prevent totem dropping on owned carts
issueid=2687 05-25-2020 11:50 AM
Static
prevent totem dropping on owned carts

Carts becoming abandoned after x amount of time, so there is already a feature in place to claim carts from other players if they are not in use.

So letting someone drop a totem on your cart, so they can build a box around it and prevent you from getting your cart before it becomes abandoned, so they can steal it off you, seems like a exploit more than legitimate gameplay.

My suggestion is that if a cart is active, that you cannot build anything in the tribe till the cart is removed.

If its abandoned you should be able to claim it, than drop a totem.

But if its still active, this opens up for levels of grief and abuse that shouldn't be in the game in my opinion by letting players totem drop carts and cage them.

I'm all for a raiding system, but this is not a raiding system, this is someone holding onto your carts inside of a protected tribe zone till they expire two weeks later, this is not fun gameplay and is exploiting the totem drop on alt accounts.

The two ways I can think of moving a cart off tribe area:

1) let the tribe leader move it ~ keep it locked on panel menu cuz it will be equipped ~ auto drop it 5m outside of tribe so they cant take off with it and take it to another tribe.

2) auto pushing, the game shoves the cart to the edge +5m away from the tribe area.

This has been edited and updated with a refined suggestion to avoid confusion of multiple suggestions.
Issue Details
Issue Number 2687
Issue Type Feature
Project Suggestions
Category Unknown
Status Rejected
Priority 1 - Highest
Suggested Version Unknown
Implemented Version (none)
Votes for this feature 0
Votes against this feature 1
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




05-25-2020 11:53 AM
Visitor
The point of dropping a totem is to settle somewhere to build and live, develop your own area...

The point of dropping a totem shouldn't be to steal someones cart by building a cage around it.

The point of dropping a totem shouldn't be to claim all the items in a entire area without a fight.

Where you can drop a totem and when you can drop a totem I feel needs to be re-looked at.

05-25-2020 12:03 PM
Xsyon Citizen
or maybe dont leave carts on public land ?

they are at risk.

i get that all you do is loot other peoples hard work but you're to lazy to even haul your own shit,

you want sit on public land and grind it all rather then haul it.

in the example that you insist on talking about you were even to lazy to kill all the revs, instead you walled yourself into a tent -
on public land, very dangerous cos anyone drop a totem and then your screwed.. oh wait that happened already.

every suggestion you make is to make your looting easier.

and one time someone showed and postponed you getting more of other peoples stuff.

i say postponed, cos you got all the carts remember.

why not you know get your own stuff, rather then take everyone else's

looting is not the only thing in the game but to you thats all there is.

05-25-2020 03:12 PM
Visitor
I'm getting REALLY sick of you;

1) derailing my posts

2) claiming something other than what I am claiming

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Did I "leave my cart on public land" ? No. The server went down for a update you dense piece of shit.

"i get that all you do is loot other peoples hard work but you're to lazy to even haul your own shit,"

How ignorant are you? I'm supposed to teleport carts across the entire map, across the lake, BEFORE the server goes down and boots me?

"in the example that you insist on talking about you were even to lazy to kill all the revs, instead you walled yourself into a tent -
on public land, very dangerous cos anyone drop a totem and then your screwed.. oh wait that happened already."

Again your making shit up. I killed the rev's but cuz the SERVER WENT DOWN FOR A UPDATE YOU DENSE PIECE OF SHIT they respawned, cuz thats what happens, revs respawn, they don't die forever when you kill them. So you suggesting that I didn't kill them is false, I did kill alot of them, but they respawned after I was forced offline.

With my proposed changes you wouldn't be able to steal carts, how that is "making things easier for me" and not "fixing a MAJOR EXPLOIT IN THE GAME THAT YOUR UPSET WITH LOSING" is something I don't understand, but is something you refuse to stop saying.

Your not helping, your not adding anything, in fact, your just being a hostile piece of shit who is derailing legitimate subjects.

Go away.

05-25-2020 03:18 PM
Visitor
Like there is already a system in place for you to "take a cart in a unsafe place" and thats waiting the two weeks for it to go abandoned.

This is a exploit and not intended gameplay for people to drop a totem and seal someone AND THEIR CART till the 2 weeks is past and it goes abandoned.

The point of abandoned carts is that "you left it in a unsafe place and now anyone can take it cuz you left it"

The point is not 4-6 hours after you last used the cart someone can drop a totem on it, cage your carts in walls and than freak out at you if you dare to try and get your stuff back? This obviously is a expliot and not intended gameplay.. but cuz your an asshole who likes to do that, your gona fight to keep that feature around so you can continue to be an asshole that everybody in the game hates?

05-25-2020 03:38 PM
Visitor
The main reason why its not raiding and its a exploit is cuz its preventing gameplay or counter gameplay.

