Totems and how they should work.
issueid=1230 09-27-2011 10:07 PM
Visitor
Totems and how they should work.
Totems and how they should work.
First off let me say Im doing this for many reasons.

Ok totems they are everywhere. I have a vision of changing that, and allowing totems to help trade, economy and allow smaller more active tribes to control more area.

First off, I do not like the idea that totems take no resources to put down yet can claim resources. Also I do not like that to grow a totem you need more players even if they are inactive. Ive seen tribes of 100 people with 1 or 2 online controlling huge parts of the zone.

Now how I would vote to change it is this.

Key is to require totems to take resources, and need resources to keep "protecting" the area.

I think when you want to drop a totem it should first place a ghost totem down, this ghost totem would not protect anything, yet it would not allow anyone else to claim a totem in the area until that ghost totem is removed.

Ghost totems will be removed after % of the resources not put in. IE if you drop a 100 man totem it would require say 10000 units of resources. Ghost totems decay say normally in 48hours but if you drop in 500 units in (5%)of the resources it would extend the decay by 5% or 2.5 hours.

After you get all 100% of the resources needed to then you can click the create, and it will drop a real totem based on the one you picked for the ghost. This will last for 1 week. Every week you have to upkeep the totem. (25% of base cost). Which can be put into the totem and the totem eats up over time. You can also use this totem as a bank for storage.

Things used for resources. Bricks, Logs, Sand, rock, metal, cloth etc. Each would have to have a unit assigned to them.

What this does is mostly allows people to build on land based on needs or even expected growth, without them to just want to "zerg" more members in the tribe.

It will promote trade by removing these resources and maybe even hiring labor to help gather these resources.

Also if an area goes inactive, slowly the totem will eat itself. It should lose 10% of its range a week of not being filled on the resource upkeep. After 10 weeks it will disappear.
This will allow a few members to keep the candle going for a large tribe if they wish. Also allows totems in the world to be removed, if tribes just leave them. Also will help prevent people from dropping a totem without knowing what they are doing, it will also help prevent people from having alt accounts with totems just claiming an area for themselves.

Idea? Comments? Complains? etc
This issue is closed. No more replies may be made.
Issue Details
Issue Number 1230
Issue Type Feature
Project Suggestions
Category Unknown
Status Implemented
Priority Unknown
Suggested Version Unknown
Implemented Version (none)
Votes for this feature 34
Votes against this feature 6
Attachments 0
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)


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11-06-2011 11:23 AM
Xsyon Citizen
After reading this again from the weekly questions I'm not sure how I would like having to dump resources into my totems and keep up with 1k structures in my city

To me, that's upkeep enough just keeping up with structures decay'ing and always having to use the best quality mats to make our structures.

Tribes will be able to choose to collect tax (currency). In addition, buildings will decay so there will be a need for players to keep up their town.
I do agree there needs to be totem decay and structure decay, however I'm not sure if I like the idea of having to keep up with resources for my totem and my structures.

This entire system needs to be looked at very carefully.
 

11-06-2011 12:43 PM
Xsyon Citizen
KeithStone I understand your concern however, you are in one of the largest tribes with around 15% of your tribe active.

If you wanted to keep that size tribe going you should have to have more than 15% helping you.

I'm not sure how Xsyon plans to put it in, but I surely hope they change it so that inactive tribes will lose area control, and active tribes can gain them. Right now its best for a tribe to just randomly allow members to join and if they quit the game oh well because they still get more land control.

Plus this system will make it so that zergs will not have a huge advantage over active players in smaller groups. So smaller players can plan and choose how much they want to devote to holding area as can larger tribes.
 

11-06-2011 01:05 PM
Xsyon Citizen
I like this idea. It gives a continual reason to keep active and gather resources, it also provides a mechanism for removing inactive tribes from the game, and prevents the huge land grabs which are around at the moment from recurring.
 

11-10-2011 09:41 AM
Xsyon Citizen
I love the idea!!!
 

11-10-2011 06:32 PM
Xsyon Citizen
the upkeep could be administered as "deities requiring sacrifices to protect your area." if you fail to appease any deity your tribe will become overrun by monsters. the deities to whom you give sacrifices would determine your tribe's alignment. the size of the sacrifice would determine how much land you get and/or how long. different deities will require different sacrifices. the theme of the totem and tribe-related structures could be related to the deities worshipped by a tribe aswell.
 

11-12-2011 07:33 PM
Xsyon Citizen
definite yes
 

11-12-2011 09:43 PM
Xsyon Citizen
10 weeks for totems to disappear? I like it. Nice to see so many on board. Start the clock.

Toying with the idea of a less linear range drop. Maybe more like an inverse log graph. Steeper range drop in the first few weeks tapering/easing in the last few weeks. Still working on the math though, probably over thinking it.

