NAVIGATION DIFFICULTY

So i've been testing the game for 4-5 days and i think its safe for me to express my biggest dissapointment/fear for the game. It's the lack of orientation...I realise this is a sandbox and no i do not wish for a mini map or a compass.But in real life (sandbox=real life=realism) us humans have the ability to guide ourselves back to a certain place basically by our phortographic memory that stores images of an area that helps us guiding ourselves ,even through wilderness. Xsyon's enviroments unfortunately lack in natural "landmarks'.There is a lake which visually looks the same all around it. All rivers mountain hills etc have the same similar "setting" and placement.
RESULT: i get often lost. I keep losing track of my own totem if i walk a bit too far. The worst of all is that constantly feel dissoriented(especially in wood areas). I turn my avatar around a bit and i need a few seconds to realise where am i heading at. And this happens too often , at least to me.
SUGGESTIONS:
1) Map making Skill that raises the more you travel(walk).Perhaps this skill can give you a map of different detail levels according to your skill level.
2) An empty notepad for us to draw our own map and write our own notes.

p.s. Yes i know there are coordinates but tbh i hate those.They are anti-sandbox and hard to learn or even memorise.

I hope there are some solid plans for navigation , i am really anxious about this.

I agree that we need something to help with navigation, but I disagree with your view of what is and what is not sandbox.

So which way would be "sandbox appropriate" for navigation in this game in your opinion?

To me, a sandbox is a game that gives the players options with the way they "progress" in the game. Not realism, not FFA PvP, just options. So, to make navigation "sandbox appropirate," in my opinion, the devs would give us options with how we want to navigate. This could take the form of them giving us compasses and maps from the get-go, or give us the means to create compasses and maps that have in-game functionality.

having a sun that rises in the east and sets in the west could help navigating, or maybe not with all the mountains in-game. In Roma Victor we never had maps or compasses, we had a sense of direction skill. It was tell us which direction we are facing but at lower levels it wasn't accurate but got more accurate as the skill leveled. Also the ability to make maps in-game would be awesome.

I'd just prefer a map or compass. In real life I almost always know which direction I'm facing, even when inside of buildings.

The coordinates are only there for beta testing so just think how much harder it will be once they're removed. I agree that the terrain is lacking in features that can help with navigation. Just imagine trying to give new tribe recruits written directions on how to get to your village from the local spawn point. What can you tell them that will help? "You'll cross some garbage piles and see 27 waterfalls"?

I hate to constantly refer back to Wurm on these forums but since the comparison is pretty obvious I have to. Anyway, despite Wurm's fairly coarse (an unrealistic -- desert and tundra within walking distance of each other?) terrain structure it definitely has something that enables you to locate yourself fairly quickly based solely on your surroundings. All sorts of natural features play a role in this, from prominent mountain profiles, to distinctive cliff faces, to swaths of specific terrain types (tundra, moss, swamp, steppe, desert), and valleys and passes that players naturally wind up funneling through when the surrounding terrain is impassable. It wasn't impossible for an observant newbie to follow directions on how to cross most of the map (sans compass) to find our village site using nothing more than distinctive landmarks.

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Originally Posted by pupurun

So i've been testing the game for 4-5 days and i think its safe for me to express my biggest dissapointment/fear for the game. It's the lack of orientation...I realise this is a sandbox and no i do not wish for a mini map or a compass.But in real life (sandbox=real life=realism) us humans have the ability to guide ourselves back to a certain place basically by our phortographic memory that stores images of an area that helps us guiding ourselves ,even through wilderness. Xsyon's enviroments unfortunately lack in natural "landmarks'.There is a lake which visually looks the same all around it. All rivers mountain hills etc have the same similar "setting" and placement.
RESULT: i get often lost. I keep losing track of my own totem if i walk a bit too far. The worst of all is that constantly feel dissoriented(especially in wood areas). I turn my avatar around a bit and i need a few seconds to realise where am i heading at. And this happens too often , at least to me.
SUGGESTIONS:
1) Map making Skill that raises the more you travel(walk).Perhaps this skill can give you a map of different detail levels according to your skill level.
2) An empty notepad for us to draw our own map and write our own notes.

p.s. Yes i know there are coordinates but tbh i hate those.They are anti-sandbox and hard to learn or even memorise.

I hope there are some solid plans for navigation , i am really anxious about this.

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yea that happened to me for alil bit but i eventually got the hang of it you get used to the games environment and start seeing different things which u can use to navigate, just takes getting used to ppl. having some system to make maps would be really cool.

and i've been trying to map the stars but once i find something familiar i see something else that looks the same so i've given up on that

A map would be nice but I dislike the idea of having a wasted inventory slot, for a compass or even a map. The coordinates are fine and should remain in the game. However, using the sky is something that I've suggested, it would be both realistic and useful. By the way, your definition of a sandbox game is wrong. A sandbox game doesn't have to include realism. All it has to be is a virtual world where you can freeroam and change the environment. It also has to be a game that has no specific goal.

