Totems and how they should work.
issueid=1230 09-27-2011 10:07 PM
Visitor
Totems and how they should work.
Totems and how they should work.
First off let me say Im doing this for many reasons.

Ok totems they are everywhere. I have a vision of changing that, and allowing totems to help trade, economy and allow smaller more active tribes to control more area.

First off, I do not like the idea that totems take no resources to put down yet can claim resources. Also I do not like that to grow a totem you need more players even if they are inactive. Ive seen tribes of 100 people with 1 or 2 online controlling huge parts of the zone.

Now how I would vote to change it is this.

Key is to require totems to take resources, and need resources to keep "protecting" the area.

I think when you want to drop a totem it should first place a ghost totem down, this ghost totem would not protect anything, yet it would not allow anyone else to claim a totem in the area until that ghost totem is removed.

Ghost totems will be removed after % of the resources not put in. IE if you drop a 100 man totem it would require say 10000 units of resources. Ghost totems decay say normally in 48hours but if you drop in 500 units in (5%)of the resources it would extend the decay by 5% or 2.5 hours.

After you get all 100% of the resources needed to then you can click the create, and it will drop a real totem based on the one you picked for the ghost. This will last for 1 week. Every week you have to upkeep the totem. (25% of base cost). Which can be put into the totem and the totem eats up over time. You can also use this totem as a bank for storage.

Things used for resources. Bricks, Logs, Sand, rock, metal, cloth etc. Each would have to have a unit assigned to them.

What this does is mostly allows people to build on land based on needs or even expected growth, without them to just want to "zerg" more members in the tribe.

It will promote trade by removing these resources and maybe even hiring labor to help gather these resources.

Also if an area goes inactive, slowly the totem will eat itself. It should lose 10% of its range a week of not being filled on the resource upkeep. After 10 weeks it will disappear.
This will allow a few members to keep the candle going for a large tribe if they wish. Also allows totems in the world to be removed, if tribes just leave them. Also will help prevent people from dropping a totem without knowing what they are doing, it will also help prevent people from having alt accounts with totems just claiming an area for themselves.

Idea? Comments? Complains? etc
This issue is closed. No more replies may be made.
Issue Details
Issue Number 1230
Issue Type Feature
Project Suggestions
Category Unknown
Status Implemented
Priority Unknown
Suggested Version Unknown
Implemented Version (none)
Votes for this feature 34
Votes against this feature 6
Attachments 0
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)


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12-03-2011 06:52 AM
Xsyon Citizen
this idea is good and bad. People will still go inactive in tribes no matter what, So its left on the leader for upkeep and screws him over when manpower doesnt stick around, Its not his fault the game didnt keepem busy, but yet he will end up punished for it. So this kinda system would definitly have to have that in mind.
 

12-03-2011 06:55 AM
Xsyon Citizen
A homestead is 25m radius.

Having ownership of this land as a basic right of subscription versus no subscription is hardly a pay to win feature.
That argument is merely an exxageration to try and make one's point appear more valid than it actually is, and likely an underhanded jab at someone in particular.

Harmful to a productive discussion in the long run, a few minutes of my life I will never get back in the short run.
 

12-03-2011 12:31 PM
Xsyon Citizen
Quote Originally Posted by Book
A homestead is 25m radius.

Having ownership of this land as a basic right of subscription versus no subscription is hardly a pay to win feature.
That argument is merely an exxageration to try and make one's point appear more valid than it actually is, and likely an underhanded jab at someone in particular.

Harmful to a productive discussion in the long run, a few minutes of my life I will never get back in the short run.

No where does it say that subscription gives the right to have a free totem.

You are making that connection because currently it is.

Please leave the personal topics out of here, it will help keep things focused.
 

12-03-2011 03:18 PM
Xsyon Citizen
I am making the suggestion that the connection be put in place. Keep up.
 

12-03-2011 04:27 PM
Xsyon Citizen
lol, book...nice

agreed, its one thing to change a mechanic that has only been talked about and quite another to change somthingthat has been around since befor the launch of the game "somthing like taking away the right to your small 25m plot of land is lame" it's like your trying to make it into player housing form other games...
 

06-21-2012 02:07 PM
Xsyon Citizen
Any word from a dev on if is being looked at still? Clearly many people want this system.
 

