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  1. #21
    I think most creatures are running from ddt due to the "fight or flight" mechanic since hes 350+hps he could be causing these creatures to auto run due to flight over fight.

    I say this since my main character has alot of hps and they run from him, while my wifes character only has 80hps and they dont seem to run as much from her.

    So this makes me think that balancing every creature in the game to someone who has 350hp will make it so that lower level players will never see creatures run from them under any situation if its balanced to only run if someone has hundreds of hps.

    With that being said, I don't think ANY creature should have under 50hp, being able to 1hit any creature should not be the goal.

  2. #22
    I think weapon damage is fine where its at and would be a mistake to change before or instead of balancing creatures.

    Creature balancing is one thing, but to try and change weapon balance THAN change creature balance is going to make the issue more complex than it needs to be by making two variables instead of one.

    If theres only one variable to work with, we can more easily find that sweet spot that feels balanaced, than once all the creatures are balanaced, we could think about raising or lowering the player damage in response to make them stronger or weaker as needed to the balanaced creatures.

    "If I set up charged attacks to increase damage as before, I'm stuck with the same problem as before: Creatures will be balanced based on players using charged attacks always. New players won't use charged attacks and will find combat too hard.

    Maybe I need to do something to make the charging up more obvious to new players, but I'm not sure what.

    Can any of you recommend another similar game that used charged attacks? If I could see what other survival games do in this case I could better adjust things to match what new players have come to expect."

    Why not make power attacks instead of charged attacks?

    Thats how "other games" do it, you have a quick attack (that we already have) and we have a slower more powerful attack thats generally your power attack.

    You can even look at real life to see the same thing, in the UFC for example with people really fighting each other there is a huge difference between say a haymaker and a jab, the jab is quick, accurate and to the point, while the haymaker is long, looping and takes more time to hit the spot but if it does it would knock you out in a way the jab never had a chance to do.

    So my suggestion here is to make a swing that is half speed, but +50% dmg, I think twice damage would be too much and would make people only use power attacks in the hope of getting a hit.

    I agree, charged attack is only ever going to be either "too weak to ever use" or "too powerful and thus everything need to be balanced off charged attacks"

    I think the entire game should phase away from loading bars or charged bars. If you want a attack to be slower or take more time, just make the animation slower and change the values, instead of us watching a loading bar that honestly is really unfun, loading bars suck for combat.
    Last edited by Static; 06-08-2020 at 12:01 PM.

  3. #23
    I agree that new players don't really have a mechanic to learn the combat system.

    This brings me back to the suggestion of NPC's in the game to cover stuff like this, you could have someone duel a NPC as one of the quests like what happens in "kingdom come deliverance" in your home city before it gets raided/burned down there is a fenced off area where you duel the blade master who gives you the basics of combat.

    Basically what he does is he allows you to attack him, only letting you pass to the next part if you correctly hit him with the right action that hes asking for.

    With this you would request a player use's every directional hit, showing off the combat of the game early to new players, instead of sending them off to have their first combat experience be with a creature.

    I really think founders isle should be a real city with npc's that show you how to do each craft/skill, not a baron dead town that people get lost in.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Xsyon View Post
    For the Mason Door or PvP, do you mean the Scrapper Fortress Gate?

    Regarding the sunken walls, I set up the code to deliberately ignore blocking from walls so far sunken into the ground. I could adjust that, but eventually I would unblock walls like that again as I improve path-finding through buildings.

    In the old system, walls were basically infinite in height (which was not how I intended them to be, but that's how it ended up being coded for simplicity back then).
    I think restoring old code only to bring it back to the way it is now isn't a great idea.

    I think the only reason why this seems weird to a player is being so used to it being that way for the past decade, this change needs to happen and makes sense, something sunken into the ground should not prevent passing above ground, I agree with this change and don't think it should be reversed to have infinity height.
    Last edited by Static; 06-08-2020 at 12:19 PM.

  5. #25
    I think the fight or flight mechanic should be tied better to who they are fighting, I also think it should be balanced off who is being expected to fight that creature.

    For example if a 50hp rabbit is fighting a 50hp player the rabbit should be as mean as if a 200hp player was fighting a 200hp deer.

    Meaning that when a 200hp deer hits a 200hp player it should be taking the same PERCENTAGE of hps roughly as the 50hp rabbit attacking the 50hp player.

    These are not accurate numbers but give you an idea of what I'm talking about.

    To say this another way with inaccurate numbers, if a deer does roughly 20-30hps dmg at 200hp than the rabbit should perhaps do 5-7.5 damage at 50hps since thats the same 10-15% of the total hps.

    This scaling would make sense upwards to a point, since a 450hp bear could possibly do 45-65 dmg and that seems pretty balanced to me so I think balancing them like this so that your trying to match who is attacking them would be the best way to universally balance all the "basic creatures". Armor ratios would reduce this damage even more to the point where I feel that bears wouldn't do that much damage to people who have proper armor.

    I don't think we should make endgame creatures easier (bears to mutants) to better cater to new weak players, this ruins endgame hunting for players who actually need that challenge to stay interested in the game. I think even a basic bear should be outside of a new players hunting ability for a while unless they out number it and take it down like a mutant boss creature.

