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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Static View Post
    For example if you had multiple directional attacks from creatures the same way as a player did, than you would have to block from different directions instead of just the same head on direction.

    This would mean you would have to parry from different directions than the same straight on direction.

    If you had different attacks, possibly a power attack from creatures that is slower but more powerful that you dont want to parry or dodge, would force you to change tactics and move out of the way instead of trying to parry or block.

    All of these would help add life to combat and make it feel less like a soul less mmo from 20 years ago where the creature runs up to you and you both spam attacks till one of you dies.
    Some of this is already in game.

    Creatures already attack in directions. You just can't see it to know which direction the attack. So its guesswork.

    Dodge is equal to "getting out of the way". They are exactly the samething. Dodge skill just lets to move faster based on your skill AGI weight and running skill.

    i agree having you spam a skill til one of you dies is boring. I'm not asking for that. I'm asking for special skills where you use them in a case by case to use tactics. Like snaring a target you know is about to turn and run.

  2. #42
    I think the word broken is not good here, I think a better term is boring.
    sure thats a good way to put it, boring.

    The fact theres no life or differences in your interaction makes it boring. The fact it doesn't seem alive, but rather just a basic scripted creature that just runs directly at you and spams 1 attack till it dies makes it feel like a bad mmo from 20 years ago.

    Like the creature doesn't dodge or move or anything, it just spams 1 attack till death.

  3. #43
    i agree having you spam a skill til one of you dies is boring. I'm not asking for that. I'm asking for special skills where you use them in a case by case to use tactics.
    I disagree that these are different things.

    Asking for additional spam skills till someone dies is not changing anything, its taking the exact same problems and adding extra spam skills.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Static View Post
    Heres another video to watch group combat

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nYxroMaUpw

    This is a great example of what Static is talking about Mount and Blade (in this case Last Oasis) style combat

    https://youtu.be/3nYxroMaUpw?t=1760


    I put it at a timestamp so you can see.

    You have the attacks are coming at directions, you can see with the white/red bars popping up. You can then see the player being attack is moving his weapon to parry/block the attack to either left or right side based on the white/red bars.


    This is more skillful interactive combat that Static is talking about. I agree, very close to Mount and Blade (I didnt see all the options M&B has, as Last Oasis is more basic combat).

    I think this combat is more fun than Xsyon by a good bit and exactly what Static is talking about.



    I would like to note that as I agree this would be better than Xsyon's current combat, I feel that special attack powers would be the better way to go.



    I forgot to say
    @Static
    This system is already in for PVP in Xsyon. So what you are asking for in PVP, is already in place.
    Last edited by MrDDT; 06-13-2020 at 02:52 PM.

  5. #45
    Yes thats my whole point, this type of combat of last oasis is not anymore complex than what xsyon is... Could easily turn xsyon into a combat system like this... this is really fun back n forth style combat.

    So instead of turning it into what is obviously a extremely fun gameplay style like last oasis, if you turn it into WoW instead, you'll have removed this type of gameplay and made it more about skill spamming and avoiding combat till the cooldown of your skills comes back up again.

  6. #46
    I forgot to say
    @Static
    This system is already in for PVP in Xsyon. So what you are asking for in PVP, is already in place.
    Sure this system is in place for PvP since players vs other players uses the directional combat.

    However, if you watched the first video I linked, it shows the player fighting a monkey that is armed with a stick, than later, a armored monkey with a spiked club that was alot stronger and better at combat....

    "better at combat" means that he is better able to make use of directional attacks and directional blocks, this has NOTHING to do with the damage or health like seems to be the main focus in balance so far on xsyon.

    The biggest problems I see are:

    1)Currently in xsyon, all creatures do not attempt to block or dodge attacks.

    2)All attacks come from the same animation as well so all attacks look the same and thus all attacks get the same directional parry response since it always seems to come from the same point.

    3)They spam the same attack/action without any change in action or attacks. Meaning they don't attempt to do anything else but attack, theres no circle around the player, theres no movement at all aside of running STRAIGHT at you.

    4)They spam the same attack. Meaning they don't have a 2ndary or 3d attack to cause you to react differently, this means you always react the same to every attack cuz every attack is the same.

    These are huge glaring problems with combat atm and adding WoW style skill spam will NOT solve ANY of these issues if the creature still feels like a script instead of feeling alive with a level of interaction that forces you to think about your actions.
    Last edited by Static; 06-13-2020 at 03:07 PM.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Static View Post
    Sure this system is in place for PvP since players vs other players uses the directional combat.

    However, if you watched the first video I linked, it shows the player fighting a monkey that is armed with a stick, than later, a armored monkey with a spiked club that was alot stronger and better at combat....

    "better at combat" means that he is better able to make use of directional attacks and directional blocks, this has NOTHING to do with the damage or health like seems to be the main focus in balance so far on xsyon.