Players have the ability to create landmarks via terraforming if they really wanted to, there is even screenshots around here somewhere I believe of a sundial. It's easy enough to take a few hours outta the day, or throughout the week, to create a landmark or landmarks that represent where you are at. If anything, I believe a compass should be possible, but no maps in game, you've got out of game maps anyways if it's really a dire need to take a peek. I'm sure as time goes on, player made maps will come into play, that may even mark certain areas, who knows.

I don't see what's so wrong with having a map. Even though I have a good sense of direction, I never leave to go to a new place without looking it up on a map first, and some of my relatives still keep maps in their vehicles. The reasons for having maps in-game are the same reason why it's a good idea to have a map in-real life. If you get lost, you're screwed.

Now, I can understand not having a map that automatically guides you to where you need to go like most games have, but to totally forego an in-game map makes little sense to me. What I think might be cool is that you could have a map and then mark notations on it. Perhaps have it as a discrete object and if it gets too cluttered with notations then you might want to acquire a new one. That's just a thought, but like I said, I think there should be an in-game map of some type or another. Why bother to make it so tedious and have everyone alt-tabbing to look at an online map? Because that is all that's going to happen and people will bitch and moan all over gaming sites about it.

I liked the Roma Victor method of using the sense of direction skill, it was a good solution without junking the game up with crappy maps. We certainly wouldnt want a mini-map in a game like this. Compasses would be my 2nd preference, if it was done Wurm style, and had to be crafted by the players, perhaps a toolcrafter.

Maps I would prefer to see left out of the game, and in the wiki. I could be persuaded by a cartography skill, but only if its done right. Ive yet to see cartography done well in a game.

@Kinslayer:
An ingame map is not the same as a minimap. Think of map as a real map, a piece of paper where you can check the layout of your surrounding. It doesn't show your position, but it gives you opportunity to find your way. Like you cross a river and the game tells you the river's name so you can try to find it on your map and get an information of your location.

In my opinion, a map should be part of the HUD rather than being an actual item. Same goes for the compass. I'm sure overtime we'll have signs that will leads us to the right paths.

Simple way :P
http://uo.stratics.com/php-bin/show_...?content=31331
http://uo.stratics.com/content/skills/cartography.shtml

Maybe remove world map

A very unique feature would be to actually have a map that you could draw on.

@Jadzia, yes I do know the difference, that is why I mentioned the Cartography skill later in my post. Cartography is making maps, so that would be maps our characters would hold, not a mini-map. I say no to any type of mini-map on the GUI.

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Originally Posted by trenixdecease

A very unique feature would be to actually have a map that you could draw on.

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thats what i had in mind...But not a map...Just a plain"paper"(notepad) on which we can draw with our mouse pointer! Of course we should then need WRITING-DRAWING skill and materials as pencils,ink,rubbers etc!! A bit complex i know...

Well i also got another simple suggestion:
The ability to store somehow each totem we visit. Next time we'd like to go there(or near) we can select the specific totem from a list and then have a simple ARROW guide us on the UI.Its simple and helpful and doesnt need detail work either. Plus it will make players memorize each natural landmark depending on which Tribe is near!
Example: "I need to collect some X material.Last time i found many around the Y tribe.Lets go there!"
I think this way Tribes gain fame and power through provincialism.

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Originally Posted by pupurun

thats what i had in mind...But not a map...Just a plain"paper"(notepad) on which we can draw with our mouse pointer! Of course we should then need WRITING-DRAWING skill and materials as pencils,ink,rubbers etc!! A bit complex i know...

Well i also got another simple suggestion:
The ability to store somehow each totem we visit. Next time we'd like to go there(or near) we can select the specific totem from a list and then have a simple ARROW guide us on the UI.Its simple and helpful and doesnt need detail work either. Plus it will make players memorize each natural landmark depending on which Tribe is near!
Example: "I need to collect some X material.Last time i found many around the Y tribe.Lets go there!"
I think this way Tribes gain fame and power through provincialism.

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Please no "simple arrows" to guide us on the UI!

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Originally Posted by pupurun

thats what i had in mind...But not a map...Just a plain"paper"(notepad) on which we can draw with our mouse pointer! Of course we should then need WRITING-DRAWING skill and materials as pencils,ink,rubbers etc!! A bit complex i know...

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The idea of this is that a person can dedicate his time in making a very precise map, maybe even selling his or her information (since I hate the idea of this being an item).