    Now the mutant creatures are a whole different bag of wurms, cuz they are supposed to be legendary creatures, boss creatures, that you need multiple people to fight, so I don't think balancing them off the expected players hp being the same as the creature who is going to fight them is a good idea for the mutants, since all mutant creatures have more hps than even ddt, sark or myself, so the damage would have to be rebalanced for those ones, possibly only being 5-7.5-10% instead of 10-15%

    There needs to be a concreted plan on balancing, not just randomly changing things to peoples opinion as they give their opinion, cuz every player is going to have a different opinion due to their level of strength/damage and max hps, this means if you balance it to one players suggestion it may not be balanced to other players.. so there needs to be a universal plan on how to balance this instead of just changing things randomly, thats what my suggestion here is attempting to do.
    Last edited by Static; 06-08-2020 at 12:35 PM.

  6. #26
    Fought a "adult veteran labrador dog" and I two hit it, it didn't feel right.

    Also it seems like after you kill a creature, the hp bar is gone from the top of the screen under its name so I actually have no idea how much hps this dog had.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Static View Post
    I think most creatures are running from ddt due to the "fight or flight" mechanic since hes 350+hps he could be causing these creatures to auto run due to flight over fight.

    I say this since my main character has alot of hps and they run from him, while my wifes character only has 80hps and they dont seem to run as much from her.

    So this makes me think that balancing every creature in the game to someone who has 350hp will make it so that lower level players will never see creatures run from them under any situation if its balanced to only run if someone has hundreds of hps.

    With that being said, I don't think ANY creature should have under 50hp, being able to 1hit any creature should not be the goal.
    Totally disagree with a lot of this post.

    1) I'm not doing the testing with 350+ HP toon. Also did it with more than 1 toon.
    2) I think some animals for sure should be killed in 1 hit, not only that I think they should be killed in 1 hit from a new player with low skills.
    You have to remember not every char will have 80+STR, or using high QL weapons. Using a 25QL weapon makes for attacks very weak. Having 50HP can kill a LOT of new players, as many start out with only 30 to 40HP.

    I see no reason a baby hamster should have 50HP or more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Static View Post
    Creature balancing is one thing, but to try and change weapon balance THAN change creature balance is going to make the issue more complex than it needs to be by making two variables instead of one.
    Weapon damage was already changed in the patch. Thus it's not like it is balanced. Yes I see no reason why you can't change more than 1 thing to balance the whole.



    Quote Originally Posted by Static View Post
    Why not make power attacks instead of charged attacks?

    Thats how "other games" do it, you have a quick attack (that we already have) and we have a slower more powerful attack thats generally your power attack.
    I agree with this.
    I think it's easier for people to understand as most games already use a system like this. I also think it would make combat seem more active.

    Quote Originally Posted by Static View Post
    I think the entire game should phase away from loading bars or charged bars. If you want a attack to be slower or take more time, just make the animation slower and change the values, instead of us watching a loading bar that honestly is really unfun, loading bars suck for combat.
    I agree with this.
    Last edited by MrDDT; 06-08-2020 at 01:46 PM.

  8. #28
    I'd rather see a rat with low damage and 50hp than a rat with decent damage that you can 1 hit.

    How does a player learn anything from 1 hitting a rat or hamster? Spoiler; they don't.

    You need low end creatures (rats, hamsters, rabbits) to be as strong to new players as a deer or bear is to endgame players.

    This means 1hits just isn't a good idea, theres no combat to be had if you just run up and 1hit.

    If a new player with a 25q shovel is doing around 10 dmg per hit with low skill than I really don't think 50hp's is too much.

    But that does bring up a interesting subject; it shouldn't be balanced only by hps, it should also be balanced verse the expected skill level of the play who should be fighting it.

    As in, the hamster should prob be balanced the weakest, while a rat a lil stronger, maybe a squirrel being a lil stronger than that and a rabbit a lil stronger than that. So you could aim the hamster and rat at brand new players with 25q weapon and 5 skill, while you could argue that a rabbit for example could be more balanced towards 25 skill and 40q weapon just to throw out some random numbers.

    I totally understand not everybody is going to have endgame equipment or their skills maxed, but no creatures should be balanced for that anyways aside of mutants and bears imo, those are the only creatures that should be balanced for people like you me and sark... everything else should be balanced for who is expected to fight that creature, meaning rat would be lowest skill and weapon, while bear or mutants would be expecting you have the highest end equipment.

  9. #29
    Instead of going case by case and saying "I personally feel this is too strong or too weak in compairson to my character" I am trying to get to a core root way of sorting out the balance so its balanced to EVERYBODY not just the people who fought that particular creature and gave a opinion, cuz those opinions will differ depending on the stats of your character.

    Thats why I'm saying there needs to be a standard here and attempting to come up with one.

  10. #30
    Lets be honest here, if you and me and both 1hit a 50hp rat or hamster, how is this a problem?

    I mean you think people should be able to 1hit a hamster or rat, but the reality is we can both do it even with my suggestion.

    The only people who wouldn't be able to 1hit them is NEW players and thats a GOOD THING, cuz they would need to fight it in combat instead of just walking up and getting a effortless kill that will teach them nothing and make them disappointed in combat.

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