Some ideas for combat

[JCatano]

mrcalhou wrote:

I'm honestly not a fan of Darkfall's combat. Players and mobs can change directions way too fast.

Momentum would be a nice addition to DF.

[Vandali]

I think DF combat works really well for the game, it is fast paced in all aspects so kinda stays true to the style of the game, personally its the best pvp experience i've ever had in an mmo game, but i dont know if it could work in Xyson...?

I saw one of the devs said he was downloading to try df combat, trying df combat from a newbie point of view would make it seems underpar, but watching two vets go toe to toe is an amazing sight for most people, if a dev wants to see it from a vet point of view then we could accomodate you on the EU server just so you could see the advanced combat in DF if you wanted, just have to holla.

*Zyria whooped Rob by the way Trung in a duel(Zyria is a girl beating a boy, giggaty! lol)

[mrcalhou]

All things considered Darkfall's combat is really good, but the lack of momentum of some sort kills it for me because I keep trying to predict where something should be and it rarely gets there. I avg about 75ms ping, but it's almost as if the mobs and players teleport sideways and backwards a couple feet when they change directions. It's not too terrible to me for melee range, but I can hardly hit things with mana missle. :/

[mrcalhou]

Well considering that I'm playing it on a trial account, I wouldn't expect that I was very good, but compared to other games, the movement physics are wonky.

[Derek]

Virtus,
I applaude the efforts in the latest combat revisions, but I still think it needs some work. Do you think we could get a response (directly or indirectly) from Jooky as to whether or not it would be technically feasible to change hit detection based on weapon swing arc?

[Virtus]

Derek wrote:

Virtus,
I applaude the efforts in the latest combat revisions, but I still think it needs some work. Do you think we could get a response (directly or indirectly) from Jooky as to whether or not it would be technically feasible to change hit detection based on weapon swing arc?

Some emails from him after I tested M&B:

Ok, what’s not clear to me is whether this combat system actually targets body parts, or relies just on the overall ‘hitbox’. It sound like it’s hitbox only which makes things much easier in some respect, but it also makes all these swings maybe look like combat is better, but it not actually matter if you are targeting an arm or leg or body etc.

If it’s based on actual physical contact of meshes… (like exactly where the sword hits the opponent) that’s something else and ain’t gonna happen any time soon in Xsyon.

What does it seem to be? Just hit versus hit box?

Also, in Xsyon we DO have incidental damage (so anything in swing range gets hit, just for less damage) and you don’t need to select any target (just have the cursor for a specific hit).

If it’s just a hit box check, then no, it’s super simple, much simpler than what we have.

If it’s a physical mesh check between your weapon and what it actually hits, that’s more complex, but looking at those videos, I doubt that’s what they are doing. Or does it seem like the weapon actually hits only if it hits the other character’s mesh?

Don't quote me on this but I thought I remember him saying that if it is hit boxes then something could be done with it and make it a bit more complex....but I don't seem to be able to find that comment so idk

[tredo]

From the videos, and actually being in the game, my only recommendation would be slow down Xsyon's combat... slow down the swings. Make it more realistic, larger weapons are slower, and could do more damage, where smaller blades are faster and do less damage. Not sure if there are weapons speeds in Xsyon or not. I would guess each weapon has its own speed, damage, quality and durability. This would make me think that at some point soon we are going to have to have a repair skill. Metal weapons are in game, mostly from a makeshift weapon, a saw blade fastened to a stick, tied up with a leather strap to make a saw blade axe. These kinds of weapons are fine, however, are they disposable?

[Derek]

Virtus,
Sounds good. Thanks to you and Jooky for the quick response. So it sounds like you guys have the swing arcs covered. I dont' think Mount & Blade uses mesh collision for hit detection. I do know they have head shots for archery which causes about x2 damage of body shots.

This leads me to believe that the root of the problem with combat as it stands is the smoothness of animations or illusion of momentum.

Like Tredo suggests, slow down swings for larger weapons and maybe a bit faster for smaller weapons. If you study the movement animations in the Mount & Blade videos, the combat just seems to flow better. It is important not to downplay the importance of this. If the combat doesn't "feel" right, it will put many people off.

The combat animation should give the player a feeling of momentum even if this is artificially created and not calculated with a real physics engine.

We may need a separate thread for dodging/parrying. Savage2 from S2 games has a very nice blocking system implemented. It might be worth taking a look there as well.

I do appreciate the effort you guys have put in so far with the game development overall and with the constant communication This is my constructive criticism of the combat system, and only that, so I hope the animators don't take offense. Thanks for listening.

[REVKhA]

We have only played melee combat wich is really bad right now. There is no blood or gore, there is really no structure in the gameplay quality of melee combat, no system for aiming or holding the swing.

This current system would be ok for ranged combat, but it's non existant and that's just very sad to me. I hate melee because you need to spec that way (high resistance, high str and dex/fort)

This current combat system needs a huge overhaul and then maybe people will stay subscribed. There is no way i'm paying for the current combat system. Worst aspect of the game is the combat right now closely followed by the poor UI and huge lack of content.

[Derek]

REVKha,
It's important to be specific about your dislikes. One helpful remark from your post - ability to hold the melee swing before releasing. This is a great suggestion and would add to timing and strategy.

As far as content goes: it is a sandbox game tools are slowly being developed to give players the ability to create their own content. I understand that there aren't many of these tools in-game atm, but they will come with time.

Persistent feedback from the community will go a long way with this dev team. They have shown that they will listen and react to community concerns/suggestions so it is important to stay positive when posting in this section.

Maybe suggest a feature/tool implemented that you would like to see which would help players create more content.