Tribes beyond the mist
issueid=2689 05-26-2020 01:53 AM
Static
Tribes beyond the mist

This is another idea along the lines of "how can we get players to go to a location to fight, sneak or otherwise compete for resources/materials"

The map is alot larger than the current mist restrictions correct?

What if we had, possibly once a week, a rotation of locations on the map that "by the shifting of the wind" the mist is blow away from a area, revealing an abandoned tribe for people to raid.

The rotation could have one on each side of the map, north, west, east, south, this would force people to travel to other zones as the "winds shift" to access the zone opened up by the "wind"

There are revenant in the game already, this could benefit this type of raiding by adding dangerous revenant's to the area.

Each area could be equipped with a tribe theme of equipment, for example, you could have a tribe wearing different forms of hugaleti or bone/leather/cloth armor, some warrior's with bone armor and heavy weapons like shovels or polearms, some rogues with leather armor and faster weapons like axes or clubs and some civilians with cloth armor with clubs or unarmed.

Design each "ruined tribe" as a raid zone where each of the revenant's have a pouch or backpack on them with resources or materials in them.

Design areas to raid such as buildings to check with bins in them, randomize the resources or materials in them, this is half the "fun" of alot of the post apocalyptic world settings such as fallout 3/new vegas/4 and "the outer worlds" is:

1) looting baddies you kill

2) looting ruins you come across

You have baddies, you have ruins, but you have zero loot to fight over or reward people with...

Could reward people with basic loot tables, cutting it into 3 classes, the heavier higher hp guys with bone armor having the best stuff, leather guys with mid hp some good stuff and the cloth guys with low hp some mild stuff.

bone guys could have artisan and master schematics, possibly decent master grade 75q+ armor & weapons
leathercraft guys could have craftsman and artisan schematics, possibly decent artisan grade 50q+ armor & weapons.
cloth guys could have basic schematics, possibly basic 25q+ armor & weapons.

Some other possible loot items could be light but useful things like weapon heads or tools heads as an alternative way to get them outside of scavenge. Money is another option since you also can't get this outside of scavenge.

Could have lootable buildings or bins with basic materials such as cloth squares & scraps, leather squares & scraps, bones (possibly human bones?) rivets, screws, you could make the spawn a randomization of the junk loot table with a 50% chance of a bin's slot being empty so not every slot was filled, but not everything would be useful either.

You could do this once a week while the server is down like it normally is, it could swap mist opening location, purge the old tribe area to save on server cpu and spawn the new tribe revs+loots. If you came up with 4 different tribes that would cover a months rotation, you could leave the structures of the tribe themselves in place so the only thing that would need to change weekly is despawning old revs, spawning new revs and randomizing the items in the new area, while purging them in the old area.... another way could be leaving the old area's items there till that time next month again and purging the new areas items at the same time as respawning it, would have the same effect.

This would give a place deeeeep in the wilds for the strongest players, or the bravest groups to explore. The biggest risks in fighting revs, mixed with the highest rewards in things you can't get anywhere else outside of scavenge or materials you can grind to raise your stats, leather and granite could be good raid-able things cuz they weigh so much you cant really transport them or run away with alot of it, you would have to think about how to do it by either killing the revs or working with other players or sneaking around them, theres alot of cool gameplay options here if people are thinking about "how do I get that stuff"
Issue Details
Issue Number 2689
Issue Type Feature
Project Suggestions
Category Unknown
Status Acknowledged
Priority 5 - Medium
Suggested Version Unknown
Implemented Version (none)
Votes for this feature 1
Votes against this feature 0
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




05-26-2020 01:59 AM
Xsyon Citizen
I think this feature could be cool even for pve tbh since if you made the tribes large enough (like a large maze city populated with revs, full of buildings or houses to check) than there would be a reason for people to gather in numbers to fight these things.

I think they should also respawn like regular revs do, so if folks come back the next day or someone else comes along, they should be all alive again to protect the deepest loot.

The way it should be setup is that the deeper you go into it, like a maze, the stronger the revs get and the better the loot gets.