06-21-2012 03:58 PM
Xsyon Citizen
The problems I can see with this are:

Resources though they may seem plentiful they really aren't.

1. 2-5 people in a matter of days could deforest and pick the ground clean in a gigantic area around there totem.
2. Tree's grow back but not fast enough with enough resources to matter.
3. Grass / brush / branches , Grass at this point doesnt come back, brush / branches do not either if theres not a mature canopy of trees above the ground.
4. Logs and rocks are to heavy to carry over a long distances.
5. And this is my biggest one, Theres already insane amounts of clicking to do just for everyday tasks, Lets not add 1000's a clicks for things WE HAVE TO DO...

I agree there should be some maintenance fee, ANYONE recall the MMO Shadowbane it had a lot of the same stuff when it came to player built cities..

What this game really needs is a Trade system and a currency http://www.xsyon.com/forum/project.php?issueid=1583
And a way to pay for maintenance that wasnt destroying the landscape, it doesnt recover fast enough.
a. NPC merchants I can sell the 1000's of things I make to level a skill.
b. An auction house
c. Get horses and wagons, set up trade routes between towns. ( this would require a new searchable mapping system, so you could locate tribes aligned the same as you ) and / or if you have found them yourself they are located on your map regardless of alignment.

If your going to have hire-able NPC's to resource gather, then there should be NPC's for a economy... Hire merchants to sell your stuff. I cant think of the game off the top of my head but I remember an MMO that had an Auction house, but you couldn't buy off it, it gave you the location and price of the item being sold and you had to go get it..

I would say if it has to be material cost maintenance then let it be anything player made or harvested. Alot of people make tons and tons of crap trying to level skills, let those items be sacrificed.
You could also have a 60 day period where if noone from said tribe logs in start the removal count down, and have this time visible on the tribe totem...

I know im long winded, but I have been playing a couple weeks now, and can tell you there a steep learning curve because of vast amount of things to do, I wouldnt want to see anything more to make it more laborious to play the game...
 

06-21-2012 04:01 PM
Xsyon Citizen
People Only want this system now because 90% of tribes are blocked in by Dead Totems think long term... Does it make this game fun to play or work....
 

06-21-2012 04:26 PM
Xsyon Citizen
So there is no safe zone with ghost totem and any vet player can attack a noob? this is more like a ganking paradise.
 

06-21-2012 08:07 PM
Xsyon Citizen
@Lordadamar,

2 to 5 people cant clear a "gigantic" area around a totem in a matter of days, even if they could the extra resources they would have would be sooo many. They would have 1000s of bins full of resources. Try doing this and see.
Trees are very very easy to plant and not only do the players trees grow from planting but every tree in the world doubles every spring. Run around the world and you will find piles of logs just about everywhere.
Grass and Branches not growing back is a major issue with or without this system.
Logs and rocks are heavy however, they are in unlimited and easy to get resources. These would likely be the most used resources at first.

You then talk about not adding 1000s of clicks for things you have to do, guess what you are playing a game no matter what there will be clicking. 1000s of clicks from this? I doubt it per person its not even 1000 clicks if you use the #s posted. Which at this day in age I believe is very well on the low side.

Your A,B, C are way off topic but let me just point out the quick major problems with some of them.
A)No one will buy your goods as they all have them already (too many resources not enough demand) I at this time right now throw away Supreme QL armor all the time, why? Because its just wasted space and not used.
B)See A)
C)This is a good idea however, really has nothing to do with the system.

I would say if it has to be material cost maintenance then let it be anything player made or harvested. Alot of people make tons and tons of crap trying to level skills, let those items be sacrificed.
You could also have a 60 day period where if noone from said tribe logs in start the removal count down, and have this time visible on the tribe totem...
This is player made and harvested. Not sure where you get that its not. I agree that the crap could have a value, even better would be remove the crap items you make and change the system big time so you dont have 10000s of worthless items crafted to level up.

2 month grace period? I'm not sure where that fits in and why. Reread the first post. Totems are all over the world causing major problems 60 days each time someone logs in from a totem is pretty long.
Considering its 100% free.

100% free totems are the biggest problems when it comes to greifing.
 