So theres no way for you to fight over your cart or get your cart back, the moment they drop a totem they cannot be killed and you cannot destory the walls to brake in to get your stuff.

There is no feature in place to fight over the carts, only steal them without a fight due to the nature of totems making you unkillable and your buildings destructable.

06-01-2020 10:06 AM
Xsyon Citizen
I believe if you ask a Guide they will help get your cart back.

However, you can use carts to block people from placing with this new system also.

I have to say I do not agree with this, if you leave a cart out or if the server goes down. Simply go get it. If you can't get it because someone build around it in the few days, then ask a guide to get it. If you took over 2 weeks, it's gone anyways. It is very very unlikely someone is going to drop an alt totem on a cart you left out. Then build around it in hopes of taking your cart.
If they do this often, you can even just trick them bringing a few carts and putting them around in areas making them waste massive amounts of time.
If the server went down and it took you X long to get back to your cart. Those people would have to move really fast to bring an alt there, drop a totem, build walls up so you can't get in, just to take a cart.
They can't build walls until they drop a totem. So what you are saying is not really even normal or possible, at best very unlikely. Plus there is a way to get around it. Simply log back on and move your cart. Or like I said if it's trapped there really, get a guide to move it.

06-01-2020 01:59 PM
Visitor
Quote Originally Posted by MrDDT
I believe if you ask a Guide they will help get your cart back.

However, you can use carts to block people from placing with this new system also.

I have to say I do not agree with this, if you leave a cart out or if the server goes down. Simply go get it. If you can't get it because someone build around it in the few days, then ask a guide to get it. If you took over 2 weeks, it's gone anyways. It is very very unlikely someone is going to drop an alt totem on a cart you left out. Then build around it in hopes of taking your cart.
If they do this often, you can even just trick them bringing a few carts and putting them around in areas making them waste massive amounts of time.
If the server went down and it took you X long to get back to your cart. Those people would have to move really fast to bring an alt there, drop a totem, build walls up so you can't get in, just to take a cart.
They can't build walls until they drop a totem. So what you are saying is not really even normal or possible, at best very unlikely. Plus there is a way to get around it. Simply log back on and move your cart. Or like I said if it's trapped there really, get a guide to move it.
Its not "someone building around it in a few days"

Its someone building a building around it within say 4-6 hours so when you log back in, your in a box WITH your carts, your only option is to die in the box to get out.

I hear what your saying about a cart blocking, however, you need to refresh it every two weeks, so if someone was using a cart for blocking they would have to be refreshing those carts pretty often so I don't really see this being a problem since the abandoned time is so short, if someone leaves a cart with this intention, they would have to put effort into keeping it there and that in itself wouldn't be the worst mechanic.

I hear you putting this idea down and thats fine to have some concerns or point out issues, however, I'm not hearing a alternative solution, you kinda strawmanned your whole comment since its not a few days, we're talking about someone finding your cart and building around it right than and there.

Or if your mid raid on a abandoned tribe, they could take the entire tribe AND you with your carts would be trapped with it.

I understand I "could" cry to the guides and get them involved.

However I feel the game should be able to sort things out by itself, if the game, by design, requires a guide to fix problems than it needs to design something around that so that players can work things out themselves.

I'm saying calling guides for everything isn't good gameplay and shouldn't be the normal or supported way to deal with things.

There should be a standard and that standard prevents exploits and abuse, not a guide stepping in to prevent abuse.

Lets be honest here; sark thinks theres no problem with caging someone and their cart in a box after totem dropping them cuz its "part of the game" and therefore since its "part of the game" than caging peoples carts is "intended gameplay" and its hard to disagree with him despite it obviously being a exploit since carts already have an abandon system at two weeks, so caging someones cart to hold it for two weeks to make it go abandoned seems like a exploit or at least non-intended gameplay... but its "technically possible" so does that make it "intended gameplay? It seems that way to sark and there lies the problem.

The problem is not that I can't get my carts back, the problem is that this is seemingly "intended gameplay" and if I "do actually call a guide" and get my carts back than sark is going to be upset cuz I'm using a guide to "cheat" when he "rightfully stole my carts with intended gameplay" by totem dropping my carts and caging them, I mean if its not intended gameplay, how is he able to do it?

You see the logic circle problem? Asking a guide to get my carts back doesn't address the core issue, it just gives me my cart back and makes sark feel like he was cheated out of something he used legitimate features of the game to take, he put alot of effort into keeping those carts and the guides robbed him of that sweet victory.

Either stealing carts this way is intended and accepted gameplay, or there needs to be a change.

One change could be, letting people totem drop a area, but not build till they move the carts off the land/tribe area. There would need to be some kind of "auto drop" as soon as they get to the edge of the tribe, or else there would be abuse of people being able to than haul that cart to another tribe to cage and defeat the whole purpose... but if they where able to move it to the edge of tribe.... or if the game automatically pushed carts to edge of tribe before they could build anything, than that could be a solution where people can't block with carts, but are unable to cage by totem drop + building.