This could setup a "party" where one guy is possibly pulling the cart and raiding while the other 2-3 are focusing on healing and killing revs to push forward, there would be a collective reason to work togeather for the common goal of that loot.

At the "end" of the maze you could have something more special if someone actually fights through the entire gauntlet of revs, possibly a 100q item or a master blueprint or a decent amount of cash or possibly a selected spawn at random off a list of higher end things.

Take too long to get through and the revs spawn behind you, making your escape harder. Die and the guy who kills you could possibly steal some of your equipment and your party would have to try and manage without you.

This all sounds like great gameplay that doesn't exist currently in the game.

05-26-2020 03:32 AM
Xsyon Citizen
Another idea could be having a tribe chief at the end to offer you a choice of reward for making it there.

This way instead of being a building or a bin loot where the first person gets it, it could be a NPC that offers each player their choice of a few options.

This would give a cool thing for people to do every week, that EVERYBODY would want to do to get the rewards.

This could create the need for strong players in order to pass the combat of the area.

This would create "runs" where people who are weak or unable to fight would stay back and pay stronger players to help them make it to the chief.

This would be kinda like "nicholas the traveler" in guild wars, he changes his location every week to a new area in the game.. alot of zones in that game so alot of options for him to go.. I think 4 options here would work fine, could grow in the future, but 4 gives you enough to have one on each side of the map and one every week for a month.

05-26-2020 03:42 AM
Xsyon Citizen
Basically this game rewards siting in your protected tribe farming local resources too much.

Need more reasons and rewards for leaving your tribe or interacting with other players, working with other players or verse other players.

05-26-2020 08:09 PM
Xsyon Citizen
Some more thoughts:

Have it as a actual tribe, you enter and it says your entering that tribe zone same as any other.

Have it the size of a max tribe... I get this would take time to design but I'm willing to volunteer to design a dungeon type tribe around this for a guide to build, or even build it myself if I had the resources/materials available to me.

05-27-2020 03:42 PM
Xsyon Citizen
I threw together a quick design for one of these tribes.

05-27-2020 03:44 PM
Xsyon Citizen
With this suggestion, those not strong enough to pass the trial would be able to hire other people to pass it as a group, or they could avoid the trial all together and raid the buildings till they get stronger

05-27-2020 03:50 PM
Xsyon Citizen
This could be a trial given to you by this tribe to test your strength, could in theory have some kind of object that you interact with that spawns the revs for you to start the challenge.

Could have random "cloth" revs spawnning and running around as normal, but once you interact with the object to spawn revs it would spawn actual warrior's to test your strength, leather and bonecraft revs.

This way the area still has cloth revs in it for lower skilled players, but for those who want to challenge the trial they would be spawning much stronger leather and bonecraft revs.

Each of the 3 zones I made it so they had "courtyards" to be used for situations like this.

Could do it as a simple check one each courtyard, a object you interact with and it spawns the revs, making the next object something that won't work till those spawned revs are killed, forcing you to kill them before spawning the next round of revs with the next object.

Glowing skull or something would be cool, maybe a gem skull you gotta touch. Give it a pop up warning that you get a ominous feeling when you go to put your hand near it, are you sure you want to touch this?

05-27-2020 03:53 PM
Xsyon Citizen
The big thing here is that you would only be able to collect the trial passing rewards once a week per account.|

This would prevent abuse from someone repeatedly passing it, but also open up the opportunity for people who are too weak to hire stronger people in order for them to pass it for their weekly despite not being strong enough to do it.

This would encourage people to work together, or, show up and spoil peoples fun by raiding them and taking their materials.

It would turn these areas into a hotspot, once a week.

05-31-2020 11:18 AM
Xsyon Citizen
Great Idea, I wanna go raiding tribes in the mist.

06-11-2020 05:04 AM
This is far too complicated for me to implement. It also would make Xsyon more of a 'theme park' game which is not my intention at all.

