War Camps
issueid=2673 03-28-2020 04:11 AM
War Camps

I lightly touched this idea in a previous post but it would be awesome of there was some kind of "temp extremely small" tribe-like area where you could build and your bins are safe.

Raiding in this game is good fun. However being unable to transport your ill-gotten loot to your tribe across the map could be a problem.. a problem solved by exploits!

1) Call a guide, one offered to teleport a cart across the map for me, I declined since I felt this was game braking and would remove the meaning from my actions.

2) Death port, also something I understand cannot be exactly "fixed" in the short term, and I'm not suggesting perma death (with the amount of grinding that would be insane) however I'm trying to highlight that transporting large, heavy amount of materials over large distances is a huge hassle if this is seen as a superior choice.

3) Cart carry weight not reducing enough weight by cart type. For example, it seemingly feels like a 5 slot has just as much carry weight reduction of the items inside of it as a 20 slot.. correct me if I'm wrong on that... but if that is the case than you could very, very, easily go over your max weight limit by filling 20 slots, 10 or even 5. So aside of having more slots to load up for a immobile cart, the 5 is just as good for heavy weight. The point is that this is "really" not a fast way to move anywhere when your weight is effectively 99%.

4) Cart problem #2 is that due to the carry weight being so outlandishly high when you load it and being unable to move, players have developed a "skill" where they click on the cart, click use and than sprint as fast as they can before the carry weight catches up or loads on them, this means they would be able to "sprint with cart at low carry weight" for a sec or two before the carry weight catches up and your ultra slow again.. so during this sec or two where the carry weight hasnt added yet, but your attached to cart, you can freely sprint as if the cart is weightless.. so what players are doing is they are using cart, sprint till weight added, than c+c quickly to turn combat on and off remove cart from you, than you click cart again, click use again and sprint again, cart becomes wightless and you use way less stamina, travel faster over large distance with large weight.

5) Use a alt to drop a totem on the area, giving your alt protection and the ability to either death port it out, cart glitch it out, or create a sealed "farm room" for your main account to farm the materials within the new tribe area despite not being part of said tribe cuz its a alts tribe.

~You could argue these are all problematic and boardline expolits in how they are dealing with the problem, cuz the reality is they are the EFFECT of the problem.

The problem? Seems to be two basic ones that I can see here.

1) You have no ability to reliably transport over long distances. For example, if I wanted to buy say a bin of granite from a player, the only and exclusive way I would get that from one end of the map to the other would be a death port. What if i wanted 20 bins of tools? or worse, 20 bins of granite? I'd have to run back n forth between tribes 20 times in order to do 20 bins of anything regardless of weight.

2) Theres no real reliable way to setup some kind of "short term" Raid Camp or War Camp or "temp zone" in order to stay in a area and raid the materials of a tribe unless you use a alt account or leave your tribe to drop a totem. This heavily discourages the "dead tribe raiding post apocalyptic" vibe alot of combat/pvps expect when they first play. So lets say they find a tribe to raid, lots of materials, they are a solo player. Lets say they don't have carts yet (cuz alot of players cant get carts for a while) they now have the choice, does he make repeated death port raids to bring things back one bin at a time? This could be problematic if the location is extremely far or hard to get to without dying for the player, not everybody has time to go back to a spot if they die trying to get there. Or does he bail on his current tribe to try and take over this one? Lets say its someone with a built tribe already who doesn't wana give up their tribe, than what? Their only real option is to try and death port it out, or haul a cart in and glitch the cart out fully loaded. These are all really lame options.

So how do I see this working? Whats the solution here? I feel I shouldn't be bitching about something unless I have a decent solution to fix the problem.

