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  1. #1

    05/16/2020 - Feedback Request - Creatures & Combat

    The Test Server is ready for what is hopefully the final round of testing and tweaking of the upcoming big creature and combat patch.

    All that is left to do is to balance variables and I think this patch will be ready to go! Of course, if any issues are uncovered, I’ll fix those first.

    First please review my previous post.

    Note: If you would like to test with the help of Guide who can spawn and adjust creature to test combat and AI against, please open a help ticket and let us know when you plan to be around.

    Here are some specific changes that need final testing:

    - Dead bodies should take 8 minutes to decay and disappear. This has been increased from 4 minutes and should give a bit more time for players to harvest creatures that die from old age. (I may increase this further for creatures that die naturally and not in combat)

    - Maximum age ‘legendary’ creatures can be given a name. If you are the first player to encounter a legendary creature you can name it and the name will stay. The name will also be announced in global chat.

    - A successful parry now stuns your opponent for 1 -2 seconds based on your parrying skill. Does this seem ok? Is the stun duration too short or too long?

    - Being stunned by a parry displays a buff during the stun time.

    - The parry skill now uses agility and dexterity (as requested).

    - Weapons apply different threat levels to creatures during combat, with blades applying the least threat and the larger picks and shovels applying the most threat. This should allow a player with a big weapon to tank while in a group fighting a large creature or mutant.

    - The dodge skill has been reintroduced to be useful. Dodge now can increase your side step and backwards movement speed while in combat. Full dodge skill should allow you to move at full speed in those directions while fighting.

    - You should be able to maneuver to cause your opposing creature to completely or partially miss their attack. Partially missed attacks from side stepping simply reduce the damage taken.

    - Your dodge skill increases when a creature either partially or fully misses their attack.

    - Creatures spin at a slower rate during combat so that you can potentially dodge them with side steps.

    - Bears are set with the potential for a ‘special attack’. You will see the bear stand up and roar if this is triggered. This special attack, if fully implemented, will do double damage but is easier to avoid. Is this desirable? Is this too easy to avoid? If this is something players like I can finish it and set it up properly for all creatures.

    Here are some general combat goals that I hope this patch achieves:

    - Small creatures should be easy to kill, even for new players.

    - Large regular creatures should be difficult but manageable to kill.

    - Old age and legendary mutants should be difficult and require a group of veteran players to kill.

    - All creatures that you attack should fight back. (If not let me know what specific creature did not attack back).

    - As creatures take damage there is a chance they will run. There is a greater chance for small and weak creatures to do so.

    - You should be able to turn and sprint away from a creature easily.

    - It should be difficult or impossible to simply turn and run away at your normal pace.

    - It should be impossible to simply back up to avoid attacks.

    Variables likely need to be adjusted for all of this. Please provide feedback on creatures that seem too easy or difficult based on these goals.

    If any of the above is not working as intended or seems unusual or undesirable, please let me know.

    Here are variables I can easily adjust:

    - Creature hit points
    - Creature attack ranges
    - Creature attack rates (time between attacks)
    - Creature base damage
    - Creature rotation speed during combat
    - Player weapons base damage
    - Player weapon ranges
    - Player weapon speeds (delay between attacks)
    - Duration of stun effects
    - Creature aggro and reactions. Do any creature reactions seem off?

    I have not adjusted these much yet as I would like feedback on all types of creatures. Please let me know if a creature seems too easy or too difficult based on my general goals or if you think any of the variables need adjustment for a specific creature or weapon type.

    All of this has tested well for me, but as this type of twitch combat is highly dependent on your location and latency I would like feedback on the functionality to see if I need to adjust speeds or ranges to make sure this all works as well as possible for all players.

    I will not adding any more features to this patch. My goal is to ensure these features and changes are working well and that variables are balanced enough for a public patch. Variable balance can continue after the public patches if needed.

    Last edited by Xsyon; 05-16-2020 at 11:49 PM.

  2. #2
    Wyry findings so far:

    My combat skill is 35.73 with picks.
    I attacked and killed a lesser raccoon and dissected it, then went a few steps away. Suddenly I was attacked by an animal which I nearly could not see because it was so small: an 8 hp rookie pine marten buck. Several small animals then attacked also as soon as I got close to them, even hamsters, cats and a 6 hp lesser hen without being attacked first.

    I logged in with my second toon, combat skill is 25.08 with picks. Without using any weapon I approached the 6 hp hen and its aggro increased to nearly 100 so it attacked me, too. Question: Why do small creatures attack quicker on simple approach than bigger animals?

