The Case For WURM-like PK Protection

[frogeye]

I agree totally that XSYON should be - in my eyes - a more constructive and playing-together game to make 'sense' through seeing things grow. If I'm watching the tribe-list that seems to be, besides some few, the main goal of them too.
For myself I have to say that I'm tired of all those PVP games, they are just a waste of time und there is no end in the blood-circle. Even outlaws in 'red' aren't made wise and continue their silly path, making it neccessary to always watch over my shoulder, to buy protecting-stuff not to loose points. In a game where there is no sense than killing mobs this may be okay though, because 'fighting' is the essential thing there on this or that way.
In a game where building cities and communities and an infrastructure is the main part that would be annoying just like in real world where you want to build a house and concentrate on this job and you have to carry a shotgun always with you....
On the other side I know that the existence of the risk that you possibly are attacked and that there are enemies either NPCs or humans gives the whole something prickling, what is keeping you 'awake' . So I have no idea if there is THE path to how should PVP be implemented.
One thing is clear to conclude: If 'constructing' players are forced to begin again and again from scratch they will leave the game very fast and you stand there with just-another-boring-mmorpg-like-all-the-others.

[Blue Pig]

Veldern wrote:

Starting out your post with how you're testing for free and you want it your way or you're out doesn't sit well with me. For one, you don't have to be a tester unless you "want" to be a "free" tester. I for one enjoy it. Secondly, we've talked about this a hundred times in the past. Just use search and try and find anything posted by the user Kunra :P

Would you rather I lied? Would that have sat better with you? You know what doesn't sit well with me? And remember, you brought it up. 4/15 then 5/15 then 6/15 and now 8/15 and I guarantee it will be moved back again and they have my money. That really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. That doesn't sit well with me. You know, people get paid for testing an Alpha game. Where's my weekly or monthly check? Why did I give some people $40 to work for them, probably for six months to a year? You enjoy that? Good. After this you can come and work for free for me for a year or so. How does that sit with you?

Also, comprehension is just as important as being able to read. Kindly don't warp what I said and imply I'm trying to change the game. I was asking for information.

You've talked about it a hundred times? Great. Volunteer to organize the forums better because I sure can't find anything except speculation by other people.

I do thank you for the name. I'll look it up.

[Blue Pig]

Boondox wrote:

so what about a game that had open pvp then changed to restricted pvp and became a failure like UO(Ultima Online). when trammel was added in everyone flocked to trammel where it was safe and pvp basicly died out.

If everyone flocked to Trammel, that's a hint and a half that "everyone" didn't want gankfest PvP, no? UO was the first true MMO to come out. It had no competition. It didn't fail because Trammel was put in. If everyone went there, then the population just moved. How would that cause the game to fail or die? You want to know why UO died out? EverQuest : competition from a PvE game. That and the fact that, if you go back and play it now, UO is essentially a crappy game. But even a crappy "first of it's kind" game can be a great initial success.

I must say that EQ (after the first month or two) was the most boring timesink I've ever played. Ever. Brad McQuaid was a clever and sadistic/malicious "so and so." Essentially, he made a game that simulated fun, instead of making a game that actually was fun to play. Bigger and bigger bats. A tired model that other developers still follow. However, I will say that the best feature of EQ was that in a good group you actually could have a lot of fun.

DAoC, "the very restrictive" PvP--RvR game was a huge success. Huge. That's another hint and a half. However, I absolutely hated the Mez spell (and left after the game was hacked). I don't know what genius thought that having a player lose control of his character for any amount of time, much less 10 seconds or so, would be considered fun (the effects of the Mez spell). This mistake was repeated most recently by STO with its idiotic Viral Matrix and Sub Neucleonic Beam abilities, or spells as I call them. SNB could be made to last 40-45 seconds with the right build. Great fun, that was (watching helplessly for 40 or so seconds as you get blow up--in their PvP game--I played Klingon). But then STO was doomed (as a game) as soon as Cryptic acquired the rights to make it from bankrupt Perpetual Studios.

I'll say what I did like about DAoC. Auto face and auto attack. This is why. I don't have the reflexes of a jet fighter pilot. Some people do or come close to it. More generically, some people just do better at PvP because they have faster reflexes (and probably think situationally faster) than others. That will always be the case. Some people will just be significantly better than others at PvP. And there's nothing wrong with games that attract these players. I avoid these games since I'm either not as good as they are, or don't want to devote my time practicing PvP. Mostly the former, though.

I like to play fantasy MMOs like the ones mentioned above. The key word here is fantasy. In real life I don't jump around and maneuever my body as I kill real people with knives and spells. I just shoot them (just kidding, lol, I use a big club with nails). So when I play a fantasy game, I expect the character I pick to have those abilities, not me. In the game that I play, I expect my character to have to ability to follow and face his opponent. That's why I picked a particular character and adjusted his stats. Now I do expect that I should have some proficiency with the mouse and keyboard; I do have to pick attacks, or spells and initially engage another character. I'm not saying that I want my character to fight my fights for me, but I would like to level the playing field and at least have my character be able to face and follow my opponent. That's what DAoC offered. A level playing field. People better at PvP than others would consider that a "restrictive" PvP game, since they ordinarily would be able to disengage and out maneuever the average opponent. And they are free to play other games that have the features they want.