Basically this would be:
~"war camp mini tribe" that is player binded, extremely small, possibly 12m wide total or 6m in each direction from totem.
~Temp, it should have some kind of upkeep cost (possibly money or other) in order for it to stay in the current spot its in, possibly have a base money cost to even create the war camp, that "consumed" money to create the war camp would than start the "timer" like our tribe totems skill buff. So over the course of a week if they don't pay their upkeep than the war tribe banner drops
~Increasing price every week, possibly doubled every week, it should become more and more costly to keep a war camp or outpost running with a large increasing spike in costs. To prevent abuse of this you could have a cooldown after the war camp expires before your able to lay another war camp, possibly a few days to a week. This is a temp camp, not a way to grief by camping outside of people forever.
~There should be no way to make it larger
~ People SHOULD be able to build in it. Large enough to fix the largest building object, so slightly larger than the 8x8 trussing/ruff/ect
~ Bins in YOUR name SHOULD be locked and unable to be raided for as long as you pay your upkeep
~ Bins in OTHER PEOPLES names (like a raided bin for example) should not have their protections honored and be open to be raided.
~ Carts in "war camps" should act as if they are outside of tribe zones on regular ground, meaning they will go abandon or claimablable without tribe protection, this should not be a safe place to leave your cart.
~ The "war camp" banner or totem like object or whatever needs to be immune to building object blocking, meaning you need to be able to shove objects into it so that you could say for example put flooring down without being stopped by your "totem" (why is this a thing for regular totems?) Its gona be a small area so you cant have this blocking it.
~The player or even player(s) part of the "war camp" should NOT be immune to damage, I repeat, unlike a regular tribe, you should be able to attack these players inside of their "war camp" and damage them as normal.
~ War camps should have the ability to make a infirmary so it can be used as a mobile spawn point or "check point" if someone dies.
~ If someone dies, odds are they are getting their cash raided at the very least, so paying the $5 upkeep cost when you have no money is not possible sometimes and may force you to take the long trip home. There needs to be some way to "pre load" the infirmary with money OR have each time you die take x amount off the pre-paid consumed money used to make the war camp, so the camp will expire sooner the more you die... this would be a cool mechanic since if your at war with someone and they kill you enough, your war camp would be gone and they would have "removed the threat from their lands" or alternatively you could denie someone the ability to capture resources from a inactive tribe.
~ Not effected by "totem time" keeping the war camp refreshed, the war camp only should expire normally even if someone has this, while their tribe should be the thing safe from totem time.

Very basic idea that could use fine tune'n but the idea is pretty sound.

Benefits that come to mind quickly is that people would be able to engage in pvp with someone halfway across the map instead of having to spend half a hour or more just to get back to the same area before trying to get their revenge.

Another benfit that comes to mind is if your raiding a tribe and you got all these materials, instead of being forced to try and transport them across the entire map, you could "bunker down and grind it out" and if you didn't pay your upkeep or abandond the war camp than the next person could come across this 8x8 or 4x4 room with some "treasure to raid"... or if it was active still they could stick around, listen to the walls and see if anyones in there crafting or near... everybody has to drink water sometime.. so this would give a great raiding aspect of the game where someone in theory couldn't stay in a box and grind forever without coming out for food or water.

At this point you could get into cool mechanics like being able to damage walls of war camps WITHOUT opening every tribe up to the same damage to walls on attacks. You could effectively have both, your tribes as a safe zone, but your war camps as destructable buildings, obviously I think it should take a outlandish amount of damage to brake down something like a mason wall, still a fair amount for pioneer walls or even log walls tbh, I dont think it should be a easy task to smack down a wall but I think if theres 3-5 of you it should be totally possible, I don't think it should be something feasible from one person however.

Another benefit is that f2p could be added at this point and while their items would be safe they wouldnt have the "large protected tribe lands" till they paid for the game. They would be able to place bins on the ground or make storage for themselves in their war camp, try the building aspect of the game, but most improtant be able to actually play since once you get enoguh items on you, your carry weight is so high you cant continue, you need somewhere ot put the stuff. A temp war camp would fix this issue with f2p players.

Another benefit is someone hunting in the deep woods, maybe he wouldn't want anything too fancy past a teepee and a fireplace, but animals are super super heavy so the only real way to do hunting atm is to either drop a bin somewhere safe where your fire is like on some rocks and use it as your "drop spot" for the heavier bones (risking getting the whole bin jacked), or you gind them out there (risking being attacked in the open), or you bring a cart alllll the way out there to keep it safe while you fill it with bones. With a war camp you would be able to setup effectively a stationary "cart" in the form of a teepee that you could than come back to and use as a drop point for your bones n hunts.

