prevent totem dropping on owned carts
issueid=2687 05-25-2020 11:50 AM
Static
prevent totem dropping on owned carts

Carts becoming abandoned after x amount of time, so there is already a feature in place to claim carts from other players if they are not in use.

So letting someone drop a totem on your cart, so they can build a box around it and prevent you from getting your cart before it becomes abandoned, so they can steal it off you, seems like a exploit more than legitimate gameplay.

My suggestion is that if a cart is active, that you cannot build anything in the tribe till the cart is removed.

If its abandoned you should be able to claim it, than drop a totem.

But if its still active, this opens up for levels of grief and abuse that shouldn't be in the game in my opinion by letting players totem drop carts and cage them.

I'm all for a raiding system, but this is not a raiding system, this is someone holding onto your carts inside of a protected tribe zone till they expire two weeks later, this is not fun gameplay and is exploiting the totem drop on alt accounts.

The two ways I can think of moving a cart off tribe area:

1) let the tribe leader move it ~ keep it locked on panel menu cuz it will be equipped ~ auto drop it 5m outside of tribe so they cant take off with it and take it to another tribe.

2) auto pushing, the game shoves the cart to the edge +5m away from the tribe area.

This has been edited and updated with a refined suggestion to avoid confusion of multiple suggestions.
Issue Details
Issue Number 2687
Issue Type Feature
Project Suggestions
Category Unknown
Status Rejected
Priority 1 - Highest
Suggested Version Unknown
Implemented Version (none)
Votes for this feature 0
Votes against this feature 1
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




06-02-2020 01:50 AM
Visitor
Again if this is intended gameplay, thats fine and great.

But that the guides should NOT be interfering and returning players carts.

But if its NOT intended gameplay than the mechanics should be changed so the guides do not need to interfere.

I donno how much more simple I can make this for you since you don't seem to be cluing into why I'm even making this suggesting; trying to change mechanics to remove the NEED for guide interfering; players should be working this out themselves not begging guides to take care of it.

06-02-2020 01:56 AM
Visitor
"game breaking systems"

I addressed your "blocking totem" problem by saying "no building till the cart is moved off land"

Offering multiple suggestions on how to move the cart off land, either shoving or forcing tribe leader to move it with auto drop at 5m so it can't be taken away.

I honestly have "no idea" what your talking about in this comment since the only thing you've brought up is carts being abused to block areas, that I have addressed by changing the suggesting to alow totem dropping, but prevent building till the cart is moved to prevent these types of totem drop n cage cart situations.

This isn't the first time I've heard of this, why pretend like its a "rare and extreme case" when its not and would only increase in likelyhood of happening as more players join the game.

"har har nobody plays the game so it doesnt happen often"

So what happens when you get a hundred or a thousand players on? You get ALOT more inactive carts and alot more people thining "oh hey I can just drop a totem and cage it" like sark did cuz its "a part of the game" and thus "must be a intended form of gameplay if your able to do it"

Again you seem to be clueless to what the problem is if you think "just ask a guide" is the solution, again we're trying to eliminate the NEED for a guide, so "just keeping it the way it is, simple enough" is NOT solving the problem, again its only offering a solution to the effect, not the cause.

06-02-2020 09:46 AM
Xsyon Citizen
Your suggestion would cause carts to stop building. Thus you could grief someone, and causing a guide to have to move it.

I didn't say it takes a ton of work to drop a totem. I said
Then drop a totem to "claim" the cart is really not even that bad. They have to put a ton of work into it. (Killing the player then building, using an alt to totem lock it, all while preventing the killed player from getting it back, then having to hold on to that spot for 2 weeks)
You don't need to kill people to get your cart. I've played PVP longer than anyone. I've done it 1000s of times.
If they kill you, while you are trying to get your cart back, tough luck. Use better armor, get stronger, learn to play better. That's what PVP is about.

I'm not saying that this current system is perfect. I'm saying it's better than the system you are suggesting. Because your system is more likely to cause someone to be griefed. While the current system is unlikely to happen. Also if it does happen you can fix it for the very limited times it does.