    The biggest problems I see are:

    1)Currently in xsyon, all creatures do not attempt to block or dodge attacks.

    2)All attacks come from the same animation as well so all attacks look the same and thus all attacks get the same directional parry response since it always seems to come from the same point.

    3)They spam the same attack/action without any change in action or attacks. Meaning they don't attempt to do anything else but attack, theres no circle around the player, theres no movement at all aside of running STRAIGHT at you.

    4)They spam the same attack. Meaning they don't have a 2ndary or 3d attack to cause you to react differently, this means you always react the same to every attack cuz every attack is the same.

    These are huge glaring problems with combat atm and adding WoW style skill spam will NOT solve ANY of these issues if the creature still feels like a script instead of feeling alive with a level of interaction that forces you to think about your actions.


    So what you are saying is that PVP combat in Xsyon is currently fine? It's just creature combat where the problem is?

    Where as I feel like PVP combat in Xsyon is boring, and parry is next to impossible to use due to ping/server issues inherent in MMOs
    Which is why I believe that you can use keybind able special attacks that increase the tactics and fun without issues of ping. I'm still not sure why you think that WOW style special skills are not fun. I can see how you can think they are less skillful as you do not need to react in a split second, but I still think they are fun.

  8. #48
    Instead of continuously pointing out whats wrong, heres a possible solution I thought of;

    What if we mirror'd the creature animation? Like for example a bear takes its one paw and swings it across from the one side, what if you mirror's the animation so he does the same thing with the opposite paw?

    This would give you a left and a right directional attack from the creature and would be at least a good basic starting point towards making creatures feel alive and less predictable.

    Maybe thats a good word to focus on, predictable, creatures should not be predictable, you should have to watch to see what they are going to do, not be able to predictably act before they even act.

    like for example, if I'm fighting a bear, I know that if I parry a hit, than hit the bear myself, I have to automatically put parry up after I finish my hit cuz I'm predicting that the bear will hit me again with the same attack, from the same direction... so I'm not really fighting the bear, I'm predicting what the bear is going to do cuz theres no other option for it to do anything else.

    If the bear had other options for attacks, than I wouldn't be able to predict exactly where the attack is coming from, and the correct response, before he even starts making the attack.

    I hope this better explains the overall problems, I for sure agree saying "broken" is vague and doesn't help alot.

  9. #49
    So what you are saying is that PVP combat in Xsyon is currently fine? It's just creature combat where the problem is?
    No I'm not saying that at all.

    I'm saying swing speed is off and needs to be re-looked at for balance.

    If you watch last oasis, their swing speeds are wildly different than xsyon and this leads to different combat due to that.

    I'm saying pvp is more balanced and less lifeless than pve verse creatures.

    Meaning combat feels broken to people cuz they fight creatures more often than other players.

    The goal should be to make creatures feel as if your fighting a alive, thinking, breathing player, currently that is not the case at all.

    Where as I feel like PVP combat in Xsyon is boring, and parry is next to impossible to use due to ping/server issues inherent in MMOs
    For the millionth time, you should try pvp again than since this ping/server issue your talking about isn't a problem currently.

    Again; the problem has been solved by rewriting the creature migration patch to the point where jordi is moving forward with ranged combat.

    Do you know much about server lagg and ranged combat? I would think not if your saying melee combat will have lagg that ranged combat won't be effected by, its a oxymoron, you understand this right?

    If melee combat had such lagg issues, ranged combat would be impossible.

    Again, I disagree with you that there isn't enough time or that lagg is too high to react, I have zero problems doing it even with the current system, again I'm obviously better at combat games than you since I enjoy and play them, so I don't feel we should balance a game towards people who dont play combat games or don't enjoy combat games when we're talking about combat balance.

    We should be making combat something people enjoy doing, whats the point of doing anything less?
    Last edited by Static; 06-13-2020 at 03:19 PM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Static View Post
    No I'm not saying that at all.

    I'm saying swing speed is off and needs to be re-looked at for balance.

    If you watch last oasis, their swing speeds are wildly different than xsyon and this leads to different combat due to that.

    I'm saying pvp is more balanced and less lifeless than pve verse creatures.

    Meaning combat feels broken to people cuz they fight creatures more often than other players.

    The goal should be to make creatures feel as if your fighting a alive, thinking, breathing player, currently that is not the case at all.
    Well, I agree with you that creatures are pretty boring.

    However, I disagree with you that PVP in Xsyon is fine, even if you change swing speeds.

    Anyways, I'm going to leave it at that. I still think Xsyon should add in special moves for creatures, and players. Parry and Dodge are good currently, but I feel combat to me is just left clicking over and over. PVP is lack luster because slowing the speed down would need to be balanced for much higher pings making combat a breeze for someone with low ping but hard for someone with high ping.
    Special powers are more interactive for everyone and as Xsyon is not based on PVP, I think more fun.

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