Only problem I keep bumping my head against is the semi-casual player / homesteader. Go on vacation for a week or two and 20% of your land is gone, exposing your buildings and thus come back to things destroyed. Not as much a problem for large tribes since it's unlikely everyone leaves at once. Perhaps someone else already thought of a way to address that?
 

11-12-2011 10:28 PM
Xsyon Citizen
I was asked this before, I thought I posted it up there before.

I believe a good fix for that issue, is allow "Over stocking" at a higher cost. Meaning say it costs your tribe 1000 units a week. If you store more than 1000 units a week inside the totem, it will use up the resources at a 1 to 1 ratio per week. Then you have over stocking mode, which makes it use up extra. Maybe a 2 to 1 ratio per week. So if you stock it for 4 weeks, you would need 1000 for the first week, 2000 for the second week 4000 for the 3rd week etc.

This will make it so you can store resources in your totem, but at a very high cost.


Going off your idea Book, you could go off a "debt" system. Where the first 2 weeks are zero decay, but still building debt.
At the 3rd week you lose 10%, 4th week you lose 15%, 5th week you lose 25%, 6th week you lose 50%, 7th week you lose 75%, and 8th week you lose 100% something like that.

So if you are gone for 4 weeks and fill your totem with only 1 weeks worth of stuff, on the 3rd week you will own 3x the resources, and it will decay 10% if you dont pay it. But if you are gone for only 3 weeks and stocked it with 1 weeks worth of stuff you will owe 2x of stuff, but nothing will decay.
 

11-12-2011 11:13 PM
Xsyon Citizen
That is a very well fit idea for this game, would encourage teamwork, and group play.
 

11-29-2011 03:09 PM
Xsyon Citizen
After the new update to "resources" skill system. This idea would be even better for new players to able to help out and get skills/stats. Making trade more useful because of it.
 

12-01-2011 01:18 AM
Xsyon Citizen
Resource upkeep makes perfect sense.

From an immersion point of view it can be seen as basic upkeep, repairs, etc

From a game enhancing point of view it provides:

- A cost of ownership - it means people have to work to own space ingame
- A cost of inactivity - it's a way to both encourage activity, and to prevent inactive tribes owning vast areas of space
- A resource sink - all games need sinks, or the number of items in game is forever increasing until they have zero value. Game economies with no item sinks become non-viable.
- Potential conflict - two tribes nearby each other can PvP over space ownership through tribe expansion, which has a side effect of contention over local resources

Rogen :)
 

12-02-2011 02:08 AM
Xsyon Citizen
the whole idea of forcing me "or anyone" to gather resources to keep our small "lone wolf" tribes going is crap and if its implemented that way I'll probly stop playing, and it will be even harder to keep new players "not everyone wants to be some other tribes lackie/ slave labor". that said having tribe totems that degrade over time is a great mechanic just make it cost somthing like "praying" it's not somthing you would have to gather just an action you have to preform every so often...im already spending all my time gathering resources to level my crafting skills and spending huge amounts of time moving earth, i dont want on top of that to have to spend time gathering/ finding somthing else just to keep my small plot of land.

*Edit* and this same price could work for larger tribes, "require all tribe members to preform said chosen action, but make it so they can do it at anytime during the aloted time" If a tribe has 40 members but only 2 are active then the tribe would shrink to it's proper size because the other tribe members were not there to support it by "praying/ or even just make it a mantinace action, so people who dont like the idea of praying dont have to complain"

*2ed Edit* one thing that i notice as a huge problem is not just inactive one man tribes/ huge tribes with more then half inactive, but also the terraforming left behind by tribes that have moved...some form of "erosion" needs to be implimented to land that is not claimed by a totem...get rid of all the holes/ ditches left everwhere "true it is some what realistic...but its not enjoyable one bit"
 

12-02-2011 03:34 AM
Xsyon Citizen
Some valid points in there.

Praying = Resources. Just FYI. It doesnt have to be an item.

You dont have to gather the resources yourself. You can trade other things for it. Skilled trades and rarer items (like bones) would be traded to others who dont have the skills or didnt get the rare items. Think like this, you find a recipe. Well you are a skilled scavenger. You can trade that recipe or master QL items you gather scavenging to others for basic resources.

Basic resources as the main form of currency or economy in the game is very normal, and really will help in many ways. Think of new players. They can get skills up, and help tribes with gathering basic mats.
Other new "lonewolves" can gather basic resources to trade to tribes for good tools and weapons.
Other types of people are foresters that are able to plant master QL trees, or people willing to do other types of work, like bringing goods from point A to point B (for a price).

Right now there is no reason to gather basic resources, other than skilling up. What do you do after you skilled up? These totems should be done (in my opinion) by active players, not by # of accounts in the tribe at the time they are made.

You cant have radius growing or shrinking either over "who is active or not" because you make plans and built walls etc based on the idea of how much area you control. If this area gets too small even for 1 hour, you could lose 1000s of man hours. Not something tribes want to do.
 