Things weigh alot. This weight effects your stamina so traveling with weight is out of the option currently.... so being able to make somewhere you could either hold yourself up in a shack, or create temp storage so you could continue to play n back back for it, would be huge and I think would be a neat mechanic if added, give players more things to raid and explore... cuz thats whats fun about pvp, finding dead tribes to raid and fighting over it.. but war camps would be more fun I think since the expire timer is only a week instead of over 3 months, so the rate of them expiring would be much higher, it would give more things to explore n raid instead of the game seeming so baron and dead.
Issue Details
Issue Number 2673
Issue Type Feature
Project Suggestions
Category Unknown
Status Acknowledged
Priority 1 - Highest
Suggested Version Unknown
Implemented Version (none)
Votes for this feature 0
Votes against this feature 0
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)

05-16-2020 10:37 PM
Basically this sounds like weights are too high for what players want.

Adjusting weights and the carrying capacity of carts would be much easier than a complex war camp solution.

05-17-2020 03:20 PM
Xsyon Citizen
I don't disagree with you, I think carts should be heavily looked upon.

One thing that may solve the weight/cart issue is having a rolling speed increase.

Example; if your cart has a bin in it full of bricks, you won't be able to move any faster than if you had the bin of bricks on your back or in your cart, it will drain your stamina really really quickly and you won't move fast..... However if there was a change done so that as you continue to pull on the cart, the weight reduction on your speed gets reduced, than you could "build up speed" on a heavy cart and as long as you don't stop with it than it'll keep on rolling at the higher speed despite the heavy weight.