My original goal was that players would create situations and 'adventures' such as this for each other. I am still headed towards that goal. Eventually 'dungeon master' type of players are meant to be able to create adventures such as this.

For now, I will see if some of this idea can be incorporated into Guide run events.

Thanks

06-11-2020 10:19 AM
Xsyon Citizen
I'm confused why this makes it a theme park while if players made the same thing its not a theme park.

In my opinion, having a player made area like this would just simply not work since the player wouldn't be able to spawn or keep enemies and there would be no rewards to be had.

I think it would be alot harder to code everything required for a player to do this.

You would need things like ground switches to confirm people have passed a area, you'd need locked boxes with the ability to trigger a unlock or something that gives a item under set conditions.... we're talking about "redstone" in minecraft here if you actually want to give players the ability to do the things they would need to do to setup complex dungeons, so with respect, I think that all is a way bigger task to code than what I'm suggesting here.

However I do like the idea of guide ran events doing the same thing. They could have something like this built beyond the mist and teleport anyone there upon request for that week, than the next week they teleport them to the next area, this would require less coding than creating a mist path to the area, but would require alot more effort from the guide teleporting people in and out of a area they can't otherwise get in and out of.... This may not work very well since the guide cannot be online 24/7 so people are going to miss out on it.

I understand your goal of "players creating adventure" but you have no tools in place to do this without heavy coding, I'm not sure how you can do this without braking the game. Example; if you give players the ability to spawn revs or creatures than you'll effectively have ruined hunting, but this is required if you want them to be a dungeon master since they will need to place enemies in the dungeon, is this something you've thought fully through?

06-11-2020 10:21 AM
Xsyon Citizen
Again the whole point and goal of this is to get people together in a common location for player interactions THAT DONT CURRENTLY EXIST IN THE GAME.

Currently this game favors staying in your home and becoming a hermit, never leaving your home cuz theres no reason to aside of hunting.

This would give people a reason to leave their home, a reason to meet up with other people, a reason to work togther, or a reason to stalk and bandit them... these are all great gameplay features currently missing from the game and this is my attempt at solving this giant hole missing in the game atm.

06-11-2020 10:27 AM
Xsyon Citizen
I think having dead tribes would add to the lore of the game, sure civilization is dead and long gone, but who are these tribes we're trading with on our "byond the mist trader" ?

Shouldn't those tribes actually be there, beyond the mist somewhere?

This would be a easy way to theme each city after what their beyond the mist trader name was.

You have many many options of what you can do here, my suggestion is purely just one option of a zombie city you can raid.. you don't need to go this direction, you could have npc's and a peaceful city for one week where you instead must navigate a maze or solve some puzzles, the options here are endless.

06-11-2020 12:39 PM
Xsyon Citizen
Honestly a better place to start might be turning founders isle into something more than a ghost town.

06-11-2020 12:45 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Static
I'm confused why this makes it a theme park while if players made the same thing its not a theme park.
In a 'theme park' the 'adventures' are designed and created by the developers and have NPCs etc.. My goal is for the world and adventures to be designed and built by players using tools that I create.

That is the entire reason I developed Xsyon in the first place. I wanted to create something that may ultimately feel like Warcraft but was entirely player created and driven.

Quote Originally Posted by Static
In my opinion, having a player made area like this would just simply not work since the player wouldn't be able to spawn or keep enemies and there would be no rewards to be had.
When my goals are finally met, 'dungeon master' players will have animals they can set up to serve as enemies (that they have tamed, captured, bred or created) and they will set up rewards. In turn they get rewarded with experience and the fun of being a 'dungeon master'.

I think it would be a lot harder to code everything required for a player to do this.
You are wrong. I would basically have to finish the tools to set up these things then spend tons of my time using the tools creating adventures or setting up some additional complex adventure generating system. (Or I could have Guides use the tools, but once the tools are complete they might as be used by 'dungeon master' players).

Guides could set up similar 'adventures' with the current tool set. However, the current tool set doesn't not lend it self well to an automated set up and is time consuming to use manually.