I, for one, am not going to bet money and play pool, or golf, with someone better than I am. That would be silly. I'd expect a handicap if I even decided to play. These same people who are good/great at PvP would be QQing if they had to play against me for money in some game (I have one in mind) where I had a permanent advantage. Where they would never get better. Where I would always win. And I would agree with them. Why should they play against me when I beat them all the time? What fun is that? On top of their losing money.

MMOs are much the same. I play for entertainment. I play because sometimes I win, and sometimes I lose, but I don't play when I always lose. What fun is that?

Now this game will be what it will be. Some people will love it, some people might not be so fond of it. As with other MMOs, one can choose to play it, or skip over it. Lobbying for a game to have overall appeal is one thing. Lobbying for a game to change so that "you" win all the time against the majority of players is just bad form.



EVE-Online. After a massive and still continuing ad campaign they are up to 300,000 subscribers? About that, right? That's actually very good. Will it hold? I think that depends on CCP. I think it won't, but we'll see.

Blizzard/WoW. Brand name appeal with minimal advertising. 5-10 million subscribers? I lost count. About that, right? If you were a developer and business person, which game would you rather have made? And while EVE-Online does have Unrestricted PvP at it's core, that is blunted by safe space. No one ever attacked my Apocalypse in safe space. Suicide.

For the record, I didn't particularly care for WoW as I didn't particularly care for any MMO yet made. Most of them intrigued me at first, but then it was the same old, same old.

That's why we're all here.

[Largion]

So games change and you play for fun.

Blue Pig That was 1 big post saying something you could have said in 2 sentences.

[Blue Pig]

Largion wrote:

So games change and you play for fun.

Blue Pig That was 1 big post saying something you could have said in 2 sentences.

You missed the part where there was thought :P

If you have something against reading you can skip reading my posts. I don't mind.

[Blue Pig]

Cunk wrote:

Wurm also has an advantage in that the map is much harder to navigate than Xsyon. Not only is the map (currently) larger in Wurm but the terrain pretty much governs how players travel. So if you want to isolate yourself from the PVP you can do that fairly by choosing your spot wisely.

Food and eating, along with drinking water will play a large part in Xsyon. As you say, the Xsyon map isn't that big yet. However, since this seems like a game that simulates small bands or tribes, it reminds me that pre agrarian hunter-gatherers followed animal migrations and had to move when water dried up. What if (on a larger map) animals migrated and water dried up? Just a thought.

[Veldern]

Blue Pig wrote:

Would you rather I lied? Would that have sat better with you? You know what doesn't sit well with me? And remember, you brought it up. 4/15 then 5/15 then 6/15 and now 8/15 and I guarantee it will be moved back again and they have my money. That really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. That doesn't sit well with me. You know, people get paid for testing an Alpha game. Where's my weekly or monthly check? Why did I give some people $40 to work for them, probably for six months to a year? You enjoy that? Good. After this you can come and work for free for me for a year or so. How does that sit with you?

Also, comprehension is just as important as being able to read. Kindly don't warp what I said and imply I'm trying to change the game. I was asking for information.

You've talked about it a hundred times? Great. Volunteer to organize the forums better because I sure can't find anything except speculation by other people.

I do thank you for the name. I'll look it up.

It may be pushed back again, it may not. Either way, you don't "HAVE" to test it. If you feel you should get paid for it, then DON'T DO IT. You have the option of this, where as people who get paid have to do it or they don't get paid. If it doesn't sit well with you, you can always ask for a refund, they have given out some already. I don't know why, but you seem to think that you're required to test this game which simply isn't the case. As I said before, if you don't like it don't do it. The terraform is fun for me, so I do it. If you have a job that I enjoy doing in my free time, ya I'll do it for free too.

If you're just asking for information, then there is no reason to post your own views on it while threatening to quit if it's not like that.

Here is some info I found in a couple of minutes, put all the info you can from the admins/mods together if you wish.

http://xsyon.com/forums/28-features/...-decisions#232

http://www.xsyon.com/forums/30-prelu...rld-pvp-option

http://www.xsyon.com/forums/8-off-to...ions-for-jooky (Questions 2-4)

http://www.xsyon.com/faq (Number 11)

[BLinDDeniaL]

Veldern wrote:

Blue Pig wrote:

Would you rather I lied? Would that have sat better with you? You know what doesn't sit well with me? And remember, you brought it up. 4/15 then 5/15 then 6/15 and now 8/15 and I guarantee it will be moved back again and they have my money. That really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. That doesn't sit well with me. You know, people get paid for testing an Alpha game. Where's my weekly or monthly check? Why did I give some people $40 to work for them, probably for six months to a year? You enjoy that? Good. After this you can come and work for free for me for a year or so. How does that sit with you?

