Dear devs, Xsyons resource gathering mechanics

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06-16-2012, 06:42 AM
banden

Dear devs, Xsyons resource gathering mechanics

Ok here we go, this subject hasnt been raised for awhile but since it doesnt even seem to be prioritised by the powers-that-be I think we need to have a discussion about this.

Resource gathering is a cornerstone of any MMORPG, especially for the crafting type that Xsyon is of. So it goes without saying that when it is what a lot of players will be spending 70% of their time in game doing (guesstimate, dont hang me for this) it needs to be well balanced for rewards, time and effort. Xsyons resource gathering mechanics are not even remotely balanced in this manner. It is mostly a progress bar, which would be all well and good if it didnt also take all your attention to do, such a system would only work well if it was automated allowing the player to do other things in the meantime. A progress bar based system that requires your undivided attention is bad for the simple reason that watching a progress bar all the time is not entertaining. It makes the game needlessly tedious. The same could be said for crafting, but those mechanics have actually recieved much needed improvements, gathering is still the same.

Fishing - Stand and click - watch progress bar, bad mechanic.
Foraging - Run and click - watch progress bar, bad mechanic.
Hunting - Prowling for animals and combat, good mechanic! skinning and gutting, stand and click - watch progress bar, bad mechanic.
Logging - tied into forestry, planting and logging with passive growth, good mechanic!
Scavenging - Run and click - watch progress bar, bad mechanic
Forestry - Gathering for seeds is stand and click - watch progress bar, bad mechanic.
Resources - Stand and click - watch progress bar, bad mechanic.

Now we have been given a lot of changes to resource distribution and thats all well and good, but why havent the mechanics themselves been changed? Players have been saying this on the forums since beta and yet this is not even on the priority list. The only arguments that have been raised against changing the mechanics are people saying that changing gathering and crafting towards a more automated system would make it too easy, which is a rather terrible arguement, clicking a button or not clicking a button has nothing to do with difficulty but it is tedium.

So what i propose is this:
- All gathering progress bar time is increased to 2 minutes. During those 2 mins you get a number of tries specific to each gathering profession to bring the gathering rate on par with the current rates. Scavenging and foraging would have 12 tries for example.
- All the run-and-click business is removed and instead accounted for in the gathering rates.
- All grass, waterline, junkpile and rock area has a resource rarity modifier which would be visible to the player, this could be an area of lets say a square of 20m. The value determines what rarity of items you can get from that area. There would be a radius around all totem in which the resource rarity modifier is decreased. When you gather from a square the value decreases, eventually leaving you with the most common items. The value would then replenish over time.

I feel these changes would eliminate a lot of tedius work in this game while also encouraging you to move around the map and seek out better ground.

Discuss.

//Banden
06-18-2012, 10:51 AM
banden

Quote:

Originally Posted by prokop15

I agree with the assessment that the resource gathering systems are boring and extremely important to gameplay, and that fixing them should be a top priority. I'd wager even greater that 70% of a player's time is spent gathering resources, especially in the early stages of the game. However, I expect that this issue is being ignored for a reason, which brings me to my next point.

I disagree with your solution of one long progress bar instead of many small progress bars. Xsyon is not the kind of game where progress bars can replace gameplay. It's not strategic enough, there is very little external risk, and since your character is locked while that progress bar is running, you can't multitask. What you're proposing would remove some of the repetitive actions, but at the cost of making the game even less interactive (although I think it's pretty much bottomed out in that regard, so maybe it's worth it). This change is probably an appropriate short-term solution for the simpler gathering actions, like picking up resources, but it doesn't make sense for scavenging.

Adding in that rarity system would certainly be a step in the right direction. it addresses the actual problem with the resource gathering system -- that it is extremely shallow. It would at least allow for some strategy to be involved since you'd have to hunt out a good resource before pressing the button and going to make yourself a sandwich. Still though, it's not the right solution. Players need to actually be able to find and compete over rare resources, not just a greater chance at getting them in certain spots.

