Originally Posted by
Xsyon
Right now more tribe members = more tribe land and this is a primary reason for players (tribe leaders in particular) to recruit new members, growing their tribe.
Here are some of my concerns if tribes are grown and their size is kept up solely by resources:
- Adding members wouldn't increase tribe size, so you wouldn't really need members, you just need resources.
- Active players gathering resources would help, but this relies on new players that actually want to go around gathering and stockpiling resources on a regular basis. Right now, I think only a tiny percent of new players falls into this category. This is a real issue that I need to work on. Xsyon doesn't need to be more of a challenge to get into. It needs to be easier and more enjoyable for players (especially the type of players that are signing up) to get into building and tribal life.
- If a new player joining a tribe doesn't want to work gathering resources or wants to play casually, logging in once a month or so, they add no value (land) to the tribe. Does the tribe leader just boot this player? Would more casual players log in to find themselves without a tribe and with their goods gone?
- If a major change like this was made, what would happen to players that log in from time to time but don't read the forums or emails I send out? Would long term players return to find their tribe lands reduced and efforts dismantled? Would they return in time but not want to become active enough to maintain their land?
- For tribes with massive stockpiles of resources, this does very little (like what the buff system did). For tribes that haven't stockpiled resources this could be game ending.
- I don't see a change like this attracting new players at all.
- I don't see a change like this enticing old players to return. (How many players want to return to gather resources and as a reward they get to have what they already had before, without the 'work'?)
I get the vision of having tribes trading and a solid in game economy. Sadly, we don't have the number of players right now to make that work. The problem isn't just the actual number of players, it's the number of players that actually WANT to trade and build an economy. More players past and present have been looking for a self sufficient solo experience or to be a vendor than to be a buyer.
Right now my plate is full. I'm going to continue with the updates I have in progress. Once they are all done and released I will think about better ways to manage tribe land, but any change is going to be complicated and will need to have options.
Very good points and let's talk about hitting the details of it and why.
"Adding new members..."
Adding new members would not increase the size correct, however, it could if you consider they should be helping out (assuming they are active at all). Adding new members doesn't hurt in any way (either system). So why not add new members that are active and could help out? To me this is a non factor because it doesn't help or hurt (well it could help, and can't hurt)
"Active players gathering.."
I disagree with a tiny amount of people fall into this, in fact I think most people do. I think most people want to join a tribe and feel wanted and help out with the tribe. Not join it and then be told "No you don't have to be xyz crafter or gatherer we got all that, and your skills will be too low to be useful" which is what currently we have. Most of the current tribes are skilled up and really don't have to worry about new players other than helping them to help them. I also feel like by "helping" new players they also push them away with them not feeling like they can be of any use.
"New player joining a tribe..."
Why would you boot a new player? Is there an extra cost in having new players in the tribe that I missed? If they are not playing and don't help out they could choose to boot them if they wanted but there would be no need too other than their own reasons. This would be a problem with a solo player wanting to upkeep a tribe all by themselves that never plays but that's another issue.
"If a major change like this was made..."
Much like other changes you did, make a warning ahead of time. Don't do it overnight say in 1 month we will be starting this, maybe even have a warning on the totem or as a message on log-on or something. Of course sending out emails and forum posts would need to be done.
"For tribes with massive stockpiles..."
Of course tribes with more resources won't have as much of an issue, and if a tribe is active with no resources, simply get the resources. They will have time before the change goes into effect. Also we are not talking about costs that are crazy, it needs to be thought out how much it should cost and how resources should be figured. Remember it's planned on how much a tribe would need if it was starting fresh not an old tribe.
"I don't see a change like this attracting new players at all."
I agree new players will not be drawn in because of it, but they will be greatly affected by it in a good way. Economy will be better, and new players will hold a LOT more value so when they do start tribe will want active people and they will feel the need of the tribe. This is what most people want to be needed by friends and a tribe. Right now we are lacking that greatly.
"I don't see a change like this enticing old players to return..."
I don't see it bringing in old people either to much other than a few that might have had plans to build a large area without the need of a 80+ man tribe. That was a major issue for a lot of people is they were limited to a 25x25m area. Now people can have huge tribe lands if they are active and build wondrous things. I don't know how many times I've been told "you are lucky you have all that land". Because people have ideas but once you get past the basics of the storage buildings little is left for designs of grand massive stuff.
"I get the vision of having tribes trading and a solid in game economy. Sadly, we don't have the number of players right now to make that work. The problem isn't just the actual number of players, it's the number of players that actually WANT to trade and build an economy. More players past and present have been looking for a self sufficient solo experience or to be a vendor than to be a buyer."
Don't forget for every vendor, they are also a buyer. It's forced for them to buy something even if it's resources or $. Give them a reason to want $ and resources. Currently there is little reason for it.
I understand you having a full plate, but this has been asked for with most people backing it for a long long time. It also makes sense in many ways. There are some cons to it, but way more pros. I do agree that you have some plans for other things, I'm just saying don't discount how powerful this idea is, it's a core system to your whole game and it can greatly affect it.