What is stopping this....

[jessebfox]

Ciik wrote:

jessebfox wrote:
It can learn from the mistakes of DF, yes. It can also learn from the mistakes of pretty much any other game. That doesn't mean a comparison should be made. Having played MO and Xsyon I can see his analogy of STO to Eve. It's not dead on but it gets the point across

Yes, and yes, comparisons are a means to accentuate a point of reference, as with anything.

No, I dont want a Wurm, RM, or Fallen Earth where the emphasis is on PvE, crafting and sim city building, while completely ignoring the player-centric ecosystem of player-driven conflict, and suspenseful, non-scripted, surprising player-influenced interaction.[/quote]

I think you will be disappointed then. Of course things can change, but the way everything works, the emphasis and engaging part of the game is the crafting and sim city building. Conflict, based on the few fights i participated in, will be dry and uninteresting, meaning it won't engage most people who will spend their in game time doing other things.

That aspect is far below what I personally hoped for, personally. Other things were different though. It is simply not going to be a combat centric game, there is far more thought and complexity put into other aspects of the game, and combat is almost an afterthought.

[jessebfox]

btw i certainly would not say roma victor had its focus on pve. but it was such a long arse run to the barbarian areas, and the combat so uninteresting, that pvp lost it's attraction very quickly. sparring matches in the gladiator arena were enough to get you bored of the combat fast.

remember, this is all me stating my opinion. Someone else could see things entirely differently.

[Ciik]

jessebfox wrote:

Ciik wrote:

jessebfox wrote:
It can learn from the mistakes of DF, yes. It can also learn from the mistakes of pretty much any other game. That doesn't mean a comparison should be made. Having played MO and Xsyon I can see his analogy of STO to Eve. It's not dead on but it gets the point across

Yes, and yes, comparisons are a means to accentuate a point of reference, as with anything.

No, I dont want a Wurm, RM, or Fallen Earth where the emphasis is on PvE, crafting and sim city building, while completely ignoring the player-centric ecosystem of player-driven conflict, and suspenseful, non-scripted, surprising player-influenced interaction.

I think you will be disappointed then. Of course things can change, but the way everything works, the emphasis and engaging part of the game is the crafting and sim city building. Conflict, based on the few fights i participated in, will be dry and uninteresting, meaning it won't engage most people who will spend their in game time doing other things.

That aspect is far below what I personally hoped for, personally. Other things were different though. It is simply not going to be a combat centric game, there is far more thought and complexity put into other aspects of the game, and combat is almost an afterthought.

Well,I hope not, as open-world pvp, as opposed to free-for-all pvp is a feature of this game. If it turns out to be a bait and switch, I'll move and leave the small minority of players to their crafting, and make sure that any mention of this game as a sandbox is corrected.

[JetJon]

ok just to toss in my two pence

i worked with Jordi in RV, there was a test group near the end to try and fix some of the many issues that we were having with the Client. over time we started to actually get it smoothed out, enough so that it was clear that the server code was FUBAR. once that happened we started to see the leadership dissolve in the end Jordi moved on.

while all of this was happening, the testers were getting closer and closer to the team, at least, the client team. it turned into a war with the lead to get fixes published and make the game playable. this is why Jordi left, once he left, most of the test team jumped ship as well.

when i learned that Jordi had a team together to build a new game, and do it right. well i knew i had to be in on it. of course my joining the military at the time prevented me from being too much a part. but now i can be, and i come in to see things just the way i imagined them to be.

i said all of this so that i can say this, Jordi and the rest of his team will spare no expense to make this game, they will make it right, they will make it happen. they will listen to the community, and they will work hard to fix issues as they come up. the content will be updated on schedule, and the bugs fixed before it is updated. the gameplay will be that of experienced players, not egghead historians, it will be balanced and fair.

the game will be well built, the game will thrive.

i say this on the authority of experience working with Jordi, and i trust him to do right by his players, because he understands what we are asking for.

[jessebfox]

Ciik: Why would it be bait and switch? How many times is pvp, open pvp, and sandbox listed in the features page of the game?

It is open pvp as they said. They never said that was the focus of the game though, and it is clear in the product.

What sandbox means to you and others apparently is different. To many people sandbox does not have to include pvp at all. Just non linear gameplay. To each their own, but it doesn't mean you are right or they are.

JetJon: I have been impressed with a lot of what Jordi has done so far, and especially the way he has handled things. Your story makes sense in that this seems very much, from a programming/developing view, his baby and he is going to do things a certain way while, for the most part, ignoring outside influence to do it as the gaming corporate world would want it done. A lot of respect has been earned in my book which is why I paid for a pre-order where i normally wouldn't. It may turn out to not be a game for me (or I may love it, it's still hard to say from this stage) but the kind of outside the box thinking he has done thus far I wanted to reward.

