild and conning them out of it or buying it which again gives them a huge advantage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jadzia

If I remember well Jordi said tar will only be used in a later phase of the game, after Prelude.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dontaze_Mebro

He who controls the tar controls the universe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1dtrip

Well as of now only a small percentage of people have access to this and can stock up, hypothetically, a lot more than people could catch up with. Still makes little sense this is the only item you cannot access once a totem is put near it.

At this point that is very plausible in the Universe of Xsyon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfmoonstrike

Sure currently they have an advantage but we have no idea what the future will bring. Plus as far as I know tar is useless currently.

I'm suggesting making tar accessible to everyone or an explanation of why it is not and if this is working as intended. If it is and Tar does become a huge problem just remember you(DEVS) had tons of time to fix it.

Anymore thoughts about this are welcomed thanks.
03-23-2011, 08:12 AM
Redus

Why does everyone want to have access to everything? Is the point not of games like these to trade the resources you have with those that you do not? If some people have access to tar and you need it trade it to them or they decide to keep it to themselves to have an advantage over the rest.

Should other people be able to get it when it is in someone else there area? Well yes I think it should be possible, but it should still stay rare. We need more of those rare resources not less!
03-23-2011, 08:13 AM
blackzilla

I have a money tree on my property does that mean it is unfair because you don't and want it and can't have it? I see no problem with what the homesteaders did, they have a monopoly like in the real world today... Learn to work with it instead of crying about unfairness.
03-23-2011, 08:18 AM
ac1dtrip

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redus

Why does everyone want to have access to everything? Is the point not of games like these to trade the resources you have with those that you do not? If some people have access to tar and you need it trade it to them or they decide to keep it to themselves to have an advantage over the rest.

Should other people be able to get it when it is in someone else there area? Well yes I think it should be possible, but it should still stay rare. We need more of those rare resources not less!

Exactly you said it. "To have an advantage over the rest" by simply placing a totem not by skill not by trade but by knowing what I consider a flawed mechanic no where else in the game. A flaw that could possibly one shot you later on. No I do not see the point of this game as being I found it first I should now have a huge advantage over everyone. Rare and impossible are two totally different things. It's called a monopoly and as far as we know a monoply is very possible and I can assure you an monoply of anything can destroy a game very quickly including entire societies.
03-23-2011, 08:19 AM
Niburu

People get annoyed when a msg on the screen tells you you are not allowed to do that. this is not sandbox. however if we would have gates ingame it would be no problem to remove safe zones because safe zones are player created and protected then which fits much more into a sandbox
03-23-2011, 08:25 AM
ac1dtrip

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackzilla

I have a money tree on my property does that mean it is unfair because you don't and want it and can't have it? I see no problem with what the homesteaders did, they have a monopoly like in the real world today... Learn to work with it instead of crying about unfairness.

Good to know you think monoplies should happen and there should be one world power and that you should learn to work with itc as in follow what ever rules they feel like putting forth. Failed at economics.

Added after 5 minutes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niburu

People get annoyed when a msg on the screen tells you you are not allowed to do that. this is not sandbox. however if we would have gates ingame it would be no problem to remove safe zones because safe zones are player created and protected then which fits much more into a sandbox

Honestly you are correct if this resource was not in a safezone and attainable in some other way other than one person having the ability to have all of it and say yes or no to who can use all of it I would have no problem. Currently the way it works one tribe or maybe even one person does have it and no one else can unless they say so.
03-23-2011, 08:35 AM
ac1dtrip

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackzilla

Aww poor baby, learn to interact with people and they may let you farm some... or do you feel you shouldnt have to answer to anyone? Take what you will attitude perhaps?

Also try to imagine a real post apoc situation, there will be little military dictatoship style of rule all over, there will be monopolies, just get over it... this game is playing out and feels real post apoc to me...

I'd have no proble joining this guild gaining ranks and figuring out a way to get the tar or trading if I really wanted to. I'm not doing this for my own agenda I'm doing this as I see it a potential problem in the future and possibly making people leave as they realize they have little options except to be dictated. Also a military dictatorship is all fine and dandy but there will always be refugees to that and at this point refugees have no ammo no arms and no legs to walk to the fight.
03-23-2011, 08:37 AM
orious13

Simply on a scale of 1 to 10 (highest).... this "mechanic problem" is a 1.
03-23-2011, 08:38 AM
ac1dtrip

Quote:

Originally Posted by orious13

Simply on a scale of 1 to 10 (highest).... this "mechanic problem" is a 1.

