Catering to solo players and a bit of a rant......

I know there has been a bit of talk about the game being friendly or unfriendly to solo players and very small tribes. I would like to share my 2cents worth..........

I would most probably be playing this game solo or with 2 or 3 other tribe members at most. This poses a few problems. I played Darkfall for over a year and what drove me from there was a couple of things.

1. Getting gang raped by large groups continuously left me unable to play for hours on end whilst my area of the map was being smashed. I work long hours and only get ingame for an hour here and there, so when i do play, i want to be able to spend some quality time doing the things i find enjoyable ingame.

2. Not being able to be competitive due to macroers and elite gamers smashing my ass every time i cross their path.

3. Not being able to terraform, claim my own land and build things when and where i wanted to, yet the elite gamers could have a house of their own.

So.... Xsyon seems to confront a portion of these problems but also, with it comes a new set of problems.

The degenerating skill points system and not being able to be a master of everything in this game is a good idea. It creates balance and no one true build that will beat all others. This is a real good thing.

Being able to claim land even as a solo player is awesome. Being able to make stuff on my own land is awesome. But, here is the problem...................

In Darkfall, it really sucked to spend a pile of time making some awesome armour or weapons etc and then go out hunting and lose it all in 2 minutes to a group of griefers. Yes, i get the whole pvp thing and i love the excitement and tension of risk vs reward that Df offered. I would love to enjoy that here also. But in DF holdings were fought for, won and lost, but they were not designed and constructed by players - they were essentially pre-made. They did not require many hours of building, terraforming, gathering resourses etc. If you lose a holding in DF it really sucks, but it is just another pre-generated load of pixels and you go out and get another one.

There is no point subscribing to this game if you do not want to claim some land and make some sort of personal space within it. That is THE big thing thing this game offers that is unique. The sandbox is why i am here. Now, if i want to be a solo player in Xsyon, what is the point of going to all the effort of building some really cool stuff, if a small group of griefers can defeat my one-player tribe (which of course would inevitably happen) and then become the new owners of all that i made.

Many people left DF due to being griefed, and griefers are everywhere. They will surely be here in Xsyon and they will be looking for an easy victory. The loss to a griefer tribe will be soooooooooooo much more full on in this game.

So, what i want to know is this...........

As a solo player will i be able to claim some land and build on it, knowing that it cannot be taken away in a heartbeat. If i cannot, then what is the point of me playing. i would forever be building and losing, or i would give up on owning land and building, at which point i would surely leave the game.

What i pose is one of two things........

A. Small tribes of say under 5 members being exempt from having their land conquered - the trade off being that they do not get the option to conquer other lands and they can only occupy a smaller territory.

B. Each tribe can claim a main piece of land (like a capitol city) which cannot ever be conquered. When certain conditions are met (examples might be a certain amount of tribe members or a certain amount of buildings constructed) they can then claim another (secondary) piece of land. These secondary territories are up for grabs and can be fought for and fully conquered.

Either of these 2 options present a fair and balanced way for wars to be part of the game without destroying the game for those that will not be viable or do not want to take part in the war systems.

I hope this is seriously looked at and addressed soon, as i really want to be here in this game, and i want the game to suceed. We need a "best of both worlds" option to embrace all the play styles that peoples lives allow them.

Dont make this game become another Darkfall. You are really creating something unique here and i am loving it. Really loving it!

Keep up the good work!

Stinkfist

I can't remember where I read it but Jooky has said that the tribe cannot ever be conquered, It's your expansion land claims that will be what can be conquered. After prelude your tribe will be able to be attacked. But what they will be able to do I have no idea.

It's also going to be hard for full looting, Because of the weight restrictions.

well.....this game was designed with "tribess" in mind...meaning a group of players. The solo benefits were added to satisfy the loner types., which is ok...to a point.

I just hope that some guy doesnt come along solo ...claim land...do whatever , then quit after awhile, or not log in for ages, and yet his spot is always reserved for him, at the expense of restricting choices of new or more active players.

I was under the impression that after prelude, which would be like 6 plus months after launch....even tribe lands would be unsafe, unless you can protect you and yours...ie...open PvP. I also was under the impression tribal areas could be conquered...but now not so sure.

@Deacon
Maybe we can get a ruling on this one, Hey Jooky can tribal areas be conquered? or just the expansion land claims?