I am curious to see how he handles the vocal minority and their opinions vs the silent majority. It's very hard to read what the silent majority wants, while the vocal minority always think they represent everyone. I am sure he has a lot of statistics on people's actions being recorded but it's hard to tell why people are doing what they are doing and what would make them happy. One worrying thing for me is that the dev crew seems to use the forums as a method of communicating with all their users. Updating the website is slow, and sending out emails extremely rare for conveying information. I am sure he knows that the vast minority of people use forums for the games they play, it really shouldn't (imho) be used as a method for conveying information. For example, the delays that have happened. Everyone who pre ordered should have received emails with updates. A forum shouldn't have to be checked.

tldr:
ciik: combat is boring, no bait and switch, look up "sandbox" term
jetjon: jordi rocks, but isn't perfect. He deserves my money but the jury is out on how the game turns out to be.

[Ciik]

jessebfox wrote:

.. look up "sandbox" term.

Im not getting in a pissing match for post count. So dont try to educate me on sandbox when I should have sand, a pale and shovel, but cant swing my shovel at you and take your pale; thats not a sandbox.

[Khors]

Lest I be duped, I dont think that I'm the one that's going to be disappointed, I hope. Player-driven, town & housing construction, environment deformation and building, deep player-driven crafting and everything, including open world interaction. I thoroughly enjoy the concept of this game.


11.) Will there be PvP?

Yes, the game is open PVP with consequences and a sparring / training combat mode. In the early Prelude towns will be safe zones.

16.) Can I build anywhere or are is it restricted to certain locations?

You can build anywhere, but only tribal areas are currently safe zones.

Prelude has more safety nets, and certainly tribal areas, which is to be expected. I should expect to have to be cautious when I venture further for more valuable resources, or at least I hope I'm not coddled with extraordinary oversight from harm at the hands of another player.

And with the consequence system in-place as the prelude progresses, here's to hoping that the consequences aren't so harsh as to really alienate and drive away players that are pvpve enthusiasts that dont define pvp with switches, arenas, sparring, duals or some invitation system.

[Jadzia]

Khors wrote:

Lest I be duped, I dont think that I'm the one that's going to be disappointed, I hope. Player-driven, town & housing construction, environment deformation and building, deep player-driven crafting and everything, including open world interaction. I thoroughly enjoy the concept of this game.


11.) Will there be PvP?

Yes, the game is open PVP with consequences and a sparring / training combat mode. In the early Prelude towns will be safe zones.

16.) Can I build anywhere or are is it restricted to certain locations?

You can build anywhere, but only tribal areas are currently safe zones.

Prelude has more safety nets, and certainly tribal areas, which is to be expected. I should expect to have to be cautious when I venture further for more valuable resources, or at least I hope I'm not coddled with extraordinary oversight from harm at the hands of another player.

And with the consequence system in-place as the prelude progresses, here's to hoping that the consequences aren't so harsh as to really alienate and drive away players that are pvpve enthusiasts that dont define pvp with switches, arenas, sparring, duals or some invitation system.

There are no consequences for killing evil players, so people who like PvP can enjoy it without any problem, the tribe zones of evil tribes won't be safe zones during Prelude.

The description is not totally clear when it talks about tribes in war, but as far as I understand there won't be negative consequences for killing enemy tribe members.

[Khors]

There-in lies the misleading then. And a flaw with this game, perhaps. Do people who dont like to craft, are they going have some purple dino hand them a house or town?

That's so silly, not you, but the notion that someone is impervious to conflict from another player, anywhere and anytime, just because that player doesn't like it.

So I go back to my original thought, that if this development team is trying to use such a sandboxy draw statement as open-world interaction and doesn't deliver, but protects one class of player everywhere and all the time, then they'll get the minuscule & insignificant subscription base their looking for.

[Jadzia]

Khors wrote:

There-in lies the misleading then. And a flaw with this game, perhaps. Do people who dont like to craft, are they going have some purple dino hand them a house or town?

That's so silly, not you, but the notion that someone is impervious to conflict from another player, anywhere and anytime, just because that player doesn't like it.

So I go back to my original thought, that if this development team is trying to use such a sandboxy draw statement as open-world interaction and doesn't deliver, but protects one class of player everywhere and all the time, then they'll get the minuscule & insignificant subscription base their looking for.

I'm sorry I think I don't understand your post totally...that purple dino hand thing is confusing

Tribe zones are safe zones during early Prelude, but outside of them anyone can be attacked anytime. There are consequences for attacking neutral or good players, but the attack is always possible.