There is a reason the timer for carts on someone's land is able to be accessed faster. It's exactly the reason I'm saying not to change it to that. We used to have the system cost to what you are talking about, it caused major issues. Thus it was changed. You are asking to revert it back to a system that is worse and EVERYONE asked for the change.

06-08-2020 11:20 AM
Visitor
"Your suggestion would cause carts to stop building. Thus you could grief someone, and causing a guide to have to move it."

No that is NOT what I'm suggesting AT ALL.

With respect I dislike how your twisting around what I'm saying to support your point of view.

How can you grief someone if the cart needs to be move before hand? It gets auto moved or they have access to move it?

Don't respond to me if you can't read man, I feel like your hijacking my post at this point cuz I'm spending more time responding to you derailing than actually staying on subject.

The current system is not better than what I'm suggesting cuz it allows for people to totem drop carts, that is the whole point of this suggestion, is that someone can't build a cage around a cart in order to prevent a player from accessing it, FORCING THEM TO CONTACT A GUIDE to get it back, this is NOT legitimate gameplay and should NOT be a supported way to play the damn game despite you thinking it should be.

06-08-2020 11:25 AM
Visitor
"You don't need to kill people to get your cart. I've played PVP longer than anyone. I've done it 1000s of times.
If they kill you, while you are trying to get your cart back, tough luck. Use better armor, get stronger, learn to play better. That's what PVP is about."

How is this responding to someone caging your cart?

Again your strawmanning the argument here, I've never said anything your suggesting, I donno what your even talking about cuz it has nothing to do with what I'm talking about, how does pvp have anything to do with someone caging a cart with totem dropping and forcing you to contact a guide outside of game about it? This isn't a gameplay feature to contact a guide, I donno why you don't seem to understand this.

"I'm not saying that this current system is perfect. I'm saying it's better than the system you are suggesting. Because your system is more likely to cause someone to be griefed. While the current system is unlikely to happen. Also if it does happen you can fix it for the very limited times it does."

Nobody is getting griefed in this system, I have NO IDEA what your talking about.

I have ALREADY SAID that the carts should be AUTO MOVED OR FORCE MOVED IN SOME WAY.

If the cart is moved, how does it grief the player? IT CANNOT GRIEF THEM IF ITS MOVED.

Again, your complaining about "what if you place a cart and they cant drop a totem" and my response is "obviously we need some sort of function to move the carts out of the tribe area than"

I've conceeded the fact that you can drop a totem on a cart, sure, but I think it needs to be changed so that you cannot build while that cart is there till its moved and I think FEATURES SHOULD BE ADDED TO THE GAME to move the cart, either by letting the tribe leader move it off tribe lands OR have it auto shoved off tribe lands, BOTH solutions would remove your "griefing" issue, yet your still going off about it and I donno why.

06-08-2020 11:30 AM
Visitor
"There is a reason the timer for carts on someone's land is able to be accessed faster. It's exactly the reason I'm saying not to change it to that. We used to have the system cost to what you are talking about, it caused major issues. Thus it was changed. You are asking to revert it back to a system that is worse and EVERYONE asked for the change."

I remember the older system. I'm not a newb, stop speaking to me as if I wasn't there and didn't see it with my own two eyes.

NOTHING I am suggesting would revert things back.

I am NOT suggesting to remove the abandoned on carts, I'm saying SINCE WE ALREADY HAVE THAT FEATURE IN PLACE, that we SHOULD NOT have a 2ndary feature of stealing carts by totem dropping and building walls around it, by stealing a cart using this exploit that was ADDED TO THE GAME when the abandoned feature was added (meaning a new feature created this expolit)

Are you not following?

Abaondoned carts timer added to game.

This is what added this exploit, not this bullshit your talking about.

Yes the carts got changed to prevent abuse, but in that change it added another form of abuse; totem dropping carts and taking the cart in a DIFFERENT way than was CHOSEN to be put into the game, again the CHOSEN way to take someones cart is to wait two weeks for it to be abandoned and claim it... It was NEVER a INTENDED FEATURE to have people totem drop carts and than cage them till the abandoned point of 2 weeks.

I mean isn't this half the reason why tribe leaders cannot access peoples carts on their tribe lands anymore?