Thanks

I remember Jooky or Virtus stating at some point, that totems will be able to be captured by an enemy tribe, so you will need to protect your totem. The early stages (first few months) of Prelude will have tribe areas safe from PvP attacks to allow tribes to build up their defenses, after what I thought was 3 or 4 mths, tribe areas will no longer be safe.

I would hate to see eternal safe zones like the OP suggests, all this becomes then are immunity boxes which people will go and hide in, and will never be able to be attacked. Ive played a game where guildhalls were immunity boxes from PvP, and it is an extremely bad scenario. This game is afterall supposed to be open PvP, that doesnt mean little immunity boxes where people can go and hide.

Though it's supposed to be open PvP, it's not focused on PvP and wasn't meant to be, unless I'm wrong. Not everyone has time to play all day. We do have to work some time and if I have an hour to play and want to craft something or just hang out with my tribe, I don't want to be interupted by someone on killingspree. I can accept the risk of being killed outside of safe zone. I know it's hard to belive but some people don't like PvP(I'm not a crafter either just prefer PvE).

If I'm right evil tribes don't have safe zones so you can always choose evil and let people raid your tribe.

Second thing, about capturing totem, I don't know how would that be acomplished. You couldn't just go into tribe and capture it without a fight, which is possible with worldwide community. So how would you guarantee a fair fight? To set up a battle? What would be winning conditions?

Unless we'll be able to set up traps, fortifications and some kind of AI defence systems main tribe lands shouldn't be able to be captured.

I don't mind open PvP but without any restrictions it'll kill the game, in my opinion. It'll turn into one big gankfest and that I don't want to see.

Capturing totems obviously wont be in until the conquest and sieging mechanics are implemented, we'll have to wait and see how Jooky designs this I suppose.

Regardless of when or how conquest and siege mechanics are implemented, no amount of safe zone will safe you from potentially being killed while PvE'ing, unless you plan to kill nothing but rabbits around your totem. This game is designed as open PvP, so I think a few people will be disappointed when they get killed.

If we end up stuck with safety boxes, like huts or whatever, which I hope we dont, but if we do, and Im outside and you dont come out to defend your hut, I should be able to start knocking it down around you.

But just because its open PvP, doesnt mean you will be ganked every time you log in. I think the objective would be to make friends, not enemies. Diplomacy is your friend.

Don't carry what you can't afford to lose. It's always been the premise of open PvP full loot games.

Yeah, he has confirmed with me via email that conquering tribal lands will be in game, but he did not specify any of the game mechanics that would determine how this is going to happen. He has ideas, but no real blue print at the moment.

Regardless, I have problems with this post.

Skill degradation is a miss conception. I don't know where you people are getting this information from, or who is spreading what around, but this is NOT in game. What is in game is STAT decay, stat decay and skill decay are not the same thing. Skill decay would be like if you didn't terraform for a week and it went down 5-10 points as a result. Stat decay means that none of your skills will decay, but your stats that are affected by your skills (Strength, Agility, Fortitude etc) will decrease over time if you do not use skills that those specific stats effect. So yes, you can master every skill in the game, however, you need to constantly work them and balance what you work in order to maintain high stats. Having high combat skills means nothing if your agility is sitting at 30.

Now that this is out of the way...

Regarding other players killing you constantly, this is going to happen. I really dislike it when people complain about being ganked in a full loot sandbox, when they buy the game knowing its a full loot sandbox. If you don't spend time on the game, don't expect to beat any of the hardcores who spend 30+ hours a week grinding the hell out of it. In conjunction with that point, if your a solo player and your a casual player, expect to get gang ganked, as to be honest your a perfect target. Being a casual player ensures you're skills are going to be mediocre in comparison to hardcores, being solo or in a group of 2-3 assures that you will have the same mediocre skill set up and will not be able to have anyone to help defend you against hardcore players.

If you have trouble with loosing your gear and find that it ruins the game for you, clearly a sandbox game is not right for you. This is one of the aspects that make sandbox games fun, knowing that anywhere outside of your tribal lands you can loose everything on you. It creates a sense of anticipation and thrill, and gets your adrenaline flowing.

The bottom line is this, if you can't handle full loot, getting fried by hardcore players in PvP and having larger guilds dominating the game, I really hate it when people say it, but to quote half of the sandbox players I know, "Go back to WoW".

By pre-ordering I agreed to open PvP and full loot. I like combat system here and probaly won't run away from any fight, but still I would like to have a place where I can hang out uniterupted when I don't feel like fighting. You still have "friendly" fights inside tribes and aliances, tribal wars in the future and open PvP outside of tribal area.
I think it's plenty for now. Allowing open PvP in tribal areas would only benefit PK'ing and I don't like that. Safe zone should be only in towns, claimed areas should be open to PvP.