The real solution is to rework the system entirely, and I think that's why it's being ignored. It doesn't make sense that while scavenging for materials you just reach into the pile and pull out some random item after digging around for a short while, nor is it fun, nor is it strategic. Players need to either be able to visually search for the object they're looking for, or there needs to be some sort of prospecting system put in (i.e. you are searching garbage piles for something you want through a UI, not just pulling an item out of a loot table).

Oh I agree with this prokop, it is not a perfect solution, far from it. Its a short term patch-up job, but considering the snail pace of the developement and that a solution to the issue is not even on the horizon, Id say that the community would probably be very happy with a half-assed fix in the near future (months) rather than waiting for a whole-hearted fix years down the line. If you can improve more than 70% of the gameplay by even just the tiniest amount I think that is time well spent. I cant concieve of any consequence of implimenting a half-assed fix that is worse than the consequence of ignoring the problem for another couple of developement cycles. Its too big a part of the game to simply ignore it for that long. A possible fix is as easy as making all actions repeat a number of times and removing the distance you have to run to scavenge again.
06-19-2012, 04:27 AM
blackzilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by banden

Ok here we go, this subject hasnt been raised for awhile but since it doesnt even seem to be prioritised by the powers-that-be I think we need to have a discussion about this.

Resource gathering is a cornerstone of any MMORPG, especially for the crafting type that Xsyon is of. So it goes without saying that when it is what a lot of players will be spending 70% of their time in game doing (guesstimate, dont hang me for this) it needs to be well balanced for rewards, time and effort. Xsyons resource gathering mechanics are not even remotely balanced in this manner. It is mostly a progress bar, which would be all well and good if it didnt also take all your attention to do, such a system would only work well if it was automated allowing the player to do other things in the meantime. A progress bar based system that requires your undivided attention is bad for the simple reason that watching a progress bar all the time is not entertaining. It makes the game needlessly tedious. The same could be said for crafting, but those mechanics have actually recieved much needed improvements, gathering is still the same.

Fishing - Stand and click - watch progress bar, bad mechanic.
Foraging - Run and click - watch progress bar, bad mechanic.
Hunting - Prowling for animals and combat, good mechanic! skinning and gutting, stand and click - watch progress bar, bad mechanic.
Logging - tied into forestry, planting and logging with passive growth, good mechanic!
Scavenging - Run and click - watch progress bar, bad mechanic
Forestry - Gathering for seeds is stand and click - watch progress bar, bad mechanic.
Resources - Stand and click - watch progress bar, bad mechanic.

Now we have been given a lot of changes to resource distribution and thats all well and good, but why havent the mechanics themselves been changed? Players have been saying this on the forums since beta and yet this is not even on the priority list. The only arguments that have been raised against changing the mechanics are people saying that changing gathering and crafting towards a more automated system would make it too easy, which is a rather terrible arguement, clicking a button or not clicking a button has nothing to do with difficulty but it is tedium.

So what i propose is this:
- All gathering progress bar time is increased to 2 minutes. During those 2 mins you get a number of tries specific to each gathering profession to bring the gathering rate on par with the current rates. Scavenging and foraging would have 12 tries for example.
- All the run-and-click business is removed and instead accounted for in the gathering rates.
- All grass, waterline, junkpile and rock area has a resource rarity modifier which would be visible to the player, this could be an area of lets say a square of 20m. The value determines what rarity of items you can get from that area. There would be a radius around all totem in which the resource rarity modifier is decreased. When you gather from a square the value decreases, eventually leaving you with the most common items. The value would then replenish over time.

I feel these changes would eliminate a lot of tedius work in this game while also encouraging you to move around the map and seek out better ground.

Discuss.

//Banden

Silly changes in my opinion and time can be spent elsewhere bettering the game.
06-19-2012, 08:31 AM
banden

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackzilla

Silly changes in my opinion and time can be spent elsewhere bettering the game.

Pointless reply in my opinion and post could have been spent stating why you think that.