I know dang used to totem drop peoples carts and unload the cart cuz tribe leader could access the carts, carts where changed to prevent this kind of abuse BUT ITS STILL HAPPENING.

06-08-2020 01:22 PM
Xsyon Citizen
My suggestion is that if a cart is active, that you cannot build anything in the tribe till the cart is removed.

This is a quote from your suggestion.

This is the part I disagree with. Am I getting it wrong that you do not want this in your suggestion?

No idea why you are cursing.
Or saying I can't read. I read just fine.

06-08-2020 04:58 PM
Visitor
Quote Originally Posted by MrDDT
This is a quote from your suggestion.

This is the part I disagree with. Am I getting it wrong that you do not want this in your suggestion?

No idea why you are cursing.
Or saying I can't read. I read just fine.
Correct, your not understanding me at all.

Cuz you take ONE sentence and think thats the entire point out of context...

Context matters, your aware of this right? Words taken of of context can mean WILDLY different things to different people depending on how its used.

This is the problem I'm having with you, you don't seem to understand the context or the overall picture, you just see the one sentence and have a "gotcha" moment where nothing else I say matters and all other details of what I said don't matter cuz you've ignored them all.

You've repeatedly said this would add new levels of abuse/grief when that is 100% not true and I have REPEATEDLY addressed your concerns to the point where I got fed up trying to explain things to you cuz your just simply not getting it.

Quote Originally Posted by MrDDT
Your suggestion would cause carts to stop building. Thus you could grief someone, and causing a guide to have to move it.
Quote Originally Posted by tetu
Again, your complaining about "what if you place a cart and they cant drop a totem" and my response is "obviously we need some sort of function to move the carts out of the tribe area than"

I've conceeded the fact that you can drop a totem on a cart, sure, but I think it needs to be changed so that you cannot build while that cart is there till its moved and I think FEATURES SHOULD BE ADDED TO THE GAME to move the cart, either by letting the tribe leader move it off tribe lands OR have it auto shoved off tribe lands, BOTH solutions would remove your "griefing" issue, yet your still going off about it and I donno why.
Why keep posting about griefing someone if I've already address it Multiple times?

With my suggestion there is ZERO WAY TO DO WHAT YOUR CLAIMING.

Again, if a feature is created to push the cart out of the tribe zone, how is anyone prevented from building if they are only prevented from building UNTILL SUCH A POINT IN TIME WHERE THE CART IS NO LONGER THERE.

This means that once the cart is removed, either by auto shove or the TRIBE LEADER MOVING IT than they would be able to build and thus; remove your entire issue that you think could happen... yet when I repeatedly say this, you don't read it and respond as if I never said it... this is why I'm getting upset with you.

06-08-2020 05:04 PM
Visitor
I understand you think the game is perfectly fine the way it is, but I honestly think alot of things need to change if we're going to progress this into a game that thousands of people play.

The status quo needs to change, things need to change and honestly if we got someone like you trying to shutdown any changes than I may as well stop trying and move onto some other game cuz I honestly don't have the energy to both think of ways to make the game better AND argue with you repeatedly about it trying to convince you that the game needs to change in order to become better.

06-08-2020 05:09 PM
Xsyon Citizen
I'm not ignoring it. I'm disagreeing with you. My opinion and still is that using your system it would allow people to grief people building in tribes.

Example

A)
I'm building in my tribe. You bring your cart over stopping me from building. I have to stop what I'm doing, move the cart off tribe lands, then you attack and kill me.

B)
I'm building in my tribe. You bring your cart over stopping me from building. I would have to stop what I'm doing, move the cart off tribe lands. Then you grab the cart. Move it back into there. Stopping me from building again repeat.

Now make this 10 griefs vs me. It makes it much harder and impossible to even play the game.

I'm sorry, you think I don't understand stuff, I do. Just don't confuse not understanding, with disagreeing.

06-08-2020 05:12 PM
Visitor
Seems fairly obvious to me that I was purely talking about carts that exist before the totem gets dropped.

Seems fairly obvious to me that someone walking up to your tribe and dropping their cart wouldn't trigger this cuz your not dropping a totem on their cart.

