Death

[Jadzia]

Chade wrote:

ty kindly for reply jadiza, there is still a lot for me to read out here

Anytime

@Kinslayer:
I posted that link because OP had questions not only about respawn, but about wars between tribes and looting. Seems he found the thread informative.

About sandbox..I've never seen any official definition of sandbox game. If you read mmo forums you will see that people don't agree on what that means. The sandbox definition for me is a game without fixed classes, where I can train all of the skills and whatever skills or stats I've chosen at the character creation I can change them later. A game with an open persistent world, player housing, player driven economy. Rules can be set, and they are needed to avoid mess and griefing.

I'd like if good and neutral players had the option to choose if they want to respawn at the spot they died or at home...if you die in the green mist its a headache to get out of it lol.

[Kinslayer]

The definition of a sandbox game is quite simple. A sandbox game is a game where the player is free to do what they choose to do, not being limited by the game. When the game sets definitions of what has to be done, it is no longer a sandbox.

Of course, a sandbox isnt a sandbox without sand. So if you take a game like Mortal Online for example, by technical means, it is a sandbox, theres just nothing to do, so it hasnt got any sand in it. A game like Darkfall isnt a sandbox because the player doesnt have the freedom to choose in a lot of circumstances, like building a city, crafting, that type of thing.

I agree, most people disagree when it comes to sandbox, as to its meaning, but it becomes blurry because people stretch the meaning of it. The best way to think of sandbox games is, yep, you guessed it, an actual sandbox. You create it, you choose where to put it, how big to make it. If you make it, your friend can decide to knock it over. There's no mysterious force that makes you do anything in a certain way.

The rules need to be kept basic and unobtrusive in gameplay. Once game mechanics start limiting what we are able to do, and taking our freedom of choice away, its no longer a sandbox. If you look at Roma Victor, which is the most sandbox game Ive played in the past 7yrs, it placed unreal restrictions on the players, making it so a Roman couldnt attack another Roman is a great example. We all know Romans fought each other as much as they did their enemy, and to remove the ability of that was a major restriction in gameplay, which true sandbox games shouldnt have.

In the terms of this thread, a player with good alignment should have the choice to put a bounty on another good player if he chooses to do so. Of course there is no bounty system, so Im not sure why we are having this conversation really, but the freedom in a game mechanic like that needs to remain.

Of course its always up to the devs, but I would like to see the choice always there, put the ability to do anything in the hands of the player, but also the ability to clean it up if it becomes a mess.

[Kinslayer]

nvm

[KeithStone]

Kinslayer wrote:

Personally I feel that all characters should be bound to their tribe totem, this allows tribes that are being attacked to have an advantage, and it stops the attacker from merely re-spawning continuously and continuing the attack. If a tribes totem is under siege, perhaps they cant spawn there, and they need to spawn at the starter spawn spot.

Just remember that it wont just be good vs evil, so spawning needs to be looked at.

let's not turn this into darkfall- no bindspots please!

Also, if the attacker dies, he can't just keep attacking after he respawns- he won't have enough hp/energy to keep it up.

[Jadzia]

Kinslayer wrote:

In the terms of this thread, a player with good alignment should have the choice to put a bounty on another good player if he chooses to do so. Of course there is no bounty system, so Im not sure why we are having this conversation really, but the freedom in a game mechanic like that needs to remain.

Of course its always up to the devs, but I would like to see the choice always there, put the ability to do anything in the hands of the player, but also the ability to clean it up if it becomes a mess.

There is a planned bounty system, I don't know if it will be implemented by the launch or only later:

Xsyon wrote:

Players from an evil tribe are free to loot and pillage and will gain reputation within their own tribe for doing so, but they will also be vulnerable to attacks from all players who will be able to attack evil players without negative consequences. Players in good or neutral tribes will be allowed to put bounty quests on known evil players. In essence, if a tribe chooses to be evil they become the ‘monsters’ of the world.

This is from the thread I posted here earlier.

[Shrimps]

I could see the ghost system being used to greif but an easy way around that would be to make it so you respawn with 1 hp, your weapons unequipped and possibly have an animation that takes around 2 seconds where you are vulnerable.

That way in big fights the enemies could just respawn continually but they'd be cut down quickly and not be able to just respawn zerg thei way to victory. But if you were being greifed the system in place provides plenty of time to get away from greifers.

[Kinslayer]

keep in mind also, that most things will result in unconsciousness rather than death, so hopefully death wont be a constant issue. I dont know how many tribes are here, let alone how many evil tribes, but from what Ive seen lately, there's very few tribes active and even less actually interested in playing the game, or so it seems. So if death is only ever a result of good vs evil fights/wars, then warring tribes wont always have to put up with respawn issues.

But this brings up another point. What will be the penalty of being knocked unconscious? Will you regain consciousness with minimal health, if so it would be the same as death? Surely death should have a harsher penalty.

TBH though, I am yet to see a death system I like in a game. Someone needs to come up with an original idea that really does a game death system well. Im fucked if I know what that might be though.

[mrcalhou]

I like Eve's death system. When you blow up you have to buy your ship and your fittings again. If someone destroys the pod you are in also (you play a person inside of a pod that is inside of a ship), then you have to get a new clone to resurrect into and possibly lose any implants you have on your character.

So while this system wouldn't fit thematically with the way the game is, I like the mechanics behind it because it doesn't make dying trivial. What I would do, for a death mechanic, in a game like this, is make it so that when you die some of your equipment takes a huge hit to durability. It gives a nice risk vs. reward thing in my opinion and would help promote any sort of economy (provided resources are area dependent).

[Kinslayer]

That is a good idea mrcalhou, in regards to equipment taking a huge durability loss. I was going to suggest that the person that died/incapacitated lose their equipped items, but that kind of loot system isnt in this game, so items cant be "dropped" upon death/incapacitation.

Ultimately, you need to render the char unable to attack again if they are respawning where they are. I dont think giving them low HP's is enough, because if this is like any other game, when magic comes in, they can be healed, or there will end up being some way the character can be healed. So instead, render their weapons and/or armour useless.

[zeph]

Death in every game seems to be a huge issue within a games balance system...

Personally Im a fond believer of perma death... However, I have yet seen a game that actually balanced out perma death within scope of actual skill grind...

If Developers can balance out in any game skill grind, so as not to hinder any kind of labor intensive, repetitious, tedious skill grind... I would like to see a really... really... really... good perma death system implemented...

This would resolve any issue within any game... If you do something wrong or make bad choices no matter of any thoughts, and reasoning in scope by any player there should be consequences of perma death, and restart...

Death in real life tends to make people stop, and think before they make actions, but not always... Ignorance is bliss when it comes to ones own choices, and actions in real life... Should not the same rule set apply within any type of sand boxed style game? (Just food for thought)