    With that second toon, I saw a bear half inside and half outside of a wall. When I approached, the bear came through the wall and killed me (male black bear cub with about 140 hp)
    After reviving, I went back to that wall (war server, zone 863, x206 z814, where I knew that another bear was outside of the wall. When I approached the wall, he also came in (elder greater black bear sow). After a while, on the opposite wall of the tribe, both bears stood looking outside. When I approached the bear sow, it started (as expected) attacking me, when I went on a boulder the bear lost interest and went back to the wall. He walked a bit along the wall, then suddenly was outside and stuck in a boulder (zone 863, x585 z827)

    When I tried to use the scrapper fortress gates in the east and west walls in this tribe (I am member) I could open them but was unable to walk through them. I saw however walking a mutant squirrel through the closed(!!) gate as if it was open.

    I could open and walk through a scrapper fortress gate in the south wall without problem. But this one seems to be the only one which works normal. What is the difference between that gate in the south wall and the other gates?

    I re-checked with the gates on the current PVP server and there they work as expected, so it must be a problem of the copy on the test server.

    .... hmmm, I cannot post attachments, so I will send the text with screenshots via ticket system ...

  3. #3
    I patched a fix for the collision issue through gates. Basically what was happening is that I increased the player's collision box to solve the issue of players being able to see through walls in 1st person view combat mode. I had increased it a bit too much.

    If you find any gates that are still a problem, please post a location for me to check.


  4. #4
    I will adjust creature aggression variables and will post when they've been adjusted.


  5. #5
    I tested being able to see through walls again and I was unable to reproduce being able to stick my head through a wall anymore on the test server by using hiding or running into walls.

    I'm not sure this matters, you can still do it by swimming into a wall, however, this is such a rare situation that I'm not sure it needs to be addressed.

    My main question about this tho is if unit collision is attached to the player hitbox? Like will this make people easier to hit with weapons? Or will it make people harder to hit with lower range weapons like knives due to not being able to get as close?

    I'll do more testing later when I have more time.

  6. #6
    fought a adolesent lesser coyte bitch and I was able to suscessfully walk backwards and dodge hits the same way as previously.

    Do the coyotes still run out of energy? Do they have run/walk still? Could that be it?

  7. #7
    I've restarted the Test Server.

    Regarding issues so far:

    1) Small creatures initiating attacks. I believe that was happening due to a mechanism forcing creatures to fight if they can't find a direct path to run away from you. I've fixed that so that only more aggressive creatures have this behavior.

    If any small and non aggressive creatures still attack without first being attacked, please let me know.

    2) Creatures getting stuck on a wall or boulder. I need to reproduce this to fix it so I'm still working on this one.

    3) Not being able to pass through gates. This should be fixed now.

    4) "is unit collision is attached to the player hitbox?" No, I adjusted the collision for the player vs buildings only. It shouldn't affect your hitbox for combat.

    5) Being able to walk backwards to avoid attacks. I will work on tweaking this tonight. It's because of the dodge skill changes that I implemented. What is your dodge skill currently at?

    That's all so far. Primarily I adjusted creature reactions as notes in #1 above.


  8. #8
    I have 5 dodging, have not invested anything into it yet.

    I DO have 99+ running tho so that could possibly be the problem... but someone with 99+ running may not be the best person to balance to game towards for most of the smaller animals... should be balanced towards 25-50 for lower running/newer players, while things like elder creatures and big mutants should for sure be balanced for a 99 run.

    I mean, I should be able to dodge a marmot easier than a bear with 99 running.

  9. #9
    Tested with Checker_Magga
    Running Skill: 14.95
    Combat Skill: 25.20

    1) Small animals now ran away when I went close to them. So now they act as intended.

    2) A Mule Deer in zone 863, x510 z714 was able to attack me through a limestone wall. Maybe you could reproduce it if you check these coordinates?

    Some of the animal names confused me a bit:
    Adult Veteran Male Golden Retriever Pup (84 hp) => adult, veteran, but still a pup?
    Senior Greater Female Mule Deer Fawn => senior greater fawn?
    Elder Veteran Male Pine Marten Kit => veteran kit?
    Young Adult Lesser Pullet (8 hp) => adult pullet?

    I approached an Adult Lesser Rottweiler Bitch (69 hp), it turned towards me, then went close to me but did nothing else. I walked away, it still followed me very close (Reaction: Go To Target) and while we walked a bit more the reaction "go to target" kept unchanged all the time, but the aggro increased slowly until it was very high and the Rottweiler started attacking. Is this behaviour as intended?

  10. #10
    Please check the fortress gate at zone 863, x191 z729, it still refuses to let me through.

    Please check also the fortress gate at zone 863, x678 z680, it blocks me when I want to pass not exactly in the middle of the gate but a bit closer to the door parts (all other fortress gates let me pass even close to the door parts).

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