Both situations A and B would NEVER happen, again I feel like your trying your hardest to derail this legitimate suggestion that would prevent legitimate exploits/abuse/grief that would be widespread if we had thousands of players in the game, there would be hundreds of carts out there, hundreds of chances for someone to use this exploit purely to steal a cart, hundreds of guide reports for one guide?

Its not sustainable to depend on a guide as a "game feature" instead of changing the game or adding features to prevent the need for them.

You seem to be missing the entire point; removing the requirement of a guide needing to interfere in player interactions due to lack of game mechanics for them to sort it out themselves.

06-08-2020 05:14 PM
Xsyon Citizen
Quote Originally Posted by Static
Seems fairly obvious to me that I was purely talking about carts that exist before the totem gets dropped.

Seems fairly obvious to me that someone walking up to your tribe and dropping their cart wouldn't trigger this cuz your not dropping a totem on their cart.

Both situations A and B would NEVER happen, again I feel like your trying your hardest to derail this legitimate suggestion that would prevent legitimate exploits/abuse/grief that would be widespread if we had thousands of players in the game, there would be hundreds of carts out there, hundreds of chances for someone to use this exploit purely to steal a cart, hundreds of guide reports for one guide?

Its not sustainable to depend on a guide as a "game feature" instead of changing the game or adding features to prevent the need for them.

You seem to be missing the entire point; removing the requirement of a guide needing to interfere in player interactions due to lack of game mechanics for them to sort it out themselves.

So you want this to only apply to carts that are there before a totem was there?



A) and B) would happen a lot more than someone dropping a totem and building a base around it to stop someone from getting it before that someone came back for the cart.

06-08-2020 05:17 PM
Visitor
"So you want this to only apply to carts that are there before a totem was there?"

The topic is called "prevent totem dropping on owned carts"

Of course thats the whole point............

your two bullshit suggestions would NEVER happen cuz this is purely to prevent people TOTEM DROPPING CARTS.

There is ALREADY a feature in place to prevent tribe leaders from accessing players carts, why would we need more limits on carts in a tribe, why would we intact your suggestion of letting someone walk into a tribe and block with their cart? Thats STUPID and NOT what I'm suggesting.

06-08-2020 05:19 PM
Visitor
You've been playing for ten years, is this how you act whenever someone trys to better the game? Cause them so much grief that they don't want to offer suggestions anymore?

No wonder this game is dying when folks like you are trying to keep it that way and fuck with anyone trying to fix or change it.

06-08-2020 05:30 PM
Xsyon Citizen
So the confusion part is you say you cannot build until the cart is moved.

This applies also outside of totem dropping.
I was making it clear that you ONLY want this to apply at totem drop. Once a totem is there, any carts put onto the tribe lands you are cool with?

06-08-2020 05:37 PM
Visitor
Quote Originally Posted by MrDDT
So the confusion part is you say you cannot build until the cart is moved.

This applies also outside of totem dropping.
I was making it clear that you ONLY want this to apply at totem drop. Once a totem is there, any carts put onto the tribe lands you are cool with?
Yes of course...... The goal is to prevent people from totem dropping ontop of player owned carts and using this exploit to keep carts away from players till they become abandon.....

Not sure why your so confused about this.

06-08-2020 05:41 PM
Xsyon Citizen
Quote Originally Posted by Static
Yes of course...... The goal is to prevent people from totem dropping ontop of player owned carts and using this exploit to keep carts away from players till they become abandon.....

Not sure why your so confused about this.

Well if this does not apply to carts that are placed onto tribe lands after the tribe is already there. Then either option is fine. With leader able to move it or it pushes it off.

However, I do not think it's a value in coding this as it is likely never an issue. Also you can get around it still. Simply place tribes around the cart (so the cart is not on tribe lands) and block it up. Takes more effort and more accounts, but still can be done.


I would rather just simply say, those are the spoils of war, and/or if you leave a cart out in the wild, expect that it is not safe.

06-08-2020 05:48 PM
Visitor
If you leave your cart out for 2 weeks, I agree, spoils of war, fair game, its a INTENDED feature of the game.