Now it might be later on it might be an eleventy (top shot refrence)
03-23-2011, 08:38 AM
blackzilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by orious13

Simply on a scale of 1 to 10 (highest).... this "mechanic problem" is a 1.

Spoken like a true post-apoc survivor...
03-23-2011, 09:00 AM
TheDevil

Posting in thread about my homestead.

Yeah my homestead is the best in the game, but everyone else had equal opportunity to place there.

Get over it.
03-23-2011, 10:02 AM
jokhul

If a single homestead is controlling a rare resource, you can bet that homesteader is going to be in for a VERY hard time, lol

Unless that homesteader is open to very reasonable trade terms... :D
03-23-2011, 10:05 AM
wolfmoonstrike

Quote:

Originally Posted by jokhul

If a single homestead is controlling a rare resource, you can bet that homesteader is going to be in for a VERY hard time, lol

Unless that homesteader is open to very reasonable trade terms... :D

No see what you do there is hire body guards that would be willing to work for your tar lol.
03-23-2011, 10:58 AM
coca

come to 699 500 650...

I'll beat some tar right out of you.
03-23-2011, 11:07 AM
jumpshot

Not being able to Encroach is kinda borked no matter what.

That's fine if it has alignment hits, or you are vulnerable to attack, or whatever... but you should have the option harvest/scavenge whatever.
03-23-2011, 11:23 AM
Kajones

The issue right now is the way safe zones are being implemented. I believe this is a temporary situation until gates are in game. I don't think the OP is asking for tar to be widely available. I think he is asking for it to be obtainable. As in go over and raid the homestead on the tar, and if he and his forces are bad enough to take some, then they can get the spoils of war! Isn't that part of what rare resources and PvP TvT are all about? And that would be damned fun too!

The problem is, that player/tribe security (safezones) are not in a final implementation state. And also from what Thedevil and others are saying, Tar isn't harvestable at the moment anyway. That's fine for now (if true), but once it, or any rare resource, is harvestable - players should be able to have the choice of either negotiating a deal, or trying to take it by force.

Until those things are fixed, I think this discussion is good food for thought on how, and in what order to implement things, and the ramifications of trying to open up one aspect when other, relevant aspects that are affected by it are still borked. Really, it seems like Beta stage stuff.... but if this is Prelude, then so be it. I just hope to see it all implemented as quickly as possible. 2.5 - 6 months of just building up and not having a legitimate combat system in place sound pretty dreadful. Especially if we get into a point where we are paying a monthly fee.

My 2cp.

Kaj
03-23-2011, 11:55 AM
Phazaar

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevil

Posting in thread about my homestead.

Yeah my homestead is the best in the game, but everyone else had equal opportunity to place there.

Get over it.

Noone cares that your homestead is there. The actual problem, if only the OP would open his eyes, is that no one can kill you in it. Once that's fixed, you're going to realise it's the worst homestead in the game :)
03-23-2011, 12:01 PM
cod3r_

Once safezones are down this is exactly what is all about territory control..

own the tar pit and people will come at you.. you'll have to build a big enough tribe to be able to protect your resources and on top of that you can be the #1 tar dealer in the world.

game is influenced heavily by this theory.. Just gota get those safezones up and the tar pit will go under tribal rule.. some will buy some will go to war to take it..
03-23-2011, 12:23 PM
JCatano

Quote:

Originally Posted by cod3r_

Once safezones are down this is exactly what is all about territory control..

own the tar pit and people will come at you.. you'll have to build a big enough tribe to be able to protect your resources and on top of that you can be the #1 tar dealer in the world.

game is influenced heavily by this theory.. Just gota get those safezones up and the tar pit will go under tribal rule.. some will buy some will go to war to take it..

Yeah... Only if the tar pit owner agrees to go to war. Good one, Jordi.
03-23-2011, 12:25 PM
jumpshot

The only real questions that needs to be addressed from this entire thread, imo, is:

Can tar be harvested, period?

Can tar be harvested while encroaching?

A no to either means it's broke, a yes to both means its fine.
03-23-2011, 12:28 PM
ac1dtrip

Quote:

Originally Posted by jumpshot

The only real questions that needs to be addressed from this entire thread, imo, is:

Can tar be harvested, period?

Can tar be harvested while encroaching?

A no to either means it's broke, a yes to both means its fine.