If you have other SOLUTIONS I'd love to hear them.

06-01-2020 02:11 PM
Visitor
I do agree that using carts (say a large amount of them in an array) would be a really bad form of gameplay and would not be the intended use of this change.

So I think my final suggestion of letting people totem drop carts, but not let them build till the cart is moved, would solve the additiional unintended gameplay of using carts to block totems.

However, if you let the totem dropper move the cart, it would need to be locked even in the pack panel since it would be technically equipped.

It would also need to automatically drop when you exit the tribe area, since if they can run beyond tribe zone, than they could just run home to another tribe and cage it, so it would have to drop maybe 5m away from tribe.

Best solution I can think of, but I welcome any other solutions you can think of, the main core issue being that we need to figure out a course of action that is okay for all players so that guides don't need to step in.

Either this kind of gameplay is fine and acceptable; and the guides should NOT return my cart if someone does it

OR

This kind of gameplay is NOT fine or acceptable and things should change so its no longer physically possible to do it, removing the core issue.

06-01-2020 03:39 PM
Xsyon Citizen
I did give a solution. If you are stuck, you call a guide. If your cart is stuck you call a guide.

First off, you say 4 or 5 hours whatever the time is. You still have 2 weeks to call a guide. You also have time to grab your cart and go. The issue comes in if you can not log in for a while (hours most likely to days) and your cart is locked up. In this rare (very rare) case. Call a guide in the 2 week timer and get your cart.

I agree with your other option you just listed.
You can not build until the cart is moved. Which I believe is already the current way. However, there is a radius.

I think the current system is not an issue. If it is an issue simple put in a support ticket and you get your cart by guide.
No need to change to a system that is worse. Which people can use carts to lock of lands.

06-01-2020 04:02 PM
Visitor
Calling a guide is not a gameplay mechanic.

06-01-2020 04:04 PM
Visitor
I have edited the op to remove the problem your claiming with using carts to block.

The cart needs to be removed off land or forced off land before you can build, this would remove the issue and PREVENT THE NEED for a guide to be called.

06-01-2020 04:07 PM
Visitor
In my opinion, guides should not be interfering with player interactions, so fixing mechanic holes like this so that they are not required seems like a good idea.

Again, if its left the way it is "with guides fixing it" it makes players who do this feel robbed by the guides, giving them a negative opinion of the guides, I get it.

From the side of the player who have it done to them, they feel like they are in a powerless situation to the point where they need to beg the guides to get involved?

This situation SUCKS for BOTH parties involved, by changing the mechanics and how the game works, it prevents the NEED for a guide.

I know thats how it IS right now that you need to call a guide, but its not how it COULD BE, we could change the mechanic so the guide is no longer required to interfere.

06-01-2020 04:09 PM
Visitor
Its a pvp server, theres gona be alooot of people trying to do whatever they can to take from other people or exploit what they can.

Saying cuz a guide can "get your stuff if someone puts all that effort into the game to get what they want" is not solving the core issue here; people view this as a mechanic and intended part of the game, they will feel ROBBED if a guide comes along and takes what they view to be the rewards of their hard work ~ And I agree with them, even sark, I agree, its a part of the game, why shouldn't he abuse a exploit to steal my carts or kill me? Its possible, so it must be intended gameplay... So we need to make it not possible so its not intended gameplay, crying to a guide does not solve this core issue, it just offers a solution to the effect without addressing the cause.

06-01-2020 06:09 PM
Xsyon Citizen
Your system, I can make it so a guide would need to be called.
My system (current one) a guide would need to be called.

What you can say, is tough luck you lost your cart. PVP happens. See how the current system supports that?

I agree. That guides are not gameplay options. However, there are a few things that you need to call a guide to fix that are not game play options. It happens. The thing you are wanting to change it too again, would make it so a guide would have to get into it.


Currently, you are upset because someone can put effort and work into taking your cart. So you want to change it so people with carts and grief people. Not sure why you want to do this if you believe in

Saying cuz a guide can "get your stuff if someone puts all that effort into the game to get what they want" is not solving the core issue here; people view this as a mechanic and intended part of the game, they will feel ROBBED if a guide comes along and takes what they view to be the rewards of their hard work ~
Which is it? You can't have it both ways. You can't say all this hard work, then turn around and be upset because of it.

Current system is fine. What you are talking about like never happens. If it does in the extremely rare cases. Simply call a guide to fix it.

What system I would be for would be sieges. So if someone were to box in a cart, you can attack their base and blow it up. However, that's a massive system that is likely never coming into play because its also only for 1 of the 2 servers, and only a few people would bother with and most people would be highly upset losing their whole tribe to a siege.


