Why can't new guilds and tribes have large lands like older tribes?

I think it should be done with payment in resources. If 1 person is able to upkeep a huge tribe then they should be able to get a huge tribal area. If 100 people can't upkeep a huge tribe area with resources, they shouldn't have a huge tribe area.

That is also a great idea, ANYTHING but members = land as it just encourages people to make alts and there are just not enough players, seems a great idea to give resources for land though with such a grindy aspect to the game a lot of resources are just sitting there anyway this would be a great sink for them.

I don't have a problem with accounts = larger size, I have a problem with accounts being inactive = larger size only.

If you had "ACTIVE" accounts that gave you a boost to tribal area with the other option to also pay resources, that would be the best of both worlds.

I think Xsyon gets some extra money coming in from people that buy a few extra accounts to have a larger area, but this does not help the playstyle of the game but it does help for $ coming in for the game and coding.
What does help the playstyle of the game and the economy of it is the resources side of it. If tribes are motivated by resources, they are more likely to trade higher crafted items for basic resource items that new players can do and feel like they are helping and getting into the economy. Currently the system makes it less likely for new players to be able to help.
To me it's a no brainer, it has always had tons of support from players to have a resource based tribal area system.

Pros:
Rewards active play
Helps economy
Everyone feels like they can have a large tribe
If a tribe quit the land is turned over to public without semi inactive people taking up large areas
You pay for what you want and can plan for it. Currently you can't plan unless you bought the accounts yourself because it could get smaller by people leaving.

Cons:
Hurts the sale of extra accounts only for increased tribe size
People might feel pressure to play more to get resources. So if you are gone on holiday you can't upkeep your tribe.

Fixes to the cons:
Allow both options, resources and "ACTIVE" accounts.
Allow large pools of storage resources to allow people to go inactive for greater time frames.

Having to buy accounts for land on a game that you cant get any new members may as well just add land to a cash shop at that point as thats all it is.

There are several issues in this Suggestion.

1) Tribe renaming - This has been implemented in my current build and will be part of an upcoming patch.

2) Tribe moving - Maybe in the future, but too complicated for now.

3) Renaming Xsyon - I've considered this but it's a huge task that would involve:
- Creating new logos
- Contacting every game site listing Xsyon to update the name and information.

This also doesn't solve the problem with the negative reviews on Steam (mostly older reviews complaining about the subscription). I can change the name on Steam but it doesn't clear out reviews. A full relaunch on Steam would require a new submission through the Greenlight program, which could take more than a year.I also don't think they allow a relaunch of the same game without it being a substantially different game.

4) Tribe land - I agree that a different system could be better. I just don't know exactly what would work best. I think it would require trying out various systems.

- Tribe land increasing over time. If this is INSTEAD of based on members, then I see no reason for players to even form a Tribe and play with others.

- Tribe land grown and maintained by active resources. Again I think this diminishes the reason to form an actual Tribe. The biggest issue I have with this suggestion (and it's been suggested in the past) is that for me, personally, it just doesn't sound fun and doesn't fit with my original vision for Xsyon. If it's an optional solution, maybe it would work.

- I've thought of other potential changes to the system including having each player add a specific plot of land to the Tribe they join (instead of adding to the Tribe size. Any changes are complicated though so for now the system will stay as is until I finish my extensive current todo list.

Why would this diminish reason to form a tribe? 1 large tribe 1 price, if you do not join another group to share the load in paying resources to build your tribe you end up working lots of time just paying upkeep costs for the size you want.

I do agree it make's it harder to make a tribe, but the reward for making it, and up-keeping it is felt better. Currently, you just log on and put a tribe down any which way , no upkeep and no cost to do it. How many alt or new accounts drop a totem and never come back? Make it a quest or a challenge to get into the game, and see what crafting and gathering is about first. This will help people get into the game and prevent exploiting.

Where I do foresee an issue is the current player base will now have to upkeep land by playing. But this causes good parts too, they will then want to trade or recruit people.

Can you please tell me the "reason" you talk about forming a tribe that will be diminished? Currently their are only 2 reasons to form (with others) or join a tribe.
1)You like playing with other people.
2)Help on skill/gathering as a team.

Both of these are not changed with adding a cost to totems, in fact it increases #2 reason, while adding another reason.

The cost was more aimed so that the same work need be done to maintain the totem in a homestead of 1 as it would in a tribe of 20 as it could be per person, to encourage players to be active and at very large sizes hard to maintain without a group of active players,
As a reward - maybe the tribe buff ? each person that completes their quota get to choose their own 5 day buff instead of just 1 for the whole tribe (which is always architect).
As a reason - the players at certain levels in a tribe eg homestead, village, town etc the buff would be bigger/longer/better/diff categorys and for larger tribes that would be trading etc (please oh please ad this anyway) a buff that allows scav of $ to increase ?

Right now more tribe members = more tribe land and this is a primary reason for players (tribe leaders in particular) to recruit new members, growing their tribe.

Here are some of my concerns if tribes are grown and their size is kept up solely by resources:

- Adding members wouldn't increase tribe size, so you wouldn't really need members, you just need resources.

