PVP rules

[Venciera]

I would prefer to use the faith/religious system to punish players that grief. In this way the more you grief the lower your faith and therefor the less luck they have in finding things, crafting items, and less benefits from food and water, etc. More importantly the longer it would take to respawn after death. Also players shouldn't be able to see each other when they die.

If players want to restore their faith they will have to return to their tribe to do so.

[JCatano]

Shrimp -

We are talking about permanent stat loss. It can't be so detrimental that coding evil status into the game is a waste, though.

And... People are going to be PK'd a lot, anyway. Want to PK a lot without losing alignment? Declare war.

If Xsyon makes it to where we can only war-dec a certain amount of clans or something like that... Big fail (and exploitable depending on how some mechanics work). There should certainly be an upkeep cost to war, though.

[Luculus]

Lots of ideas.

I have to point out to Revkha that what he's asking for is along the lines of an FPS, WAR or WoW. 10 min debuff and back to mindless ganking. It is just THE worst death mechanic I think I've ever played under.

I think that whatever system is chosen it needs to stick to a couple of fundamental principles:

1. It hurts to die. That is, it 'costs' a lot. This IME makes for better players and more realistic societies. Personally, after playing Darkfall, I'd go with full loot on death and respawn at totem unless revived by a teammate (slow-ish non-combat revive).

2. There are consequences for being evil. If you decide to act how you please, you will have to pay consequences. IRL that means prison, fines, social exclusion etc - pretty hard to code and enforce in a game. Something has to hit evil players harder. The reason being that previous games have proven that if there is no penalty for 'evil' behaviour, everyone becomes evil and the game's society goes to crap. There will be no advantage to being neutral/good apart from not having the disadvantage of the evil penalties. As stat loss has been mentioned, I'd be happy to try this with the option to regain them through effort.

So, summary of my thoughts:

[ul]Death = full loot and totem respawn on all death. Allies can revive but it's too slow for a full combat situation.

Red players = some 'permanent' stat loss which can be regrinded afterwards[/ul]

I'd much prefer social sanctions against red tribes/players but I'm not sure exactly how they'd work.

[REVKhA]

It should not matter who is evil, neutral or good, it should only matter when you are at war...

Pking people you are not at war with, no matter what alignment, SHOULD BE PERM STAT LOSS.

@ War ..... should be temporary stat loss, regain over time ( 5-10-15 min )

In Neocron you would lose soulight when you'd pk someone green to you (allied) , and at -37 soulight you would lose your Lock on slot 1 and people had rare weapons so they didn't gank allies.

I have played Twitch pvp mmo's since 2001 , i know what i am talking about. I'm not talking about wow here, i'm talking about TWITCH PVP , Neocron and WW2online.

Ganking should be penalized (huge stat loss). You should only be able to Pk people you are at war with (REDS) no matter what aligment you are, Being Evil should only be harder because they have no locked slots so you can loot anything from them. Neutrals 1 locked slot and Good have 2 locked slots. This kind of rule reflects a lot of the things people are scared about pvp , they dont want to lose their favorite stuff, so if you are scared of pvp just join a good aligment and you will never drop things you equip in those 2 locked slots.

Do not penalize Evil players because they have balls... that respawn idea is just awfull it's enough for me to lose interest and i want to play neutral. There is no way people should respawn on death site.

JCatano is right, we need a proper system for war dec and we need to prevent exploits.

Mixing religion with pvp is also a huge fail. Keep it simple please. Less rules is better and make them clear. Balance is the key. I think it should be all the same, you respawn at your totem on death.

[aliksteel]

Ummm, OK I'm just going to say this fast,Like taking a band-aid off. Deep breath* REV has it right.


REVKhA wrote:

It should not matter who is evil, neutral or good, it should only matter when you are at war...

Pking people you are not at war with, no matter what alignment, SHOULD BE PERM STAT LOSS.

@ War ..... should be temporary stat loss, regain over time ( 5-10-15 min )

In Neocron you would lose soulight when you'd pk someone green to you (allied) , and at -37 soulight you would lose your Lock on slot 1 and people had rare weapons so they didn't gank allies.

I have played Twitch pvp mmo's since 2001 , i know what i am talking about. I'm not talking about wow here, i'm talking about TWITCH PVP , Neocron and WW2online.

Ganking should be penalized (huge stat loss). You should only be able to Pk people you are at war with (REDS) no matter what aligment you are, Being Evil should only be harder because they have no locked slots so you can loot anything from them. Neutrals 1 locked slot and Good have 2 locked slots. This kind of rule reflects a lot of the things people are scared about pvp , they dont want to lose their favorite stuff, so if you are scared of pvp just join a good aligment and you will never drop things you equip in those 2 locked slots.

Do not penalize Evil players because they have balls... that respawn idea is just awfull it's enough for me to lose interest and i want to play neutral. There is no way people should respawn on death site.

JCatano is right, we need a proper system for war dec and we need to prevent exploits.

Mixing religion with pvp is also a huge fail. Keep it simple please. Less rules is better and make them clear. Balance is the key. I think it should be all the same, you respawn at your totem on death.

[Xsyon]

Just to make things clear:

Everyone mentioning Permanent Stat Loss, means stat loss that's not regained automatically and is regained through actions, leveling etc. Right?

I don't think anyone wants stats permanently lost that will never be regained. I'm definitely not going to add that. Stat loss will be able to be recuperated.

[aliksteel]

Xsyon wrote:

Everyone mentioning Permanent Stat Loss, means stat loss that's not regained automatically and is regained through actions, leveling etc. Right?

Yes

[REVKhA]

Xsyon wrote:

Just to make things clear:

Everyone mentioning Permanent Stat Loss, means stat loss that's not regained automatically and is regained through actions, leveling etc. Right?

I don't think anyone wants stats permanently lost that will never be regained. I'm definitely not going to add that. Stat loss will be able to be recuperated.

I think perm stat loss is ok when killing someone you are not at war with. Should be small if he is another alignment but huge if you kill someone from your own alignment with no war declared between them. This will prevent useless killing and people will think twice.

It makes sense to penalize someone for killing someone his own alignment without being at war against him. Even Perm stat loss. This way people will use diplomacy more and role playing will be enhanced.

@ War = temporary

No war + same alignment = permanent

No war + other alignment = very small permanent to avoid abuse

[Xsyon]

There's been a bit of arguing here, but it really sounds like you're all on the same page to me.

The system will be revised after I patch out the tribe rank system and I think JCatano outlined it best. I'm convinced, there will be no respawn at your body. There will definitely be no forced 'ghost runs', but I'll let you stand and suffer a ghost for a minute while you watch your enemies loot you. :P

I like Jadzia's idea about being able to bind at ally tribes. I think solo players should be able to bind at friendly tribes. I'll consider the bind slots for a few items. I just need to think about how to implement and display that properly.

I agree with keeping it simple.

Thanks to everyone for all the input. This is exactly what I'm looking for with Xsyon, making the game you all want to play without compromising the game that I want to play.

[Jadzia]

Xsyon wrote:

Just to make things clear:

Everyone mentioning Permanent Stat Loss, means stat loss that's not regained automatically and is regained through actions, leveling etc. Right?

Yes.