I understand your goal of "players creating adventure" but you have no tools in place to do this without heavy coding
Again, you are wrong. I haven't released any of the tools but a lot of this has been set up. It just won't be finished or released until all the desired systems such as pets, mounts, ranged combat and other requested skills are completed.

Example; if you give players the ability to spawn revs or creatures than you'll effectively have ruined hunting, but this is required if you want them to be a dungeon master since they will need to place enemies in the dungeon, is this something you've thought fully through?
Yes, I have thought it through. Not all players will be 'dungeon masters'.

Anyways, I am just letting you know my ultimate goals. They may never happen. This is not definitely going to be happening right now and I have a lot of other things to work on.

As for players not leaving their tribes:

- Resources are area specific, so players should be having to leave their tribes to obtain specific resources.

If players are able to find every resource or material within their tribe or near their tribe area, then this was balanced incorrectly and I will redo the distribution once I am done with the current patch series.

- Players should also be trading and leaving their tribes to do so, even if it to use Mist Traders at different tribe.

If Mist Traders are not useful I will revise this so that they are.

- Player should be using the Quest system to gain experience rather than grinding.

Yes, the Quest system needs a revamp and I will do it. Gaining experience should be easier and more rewarding than grinding.

I realize that these systems need revisions but it is much easier for me to revisit, revise and improve the current systems so that they function as intended rather than basically create an entirely new game while leaving current systems unused.

Thanks

06-11-2020 06:21 PM
Xsyon Citizen
In a 'theme park' the 'adventures' are designed and created by the developers and have NPCs etc.. My goal is for the world and adventures to be designed and built by players using tools that I create.

That is the entire reason I developed Xsyon in the first place. I wanted to create something that may ultimately feel like Warcraft but was entirely player created and driven.
So will players be able to place NPC's than? How can they create a adventure without spawnable enemies or npcs? They need to be online 24/7 to wait in case someone comes along than you physically do everything a npc could've have done?

But why? NPC's are great, they fill a function so you don't have to have a human physically doing it. Can still do everything else you wanted even with a few npcs.


- Resources are area specific, so players should be having to leave their tribes to obtain specific resources.

If players are able to find every resource or material within their tribe or near their tribe area, then this was balanced incorrectly and I will redo the distribution once I am done with the current patch series.
I mean there isn't many resources. You start near the beach and you have sand, limestone and granite, plus all the rares that go with it.

If you also are near a junk pile and somewhere you can plant trees than you have every resource right next to you aside of creatures.

With the new creature migration patch, creatures are everywhere, so you barely even need to leave your place to go hunt now.

What do you think is incorrect here? I mean its pretty easy for anyone to setup near a junk pile where all the resources come from... once you have enough of them, what reason do you honestly have to leave your tribe at that point? If you also got limestone/granite/sand than you dont need to leave for that, plant trees next to you and you have all resources you could ever need.

So you think its incorrect that theres places people can settle thats near a junk pile, thats also near the beach for sand/limestone/granite? Thats like half the map, gona be insanely hard to remove that or "correct" that.

Again, folks need a big reason to leave their tribe, some kind of reward worth the risk... currently theres no reward to expore the map, only rewards to leave long enough to get materials close to you than return home..

- Players should also be trading and leaving their tribes to do so, even if it to use Mist Traders at different tribe.

If Mist Traders are not useful I will revise this so that they are.
Mist traders are great, but they are so expensive that nobody can afford to buy anything off them. 10,000 its alot of money, to the point where if I didn't raid 100k from a tribe than there was no way I would've been buying bps for 10,000. So if you want people to legitimately use them, lowering costs may be a idea.

The problem is tho when you go to founders isle to do the trade and NOBODY IS THERE. Whos trading this? Whos loading it into the trader? Who lives here? Founders isle being a ghost town is a huge opportunity lost imo, this could be a area to be teaching newbies the basics of the game so that people like me didn't need to lol.

- Player should be using the Quest system to gain experience rather than grinding.