I know for a fact it cannot be harvested while encroaching.
03-23-2011, 12:39 PM
cod3r_

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCatano

Yeah... Only if the tar pit owner agrees to go to war. Good one, Jordi.

wait what!?!?! you can refuse to let someone war you and take your things?!!??/? that is beyond broke.. you sure about this?
03-23-2011, 12:49 PM
JCatano

Quote:

Originally Posted by cod3r_

wait what!?!?! you can refuse to let someone war you and take your things?!!??/? that is beyond broke.. you sure about this?

"What I imagine is:
- Tribes choosing to become warring on non-warring, not as an on / off switch but as a permanent or difficult to reverse decision, likely based on tribal actions.
- Warring tribes would be able to conquer and raid others, but they will also become susceptible to war. Non warring tribes would keep their area safe, but don’t gain the ability to raid or conquer other tribes.
- Both warring and non-warring tribes could claim resources that would be up for contest by both types of tribes.
- Some expansion zones being open to more conquest without safe zones, while in others tribes would retain the choice to war or not."

---

The guy has lost it.
03-23-2011, 01:36 PM
Dirt

i know where there's some tar, no pole. do you guys think i should stick my pole in it?
03-23-2011, 02:50 PM
blake378

i also know a location with tar and no pole just because its the only location you know of doesnt mean its the only location with it.
03-23-2011, 03:10 PM
Dirt

it doesnt?
03-23-2011, 03:58 PM
Aethaeryn

Yeah i thought that was all the tar there was until I found another spot. . with a lot more. Not in a tribal areas either. Covered with snow now though. . It is heavy stuff.
03-23-2011, 03:59 PM
Andius

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCatano

"What I imagine is:
- Tribes choosing to become warring on non-warring, not as an on / off switch but as a permanent or difficult to reverse decision, likely based on tribal actions.
- Warring tribes would be able to conquer and raid others, but they will also become susceptible to war. Non warring tribes would keep their area safe, but don’t gain the ability to raid or conquer other tribes.
- Both warring and non-warring tribes could claim resources that would be up for contest by both types of tribes.
- Some expansion zones being open to more conquest without safe zones, while in others tribes would retain the choice to war or not."

---

The guy has lost it.

If this is the case, monopoly items like tar need to be removed from areas where tribes have an option whether to go to war or not, and all monopoly resources should be put into the more volatile expansion zones. Its like EVE. You want the high rewards, you live in the dangerous areas, you want low rewards, you live in the safe areas.

Also I have no problem with tribes being able to take control of rare resources as long as they have the ability to lose control of those resources through war. But if is the case it shouldn't be "There is only tar, and there is only one location for tar in the entire game." It should be "There is tar, there is sulfur, there is saltpeter, there is gold, there is gems, there is coal, there is oil and there is 1-5 locations for each of them spread over the entire map."

Also I would encourage allowing tribes to put down more than one totem, but they have to choose which members effect which totem radius (With a minimum of 10 player for a main totem and 5 for each additional totem or something similar so you don't get 20 man tribes with 20 one man homesteads). For instance a 20 man tribe wants control of a gold deposit, and a salt peter deposit, that are some distance away. They can split into two ten man tribes and put up a totem at each location. This will give them control of both deposits but it will also split their forces, with both bases being open to attack. Also having control of two valuable spawns makes other tribes resent them more, and may lead to an alliance against them. Greater risk, greater gains.

If this is how things work, then both areas where you can "choose whether or not to go to war." and monopoly resources both sit fine with me. It will be like a strategy game on a grand scale out in the more dangerous territories, and it will be like a little safe happyland where players can get introduced to the game instead of thrown to the wolves living in the outer territories in the starter areas.
03-23-2011, 04:09 PM
Rhodes

I don't see the problem.

Hopi is no where near tar, yet we have over 500 units in our bins from a few members spending an hour collecting it.
It was in an open area with no totems, that we had to swim half way across the lake to get at.

If you're worried about a tribe securing all the tar locations, then act before they can and hoard up on some.
I can assure you there is still plenty of free tar that is not in safe zones.
03-23-2011, 04:17 PM
chaosegg

NEWSFLASH

Tar can be found in multiple locations around the world.
Look harder.

Thread concluded.

End of line.
03-23-2011, 05:15 PM
Hultay

I dont see a problem .. they were first .. they have it, they can sell it. Like it is f.ex. in EvE with moon-goo.
03-23-2011, 05:21 PM
Dirt

but i thought only i knew where the tar was.
03-23-2011, 08:37 PM
Tandarie

Ive seen tar in other places besides the top of that island