Tribal Warfare - Vassalation

I understand that Tribal Warfare is ways away, but I had an interesting idea that maybe the developers might consider.

Everyone knows that tribal warfare will eventually be implemented, but it isn't really known how it will be implemented. I thought of an interesting idea that maybe the community can comment on.

Instead of directly conquering land or tribal space, how about if you defeat the other tribe either by destroying their HQ or however it will be, they become your vassal. The winning tribe gains access to all of the losing tribes resources and stockpiles and the loser only has access to himself. The loser also loses all diplomatic ability, like declaring war or forming alliances (however this will be), and may have to pay tax to the overlord. The losing side can however attempt to gain independence (maybe a time-limit of 2 weeks?) and if the losing side wins they regain sovereignty. If the winning side wins again however, the losing side is completely abolished and their land is made free. Everything that belonged to the tribe can be claimed by the winning side.

But say the side that is a vassal doesn't want independence because of the possibility of being destroyed? Well the vassal can remain a vassal as long as he wants, basically forming an allegiance with his overlord. The overlord can release the vassal at anytime though.

What do you think of this idea? :cool:

I acually like it. There's a lot of possibilities for political plays.

It sounds like tribal warfare.

It's a delicate thing to put in, especially when not thought through. Ok so a massive tribe goes on a rampage and just vassalizes every tribe in 2 units. All the tribes (from your example) lose all their resources. Next a lot 5 man tribes are crushed and the members pissed off losing everything.

Maybe they are resilient and instead of paying the vassal tax they start a new tribe. They work hard for a week and get attacked again only to lose everything again.

Many players will quit, others wil only join huge tribes, now the server is split to 2 or 3 zerg tribes. How fun. Not.

Shadowbane zergs sucked, as did Darkfakl 3-4 super alliances. Eve's system works but only because they have a safe zone (empire) which is large enough to live in (though a small area compared to 0.0 but 85%+ of the pop live in it).

I am hoping the devs look at tribal warfare very carefully and learn from the mistakes/lack-of-planning that other games have faced. Them stating that they are patient and going to take their time with it gives me hope.

It sounds like a cool idea, but I really doubt anyone would pay a subscription fee to be someone's slave. I just can't imagine it.

True it all depends on how tribal warfare is implemented 5 men tribe will probably loose to 30 men tribe. We'll have to form aliances to defend ourselves from big tribes.

And in your scenario all the tribes could raise resistance at the same time getting better chance to win.

This whole idea is a valid option if we'll be able to siedge towns and conquer other tribes, if we'll fight only over claimed territories that it has no sense.

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Originally Posted by sionide

It sounds like tribal warfare.

It's a delicate thing to put in, especially when not thought through. Ok so a massive tribe goes on a rampage and just vassalizes every tribe in 2 units. All the tribes (from your example) lose all their resources. Next a lot 5 man tribes are crushed and the members pissed off losing everything.

Maybe they are resilient and instead of paying the vassal tax they start a new tribe. They work hard for a week and get attacked again only to lose everything again.

Many players will quit, others wil only join huge tribes, now the server is split to 2 or 3 zerg tribes. How fun. Not.

Shadowbane zergs sucked, as did Darkfakl 3-4 super alliances. Eve's system works but only because they have a safe zone (empire) which is large enough to live in (though a small area compared to 0.0 but 85%+ of the pop live in it).

I am hoping the devs look at tribal warfare very carefully and learn from the mistakes/lack-of-planning that other games have faced. Them stating that they are patient and going to take their time with it gives me hope.

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This is where in-game politics come into play. Just because you are a vassal does not mean you cannot grow your Tribe in manpower and in resources. Say a tribe does go and vassalize lots of tribes. Well who is going to stop these vassals from rising against the overlord at an opportune time? What happens when this big tribe gets into a huge war with another tribe, and in the middle of the war the vassals unite against the overlord? The overlord cannot "destory" a tribe unless it fails at a rebellion. So that means these disgruntled vassal tribes will keep growing until they possibly outman the bigger tribe, and guess what? Just like Yugoslavia the overlord dissolves into a bunch of new independent tribes because it can't handle the rebellions. In the process, the 'big' tribe will probably collapse and itself be vassalized by another Tribe.

I like the idea. It sounds like a defeated tribe would lose only autonomy and not their lands/progress. A winning tribe gains access to the loser's land but doesn't actually wipe them out. The only thing I don't know about is the time limit on trying to cast off the oppressors. Maybe leave the option open for an unlimited duration so the overlords have to be careful and always watch out for uprisings.

If players really hate being vassals and know they can't defeat the overlords (or can't come to consensus on what to do) they can individually leave their tribe and quietly slink away to start again somewhere more remote. It allows the losers a choice in their own fate even if none of the options are ideal.

Definitely something to discuss and consider. :)

Well TBH that will already be in place once tribal warfare is in. There is no need to put a system in place, because that is what an open pvp that's a sandbox will give you.

Look at BoB in Eve and their pets. There was no system in place to allow what they did except for the freedom that is Eve. They were big and strong and rented out part of their space to other alliances and corps. Since it was their rented land they would defend it like their own.

Trust me many interesting and political things will happen when tribal warfare is in place; however, the isn't ready for it and might kill the game before it has a chance. That was my point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sionide

Well TBH that will already be in place once tribal warfare is in. There is no need to put a system in place, because that is what an open pvp that's a sandbox will give you.

Look at BoB in Eve and their pets. There was no system in place to allow what they did except for the freedom that is Eve. They were big and strong and rented out part of their space to other alliances and corps. Since it was their rented land they would defend it like their own.

Trust me many interesting and political things will happen when tribal warfare is in place; however, the isn't ready for it and might kill the game before it has a chance. That was my point.

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Thats true I can't wait to see what will happen once warfare is in, but we have to establish economy first.

Re-reading my post I have a lot of spelling and grammar mistakes. It's hard writing from a phone.