Yes, the Quest system needs a revamp and I will do it. Gaining experience should be easier and more rewarding than grinding.
Whats to stop someone from making a agreement with someone far enough away from them (exp based on distance?) and doing power leveling by getting them to give you back the rewards so you can accept it again?

I mean lets say I swim over to the other side of the map, turn in a quest of 100 dollars for 1 nail, where the leader gives me my 100 dollars back and I give him the nail back, he puts the nail back in quest and I pay for the nail again with 100 dollars, completing the quest twice.

Whats to stop someone from just repeatedly doing that and grinding that instead of crafting? I think if you make "quests" a better way to gain exp than your gona have mass abuse with it.

06-11-2020 06:45 PM
Xsyon Citizen
Mostly people will travel for rarer resources. Like blueprints, animals, mats from scrap piles.

Have you done higher end crafting with Master Recipes and Purple mats? Because it's pretty hard to find that on the whole map. Make a master crafted leather CHA suit or something. You will see you want to leave your tribe and you will for a long period.

These are not in any 1 area. You can't get all the blueprints from even 1/4th map, nor can you get all the purple/rare scav mats from 1/4th the map. So they will have to travel a good bit.

I see nothing wrong with a system of quests like you say at the end. If someone wants to "grind" quests I think it should be a valid boring way to play just as much if someone wants to pick up rock all day.

I think the most rewarding should be playing the game. Quests and Grinding can and have been abused, but there are limits. Once you know those limits you balance them accordingly and promote better play options in other ways.

Example, in your system of 100$ for 1 nail. (doesnt matter if its 1 nail or 10000 to be honest right because you handing it back to start again).
That person takes 5mins to cross the lake, then 1min to respawn, another 1min to get the quest and rest. Thats 7mins.
I can find 100$ in less than 7mins, plus I would get skills and green points. Simply just balance it. He can set the EXP be less or more if its too easy or too hard.

Quests are a great system to the game that are not used because it's hard to set up. Once the set up system is better, they should be a really good system for tribes to make "quests" or buy orders or whatever you want to call it.

You talk about how much a recipe is being 10,000$ well that is like the most expensive recipe. Most are like 100$ to 500$.

06-11-2020 08:09 PM
By resources I mean the specific materials, blueprints, schemes that are all regional and found only in specific areas. Players can't just sit around one tribe and get everything.

You also have a higher chance to scavenge rare resources away from your own tribe.

If they can, then I need to look into the distribution map, but I'm quite sure that they are regional and may just need a bit of adjustment.

About xp, yes I think the main way should just be playing... so maybe more xp for hunting, especially tough fights. More xp for other actions. Xp for participating in contests (which is something that has not been implemented). Anyways, that's all for the future.

06-11-2020 08:40 PM
Xsyon Citizen
Quote Originally Posted by Xsyon
If they can, then I need to look into the distribution map, but I'm quite sure that they are regional and may just need a bit of adjustment.
This is working exactly like this, I do not think they need to be changed. There is a lot of player noted data on where stuff is, and I would hate for people to have to relearn all that stuff because someone doesnt understand how it works.


Quote Originally Posted by Xsyon
About xp, yes I think the main way should just be playing... so maybe more xp for hunting, especially tough fights. More xp for other actions. Xp for participating in contests (which is something that has not been implemented). Anyways, that's all for the future.
Sounds exciting and it would be awesome.

06-12-2020 10:39 AM
Xsyon Citizen
Have you done higher end crafting with Master Recipes and Purple mats? Because it's pretty hard to find that on the whole map. Make a master crafted leather CHA suit or something. You will see you want to leave your tribe and you will for a long period.

These are not in any 1 area. You can't get all the blueprints from even 1/4th map, nor can you get all the purple/rare scav mats from 1/4th the map. So they will have to travel a good bit.
Aparently only 5% of people are strong enough to focus on these things.

I disagree with you that these are reasons to mass travel for 95% of players, since 95% of players only use basic materials they dont need to travel for.

Theres like 3 players on the server who may be focusing on this like your claiming.

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