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Originally Posted by yoori

By pre-ordering I agreed to open PvP and full loot. I like combat system here and probaly won't run away from any fight, but still I would like to have a place where I can hang out uniterupted when I don't feel like fighting. You still have "friendly" fights inside tribes and aliances, tribal wars in the future and open PvP outside of tribal area.
I think it's plenty for now. Allowing open PvP in tribal areas would only benefit PK'ing and I don't like that. Safe zone should be only in towns, claimed areas should be open to PvP.

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I think what you are looking for will be available, but not till after the Prelude, the amount of players that will join in 2-4 weeks time will be alot, and people will be struggling to get a place to set up camp, that is far away from each other, but close enough to each resource.

But having said that... so far everytime i do a bit of hunting, i've never bumped into anyone else, nor have i once been ganked yet! :D

finger crossed

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Regarding other players killing you constantly, this is going to happen. I really dislike it when people complain about being ganked in a full loot sandbox, when they buy the game knowing its a full loot sandbox.

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Jooky stated several times that he won't allow ganking in this game. It will probably happen here and there but won't be allowed as a gaming style. I can search for several quotes from him if you like.

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Originally Posted by Jadzia

Jooky stated several times that he won't allow ganking in this game. I will probably happen here and there but won't be allowed as a gaming style. I can search for several quotes from him if you like.

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As long as that can be enforced, I think it would be fine. The problem is that people always find loopholes around any kind of implementation. Sooner or later someone will get griefed through an exploit of some kind. Full looting of someone's corpse seem like an extremely bad idea for me. I hated it in Ultima Online and I hated even the partial looting in Asheron's Call. Losing hours of work to someone who spends less than a few minutes of effort on killing you is going to drive a lot of people away from this game.

From what I've heard, at least for now, fully looted can be only evil player(PK'er for example). Your gear will decay anyway and you'll have to relace/repiar it (not sure about repairing) so that's not that much of a loss.

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Originally Posted by Jadzia

Jooky stated several times that he won't allow ganking in this game. It will probably happen here and there but won't be allowed as a gaming style. I can search for several quotes from him if you like.

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You can get all the quotations you want, a tribal warfare system is being put in. That we know for a fact, and I've received conformation about that by Jordi. With tribal warfare, comes ganking. It's unavoidable, if you have open PvP, you have ganking. That's the bottom line. There no way you can have open PvP in a game and not have ganking being involved in it, and if you have a way to do that, please, enlighten us.

How do you figure having a tribal warfare system without ganking in it? You run too far out of your tribal lands, someone doesn't like you, you get killed and looted. It's a part of war and if war is a part of this game, then I don't see the logic of how it won't be included. What will probably happen, and what should happen, is having severe penalties for people ganking in the terms of becoming an outcast. This has been put in most games in the form of people turning "red" and having others being able to attack them with no penalties.

There is already tribal barriers where people can't attack you, I don't understand what more of a mechanic you need to stop someone from ganking you. If someone is killing you outside of your tribal land, why don't you just get a large group of your tribe mates and swarm them ...? Power in numbers?

It boils my blood when people say things along the lines of "What if I am hunting and someone kills me when I'm out there alone with all of the stuff I've gathered!" Well, a question I would like to ask is why were you out in the wilderness hunting alone encumbered in the first place? Or, why were you running outside of your tribal lands with all of your precious gear on you in the first place? It's completely ridiculous, just think about what gear your carrying and play smart, then there would be no problems in the first place.

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Originally Posted by MoonDragn

As long as that can be enforced, I think it would be fine. The problem is that people always find loopholes around any kind of implementation. Sooner or later someone will get griefed through an exploit of some kind. Full looting of someone's corpse seem like an extremely bad idea for me. I hated it in Ultima Online and I hated even the partial looting in Asheron's Call. Losing hours of work to someone who spends less than a few minutes of effort on killing you is going to drive a lot of people away from this game.

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I hate forced PvP myself. I've been on these forums for a year now and have seen that the devs are really dedicated to stop ganking/griefing in game. They said that if the current penalty system won't work well they will change it till they get the proper balance.

About looting...I haven't seen any really rare resource in the game. Stuffs can be crafted easily, so loosing them isn't such a big issue, and Xsyon isn't a gear based game. If a Pker kills me he can have my grass armor, lol.