- Active players gathering resources would help, but this relies on new players that actually want to go around gathering and stockpiling resources on a regular basis. Right now, I think only a tiny percent of new players falls into this category. This is a real issue that I need to work on. Xsyon doesn't need to be more of a challenge to get into. It needs to be easier and more enjoyable for players (especially the type of players that are signing up) to get into building and tribal life.

- If a new player joining a tribe doesn't want to work gathering resources or wants to play casually, logging in once a month or so, they add no value (land) to the tribe. Does the tribe leader just boot this player? Would more casual players log in to find themselves without a tribe and with their goods gone?

- If a major change like this was made, what would happen to players that log in from time to time but don't read the forums or emails I send out? Would long term players return to find their tribe lands reduced and efforts dismantled? Would they return in time but not want to become active enough to maintain their land?

- For tribes with massive stockpiles of resources, this does very little (like what the buff system did). For tribes that haven't stockpiled resources this could be game ending.

- I don't see a change like this attracting new players at all.

- I don't see a change like this enticing old players to return. (How many players want to return to gather resources and as a reward they get to have what they already had before, without the 'work'?)

I get the vision of having tribes trading and a solid in game economy. Sadly, we don't have the number of players right now to make that work. The problem isn't just the actual number of players, it's the number of players that actually WANT to trade and build an economy. More players past and present have been looking for a self sufficient solo experience or to be a vendor than to be a buyer.

Right now my plate is full. I'm going to continue with the updates I have in progress. Once they are all done and released I will think about better ways to manage tribe land, but any change is going to be complicated and will need to have options.

Very good points and let's talk about hitting the details of it and why.

"Adding new members..."
Adding new members would not increase the size correct, however, it could if you consider they should be helping out (assuming they are active at all). Adding new members doesn't hurt in any way (either system). So why not add new members that are active and could help out? To me this is a non factor because it doesn't help or hurt (well it could help, and can't hurt)

"Active players gathering.."
I disagree with a tiny amount of people fall into this, in fact I think most people do. I think most people want to join a tribe and feel wanted and help out with the tribe. Not join it and then be told "No you don't have to be xyz crafter or gatherer we got all that, and your skills will be too low to be useful" which is what currently we have. Most of the current tribes are skilled up and really don't have to worry about new players other than helping them to help them. I also feel like by "helping" new players they also push them away with them not feeling like they can be of any use.

"New player joining a tribe..."
Why would you boot a new player? Is there an extra cost in having new players in the tribe that I missed? If they are not playing and don't help out they could choose to boot them if they wanted but there would be no need too other than their own reasons. This would be a problem with a solo player wanting to upkeep a tribe all by themselves that never plays but that's another issue.

"If a major change like this was made..."
Much like other changes you did, make a warning ahead of time. Don't do it overnight say in 1 month we will be starting this, maybe even have a warning on the totem or as a message on log-on or something. Of course sending out emails and forum posts would need to be done.

"For tribes with massive stockpiles..."
Of course tribes with more resources won't have as much of an issue, and if a tribe is active with no resources, simply get the resources. They will have time before the change goes into effect. Also we are not talking about costs that are crazy, it needs to be thought out how much it should cost and how resources should be figured. Remember it's planned on how much a tribe would need if it was starting fresh not an old tribe.

"I don't see a change like this attracting new players at all."
I agree new players will not be drawn in because of it, but they will be greatly affected by it in a good way. Economy will be better, and new players will hold a LOT more value so when they do start tribe will want active people and they will feel the need of the tribe. This is what most people want to be needed by friends and a tribe. Right now we are lacking that greatly.

"I don't see a change like this enticing old players to return..."
I don't see it bringing in old people either to much other than a few that might have had plans to build a large area without the need of a 80+ man tribe. That was a major issue for a lot of people is they were limited to a 25x25m area. Now people can have huge tribe lands if they are active and build wondrous things. I don't know how many times I've been told "you are lucky you have all that land". Because people have ideas but once you get past the basics of the storage buildings little is left for designs of grand massive stuff.

"I get the vision of having tribes trading and a solid in game economy. Sadly, we don't have the number of players right now to make that work. The problem isn't just the actual number of players, it's the number of players that actually WANT to trade and build an economy. More players past and present have been looking for a self sufficient solo experience or to be a vendor than to be a buyer."

Don't forget for every vendor, they are also a buyer. It's forced for them to buy something even if it's resources or $. Give them a reason to want $ and resources. Currently there is little reason for it.

I understand you having a full plate, but this has been asked for with most people backing it for a long long time. It also makes sense in many ways. There are some cons to it, but way more pros. I do agree that you have some plans for other things, I'm just saying don't discount how powerful this idea is, it's a core system to your whole game and it can greatly affect it.

- Tribe land increasing over time. If this is INSTEAD of based on members, then I see no reason for players to even form a Tribe and play with others.

Many do not want to form a tribe or play with others they want to hide out in the forests and mountains and have nothing to do with big tribes except maybe for trading.