07-20-2012 04:03 PM
Xsyon Citizen
Wish we had this system instead of right clicking on totems.
 

07-21-2012 01:59 PM
Xsyon Citizen
I think this a last ditch grasp for people crying that totems are everywhere and wanting them gone... And the easy fix for most vets is to make it difficult to have and maintain in the first place...

This doesnt solve the problem it creates new ones..

1. Resource depletion
2. Makes it to Difficult for solo players to actually have a homestead
3. Griefing players over resources, as u can log and collect resources right up to tribe borders
4. Almost makes the choice for people to choose a larger tribe
5. It would turn the game into a major grind just to maintain a tribe...

My idea

1. Start with the area we have now, with a somewhat low resource requirement if any.
2. Let the tribe choose a tribe size, that increases in area in 5%-10% increments in each step ( because tribes are no longer a Radius they are square a 5%-10% add to area would be comparable )
3. Do not limit tribe size by member count limit it by what the tribe chooses to maintain. ( this would cause large empty 100 members tribes to slowly decrease in size by a percentage)
4. Make resource maintenance a none laborious task to achieve, what I mean is 1-3 people would find it somewhat easy to maintain a tribe with a 5-10% increase in area.. but the same 1-3 people obviously couldnt maintain a 30-50% increase..
5. The minimum size should always be 25m x 25m and yes a 5%-50% increases in area would be small but it would compound each tick on the scale and cost just a little bit more to maintain.
Example you would have to upgrade a tribe by 5-10% area each time, 25+10%= 27.5 squared. the next upgrade would be 10% bigger than 27.5+10%= 30.25 squared and so on..
Now obviously with how some of the other systems work in rounding this will need to round up to the nearest meter in order for things to work out right...
6. Put monthly quotas on resources most people cant log in every day, weekly quotas would almost cause a mass exodus of people /ragequitting
7. Put monthly degradation on tribe area that cause it to loose 5-10% of it area each time quota isnt met.

I think this would not screw the people maintaining 20 or less member tribes and help decrease the size over time of the giant tribes...

Just my thoughts Fire away DDT
 

07-21-2012 10:00 PM
Xsyon Citizen
1) Resources need to deplete, you dont think so? Almost all resources are unlimited currently (rocks, trees, sand etc)
2) I'm not sure how it makes it difficult, I've already addressed this. If you want to have a small area (solo cant currently have a large area however, in my system they could if they choose too) then the resources you need would be very very low. As would the upkeep.
3) I'm not sure I understand this can you explain? If you mean resources would have a value and players would fight for them more then that's a good thing not a bad. Value on things is better than no value. That's just me I guess.
4) Why would it force people to choose a larger tribe? Larger tribe = more resources to gather.
5) Its all about balance to make it not a grind. Don't forget right now most people delete most of their crafted items. When these items could be used as a token to the totem upkeep instead of being deleted or worse just left in baskets for no reason and never used.

Your Idea is the same as mine. So great.
 

07-22-2012 11:08 AM
Xsyon Citizen
Right now tribes gain size by the amount of members in it acitve or not...

I propose the tribe size system gets re-evaluated to a system where the tribe can choose there size based on a purchase system in tribe menu...

Example was given in my previous post but i guess ill attempt to explain it again.

There would be another menu on the Totem that says " Expand Tribe" with certain info in it.. like...
1. Current size
2. Current maintenance Cost
3. Members that have logged in last 30 days..
---------------------------------------------------------
1. Slider to select amount of space you want to increase by, This could be a percentage like I said above, or meters...
2. Cost for next expansion, It could be set for every 5 meters of expansion has a set resource cost to purchase
3. Maintenance Cost will increase by
-------------------------------------------------------------
Degradation would only effect tribe to the minimum area of 25 meters, not cause the tribe to poof, thats what current system is for...
And only degrade by a set distance like 1-5 meters squared each time maintenance costs are not met...

I believe a system like this allows active tribes to recover from missed quotas and inactive tribes to loose the strangle hold on vast amounts of land..
 

07-22-2012 03:10 PM
Xsyon Citizen
You just said everything that was in the first post.
 

07-24-2012 11:46 AM
Xsyon Citizen
Hope its clear this time for you, just like everyone made clear in game other night tired of hearing you..
 

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