Still I would love to see PvP zones in Xsyon instead of open PvP, but it probably won't happen. But since I can flee from any attack in the game, open PvP doesn't bother me much.

Tribal warfare is something different it's somewhat civilized. You agree to disagree and want to kill eachother.

The other thing is when a group of people starts killing me just for the fun of it and keep chasing me/killing me when I "res" myself. "Resing" at totem doesn't help if it took me an hour to get to a point where I was killed exploring/hunting or whatever I was doing.
Nothing like that happend to me and I hope it won't.

The problem is that you can't expect internet/MMO community to be "civilized", open PvP is fun becouse it gives you thrill of danger, abusing open PvP is a gamebreaker for me.

How can you abuse open PvP? It's not like people can camp you.

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Originally Posted by Gamefreak

Skill degradation is a miss conception. I don't know where you people are getting this information from, or who is spreading what around, but this is NOT in game.

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FAQ:

Statistics increase or decrease based on actions, experience injuries and age.
Skill based system. Skills increase and decrease based on actions and experience.

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Needs to be updated if the plan is no longer relevant (or further explained). And if it isn't... There better be a hard cap.

I said nothing like that ever happened to me in Xyson, so I wouldn't know, and I hope you can't.
I'm pertty sure I'll be able to run away from any one I don't want to fight with and be prepared to fight when I need to.
I just don't like killing for the sole purpose of killing and I hope people like that will be in minority.

@ Gamefreak:
I think we don't mean the same thing when we say ganking. Ganking for me means when a group of players kill a solo one, and they do that regularly. Tribal warfare is a totally different question.

And how can we avoid ganking in an open PvP game ? Just as it is implemented in Xsyon, where with a proper build and running skill I can runaway from attacks if I'm not overweighted. And I have no problem with looting...if a PKer can catch me out there and can kill me, yes he can have my grass armor. Or my pretty skirt. Lol. Seriously, I haven't seen any gear in the game yet that I would be worried to lose. When I'm out of tribe zone I only wear gear for fashion purpose, stuffs I can craft again in 5 minutes. Actually I don't even see any real reason for PKing right now, the gain isn't worth the risk and the penalty. Actually I hope it will change, a game needs valuable stuffs.

You asked about a tribal warfare without ganking. Imagine a warfare system based on mutual agreement. There you go. Perhaps there will be ganking in it, but with players who agreed to be ganked. I'm not saying it will be like that in Xsyon, only saying that its possible. Or a warfare system where every tribe who want to attack others have to flag itself for warfare, and this way can be attacked by any other tribes. So tribes who want to attack another tribe have to make themselves vulnerable. Actually it works like flagged PvP, not with single players but tribes.

I know tribal warfare will be implemented. But its conditions wasn't announced. I think Jordi hasn't made up his mind yet thats why he doesn't tell.

I'm going to go ahead and skip ahead about 2 pages. I feel it's fine since most of you seem to have never read the Features page.

http://www.xsyon.com/features

There it is by the way, check it out it'll answer most of your concerns/questions.

Also most of this has been talked about in previous threads, use the search function instead of opening another thread next time.

I've read features some time ago and liked it. But seriously I have to agree every single thread seems to go the same way as the previous one.

"1. Ganking
It is a word commonly used in online video games, usualy used in an MMORPG. Ganking is the process in which a group of charecters gang up on one or more players that do not have a chance to defend themselves, Or when one high level player does the same action to a player way below his or her own level."

As for PvP zones, all I can say is... BOOOOOO!!!!

I have one suggestion for those that dont want to be ganked, watch your back and stay sharp, cos it is inevitable, it will happen. I also have a suggestion for those that want safe places to chill out, build your defenses well, cos once the safe zones are dropped a few months in, youll want some big walls around you.

Ok, so i can see some people are getting my thread a bit confused. Im all for open pvp. If i am in my own territory, somebody elses or in open lands i agree that there should be open pvp whether i am a solo tribe or whatever else. What i am talking about is................

as a solo player if i build a pile of stuff i cannot defend it from being taken away if there is full, open ended totem conquest. I would like to see the game mechanics take this into account and in some way make provisions for me to build solo without losing everything every time a tribe of 2 players take on my one person territory.

I am not talking about pvp no-go zones. I am talking about not being able to conquer the meagre territory of a solo player. That in itself is just lame imho and will exclude me from this game. If i feel that way, then there will be a whole pile of people that will feel the same - it is just basic mathematics.

