Some ideas for combat

[Venciera]

Yeah better to make the right changes now before it blows up, and thousands of people are ready to buy only to find out many features are half finished, very buggy, or totally unsatisfying. I'm of thinking Mortal Online which, for me, was a huge disappointment.

[Kinslayer]

I think Mortal Online was a huge disappointment for 90% of that games community

[Jadzia]

prokop15 wrote:

Jadzia - I know. You aren't debating anything you're simply stating your opinion and replying to everything with "Well it's my opinion, so...". If you simply want to state your opinion on here, don't bother posting after you've done it. We know that the things you post are your opinion and nothing more - despite your attempts to convince us that this opinion is shared by 'RPG' players.

Prokop, it was kiwibird who asked us to repeat our comments, remember ? You even commented on it. And I'm not trying to convince any of you...I know its impossible lol. My comment was addressed to Jordi, since kiwi said he will gather the suggestions and show them to him. After reading them all its up to Jordi to decide.

[Derek]

I'd like to see dodge and block remain manual. Let gear do the passive damage mitigation.

Change dodge to a quick side dash/hop back ability that uses stamina. Hold down sprint key while in combat and left key = side dash, etc...

Change block so that you can hold it but it drains stamina while you do.

For the RPG people, you've got heavier armor/shields which gives a greater chance to get glancing blow, reduce dmg, etc...

[VeryWiiTee]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you Jadzia.

A lot of MMO's were going for the usual RPG style combat with mindless keyboard shortcuts spamming, simply because that was what first came and worked 'flawlessly'.
DF took it further with their FPS style..

This game is very much based on the real world. Would you, in the real world, always aim correctly or not accidently hit friends if you were fighting together.
No, so it ought to be like that in Xsyon.

I'm all for the DarkFall system, without the constant run-turn-run-turn thing they got going -.-..

[mrcalhou]

Jadzia, I doubt Jordi would change the system to be like every other MMO (with the exception of a few). In this entire thread you seem to be the only one that really wants that style of combat.

The biggest thing that drew me to this game was that it had a twitch style system. Otherwise I would be playing Dawntide or WoW.

[Jadzia]

mrcalhou wrote:

Jadzia, I doubt Jordi would change the system to be like every other MMO (with the exception of a few). In this entire thread you seem to be the only one that really wants that style of combat.

The biggest thing that drew me to this game was that it had a twitch style system. Otherwise I would be playing Dawntide or WoW.

There is a misunderstanding here. I've never said I wanted WoW style combat. I said I didn't want FPS style combat, a combat where ingame skills wouldn't count.
In an FPS you jump into the game, grab a gun and shoot. Its all about fast reflexes, spinning around with the mouse like crazy. That can work in a LAN party but not in an MMORPG where one player has 20 ping, the opponent has 200.
When I said I don't want player skills to be involved in combat, I meant the speed...the speed of reflexes and turning. If that player skill is that how you use your brain thats fine.

I'd like a slower, tactical combat where you have to know how and when to use your skills, and those skills do make a significant difference. I've never said anything against manual aiming or manual defense.

VeryWiiTee said he likes the Darkfall system without the running-turning thing, and somewhere I read in a comment that in Darkfall the ingame skills counts a lot...so VeryWiiTee's suggestion sounds good to me. But the current Darkfall method is something I wouldn't like.

The ideal combat for me is something that you can see in historical movies, the sword-dualling, where the opponents don't run away, to manually attack and parry like that would be really fun.

[mrcalhou]

I see where you are coming from now. I'm not sure you can have a real-time combat system where reflexes don't contribute to the outcome of a fight though. Could you give me some examples of games that use a combat system like you just described?

[Kinslayer]

Jadzia wrote:

mrcalhou wrote:

Jadzia, I doubt Jordi would change the system to be like every other MMO (with the exception of a few). In this entire thread you seem to be the only one that really wants that style of combat.

The biggest thing that drew me to this game was that it had a twitch style system. Otherwise I would be playing Dawntide or WoW.

There is a misunderstanding here. I've never said I wanted WoW style combat. I said I didn't want FPS style combat, a combat where ingame skills wouldn't count.
In an FPS you jump into the game, grab a gun and shoot. Its all about fast reflexes, spinning around with the mouse like crazy. That can work in a LAN party but not in an MMORPG where one player has 20 ping, the opponent has 200.
When I said I don't want player skills to be involved in combat, I meant the speed...the speed of reflexes and turning. If that player skill is that how you use your brain thats fine.

I'd like a slower, tactical combat where you have to know how and when to use your skills, and those skills do make a significant difference. I've never said anything against manual aiming or manual defense.

VeryWiiTee said he likes the Darkfall system without the running-turning thing, and somewhere I read in a comment that in Darkfall the ingame skills counts a lot...so VeryWiiTee's suggestion sounds good to me. But the current Darkfall method is something I wouldn't like.

The ideal combat for me is something that you can see in historical movies, the sword-dualling, where the opponents don't run away, to manually attack and parry like that would be really fun.

Jadzia, I think you are generally mistaking your terms, and using them incorrectly, which is leading people, including myself, to think you want something completely different to what you actually are trying to explain.

Let me ask, what do you think of what is currently in game? If the current system, slowed down a little, with nicer animations is something you would like, then you are pretty much after the same or similar to the rest of us.

A twitch based system is basically a FPS system. Dont get FPS mixed up with games that you jump in game and start blasting things, like you describe. That would be a FPS game, but we are talking about FPS style combat. This system, when placed into an MMO, will still have skills as a major factor in the fight. You will have to use your brain, because you are driving your character, so you will have to decide when to swing, when to block, and when to move in this direction or that. It is a combination of all those things, and yes, some player reflex will come into it also, but thats only a very small part of the entire system.

Ping can be overcome by different mechanics, one of which could be the holding the mouse button to charge your swing. This mechanic delays each attack. Also, by putting the damage of the swing at the end of the swing, it also gives the opponent time to react.

I think just try to leave the terms out of the suggestions, cos I think some are getting confused with the use of FPS and RPG in different contexts, etc.

[Jadzia]

@Kinslayer:
You are probably right about me mixing up terms. When I said FPS style combat I meant the one I saw in FPS games...where its all based on player's speed. If you say its not the one you want then I'm happy, lol. The combat you described is exactly the one I want.

And yes, the current ingame system in Xsyon but slower and more fluid animation is something I'd like.

@mrcalhou:
No, unfortunately I haven't seen a combat like that, I don't even know if its possible...but the mechanics Kinslayer wrote about to minimize the effect of ping rate and slower player reflexes sounded good to me.