Also, comprehension is just as important as being able to read. Kindly don't warp what I said and imply I'm trying to change the game. I was asking for information.

You've talked about it a hundred times? Great. Volunteer to organize the forums better because I sure can't find anything except speculation by other people.

I do thank you for the name. I'll look it up.

It may be pushed back again, it may not. Either way, you don't "HAVE" to test it. If you feel you should get paid for it, then DON'T DO IT. You have the option of this, where as people who get paid have to do it or they don't get paid. If it doesn't sit well with you, you can always ask for a refund, they have given out some already. I don't know why, but you seem to think that you're required to test this game which simply isn't the case. As I said before, if you don't like it don't do it. The terraform is fun for me, so I do it. If you have a job that I enjoy doing in my free time, ya I'll do it for free too.

If you're just asking for information, then there is no reason to post your own views on it while threatening to quit if it's not like that.

Here is some info I found in a couple of minutes, put all the info you can from the admins/mods together if you wish.

http://xsyon.com/forums/28-features/...-decisions#232

http://www.xsyon.com/forums/30-prelu...rld-pvp-option

http://www.xsyon.com/forums/8-off-to...ions-for-jooky (Questions 2-4)

http://www.xsyon.com/faq (Number 11)

I whole Heartidly agree with Veldern...

This post started as an informative discussion about pvp and ideals/thoughts about it, but has now turned into a QQ post...

If you are so upset about the state of the game and fear that it will not cater for your play style or be your gaming holy grail, then why not ask for a refund and go play some other game which will make you happy in the meantime? If you are then still interested in Xsyon, then keep an eye on its developments. That way when it IS released you will know full well what you are getting yourself into.

We don't need another QQ post where someone states Xsyon is bad because of XXXXXXX... The community that is here understands what the devs are going through and is supportive of their decisions as well as looking forward to the finished product.

Therefore to all people who are unhappy at this stage, why not get a refund and leave? No one is forcing you to stay and that would also mean less QQ for us to read...

[Blue Pig]

Veldern wrote:

Blue Pig wrote:

Would you rather I lied? Would that have sat better with you? You know what doesn't sit well with me? And remember, you brought it up. 4/15 then 5/15 then 6/15 and now 8/15 and I guarantee it will be moved back again and they have my money. That really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. That doesn't sit well with me. You know, people get paid for testing an Alpha game. Where's my weekly or monthly check? Why did I give some people $40 to work for them, probably for six months to a year? You enjoy that? Good. After this you can come and work for free for me for a year or so. How does that sit with you?

Also, comprehension is just as important as being able to read. Kindly don't warp what I said and imply I'm trying to change the game. I was asking for information.

You've talked about it a hundred times? Great. Volunteer to organize the forums better because I sure can't find anything except speculation by other people.

I do thank you for the name. I'll look it up.

It may be pushed back again, it may not. Either way, you don't "HAVE" to test it. If you feel you should get paid for it, then DON'T DO IT. You have the option of this, where as people who get paid have to do it or they don't get paid. If it doesn't sit well with you, you can always ask for a refund, they have given out some already. I don't know why, but you seem to think that you're required to test this game which simply isn't the case. As I said before, if you don't like it don't do it. The terraform is fun for me, so I do it. If you have a job that I enjoy doing in my free time, ya I'll do it for free too.

If you're just asking for information, then there is no reason to post your own views on it while threatening to quit if it's not like that.

Here is some info I found in a couple of minutes, put all the info you can from the admins/mods together if you wish.

http://xsyon.com/forums/28-features/...-decisions#232

http://www.xsyon.com/forums/30-prelu...rld-pvp-option

http://www.xsyon.com/forums/8-off-to...ions-for-jooky (Questions 2-4)

http://www.xsyon.com/faq (Number 11)

Hey, hey, hey, as I said, you brought it up, so I gave you a full explanation. Now you're bringing it up again. Who threatened to quit? I said I would do "A" if "B" was the case. I asked for information to see if I would do "A". "A" was leave, not quit, and it wasn't a threat. There was no threat. As I said, you have a reading comprehension problem. I'm content to drop it.

[Veldern]

Blue Pig wrote:

Hey, hey, hey, as I said, you brought it up, so I gave you a full explanation. Now you're bringing it up again. Who threatened to quit? I said I would do "A" if "B" was the case. I asked for information to see if I would do "A". "A" was leave, not quit, and it wasn't a threat. There was no threat. As I said, you have a reading comprehension problem. I'm content to drop it.

No, I didn't bring up what didn't sit well with you. I brought up what didn't sit well with me. Lack of learning comprehension starts with you, buddy. And yes, saying you'll quit the game (or cancel your preorder) if it's not the way you want (AKA saying you'll do "A" if "B" was the case) is threatening to quit the game. I gave you a bunch of information, but from the sounds of things you didn't go through it. Too bad.