If i decide to go solo, that is my choice, and my territory should be open to attack, just like everyone elses. But is it really going to hurt the game if solo players are able to own a small territory and not lose it to tribal warfare?

If you want any game to succeed it should cater to ALL playstyles. So i am wanting this game to cater to solo players in the understanding that solo gameplay will need a different set of rules to tribal gameplay.

If everyone wants one set of rules for all, then it probably means im out of here for good.

This is not a carebear attitude. It is an attitude that relates to the fact that i will not be a hardcore player. I have a very hectic worklife. I would be playing the game less than 8hrs a week, but i would be paying the same amount of money as everyone else - therefore i would want something for my money.

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Originally Posted by mrwooj

Ok, so i can see some people are getting my thread a bit confused. Im all for open pvp. If i am in my own territory, somebody elses or in open lands i agree that there should be open pvp whether i am a solo tribe or whatever else. What i am talking about is................

as a solo player if i build a pile of stuff i cannot defend it from being taken away if there is full, open ended totem conquest. I would like to see the game mechanics take this into account and in some way make provisions for me to build solo without losing everything every time a tribe of 2 players take on my one person territory.

I am not talking about pvp no-go zones. I am talking about not being able to conquer the meagre territory of a solo player. That in itself is just lame imho and will exclude me from this game. If i feel that way, then there will be a whole pile of people that will feel the same - it is just basic mathematics.

If i decide to go solo, that is my choice, and my territory should be open to attack, just like everyone elses. But is it really going to hurt the game if solo players are able to own a small territory and not lose it to tribal warfare?

If you want any game to succeed it should cater to ALL playstyles. So i am wanting this game to cater to solo players in the understanding that solo gameplay will need a different set of rules to tribal gameplay.

If everyone wants one set of rules for all, then it probably means im out of here for good.

This is not a carebear attitude. It is an attitude that relates to the fact that i will not be a hardcore player. I have a very hectic worklife. I would be playing the game less than 8hrs a week, but i would be paying the same amount of money as everyone else - therefore i would want something for my money.

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Well said Mrwooj, I feel exactly the same, as I also have a fulltime job and a family. I am also just asking for a way for a solo payer to have a comfortable stay in the game.

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Montezuma

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Originally Posted by mrwooj

Ok, so i can see some people are getting my thread a bit confused. Im all for open pvp. If i am in my own territory, somebody elses or in open lands i agree that there should be open pvp whether i am a solo tribe or whatever else. What i am talking about is................

as a solo player if i build a pile of stuff i cannot defend it from being taken away if there is full, open ended totem conquest. I would like to see the game mechanics take this into account and in some way make provisions for me to build solo without losing everything every time a tribe of 2 players take on my one person territory.

I am not talking about pvp no-go zones. I am talking about not being able to conquer the meagre territory of a solo player. That in itself is just lame imho and will exclude me from this game. If i feel that way, then there will be a whole pile of people that will feel the same - it is just basic mathematics.

If i decide to go solo, that is my choice, and my territory should be open to attack, just like everyone elses. But is it really going to hurt the game if solo players are able to own a small territory and not lose it to tribal warfare?

If you want any game to succeed it should cater to ALL playstyles. So i am wanting this game to cater to solo players in the understanding that solo gameplay will need a different set of rules to tribal gameplay.

If everyone wants one set of rules for all, then it probably means im out of here for good.

This is not a carebear attitude. It is an attitude that relates to the fact that i will not be a hardcore player. I have a very hectic worklife. I would be playing the game less than 8hrs a week, but i would be paying the same amount of money as everyone else - therefore i would want something for my money.

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I understand where you are coming from but you're not understanding the implications of what you're asking for. If solo players were able to take territory and never lose it then why ever make a tribe? What's to stop people from making a ton of small single player zones and taking up all the good spots? Also why should solo players have it any easier than the rest? I personally don't see a way to make solo tribes invulnerable without making it completely unfair to everyone else. Maybe if you were on an island in the middle of the lake and couldn't claim land anywhere else. But even that would be stupid.

If a larger tribe comes along and wants that tar pit you built your land on then they should be able to take it by force. If you don't want to lose it then make friends and have them help you defend.

On a side note why would anyone ever want to go solo in a game like this? The whole point is to be in a tribe and do tribe warfare and tribe stuff. What's so special about being alone? Just antisocial or don't wanna do anything with the tribe? If you joined the right tribe you could have all the benefits of a tribe and not have to do anything too inconvinient for the tribe. I guess I just don't get it.