I think using the deer to pull around carts is another thing that could be a solution too if there was a way to make them follow you.

~~~Thats my opinion on the weight issue~~~

However the issue I'm talking about here is mainly that one of the most fun and luring parts of the game is that other tribes are becoming abandoned and you can raid them once their totem drops, however thats NOT what is happening.

What is happening is whenever at tribe expires, someone takes one of their alts and drops a totem on the tribe, basically locking all other players out of the spoils in a "first come first serve" situation.

This sucks cuz there should be a bunch of people watching that tribe, but due to time zones and how the game moves multiple game days per real day, its very likely that it may expire while your sleeping and you could wake up to someone already taking all the spoils without any effort or war to defend those resources.

I feel like you would be adding more fun to the game if you prevented this from happening, this would give other players the ability to raid a location before its all taken over by someone.

For example; if there was some sort of alternative totem to drop that did NOT prevent people from raiding the area (still able to open everything, nothing protected under tribe) than the area would still be contested, this means that if someone wants to drop a war totem they could eliminate the rev/zombies without having to leave their tribe or make a alt to take it over.

This would force people to actually fight over resources, instead of the first person who shows up gets all the resources and can sit there unable to die due to being unkillable on your own tribe lands.

I think this could be done pretty easily honestly by just removing all the protections from a tribe totem and just simply reducing the tribe totem size so its maybe 1/4th of what it was previously. If this was done it combination with preventing a totem being dropped on a area where a totem just expired would prevent people from totem dropping old tribes and force them to instead war totem drop.

With a war totem drop the person would have a spawn outpost instead of being forced to go all the way back to their tribe if they die. This would also give them a place to put their carts that can't be totem dropped and stolen from them by exploiting the fact that you can wall off someones carts till they expire to steal them like sark tried with me.... cuz atm if you DONT totem drop the entire tribe your raiding and take all the resources for yourself, your leaving yourself open to have someone else totem drop the area and steal all your carts and take everything from the whole tribe just by quickly dropping a totem... I feel this is too easy to take the resources and people should be battling over this, expired tribes should be heavy contested by people who want the resources instead of the first guy who gets there gets everything.

05-17-2020 03:23 PM
Xsyon Citizen
To look at this another way, people without multiple alts are at a huge disadvantage here, since if you don't have a alt to capture abandoned tribes with than you would have to either leave your tribe to claim a abandoned tribe or raid as much as you can before someone else finds it and totem drops it to take it all from you.

The problem here is nobody is actually fighting over resources when they can just totem drop it and claim it all, while being unkillable due to that totem drop..... I just don't think people should be able to drop something that makes every last item and bin unraidable and the person unkillable.. this isn't fun gameplay and removes one of the core aspects of the game that pvp minded players want to do, they want to be raiding, they want to fight other people over raids.

05-17-2020 03:27 PM
Xsyon Citizen
the 2ndary problem here is that since players cannot sort things out themselves your forcing us to use guides to sort out problems.

Like if sark couldn't cage my carts while being unkillable due to totem drop than I would have been able to deal with that situation myself without guide help... but since I couldn't kill him and he was stealing my carts in a abandoned tribe that he totem dropped cuz I was raiding it without dropping a totem, it made it so it was something I was unable to deal with myself and it became a issue the guides needed to become tangled in, instead of us being able to fight it out and see how things play out, we had to include the guides due to the exploits around this situation of raiding abandoned tribes or stealing peoples carts.

05-17-2020 03:30 PM
Xsyon Citizen
So if we can make it so the areas are contested instead of instant totem dropped that would be the main goal, everything here is just suggestions to solve this glaring problem with the game; that the most fun part of the game; raiding; is removed by people being able to just totem drop the entire tribe, making it no longer a contested area, no fight or anything, just whoever shows up first... this is a bad design for a pvp based game when this is the resource people should be fighting over, but they can't due to the nature of totem dropping making everything protected and the player unkillable.

05-17-2020 03:31 PM
Xsyon Citizen
a 30 day timer after a totem expires before you can drop another totem on the same spot may be a much more simple solution, it would prevent totem dropping till after 30 days, that should be more than enough time for people to raid it and fight over the resources.

05-18-2020 04:17 PM
Xsyon Citizen
Quote Originally Posted by Static
the 2ndary problem here is that since players cannot sort things out themselves your forcing us to use guides to sort out problems.

Like if sark couldn't cage my carts while being unkillable due to totem drop than I would have been able to deal with that situation myself without guide help... but since I couldn't kill him and he was stealing my carts in a abandoned tribe that he totem dropped cuz I was raiding it without dropping a totem, it made it so it was something I was unable to deal with myself and it became a issue the guides needed to become tangled in, instead of us being able to fight it out and see how things play out, we had to include the guides due to the exploits around this situation of raiding abandoned tribes or stealing peoples carts.

that was an alts tribe not sarks tribe, sark was totally vunerable cos it wasnt the tribe he belongs to, and yet you say i was unkillable, interesting.

05-18-2020 04:59 PM
Xsyon Citizen
the only reason I called a guide is that i got tired of you glitching through walls for over an hour.
Its funny how you totally overlook that.

05-19-2020 04:02 PM
Xsyon Citizen
Quote Originally Posted by chojinuk