P.S. It's a lot easier to read if you type it all in 1 post and not 4.

06-01-2020 07:53 PM
Visitor
You don't seem to be understanding me at all. I am not "upset" that sark put in effort? Why would that bother me?

I see his point of view, does that mean I'm upset? No, it means I understand where hes coming from, hes able to do it, so why isn't a intended feature?

I'm not "upset" I am offering a suggestion to improve the game so a situation like this doesn't happen again for someone else, since it sucks for BOTH parties involved.

I'm not even sure what your arguing at this point... give up suggesting better ways to do things and force the guides to take care of every situation? Why if we can figure out a better way to do things that doesn't require a guide?

If you can't build while the cart is on your lands, than some mechanic to move it off, I don't see what the problem is since it solves your issue of "cart blocking" abuse and it also solves the issue of "totem dropping carts"

I fail to see what your issue here is, so if you can keep it on subject instead of trying to twist this around into being about "upset" that would be great, cuz I'm able to see BOTH sides of things here, it sucks for BOTH players to have the guides interfere, the person "totem dropping" feels robbed by the guide interfering and the person who has their cart taken is forced to contact the guide to get it back.

Again making a mechanic to deal with this prevents the need for a guide, guides should again not be used as a gameplay mechanic.

06-01-2020 07:55 PM
Visitor
The guides are legitimately needed for some situations like underground rocks or items that can't be dealt with by a tribe leader.

There ARE legitimate uses for the guides, but to interfere with player interactions should NOT be one of them.

06-01-2020 08:55 PM
Xsyon Citizen
Ok, so what you say would require guides for some issues. Plus you have more issues.
Current way require guides for some issues.

Thus keep it in the current system. That simple enough?

I do not feel you need to change this system as it is likely to never happen, even when it does, the player who logged off/crashed etc sucks for them if you were to remove the guides out of it.

New system you are asking, would happen a lot more often. Cause a lot more issues.


I 100% agree guides should not be used for interactions with players unless needed. Then also try to keep those need times to the most limited amount of times.
I feel this issue is so rare and also the player who crashed/logged off's fault for allowing it to happen.

Really also if you look at it like this, some killed someone with a cart. Then drop a totem to "claim" the cart is really not even that bad. They have to put a ton of work into it. (Killing the player then building, using an alt to totem lock it, all while preventing the killed player from getting it back, then having to hold on to that spot for 2 weeks) There is a lot of ways the player who was killed and getting the cart trapped has to stop it from happening. Yes is it harder to kill someone that has a totem right on your cart? Yep. However, still not a major issue and one that player needs to overcome.
Also this is in extremely rare cases that doesn't need to have game breaking systems put into place to stop it.

06-02-2020 01:38 AM
Visitor
"Ok, so what you say would require guides for some issues. Plus you have more issues.
Current way require guides for some issues.

Thus keep it in the current system. That simple enough?"

I'm confused, what are the guides having to do if the game has a mechanic to remove the cart from the tribe area thus removing the possibility of people totem dropping carts?

There would be ZERO need for a guide with my suggestion.

Seems simple to me, but your treating me like I'm retarded for not "giving up and leaving things as it is" when you say "Thus keep it in the current system. That simple enough?"

With respect; you don't seem to understand.

06-02-2020 01:41 AM
Visitor
Thats the entire point of the suggestion; remove the need for guides to interfere.

If you can't cage or totem drop a cart than theres no need to get a guide to interfere, cuz the cart would always be outside of tribe lands, players would always be able to access the cart without needing to call a guide.

It would eliminate the mechanic of being able to cage so people don't even think about doing it, or feel robbed when a guide takes it back from them.

If the cart isn't blocking totems from being dropped than the problem you claim DOES NOT EXIST.

Again with respect you don't seem to be following what I'm saying or understanding; I think you should re read my last couple posts cuz you don't seem to be following the entire point of this; to remove the need for guides to interfere.

06-02-2020 01:47 AM
Visitor
You get even a few hundred players and you expect the ONE guide to deal with all this?

Your comments are both unhelpful and off subject.

"They have to put a ton of work into it. (Killing the player then building, using an alt to totem lock it, all while preventing the killed player from getting it back, then having to hold on to that spot for 2 weeks) "

Yes it takes a ton of work to drop a totem. Are you serious right now?

It takes a ton of work to kill someone in a area you cannot take damage in? Are you serious right now?

it takes a ton of work to prevent someone from getting their cart back? How? They can kill you while you cannot kill them, they can build around your cart and prevent you from getting it than they just need to sit on it for two weeks.

If this is "intended gameplay" FINE.

But if its NOT "intended gameplay" than the gameplay mechanics should be changed so its no longer possible to do it.

Is that simple enough for you?

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