I wonder, why players who wants single playing, buying MMORPG games. All MMORPG based on players, social, community, guilds, partyes, uniting - or suck. Is it hard to understand?

Solo tribes are for people who want it hard. If you're a casual solo player join a tribe, it not a guild. For me tribes are like small countries with tribe leadership as government.

Hopi is casual family friendly tribe with basicly no hardcore players, if there's enough land everyone one will get some to build their home. You choose if you want to play solo or sign up to work for tribe. Tribe gives you protection and place to buy/sell your goods or get quests.

Some tribes will grow big in numbers and have guilds inside (there's already guild chat in game).

So solo players don't be afraid to join a tribe it doesn't hurt.

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Originally Posted by Shrimps

I understand where you are coming from but you're not understanding the implications of what you're asking for. If solo players were able to take territory and never lose it then why ever make a tribe? What's to stop people from making a ton of small single player zones and taking up all the good spots? Also why should solo players have it any easier than the rest? I personally don't see a way to make solo tribes invulnerable without making it completely unfair to everyone else. Maybe if you were on an island in the middle of the lake and couldn't claim land anywhere else. But even that would be stupid.

If a larger tribe comes along and wants that tar pit you built your land on then they should be able to take it by force. If you don't want to lose it then make friends and have them help you defend.

On a side note why would anyone ever want to go solo in a game like this? The whole point is to be in a tribe and do tribe warfare and tribe stuff. What's so special about being alone? Just antisocial or don't wanna do anything with the tribe? If you joined the right tribe you could have all the benefits of a tribe and not have to do anything too inconvinient for the tribe. I guess I just don't get it.

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So you are telling me that there isnt a way to resolve my issues and yours? You obviously have not thought hard about this, and how these different playstyles can be implemented in a way that does not interfere with tribal warfare and land ownership issues. I can see some simple solutions to your issues. Here goes..........


If solo players were able to take territory and never lose it then why ever make a tribe?
- the answer is simple. Because my playstyle will not allow me to be competitive in tribal warfare, yet i still want to embrace pvp as a soloist and i want to own some land and build things, making my own mark on my own piece of ground.


What's to stop people from making a ton of small single player zones and taking up all the good spots?
- a simple set of rules for tribes under say 5 members that excludes them from owning adjacent lands to other small tribes perhaps.
- certain zones being unavaliable to smaller tribes.
- only certain areas being available for smaller tribes to drop a totem.
- all these options fix your problem. Im sure there are many more options too. It took me all of 30 seconds to come up with these.


Also why should solo players have it any easier than the rest?
- i dont want it easier than you, i just want to play the game. I want my land to be a pvp zone - you can zerg me all day long and i wont cry for some nutcupping. I dont want prime realestate. I want to make some buildings just like you, but my keep wont be finished in a week like your tribe's. Mine will take a few months and will still be much smaller than yours. But you want to propose that i can lose it all to any 2man tribe. Sounds like you have it easier than me actually. All i would be is a free gift to your tribe. Wow, i really will have it easier than you.


I personally don't see a way to make solo tribes invulnerable without making it completely unfair to everyone else.
- Well it looks like you have basically dismissed any options for my type of gameplay style without thinking it through. I am proposing some easy solutions to your concerns and it took me all of a few minutes. It also looks like you dont understand what i am asking for as well. I do not want to be invulnerable. I want to be attacked and im sure i will be easy game. I do not want a pvp-free piece of land. I enjoy the tension that open loot pvp offers and i am very familiar with it, having played Darkfall since the game went ptp.


Maybe if you were on an island in the middle of the lake and couldn't claim land anywhere else. But even that would be stupid.
-It might be stupid to you, with your one-track mind and shallowly thought out oppinions, but an area that is put aside for solo players to drop totems might be a good solution. You almost admit it yourself in your post.


If a larger tribe comes along and wants that tar pit you built your land on then they should be able to take it by force. If you don't want to lose it then make friends and have them help you defend.
- so dont let me claim land that is prime realestate - problem solved. As a one-man tribe do you really think i would want to place myself right in the middle of a hotspot?
- do you think a Tribe leader that has all of 8hrs a week ingame will get a set of friends to join my tribe? Do you really think that at 8hrs a week i would be able to be ingame when my totem is attacked? You are also presuming that i want to be part of a bigger tribe, and you are wrong. My lifestyle and personality does not make me want to be in a tribe with decent numbers and that is my prerogative.