that was an alts tribe not sarks tribe, sark was totally vunerable cos it wasnt the tribe he belongs to, and yet you say i was unkillable, interesting.
Look man I'm here trying to help the game not argue with you, so unless you have something constructive to add; with respect; keep it to yourself or privately message me if you'd like to engage in conversation.

This is not helping jordi playing this game with you where you attempt to twist my words around.

I don't care if your on sark or one of your alts, its still YOU, instead of calling you by 20 different names cuz you wana pretend that the alt and sark are somehow differerent people when your playing them both and alt tabbing between the two, just isn't reality, your arguing for no reason here cuz its pretty damn obvious I meant the alt you where playing on.

Why would I name your alt? Why does it matter? Your sark, with alts, your alt names don't matter, playing on one doesn't magically make it not you behind it.

05-19-2020 04:06 PM
Xsyon Citizen
Quote Originally Posted by chojinuk
the only reason I called a guide is that i got tired of you glitching through walls for over an hour.
Its funny how you totally overlook that.
Why tho?

Cuz you where using a exploit to steal someones carts by dropping a totem on it and than caging them inside of a box they couldn't get out of.

Your gona pretend like its cool for you to use a exploit but it isn't for others?

I actually am reporting these exploits instead of keeping them to myself like you, what kind of a high road do you think you are on here where you can screw with half the game base and keep exploits to yourself but you still think your better than everybody?

I donno why your so upset at half the player base in this game, but I was genuinely stoked to see you around till you started acting like this for no reason that I can see aside of trying to get my carts out of the box you built around me so I couldn't escape and would be forced to die in the box to get out...

You where abusing a exploit and you know it, to be an asshole, than you act like the victim as if you are not the guy actively trying to go out of his way to be a asshole.

With respect man; unless your here to add something useful, this isn't the place to be bickering, so private message me if you want to chat, otherwise bug off if you have nothing constructive to add.

05-19-2020 04:23 PM
Xsyon Citizen
This whole problem between myself and you (whatever version of sarks alt you wana call yourself) would have never been a issue if there was some way to contest a abandoned tribe.

This means that if there was say a 30 day cooldown on being able to drop a totem on a recently abandoned tribe you would not have been able to totem drop the whole area and claim all the resources, while also being able to build and cage me into the spot where my carts where.

I was forced offline due to server going down, so I went to bed. I wake up and the building around me is gone and I'm now in a granite box just big enough for me and my carts... I don't see how this is intended game play and if it is, it should be changed.

Quite obviously those resources are worth me and sark fighting over, look at how upset he is over not being able to get those resources.....

So why is ANYONE able to prevent this kind of gameplay by just simply using a alt to claim the entire area AND cause problems like him trying to claim my carts and kill me with a cage box.

People SHOULD be attacking each other over resources, people SHOULD be fighting each other over dead tribes resources... but the moment someone is able to drop a totem on it, they can build, lock all bins & storage, they effectively have claimed everything for themselves without a fight ... and if anyone shows up to try and grab anything, even if its their own cart, they would have to fight someone who cant die due to being on their own tribe grounds.... this is really really bad and unfun gameplay, its removing fun player interactions and removing the fun of raiding abandoned tribes since the first guy who shows up with a alt can claim it all.. and if you dont have a alt you can never claim anything.. this is heavily unbalanced and needs to be changed in order to make pvp interesting, this is boring and unfun...

Imagine spending all this time looking for a abandoned tribe, or even stalking ones timer waiting for it to pop, only for someone to make it there before you and claim it all, making all your effort totally worthless... this is not fun or inspiring gameplay....

Now if you show up and someone else is there raiding the area, but can't drop a totem on it, this forces you guys to either share the resources or fight each other for dominance of the location... this gets people thinking in a pvp combat minded way and would be fun gameplay, would add a level of danger to raiding that doesn't exist right now since someone can just drop a totem, claim everything, than grind freely cuz they cannot be killed on tribe lands... how is this fun? How is this creating pvp conflicts? How is this making people think about how to out smart someone? How is this making people think about how to steal resources or claim resources away from someone else?

Theres no thinking here, you just show up, see they claimed it all and move on cuz theres nothing you can do about it... this is not fun gameplay.

05-19-2020 04:32 PM
Xsyon Citizen
Another thing that is really a problem is that it takes quite a bit of time to actually look through all the bins, storage, ect in a tribe to see what you want and whats useful, to either grind it or move it to your tribe, this all takes alot of time.

However it takes zero time to drop a totem, giving you now unlimited time to search bins/storage, grind freely and transport freely.

Thats the biggest problem here is that anyone who does NOT have a alt to instant claim everything will be at a HUGE disadvantage since they will be forced to grab resources the slow way, loading it into a cart and hauling it home... and if they attempt that, someone could totem drop it, stopping you from raiding anything else and if they wall/cage your carts than they can wait for them to go abandoned in order to steal your carts+resources too.

This is bad gameplay and honestly I think the most simple solution would just to simple have a 30 day timer on being able to totem drop any area that just pop'd due to being abandoned exclusively.

I say abandoned exclusively since obviously if someone drops their own totem it shouldn't have the same effect, only if the totem turns to revs than disappears due to abandoned, if there was a 30 day cooldown than nobody could totem drop it and there would be 30 days for people to get the resources however they can.