However, totem dropping peoples carts is NOT a intended feature of the game, to such a point where the game has been changed multiple times to prevent this kind of griefing.

Tribe leaders used to be able to use tribe athority to open carts, so totem dropping a cart was a quick and easy way to steal everything inside of it, "dang" used to do this, thats either you or someone from your tribe, I'm not sure tbh.

The reality is that totem and cart interations have already been changed to prevent griefing around carts, this seems like the next natural step to prevent cart abuse since caging peoples carts with a totem drop is NOT a intended feature.

Yeah sure I guess you could use 4 accounts to cage someones cart like that, but the amount of time invested into that would be alot more than what is currently possible by totem dropping with ONE account, maybe it wouldn't fully prevent it, but it would heavily reduce peoples ability to actually do it since most people dont have 4 alts or the time to run 4 players somewhere to cage a cart.

If you have a BETTER IDEA that is not "give up and leave it how it is" I'm all ears, but I'm not hearing anything helpful from you, just simply repeating that you disagree despite not being able to come up with anything better.

If this is the best idea, I honestly don't care if you agree or not when your not able to come up with a better suggestion.

If my suggestion is so trash, what do YOU think could be changed to prevent this from happening?

Cuz if we ACTUALLY make this game better to the point where thousands of people want to play, your going to have hundreds of situations like this so ALL situations need something coded in, a mechanic added so that the problem no longer exists, or else as the players increase, so will your problems.

06-08-2020 05:49 PM
Visitor
Again there is ONE guide, expecting the ONE guide to solve everything instead of changing game features so the mechanics of the game takes care of it so the guides don't need to, is just simply foolish, you can't expect one guide to cover all this, so the game needs to be changed so it no longer requires the guides in as many situations as possible.

So telling me "just ask a guide to get your cart back" doesn't solve the problem of preventing the need for a guide by having gameplay mechanics that cover the problem.

06-08-2020 06:08 PM
Xsyon Citizen
Quote Originally Posted by Static
If you leave your cart out for 2 weeks, I agree, spoils of war, fair game, its a INTENDED feature of the game.
Well, my opinion is that it's much faster. Xsyon is a harsh world. Your stuff outside your tribe is not very safe. Leaving it for hours, in my book you left it unsafe for too long.

Quote Originally Posted by Static
However, totem dropping peoples carts is NOT a intended feature of the game, to such a point where the game has been changed multiple times to prevent this kind of griefing.
Fully agree.



Quote Originally Posted by Static
Yeah sure I guess you could use 4 accounts to cage someones cart like that, but the amount of time invested into that would be alot more than what is currently possible by totem dropping with ONE account, maybe it wouldn't fully prevent it, but it would heavily reduce peoples ability to actually do it since most people dont have 4 alts or the time to run 4 players somewhere to cage a cart.
This is exactly what I think about when you say people will use an alt, to drop a totem, then spend hours to build around a cart. I think it's just 4x harder your way. However, its already pretty hard.

Quote Originally Posted by Static
If you have a BETTER IDEA that is not "give up and leave it how it is" I'm all ears, but I'm not hearing anything helpful from you, just simply repeating that you disagree despite not being able to come up with anything better.
I said above it's fine, but I wouldnt waste the coding time.

Quote Originally Posted by Static
If my suggestion is so trash, what do YOU think could be changed to prevent this from happening?
My suggestion is that it's not broke enough to worry about. This happens so rare, that it's not worth the time to code in for a very limited set of issues. Even if you remove the guide issue. You can put in the fact your cart is not meant to be 100% safe outside tribe area. Which even with your suggestion it would not be.

Quote Originally Posted by Static
Cuz if we ACTUALLY make this game better to the point where thousands of people want to play, your going to have hundreds of situations like this so ALL situations need something coded in, a mechanic added so that the problem no longer exists, or else as the players increase, so will your problems.
I fully agree. If 1000s of people played the game like they did before. 1 guide or even 10 would not be enough to handle all the issues. However, this issue would likely not come up. Even if it did, the guide should say "Sorry, can't help you, your cart is not safe off tribe lands". Which is why they have the "unsafe" tag also.

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