On a side note why would anyone ever want to go solo in a game like this? The whole point is to be in a tribe and do tribe warfare and tribe stuff.
- so now you think you have the right to tell me how i should think and act ingame? Maybe you would prefer everyone to be exactly like you? Lets all be cookiecutters? I will live my life and play my games on my terms thank you very much? if those terms arent met then i will happily move to a game where they are, but i do want this game to offer me a playstyle that works for me.


If you joined the right tribe you could have all the benefits of a tribe and not have to do anything too inconvinient for the tribe.
- not true. will i be able to shape the land the way i want? Will i be able to design and make my own structures the way i want? NO.


I guess I just don't get it.
- Yes, you are finally right!!!! Yay for you!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Del137

I wonder, why players who wants single playing, buying MMORPG games. All MMORPG based on players, social, community, guilds, partyes, uniting - or suck. Is it hard to understand?

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I guess you find MY way hard to understand. I have played many MMOs. Most fully guilded but that was before i worked 11.5hour days and had young twins. Now i do not have time for any of that. I do not want single playing and have never said that i do. You should learn to read and comprehend what people have written - i want to be a solo PVPer who gets to own a bit of land like everyone else. Do you think solo PVPers play single player games? That is called PVE. Use some brain cells and stop being so shallowminded towards a gamestyle that isnt the same as yours. Now if you cater to my playstyle as well as yours, then you have a bigger community, more people to pvp and a more stable game by way of having more subscribers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yoori

Solo tribes are for people who want it hard. If you're a casual solo player join a tribe, it not a guild. For me tribes are like small countries with tribe leadership as government.

Hopi is casual family friendly tribe with basicly no hardcore players, if there's enough land everyone one will get some to build their home. You choose if you want to play solo or sign up to work for tribe. Tribe gives you protection and place to buy/sell your goods or get quests.

Some tribes will grow big in numbers and have guilds inside (there's already guild chat in game).

So solo players don't be afraid to join a tribe it doesn't hurt.

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And this a great option for many players. Thank you for not telling me how to play the game or judge my gamestyle. I appreciate the offer, but it is not quite what i want from this game.

No one can destroy your buildings but you. We'll have to wait until tribal warfare is introduced to see, if they will be able to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrwooj

I guess you find MY way hard to understand. I have played many MMOs. Most fully guilded but that was before i worked 11.5hour days and had young twins. Now i do not have time for any of that. I do not want single playing and have never said that i do. You should learn to read and comprehend what people have written - i want to be a solo PVPer who gets to own a bit of land like everyone else. Do you think solo PVPers play single player games? That is called PVE. Use some brain cells and stop being so shallowminded towards a gamestyle that isnt the same as yours. Now if you cater to my playstyle as well as yours, then you have a bigger community, more people to pvp and a more stable game by way of having more subscribers.

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I think most of the people here would take what you say more seriously if you didn't go around treating them like shit.

Just an observation.

You're thinking about the short term effects of single player tribes, which is enjoyment for people who like to solo. The long term effects of what your asking for, you need to understand, are probably going to be devastating in terms of their effect on the game. Single player tribes would likely act more as a griefing mechanic when the game releases rather than a preferable feature. Entire tribes would be able to disband and form single player tribes around the tribal area of a 5-10 person tribe, effectively cutting them off from the rest of the world. This is just one example of how single player tribes can damage the games playability. Another example is what happened in one of our testing scenarios. We were able to completely destroy a trash heap by placing a one man tribe on it and clearing the terrain. Within five to ten minutes, what was a large scrap pile, was turned into the Sahara desert.

When you add things to a game, you can't simply think of the short term effects. Every possible mechanic has to be considered, this being in terms of if the player base endorses it, will it act as a griefing mechanic or if it fits the concept of the game. I think what we are seeing here is that the majority of people either think it's a illogical move, it doesn't fit the canon of the game or it acts as a mechanic for people to use to grief others. Personally, I think it fails in all three of those categories.

My main thing about wanting to be soloish ( I say soloish cause it's mainly my wife and I, maybe one or two others come prelude ) Is that none of the larger tribes really have that great of an area, and from what I gather, plan to stick to their spots... Which leaves me in the position of building my own place up, or go live with a group of people that in the long term, wont be able to sustain their high numbers without making it a big hassle for everyone, or simply have to move...