12-02-2011 09:49 PM
Xsyon Citizen
yeah i get the idea, i dont like it...i dont want to have to go out and gather "resources/items" or be forced into trading with someone else "cus what happens when they dont want to trade, or theres no one clse to me" just so i can keep my plot of land...if im paying my monthly sub im due my plot of land :p

and DDT if it's not an "item" then how are you trading for it? "What do you do after you skilled up?" is a difrent matter alltogether dont try and make gathering basic resources the fix for this problem :p that would suck and just be a grind to keep your land.
 

12-02-2011 09:59 PM
Xsyon Citizen
You call it a grind, I call it playing the game and paying your dues to the world to keep that plot. Many games do this, its really quite normal. Now if they had contested totems, I see no reason to have dues needing to be paid.

You currently have the same problem with totems right now. People just drop them and it just sits there forever. Nothing helping anything. Just holding a spot that someone else could be using, playing the game.

I dont think it needs to be a "grind" heck, I dont think anything in the game should be a grind. Using a good econ system and other skills you can make it even quite fun to do it.

Your monthly sub doesnt give you the right to a plot of land, it gives you the right to play. It would be like me saying, I pay my monthly dues there for I shouldnt have to "grind" to have my skills. Heck what about decay of items? You pay your monthly dues, you going to be upset when items start to decay too? Like logs and baskets?
 

12-02-2011 10:02 PM
Xsyon Citizen
yeah ill be pissed if they decay is fast, in the real world it takes years for wood to decay, if it was well taken care of, and those inactive tribes arnt paying a monthly fee...so its not exactly the same :p

and do you call the rafting system "playing the game" cus i see it as a grind :p thats the kind of thing i dont wnt to see for keeping my tribe

if you think people would stick around just becaus they have to "gather resources" to keep ther tribes going...im in serious doubt of that
 

12-02-2011 10:05 PM
Xsyon Citizen
It doesnt take years for real wood to decay.

Try using 1 month old cut wood to make a great bow out of. Or cut boards that are straight. It decays just not like disappears.

First off, many people playing are not paying monthly fees. Even if EVERYONE were paying a monthly fee. I wouldnt be happy with 1 man tribes holding onto 200m totems just for paying 15$ a month. I guess, I dont like pay to win type of games.

Give me active players, playing actively in the world. Solo or in a tribe. Makes for a much better game to me. I guess that's why I like MMO's
 

12-02-2011 10:09 PM
Xsyon Citizen
you must be joking? you dont even use wood that freshly cut to make bows? have you made anything out of wood? you have to dry it over time "or have a kiln" and im not talking about "decay" in the sence that it shows age...im talking about my "wood" wall falling or disapearing in game.

you know i have two pieces of wood that are almost 90 years old "they were bench seats from a springs changing room so they were exposed to the eliments and water constantly...there cypress" so this idea of wood roting away with in months is BS, it all depends on its circumstance...if a tree falls in the woods and sits on the forest floor so bugs and weather can get to it sure in months it will just be mush. i cant beleve that you think that...my Anvils are on Oak stumps that are at least eleven years old...what a bunch of BS

and how dose keeping my 1 man tribe count as WINING?

and if people arnt paying then how are they playing? is there some trick/ loophole or exploit I dont know about...if so im gonna feel riped off.
 

12-02-2011 10:22 PM
Xsyon Citizen
My point is try using wood you freshly cut, or using wood you just left sitting out in the rain and sun to make a bow.
It isnt good for making things out of.

Wood decays in poor weather, and other bad conditions. Its not even just about wood. What about metal? other stuff. Heck even stone decays and has issues over time.
1 man 200m radius totems? Do I really need to explain why that's a problem?

About your 1 man totems "winning" well because people cant ever use those spots again, and how many people mess up the land. I would say its going to be causing problem as it already has. Past has shown this.

There is issues with subscriptions some people are not paying monthly. Xsyon knows about this and has commented on it.
 

12-02-2011 10:36 PM
Xsyon Citizen
oh, i see what you mean, yeah i wouldent choose freshly cut wood to make a bow, but still the early fortifacitions for places like the Roanoke Colony , and even viking era structures were made form "freshly cut" wood it just dosent decay like that...populated areas have hardly any "bugs" that eat or distroy the wood and if your just building a wall or palisade then stright wood dosent matter. and if were suposed to be getting useable wood for crafting then they should add the ability to "age/ dry" wood so we could make high quality things...instead of just making it dependant on skill and the level/ quality of the tree...

i dont know what the radius is of a one man totem "is it 200m" cus as my trib land is now...it's not big or too small, and if they fix the problem with unactive tribes then the idea that noone will e able to use that land again is debunked :p

and thats BS, why am i paying when others arnt >.< they need to fix that shit
 

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