When it comes to the solo tribes, and all the possible ways that a person can use it to grief others, the only rational thing I can see, is to consider griefing punishable.
Leave the people alone that want to play solo or even be a small tribe of 2 - 3 members alone, don't punish them.
Punish the ones that would use this mechanic to grief.

In reality, in terms of using a tribe to clear out a junkpile to grief, even if a tribe requires 5 people, all the players have to do is take 5 members, go make that tribe, clear it out 5x faster then just with a single person, then go on about their business... Another thing, if a tribe requires 5 members, can you make the tribe with 5 members , then 4 of them leave, and it not disband? These are little things to think about, perhaps it's easier said then done when it comes to dissalowing single player tribes to exist, without considering both the legit and illegit players exploiters.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gamefreak

I think most of the people here would take what you say more seriously if you didn't go around treating them like shit.

Just an observation.

You're thinking about the short term effects of single player tribes, which is enjoyment for people who like to solo. The long term effects of what your asking for, you need to understand, are probably going to be devastating in terms of their effect on the game. Single player tribes would likely act more as a griefing mechanic when the game releases rather than a preferable feature. Entire tribes would be able to disband and form single player tribes around the tribal area of a 5-10 person tribe, effectively cutting them off from the rest of the world. This is just one example of how single player tribes can damage the games playability. Another example is what happened in one of our testing scenarios. We were able to completely destroy a trash heap by placing a one man tribe on it and clearing the terrain. Within five to ten minutes, what was a large scrap pile, was turned into the Sahara desert.

When you add things to a game, you can't simply think of the short term effects. Every possible mechanic has to be considered, this being in terms of if the player base endorses it, will it act as a griefing mechanic or if it fits the concept of the game. I think what we are seeing here is that the majority of people either think it's a illogical move, it doesn't fit the canon of the game or it acts as a mechanic for people to use to grief others. Personally, I think it fails in all three of those categories.

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Once again Gamefreak, there are ways to combat the problems you mention whilst still allowing for solo tribes. Go and read some of my earlier posts which adress this. Incase you do not want to, i will reiterate some ideas for you.
- only solo tribal lands in designated areas
- only a limited amount of solo tribal lands within a given radius

And what about beating the crap out of your neighbours if they decide to lay waste to your nearby resourses?

Demolishing land resourses can be done by anyone, anywhere. It doesnt require a solo tribe to do this. The easy solution is that these land resourses regenerate over time. This has been mentioned before in the development section.

Also, if people i reply to feel they were treated like shit by me, then they can speak for themselves. You are not big Daddy here. I do not need people telling me that my gameplay style is lame, i should get some friends and play with them, MMOs are only for people that do not wish to play mostly solo etc. But i certainly don't feel i have been victimised or treated like shit by people and i most certainly wouldn't want you speaking on my behalf if i was.

I am merely wanting my playstyle to be taken into account and allowed for. Instead of being all negative towards this, how about you help work out a solution for all of us. After all, that is what i am wanting here. Do you really think that i would hate a griefing mechanism any less than you?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Meziahn

My main thing about wanting to be soloish ( I say soloish cause it's mainly my wife and I, maybe one or two others come prelude ) Is that none of the larger tribes really have that great of an area, and from what I gather, plan to stick to their spots... Which leaves me in the position of building my own place up, or go live with a group of people that in the long term, wont be able to sustain their high numbers without making it a big hassle for everyone, or simply have to move...

When it comes to the solo tribes, and all the possible ways that a person can use it to grief others, the only rational thing I can see, is to consider griefing punishable.
Leave the people alone that want to play solo or even be a small tribe of 2 - 3 members alone, don't punish them.
Punish the ones that would use this mechanic to grief.

In reality, in terms of using a tribe to clear out a junkpile to grief, even if a tribe requires 5 people, all the players have to do is take 5 members, go make that tribe, clear it out 5x faster then just with a single person, then go on about their business... Another thing, if a tribe requires 5 members, can you make the tribe with 5 members , then 4 of them leave, and it not disband? These are little things to think about, perhaps it's easier said then done when it comes to dissalowing single player tribes to exist, without considering both the legit and illegit players exploiters.

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Thanks very much for some intelligent input Meziahn. You amke some very valid points in my opinion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yoori

No one can destroy your buildings but you. We'll have to wait until tribal warfare is introduced to see, if they will be able to.

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We all know this - i am speaking into the future of the game.

:p
Can we all just get along
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sONfxPCTU0

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Originally Posted by aliksteel

:p
Can we all just get along

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Not in a full loot pvp game, hehe :-)